Newest Longhorn *SURPRISE* Copies OSX!

[ziwi]

How can they keep getting away with this? Just because they won before...F!

 

[Fukui]

I would not be suprised to see the same some where in the MS. but it pretty well buried under a lot of other crap (like the apple on it in the 30 pages of crap no one going to read) Apple being pretty vage on when they are doing it.

Yes, you can find it, though anything like that would either be licenced (paid for like say spyglass) or BSD (free); you wont find anything GNU on Windows, at least acknoledged.

On OS X its not very hidden at all. Just type acknowledgments in the finder search thingy or go to library/documentation and its there.

It never seems right when apple users cry fail when ever MS remotingly copies them and yet when apple blantly copies, steals they praise them or they defind apple and say they came up with it.

I'm sure they don't "Acknoledge" taking a security window from unix cause, um, its already there. The real point is though, Apple has given as much as they take from both BSD and Mach (both of wich don't require anything given back), GCC, Apache, etc etc. So, I think since they actually contribute to the production of "Unix" whatever that exactly is, I think the deserve to use that stuff without having to say "we copied it from unix."

Don't forget when SJ said "Windows got there first, but think we can do it better." While some apple "users" may be fan boys, I challenge you to go to a windows forum (PC world?) and say MS copied something from apple or whatever, you'll get the same response, just reversed. I'm not saying just cause they do it, its O.K, just its not worth getting tooo upset about. Every group has thier total fans, but they're just a loud minority...

I would like to say though, that those that know a little history, MS just copies/imitates-whatever whoever is in the lead (which is why they are both successful and despised), it doesn't mean just apple, and maybe, just maybe apple learned the lesson that sometimes its at least better to match features (F.U.S in Panther) than let the competition get ahead. I think if you look back at apple, they were never that good at it until SJ came back...

If your in the business of business, you gotta be practical, and talking an idea/process (as long as its not copywrited/patented) and "adapting" is the way of land...

When I said "yes" to the post before, its only because apple patented and copywrited a lot of thier work, but BG was smart enought to extort it out of apple back then...

 

[stcanard]

It never seems right when apple users cry fail when ever MS remotingly copies them and yet when apple blantly copies, steals they praise them or they defind apple and say they came up with it.

Actually it's very simple.

Apple recently has done a lot of work building up goodwill in the various internet/programmer/open source communities. That gets paid back by people viewing their actions in a favourable light.

Microsoft on the other hand appears bent on making itself the most hated company on the internet. That gets paid back by people viewing their actions in a negative light.

Given enough work it is possible to change your image. Look at IBM, in 20 years they've gone from one of the most hated to a reasonably well liked company (again, in internet circles).

As an example, both Apple and Microsoft use BSD licenced code in their OS. The BSD licence does not require you to contribute changes back to the community.

Microsoft has never publicly acknowledged the use of this code, and never contributed anything back (as is their right, it's perfectly legal).

Apple has made a huge effort to contribute significant portions back to the community, and hosts servers and mailing lists to help with the development.

Now if you were one of the ones writing the BSD licenced code that was being used, which company would you like more?

 

[XIII]

The Salazar's were terrorists in Season 3 of 24.

Coincidence? I think not.

I wonder what was originally under that "Enter an administrator password..." line.

Heh heh heh..

Good point..

 

[Mechcozmo]

It was something Unix has had built in it since before apple and OSX. Of course there is a crap load of stuff apple takes and then claim as their own and then have them coming up with the idea.

I going to make a safe assumtion and going to take it very few of you really read the articacal at all. So you clear dont know all the stuff that was added.

Well, OS X was based on UNIX. And Apple DID give credit.

Longhorn is not based on UNIX. They did not give Apple credit nor the original programmers of UNIX.

What ideas has Apple taken and claimed them to be their own? Fast User Switching? Steve Jobs said that Microsoft beat them to it-- but then Apple did it better. And way back when, the Command+Tab way of switching between applications was originally in Windows 3.0. But Apple again improved things in System 7 by only allowing to switch between applications and then in OS X between windows and then in Panther that nice box on the screen. Windows hasn't moved forwards from Win 3.0 in that respect.

Yes, I did read the article. Yes, I was surprised how much is being "borrowed" from Apple.

"Instant-on from sleep, in under 2 seconds"
Macs have been doing that for years. I love this feature of my PowerBook. Couldn't get through the day without it. Close the lid, it sleeps. Open it, and its awake!

"Hot Patching means that you will only need to restart when you modify the kernel"
Yeah, last time I installed a driver for a USB device was... never. WinXP still likes me to after I install a printer, etc.
Most security updates modify the kernel of the OS, so if Microsoft continues like they have then... well... lots of restarts. At least it will restart faster. Maybe.

Avalon, aka, Quartz Extreme? Using that nice GPU in your computer means you can do neat stuff with the operating system. Apple got that idea. Microsoft forgot to credit them.

"Longhorn will more reliably resume after crashes..."
OK this is just sad. They plan on the operating system crashing. Not an errant program, but the entire OPERATING SYSTEM. OS X pretty much doesn't crash. That solves the issue, doesn't it? And if you do have issues, it is related to hardware 99% of the time.

The Encrypting File System..... FileVault, anyone? How long until a virus comes along that makes Longhorn "forget" the key? Uh-oh. That would be bad.

SyncManager will be universal! Best thing since sliced bread and..... iSync.

I would not be suprised to see the same some where in the MS. but it pretty well buried under a lot of other crap (like the apple on it in the 30 pages of crap no one going to read) Apple being pretty vage on when they are doing it.

It never seems right when apple users cry fail when ever MS remotingly copies them and yet when apple blantly copies, steals they praise them or they defind apple and say they came up with it.

By "in the MS" I'm assuming you mean Windows... so.... uh, no. Never have seen any credit given even in a 30 page long article that no one is going to read. Never seen one.

What has Apple blatantly stolen? Something Apple has taken but then added features to. Like the ability to switch between applications and quit them as you go, or hide them, or minimize them, etc. But what has Apple stolen and then not given any credit to whatsoever?

 

[Timelessblur]

Well, OS X was based on UNIX. And Apple DID give credit.

Longhorn is not based on UNIX. They did not give Apple credit nor the original programmers of UNIX.

What ideas has Apple taken and claimed them to be their own? Fast User Switching? Steve Jobs said that Microsoft beat them to it-- but then Apple did it better. And way back when, the Command+Tab way of switching between applications was originally in Windows 3.0. But Apple again improved things in System 7 by only allowing to switch between applications and then in OS X between windows and then in Panther that nice box on the screen. Windows hasn't moved forwards from Win 3.0 in that respect.

Can you say DASHBOARD, or Watson (or was it the other program). YOu have VM. btw apple fast user switching has more problems that MS. MS each users and all the program they are running on seprated things yet in APple some program have problems running with both users. It has trouble keeping the internet conections right (mostly with Dail up and PPoe setting) You switch users you loose internet on the other users. Windows no it knows that internet is system lv and you can run just fine from any users (heck when you log off it ask you if you want to say connected to the net)

Yes, I did read the article. Yes, I was surprised how much is being "borrowed" from Apple.

"Instant-on from sleep, in under 2 seconds"
Macs have been doing that for years. I love this feature of my PowerBook. Couldn't get through the day without it. Close the lid, it sleeps. Open it, and its awake!

That is an impovement on what they where already using. instead it just speeding it up so that not really coping it since it been in the computers for ages and sleep (stand by) is a lot of hardware side stuff with minor software. Apple still does not have hibernation which is really should add.

"Hot Patching means that you will only need to restart when you modify the kernel"
Yeah, last time I installed a driver for a USB device was... never. WinXP still likes me to after I install a printer, etc.
Most security updates modify the kernel of the OS, so if Microsoft continues like they have then... well... lots of restarts. At least it will restart faster. Maybe.

Well some does not really know what they are talking about. the reason it works it OSX put more drivers for the stuff into their OS. Windows by default did not install all the drivers. Most printers are in there already and most stuff is already in there. Also not all the current secerutiy update are kernal lv and do not require a restarted. They are planing on reduceing the restarts by 70% and most of the updates are not in the kernal it self but in stuff that runs on it but needs to be reboots to finish the install. Hot patching I think is using a tech call micro rebooting and is just the begining of what micro rebooting will be able to do. Dirver on windows I install was for my web cam my option logictech mouse drivers (which you would have to on apple) the printer I had to install the drivers on only because it a pretty new printer and it not a normal printer. The other usb printer I run on windows say the printer took a 2nd then knew what it was with out much help.

Avalon, aka, Quartz Extreme? Using that nice GPU in your computer means you can do neat stuff with the operating system. Apple got that idea. Microsoft forgot to credit them.

Avalon is not Quarz Extreme. Avalon is the next evolution of DricetX. Also Microsoft is puting in 3d stuff in thier OS (a known fact before apple did it or though about it)

"Longhorn will more reliably resume after crashes..."
OK this is just sad. They plan on the operating system crashing. Not an errant program, but the entire OPERATING SYSTEM. OS X pretty much doesn't crash. That solves the issue, doesn't it? And if you do have issues, it is related to hardware 99% of the time.

I know of plenty of macs that crash. Mostly waht cause the crashes is not the OS but a some software install on the computer is self mostiny spyware. OSX crash taht are software so you said does not solve the problem since even OSX crashes. My XP system in 9 months I can count on 1 hand of all the total crashes and only one of them was not related to something I was messing around with. Home computer gone almost 2 year with like 1 -4 crashes and I dont maintain that one.

The Encrypting File System..... FileVault, anyone? How long until a virus comes along that makes Longhorn "forget" the key? Uh-oh. That would be bad.

Flip it around. File Vault is copying encryption file system. It been in since I know at least windows XP and I pretty sure since windows NT since it is mostly come form NTFS formated. They are just impoving it a little bit. So another clear example of some not knowing their stuff.

 

[angelneo]

I would not be suprised to see the same some where in the MS. but it pretty well buried under a lot of other crap (like the apple on it in the 30 pages of crap no one going to read) Apple being pretty vage on when they are doing it.

It never seems right when apple users cry fail when ever MS remotingly copies them and yet when apple blantly copies, steals they praise them or they defind apple and say they came up with it.

You know, it might be more convincing if you can quote more examples. But I figure your mind is already set like a stone that all of us here are Apple fanatics.

 

[Fukui]

Can you say DASHBOARD, or Watson (or was it the other program). YOu have VM. btw apple fast user switching has more problems that MS.

Um, don't take this the wrong way but Dashboard has nothing to do with watson, dashboard is apple's answer to the sidebar thing in longhorn.
Watson was sherlock done better, sherlock 2 was watson done better....

MS each users and all the program they are running on seprated things yet in APple some program have problems running with both users. It has trouble keeping the internet conections right (mostly with Dail up and PPoe setting) You switch users you loose internet on the other users. Windows no it knows that internet is system lv and you can run just fine from any users (heck when you log off it ask you if you want to say connected to the net)

UM, ok.

 

[dotdotdot]

I wonder what was originally under that "Enter an administrator password..." line.

The build he was using was enabled w/ "Transparent Windows" a new LH feature... so you can kind of see through the window, which I think is really, really cool, but still know whats in the open window. You can turn this feature off...

 

[Fukui]

Avalon is not Quarz Extreme. Avalon is the next evolution of DricetX. Also Microsoft is puting in 3d stuff in thier OS (a known fact before apple did it or though about it)

Dude. I'm sorry again.... but.
Avalon is MS's hardware accelerated drawing framework for longhorn.
It is used for drawing graphics within the window itself, hence they are able to back port it to XP, it is Quartz 2d-extreme. Quartz Compositor which was called Quartz Extreme is what your refering to as DWM on LH I would say...

And MS putting 3-d stuff in thier OS? You mean Open GL?
Quartz Extreme (Window magager in Open GL) was shown since 2002 publicly, and its just now surfacing that apple has had a patent application for spotlight since 1999!! Who's been thinking ahead recently?

I think I see things a little different than you do, because the way I see it, I really don't care about whatver apple did because apple now is basically Next inc. with style. If you don't know what that means then whatever. IOW, in my mind the debate really isn't between apple and MS you should be comparing NeXT to MS, where then MS is preeeety far behind.

 

[dotdotdot]

Maybe everyone is overlooking the obvious... and Microsoft is just making it easier for windows users to switch over to the Mac. It looks the same it just everything is on the other side. *shifty eyes*

I reread the beginning of this thread and found this and was thinking "wow, that post is ALL wrong"

By Microsoft becoming a better OS and looking better and doing everything better than Windows XP, even though Macs have it already, would do the OPPOSITE of having Windows users switching...

Why switch to something when you can get it in the one you already have, on something familiar to you?

 

[GodBless]

Bill Gates isn't the CEO of Microsoft anymore, Steve Ballmer is. And we all know how crazy his behavior is -- Steve Ballmer Internet Link -- http://www.ntk.net/ballmer/mirrors.html

After watching these I can now understand why Windows users like to play games... its because they like cheap entertainment like watching Steve Ballmer sweating (i.e. the "Developers" video on the linked sight) and watching Steve Ballmer running and shouting (i.e. the "Monkey Boy" video on the linked sight. We Mac users like professionalism, we don't like to watch this garbage. We like Steve Jobs keynote addresses because they are planned well and are performed professionally. I think the true definition of Apple is quality and I often refer to PCs as "retroactive deconstructive exasperaters" (sounds like the definition of Steve Ballmer too).

By the way the two places in this where I used "i.e." I was NOT implying Internet Explorer -- That reminds me; you guys all know that the Internet Explorer for Longhorn will have tabbed browsing, a pop-up browser and a revised download manager, right?.

With all of this copying from Microsoft don't expect much new in Longhorn compared to Tiger. Microsoft will never be able to perfectly copy anything that Apple has made anyway, so don't expect the quality of Microsoft's copies to be as high as Apple's. And remember if Microsoft gets too close to Mac OS X then Apple will probably file a lawsuit -- and we all know how good Apple is at winning in court...

 

[Timelessblur]

Um, don't take this the wrong way but Dashboard has nothing to do with watson, dashboard is apple's answer to the sidebar thing in longhorn.
Watson was sherlock done better, sherlock 2 was watson done better....


UM, ok.

You right they are 2 separate programs. D
Dashboard is a blanant rip off of konfabulator.

For whatson that is a blant rip of sherlock (or did apple make the other one but either way ti a blant rip)

defind it all you want but the fact stands that it is a blanten rip off that apple is trying to say the invented and came up them selves.


Avlon been in the works since Longhorn started coming out so I dont know how that is coping but no it has to be coping.

 

[notjustjay]

Yes, I was surprised how much is being "borrowed" from Apple.

"Instant-on from sleep, in under 2 seconds"
Macs have been doing that for years.

This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Instant-on is copying Apple?

Gosh, if I ever write an OS, I'll make sure to build in an extra 10-second delay after waking up from sleep. Otherwise I'll be accused of copying Apple.

Having had to resort to using Hibernate on my Windows laptops (before finally selling them and converting 100% to my Mac), I'll be glad to see Windows have a proper Sleep feature (well, they call it Suspend). I hope it works.

 

[GeeYouEye]

At least the screenshot shows that it doesnt have the stupid "Microsoft made it, Windows will run it" idea...

And it's such a false idea, and not just in security terms either. My XP Pro box BSOD'd twice while trying to activate Microsoft's driver for a Sidewinder 3D Pro (still the greatest joystick ever made, IMO). Different errors each time too. And good god does it take forever to dump the memory to disk. And even now it's only intermittently recognized correctly, when it isn't, you have to cycle the analog/digital switch to get it to work. This is a real problem when you're flying through space, a TIE Advance in hot pursuit trying to get a missile lock on you, and your shields are at 30%.

 

[clayj]

Instant-on is copying Apple?

Geez, it's not like Apple OR Microsoft invented this feature... and you won't believe who did.

Tandy. That's right, RadioShack. (Or, as they were known back then, Radio Shack.)

Some of the Tandy 1000 series of desktop PCs had DOS and Tandy's DeskMate program built into ROM. Turn on the machine, and in about 2 seconds it was FULLY booted and ready for user interaction. It's kinda sad that no other PC or Mac has ever embraced this concept... why not have a complete OS built into a flashable ROM, so that the machine can boot instantly?

 

[Mechcozmo]

For whatson that is a blant rip of sherlock (or did apple make the other one but either way ti a blant rip)

Sherlock is what Apple made. Then Watson came along with a lot of neat features. Sherlock 2 had some of those features and not all of them. It was a logical progression for Sherlock. Watson was the 3rd party one here. And in the end, OS X came along and Watson..... faded...

Avlon been in the works since Longhorn started coming out so I dont know how that is coping but no it has to be coping.

Uh, Quartz was a feature in OS X. That was what, 2000-ish? Maybe a bit before? If Windows 2000 had this feature then Apple would have been copying from Microsoft. But Win2k didn't. And WinXP didn't. Now Longhorn (since ~2002 onwards, AFTER Quartz and Quartz Extreme were well demonstrated on the Mac) has this "brand new, amazing feature!"
Yeah. Riiiiiight. And the mouse was really who's idea anyway?

(Answer: Xerox. But Apple was allowed to take a tour of the PARC lab and essentially learn whatever they wanted for 1 million shares of Apple stock-- which due to the Apple ][, was a great deal. Then the engineers come back, Jobs gets a whiff of it, and the GUI is the next big thing. So Apple didn't steal the GUI or mouse. It was given to them. Xerox later sued Apple..... over the Lisa. In 1992. Nearly 8 years after the Lisa flopped and after the last few Lisas were buried in a landfill to get a tax break that year. Xerox didn't win.)

 

[ifjake]

why not have a complete OS built into a flashable ROM, so that the machine can boot instantly?

actually if i'm not mistaken (and i very well may be) there was this RISC OS made a while back that was based on the ARM processor. i think it was made by this British computer company called Acorn Computers. i want to say that the OS was small enough to be fully ROM based, making it super fast to boot and shut down. i think Acorn computers are also holding claim to the title of first 32 bit system, but in anycase it wasn't just some push over system. someone must know more than me about this. google it up.

 

[Bigheadache]

After watching these I can now understand why Windows users like to play games... its because they like cheap entertainment like watching Steve Ballmer sweating (i.e. the "Developers" video on the linked sight) and watching Steve Ballmer running and shouting (i.e. the "Monkey Boy" video on the linked sight. We Mac users like professionalism, we don't like to watch this garbage. We like Steve Jobs keynote addresses because they are planned well and are performed professionally. I think the true definition of Apple is quality and I often refer to PCs as "retroactive deconstructive exasperaters" (sounds like the definition of Steve Ballmer too).

Congratulations on the most nonsensical post in this thread. Can you please go to the gaming forum and tell them to stop complaining about the poor state of mac gaming since they aren't supposed to be playing games ('cheap entertainment' as you call it) on their 'professional' macs.

 

[notjustjay]

And the mouse was really who's idea anyway?

(Answer: Xerox. But Apple was allowed to take a tour of the PARC lab and essentially learn whatever they wanted for 1 million shares of Apple stock-- which due to the Apple ][, was a great deal. Then the engineers come back, Jobs gets a whiff of it, and the GUI is the next big thing. So Apple didn't steal the GUI or mouse. It was given to them. Xerox later sued Apple..... over the Lisa. In 1992. Nearly 8 years after the Lisa flopped and after the last few Lisas were buried in a landfill to get a tax break that year. Xerox didn't win.)

Yup. But as long as we're citing our history, let me point out again that Bill Gates got his primary inspiration for Windows (and GUI concepts in general) from Visicalc Software's "VisiOn" GUI product, which was essentially killed off by Gates' vaporware promises of that first version of Windows.

 

[Timelessblur]

Sherlock is what Apple made. Then Watson came along with a lot of neat features. Sherlock 2 had some of those features and not all of them. It was a logical progression for Sherlock. Watson was the 3rd party one here. And in the end, OS X came along and Watson..... faded...



Uh, Quartz was a feature in OS X. That was what, 2000-ish? Maybe a bit before? If Windows 2000 had this feature then Apple would have been copying from Microsoft. But Win2k didn't. And WinXP didn't. Now Longhorn (since ~2002 onwards, AFTER Quartz and Quartz Extreme were well demonstrated on the Mac) has this "brand new, amazing feature!"
Yeah. Riiiiiight. And the mouse was really who's idea anyway?

How many times does it have to stated. Avalon is the next generation of DirctX. They could make a dirctX10 but they stated they they where going ot move on to Alavon. The features add in Avolon seem to follow pretty well in the next generation of DirctX which has been around since oh yeah windows 95. The close thing that in tiger where the OS dumping more to the graphic card. Long horn is going to use the 3d accelator that have been in the graphic cards for ages. Hmm a known fact since before tiger. But not it remoting coping apple so their for it is a blant copy. Face it MS came up the idea. DirctX is much older then Quartz so wouldnt that make Quartz a copy of DirctX. Alvaon is just the next step in the evolution of it and it not a huge jump to do what they did

 

[Mav451]

Meh, I hope they improve Direct X to the point that it will, itself, run a diagnostic (without user intervention) to make sure H/W acceleration is there.

All these people who complain about "slow screen redraw in Windows XP" never have their video drivers speaking to DX9 correctly (DirectDraw Acceleration: Enabled/Disabled).

And it shows. Scrolling is slow as sh_t, moving windows, anything with screen redraw is unbearably slow. Avalon better be refined enough that DirectX can diagnose these problems autonomously.

 

[GodBless]

Congratulations on the most nonsensical post in this thread. Can you please go to the gaming forum and tell them to stop complaining about the poor state of mac gaming since they aren't supposed to be playing games ('cheap entertainment' as you call it) on their 'professional' macs.

I don't know about you, but I like to live in reality -- therefore I have no use for games because they simulate reality. I think that people get drunk for the same reason they play games; they want to escape reality. So that is why I don't endorse games.

I get my entertainment from productivity. This is why I will enjoy Dashboard when Tiger comes out. I will get work done while I'm entertained. I think life is a game of many great challenges that last a lifetime. A video/computer game lasts only until you beat all the levels or something along those lines.

If you waste your time playing games you ruin your reality because you loose time that you can use to benefit your true reality. You can simply just pause a game, but you can't do that in real life. It is nonsense to call my previous post nonsense.

 

[Mechcozmo]

why not have a complete OS built into a flashable ROM, so that the machine can boot instantly?

The Macintosh Classic. System 6.0.8 burned into ROM. Press Command+Option+X+O on startup. Only way to make them be fast....

 

[Mechcozmo]

Alvaon is just the next step in the evolution of it and it not a huge jump to do what they did

It is the a huge jump! DirectX 9 had no indication this was coming along. This is not DirectX 10. This is Avalon. This is new. This is Quartz, repackaged for Longhorn.