New U.S. Antitrust Bill Would Require Apple and Google to Allow Third-Party App Stores and Sideloading

[FriendlyMackle]

Really, really curious what Marsha Blackburn is getting out of this. She's never met a private company she didn't think should be allowed to take over the world. Except Google and Apple, apparently.

I'd understand if this was aimed at Twitter or Facebook ("anti-conservative bias," cried the children) but it's unclear to me what she gets out of trying to regulate Apple.

This is the same woman who introduced a bill to make illegal mask mandates on public transportation, as well as the Stop COVID Act of 2021, which does not mean what you think it does (instead meaning "Stop China-Originated Viral Infectious Diseases Act of 2021"). She has also tried repeatedly to outlaw municipal broadband and net neutrality.

And—Marsha Blackburn is the same woman who sponsored laws to restrict broadband competition! Disallowing municipalities from creating publicly funded broadband networks/access in areas where cable/telco offered only minimal (like 3mbps) and overpriced services!

I do think that some of this animus on her part against Apple is that they rejected racist/white-nationalist Apps (they like to present a facade of ’respectability’ and call themselves conservative or ‘alt-right,’ another euphemism created specifically in order to bring mainstream folks into their way of thinking and hating) and spreaders of false narratives as well as encouragement of violence.

With this new legislation, Apple would lose control over all apps and their data-privacy rules would also be useless. As some others have said, this is perfect for more mass manipulation similar to what we saw with Cambridge Analytica and Facebook.

Get ready for Russian levels of misinformatio, data-mining and psyops directed against Western democratic citizens.

As for Blumenthal, does he even know what an ’app’ is? Klobuchar, no comment. She hasn’t impressed me previously, and she certainly doesn’t now. Both Blumenthal and Klobuchar are tools if they don’t see a forecast of the chaos they’re going to unlock.

 

[Scoob Redux]

Imagine the scenario where you build a shopping mall. For a monthly rent plus a percentage of your profits you can sell your product in your own section of this mall. You as the developer/property owner spend decades and billions of dollars developing the property. Your mall and how you've kept it up brought in a high number of high end retailers. Affluent shoppers like to shop and eat there.

After 10-15 years as a store owner you decide that the contract you signed sucks because you don't like its terms. Can you stop paying rent? If the terms were unreasonable 10-15 years ago, why did you not choose to set up a store there.

There are bargain malls throughout the area but you want the best of both worlds. You want access to the marketplace the property developer built but want to pay nothing for the privelge.

That analogy doesn't fit. In reality, this is analogous to allowing anyone to open another mall next door (or down the street). You can still operate your mall and charge your high rents to anyone who wants to pay. What will happen is just like what happened in the real world...the legacy mall will lose customers.

 

[960design]

Coming next week from the government of stupidity:
Discovery card or O3 Capital Nigeria Limited required by all merchants, because I do not want to use Mastercard ( aka feel oppressed by Mastercard fees ).

Apple and Google should destroy the uniformed ( many I see posting here ) in court.

 

[FriendlyMackle]

The ignorance of some politicians never ceases to amaze. Their time would be better spent passing laws which help stop the planet from going up in flames, but no, let's focus on side loading apps.

It’s much easier to pretend that they care than it is to accomplish ANYTHING to alleviate our climate future. Besides, they would need to assail their biggest donors and patrons — the petrochemical industrialists! And this is so much more ‘timely’ as these two companies are already in the public eye. But, sure, no rush to change anything that affects the future of the human species.

 

[macfacts]

Will the government next force Walmart to allow Target to advertise their own products and install their own cash registers in Walmart stores?

Except any alt app store won't be running on Apple's server

 

[huge_apple_fangirl]

If Apple wants to stop this all they have to do is lower the cut they take from IAP and get rid of anti-steering provisions. That would solve 99% of the "anti-competitive" complaints. Apple is hugely profitable. They don't need that money, and if they give it up, they will likely be allowed to maintain the rest of their control over iOS. Unfortunately, Apple's greed puts their entire iOS enterprise at risk of being radically changed against their will. If this bill and similar ones in the EU pass, Apple will have only themselves to blame. Although, with some of the other **** coming out of Cupertino lately (spyware), there are some serious questions to be raised about Apple's decision making abilities of late.

 

[vipergts2207]

New flash: No company is obligated to sell you something that is 100% exactly what you want. Life is full of compromises. “This is a package deal, take it or leave it” is a perfectly reasonable and viable business model.

I don’t even disagree with this, but it’s somewhat tangential to the actual point of the legislation. This legislation isn’t simply about giving consumers what they want. It’s to make sure giant tech companies aren’t operating unfairly in a massive market worth billions of dollars.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I think the dirty little secret is that the scammy/spammy games market is very tasty revenue for Apple.

To them, the juice is worth this squeeze --- to the point of going to the wall to resist change

 

[vipergts2207]

Me also. But that seems more like a contract dispute. But we shall see.

Calling it a contract dispute is a bit of an understatement considering the ramifications the decision could have.

 

[Morgenland]

Success is fragmented. Bad motivation for the pioneers.

 

[cardfan]

Yep. Long time coming. Great news for most.

 

[Sciomar]

Success is fragmented. Bad motivation for the pioneers.

You'll own nothing and you'll be happy.

 

[jimbobb24]

Because in a level playing field, the upside and offering Apple has with the macOS App Store is simply not compelling.

i.e. When Apples store has to compete on the merits - it loses.

The comparison between the Google store profits and the App Store profits demonstrate you are wrong. Phones are not tiny computers. People who want that garbage should get an android phone.

 

[vipergts2207]

Congress has the right to make laws and has the right to regulate interstate commerce, but there is a lot of this that could very easily be considered unconstitutional. There are compelled speech aspects, inequality under the law challenges, and exceeding authority provisions. Over the last 30 years SCOTUS has reigned in significantly the ability for Congress to use the commerce clause to create a federal jurisdiction for anything and everything it wants to regulate. Remedies will have to have clear an decisive benefits and objective that offset the harm and cost burden and not “Wouldn’t it just be peachy if,….” altruistic pipe dreams. And that was with courts far less conservative than the one we now.

Also it is by no coincidence that Apple is significantly expanding business operations is red states. I expect this bill dies in the back corner of a committee room somewhere before it ever comes to vote.

I wouldn’t be so sure about that. When is the last time you saw Blumenthal and Blackburn agree on something? Let alone agree enough to jointly sponsor it. Both sides of the aisle have bones to pick with tech, the left regarding anti-trust and marketplace fairness and the right regarding stifling of speech. Much like infrastructure, this is one of the few areas I see as being ripe for bipartisan action.

 

[Michael Scrip]

I think the dirty little secret is that the scammy/spammy games market is very tasty revenue for Apple.

To them, the juice is worth this squeeze --- to the point of going to the wall to resist change

True... but spammy/scammy games revenue would be tasty for any store.

Imagine if I opened "Michael's App Store" and all the games on it were those horrible weekly-subscription games. I'd make a fortune.

People get tricked by a silly ad on Facebook... they're redirected to my app store... they give me their credit card number... and I've got 'em. Boom.

And best of all... who's gonna stop me? I don't have Nanny Apple on my back. I couldn't do this on Apple's App Store.

But this is MY store. I'm the Captain now.

 

[djlythium]

I am willing to draw a distinction between iOS and iPadOS. For me, I don't have nearly as strong an opinion in favor of sideloading on my phone as opposed to a tablet. I don't oppose the idea of adding the aforementioned checkbox to iOS, but I would be far less likely to turn it on on my phone than I would on iPadOS or MacOS.

I totally appreciate that!

follow-up: Why would you be far less likely? What makes iOS so different than macOS?

 

[vipergts2207]

That's the crux of it all. Apple poured all the time, effort, and resources into designing and building a solid device. They then offered a gateway onto their device and made it one of the most successful platforms globally. Now the children who couldn't create their own successful platforms want to cry and scream until they can steal their way into this one, because reasons. The ones screaming about wanting the device more open to anything are also the ones crying over the CSAM issue, your ability to perform such mental gymnastics is impressive.

Allowing any government so much power to make laws like this is going to lead to some rude awakenings in the very near future.

Are you under the strange impression that governments don’t already regulate businesses, marketplaces, and the economy at large? You don’t think a marketplace involving tens of billions of dollars deserves scrutiny? The app store’s revenue is in the same league as AT&T’s when they were broken up.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

Could I, as an hypothetical app developer, have freedom of choice for how my app gets distributed too? I.e “I want my yet another calculator app to not be sideload-able, only via the AppStore it can be installed and nothing else”.
Or “family sharing, xKit A and CloudKit B only supported if using the AppStore version”?
Curious how much arm bending is going to be happening with these bills.

And you will find a hypothetical App Store who’s going to to host your app for free?
And that hypothetical App Store that’s just a startup is going to have enough infrastructure for worldwide exposure in many languages and also market your app for free?
Keep dreaming…

 

[Amazing Iceman]

98% of the apps made by "developers" are trash. I'll pass at making "developers" the arbiters of what is good for the consumer.

If Developers don’t make money… do you think they will care about the consumers?
They‘d rather do something else, than starve to please ‘consumers’ who expect everything for free.

 

[Seoras]

Speaking as a developer who's published on the App Store, Play and Amazon Kindle - 2 is plenty.
I dropped the Amazon store just because it was too much extra work for not enough gain.
It's a P.I.T.A having to release an app through any app store, updating the metas, reading the rules, setting up payments, etc, etc, etc.
Then on top of that there's the piracy that will totally destroy the revenue we are enjoying from the App Store at the moment. (notice how I only said "App Store" and not "App Store & Play". )
This legislation better apply to all software platforms, be they games console, cars or whatever has a store where you can add software to run on it.
Otherwise this is nothing other than a government push to crack open iOS.
Way to go, just what the voters needed - less security and privacy!

 

[Amazing Iceman]

Right, because no one sells/buys software for the Mac or Windows...

Most of the things people pay for anymore are services anyways... you can pirate that software all you want, they would probably appreciate you helping them distribute it!

Probably the reason why the big money is in iOS/iPadOS App Development, and not so much on macOS and Windows.

 

[falkon-engine]

This is just government stepping in way too far. They have no business forcing Apple to make a product this way. Competition exists with Android. This is what the free market is for. If developers are so frustrated with Apple, then only have Android Apps. Apple will either change or let the iPhone die. Developers trying to strongarm government to make a law like this is like a child crying to their mom about something.

I’m so sick of the there’s Android arguments. I don’t want to use Android, I paid good money for my iPhone and if there’s a developer out there selling a legal app (outside of the App Store) that I am willing to give legal money to, who is Apple to restrict that trade? Apple may claim its policies are for security and privacy, but since Apple is the sole App Store operator and the sole in-app purchase fee collector, its policies are inextricably tied to profits as well when you peel back the layers.

More players in the App Store operator and in-app purchase administrator markets may mean less profit for Apple. And they’re afraid. Apple is using its dominant position to erect barriers to entry to these markets. And the government seems to be saying that these barriers are artificial and illegal. It’s time for users to have choice.

 

[nsayer]

I totally appreciate that!

follow-up: Why would you be far less likely? What makes iOS so different than macOS?

Because it runs on my phone. It has cellular connectivity, GPS, it's always with me. It's a fine line, I admit, but it is one.

 

[LV426]

Not sure this has been thought through too well.

At this time you can walk into any Apple Store and they will check out your phone if you’ve got problems. Because they have (allegedly) vetted the software your phone can run to ensure compatibility. If a user can install a dodgy app that nobbles the phone, Apple could not practically offer support under those circumstance. If compelled to do so, I imagine Apple would be well within their rights to insist that using third party software installation would invalidate the phone’s warranty. Presently, they warrant that your phone will work if you install App Store software. No such warranty can be made in allowing arbitrary software installation.

If this law is passed and you take advantage of it you can look forward to the end of Apple Support for your device.

 

[turbineseaplane]

The comparison between the Google store profits and the App Store profits demonstrate you are wrong. Phones are not tiny computers. People who want that garbage should get an android phone.

I said absolutely nothing about "Google store profits"
Did you quote the wrong person?