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Newest Longhorn *SURPRISE* Copies OSX!
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Mechcozmo said:
This topic intrigues me so I did some surfing on google. The idea I get is that Mechcozmo is right that Avalon is a totally new and not part of a evolution of DirectX although people tends to say that it is. But to say it's Quartz repackaged might be misleading as they are 2 different systems. It's more like Quartz has already implemented many functions that Avalon promise to do.Timelessblur said:
But it seems that Longhorn is now being built onto XP. It might get really complicated or ugly behind the scene as they port Avalon to XP. I was really hoping for a brand new OS instead of a one build on XP codebase.
I found it in some of the articles I read. here's a fewMav451 said:
http://www.windowsitpro.com/Article/ArticleID/45741/45741.html?Ad=1
On Microsoft site as well.
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2004/Aug04/08-27Target2006PR.asp
I'm not sure whether it is a good thing or bad as it may means developer can start using the new system or it may means that the Avalon and Indigo are build on top of XP.
This is weird. I swear it was only the filesystem, just so corporate users wouldn't be bitching about the transition. *shrug*
Timelessblur's statements are starting to make more sense now. If Avalon is plausible on XP SP2...then its hardly even revolutionary, but evolutionary DX10-ish, if you will.
Timelessblur's statements are starting to make more sense now. If Avalon is plausible on XP SP2...then its hardly even revolutionary, but evolutionary DX10-ish, if you will.
I love to bash Microsoft as much as the next guy. I can't say enough bad things about them.
But this is a sandbag, pure and simple.
First off, I agree that they are doing a copy of the functionality. They are not going to let Apple get all of the good press about OSX being better since they want to kill the switcher movement, kill the perception there is choice in the OS world (Linux), and because of Gates' hating the fact that Jobs is considered the industry innovator.
But don't go to crazy about the UI. It's a peg holder.
The real UI, with a 3D environment has not been released to the public. It comes in September. And from what I hear, they are going to blow folks away.
Now, I know the cynical reaction. I have it too. But we have seen one piece--the new fonts--and they look amazing.
I share all of this because I am worried about Longhorn. I think MSFT is going to get this version right and knock the ball out of the park.
We can be smug about the past 20 years of MSFT crap, but they have never faced a threat like Linux, and they are startled at what happened with iTunes and the iPod. They are betting the farm on Longhorn, and purposely sandbagging expectations.
So yes, it will be comparable to Tiger in most features. It will be better in IT functionality for corporations than Tiger. It will be secure. And it will have a UI which will make Tiger look stale.
I think Apple has 18 months to make the switcher thing happen, or Longhorn will move the Windows' bar to "good enough" and keep Windows folks in the fold for another 10 years.
I hope I am wrong. I really do. But Microsoft is leveraging a lot of outside talent to make Longhorn a Linux/OSX killer. And this outside talent (including copying Apple) is filling the holes typical to M$ products.
So yes, I am afraid. And I hope to God 10.5 is a massive upgrade which jobs talks about in Sept 06 to steal the thunder from the Longhorn launch--if that is even possible.
But this is a sandbag, pure and simple.
First off, I agree that they are doing a copy of the functionality. They are not going to let Apple get all of the good press about OSX being better since they want to kill the switcher movement, kill the perception there is choice in the OS world (Linux), and because of Gates' hating the fact that Jobs is considered the industry innovator.
But don't go to crazy about the UI. It's a peg holder.
The real UI, with a 3D environment has not been released to the public. It comes in September. And from what I hear, they are going to blow folks away.
Now, I know the cynical reaction. I have it too. But we have seen one piece--the new fonts--and they look amazing.
I share all of this because I am worried about Longhorn. I think MSFT is going to get this version right and knock the ball out of the park.
We can be smug about the past 20 years of MSFT crap, but they have never faced a threat like Linux, and they are startled at what happened with iTunes and the iPod. They are betting the farm on Longhorn, and purposely sandbagging expectations.
So yes, it will be comparable to Tiger in most features. It will be better in IT functionality for corporations than Tiger. It will be secure. And it will have a UI which will make Tiger look stale.
I think Apple has 18 months to make the switcher thing happen, or Longhorn will move the Windows' bar to "good enough" and keep Windows folks in the fold for another 10 years.
I hope I am wrong. I really do. But Microsoft is leveraging a lot of outside talent to make Longhorn a Linux/OSX killer. And this outside talent (including copying Apple) is filling the holes typical to M$ products.
So yes, I am afraid. And I hope to God 10.5 is a massive upgrade which jobs talks about in Sept 06 to steal the thunder from the Longhorn launch--if that is even possible.
I'm getting disappointed day by day, initially they are saying its an all new OS, even windows software developers will have to rewrite their software as it is based on a new platform (kinda like OS9 to OS X transition). Then they start pushing the deadline back again and again, next win FS is outed, now all the so-called new technologies is ported to win XP. I mean come on, they have all the talented programmers and tons of money to burn, is there some kind of politics involved or some mis-management? I was really hoping to upgrade my PC to Longhorn. Blah, I think I will stick to my powerbook and the upcoming Tiger.Mav451 said:
Fukui said:
wow.. sorry this is a lil off topic but I'm tired of talking about MS. I just read "Acknowledgements.rtf" and that's should be in every OS. That's very fitting of them to acknowledge the work of these companies and people. I was a lil horrified though to see Intel had anything to do with the BSD OS... hopefully the impact was minimal. I saw one paticular 'no suprise' in ties to FreeBSD, it would be really cool if Apple ported FreeBSD's Linux compatibility software into OS X.. the Linux executables would still have to be compiled for PPC but hey....
Since longhorn will not run on a DP G4 or G5 i will never buy it!
I know dumb comment..
Being an MCSE ( and hating it ) I am wondering if they will ever get it when it comes to spicific operating systems to fit only 1 type of processor configuration. They have one version for 32 and an other for 64!?
The requirements for this NEW os seem obsene!, did anyone read what you need for a base system?
I love how Panther runs fine on my B&W G3, and from what I can read from Apple, Tiger will also be commpatible with that old boat.
I know dumb comment..
Being an MCSE ( and hating it ) I am wondering if they will ever get it when it comes to spicific operating systems to fit only 1 type of processor configuration. They have one version for 32 and an other for 64!?
The requirements for this NEW os seem obsene!, did anyone read what you need for a base system?
I love how Panther runs fine on my B&W G3, and from what I can read from Apple, Tiger will also be commpatible with that old boat.
840quadra said:
They system requirements that you read are the RECOMENDED not the minumal. There is a huge diffences bettween the 2. As for having a 32bit and a 64 bit because their are a lot of 32 bit chips out there and 64 bit is the future.
And you G3 I would not be surpised to be under the recomended requirements. Also in a year the recomend requirement for Longhorn will not see that far off base and will be well within the norm. right now it is closer to the higher end of systems but in a year those system will be on the weaker side and below what low end. You can build a PC now that meet those requirement for under 1 grand including monitor.
Timelessblur said:
I understand the minimum and Maximums for running, and you are correct my wording was poor. however I am not green when it comes to minimums, and what that means for the next revision.
As far as the G3, my information may be old, but from mwhat I understood, anything with built in Firewire is an acceptable option for Tiger. I only used G3 as a mounting point for representig Apples compatibility with their own systems, and besides it is a G4 now anyway
.. As far as Tiger goes, I am buying a DP G5 next week, and my DP Quicksilver should run tiger just fine as well.The 64 bit code should be included in the one boxed copy. I would bet, that the code for 32bit (no matter what licence code, hack or what have you) will not function on a 64 bit system. Isn't Tiger goign to be compatible with both the older G4's and 64 Bit G5's
I have to admit that I do like the glass GUI. It's really neat.
But you know what's funny? OS X is capable of this for a while. It's just that people choose not to use the capability. I sort of wish people would. It's really neat looking
But you know what's funny? OS X is capable of this for a while. It's just that people choose not to use the capability. I sort of wish people would. It's really neat looking
840quadra said:I understand the minimum and Maximums for running, and you are correct my wording was poor. however I am not green when it comes to minimums, and what that means for the next revision.
As far as the G3, my information may be old, but from mwhat I understood, anything with built in Firewire is an acceptable option for Tiger. I only used G3 as a mounting point for representig Apples compatibility with their own systems, and besides it is a G4 now anyway
The 64 bit code should be included in the one boxed copy. I would bet, that the code for 32bit (no matter what licence code, hack or what have you) will not function on a 64 bit system. Isn't Tiger goign to be compatible with both the older G4's and 64 Bit G5's
You're right, it won't work. Speaking from experiance from getting Linux running on my opterons, no if you are running a 64 bit system, you cannot run 32 bit applications. Unless you also have the 32 bit libraries that will be required by all that software you want to run.
jayscheuerle
macrumors 68020
clayjohanson said:
Uh, no... There are PLENTY of other ways to do this. There are completely different approaches. We're just not seeing any. Microsoft copies Apple. Apple copies Microsoft. We end up having 2 Os's that are growing closer with each release with no REAL innovation going on by either one, just a competitive evolution...
Mav451 said:
There are different levels of Avalon. XP + SP2 gets a cut-down version. Longhorn gets the full-blown version with the "Aero" user interface. If you want to take full advantage of what Microsoft has been working on for the last eight billion years, you need to buy Longhorn.
From Paul Thurrott's site:
(Source)
As someone who (barely) makes his living programming applications for Microsoft Windows, I'm looking forward to Longhorn, whenever it comes out.
PlaceofDis said:
Next they may announce a "Command-Line" version of Longhorn that will change how people work. A revamped DOS with 4 new commands and a new editor that uses the Microsoft Word keystrokes.
Steve Ballmer: "We wanted to start all over again so we went back to the command line. We think our customers want to switch back also. Longhorn CL 2007 will change the way we use our computers.... again!"
jayscheuerle
macrumors 68020
VincentVega said:
From what these boards indicate, real work on Longhorn won't begin until April 15th...
clayjohanson said:
Microsoft is dependent on backward - compatibility, yes. But not for a technical reason.
If their system is all new, the main reason for it´s huge market-share is existing no longer: everyone uses it, so you get all the software for (illegally) free, so everyone maintains buying PCs/Windows. If Microsoft made the system all new, with no backward-compatibility, there´s no reason for sticking to Microsoft´s product any more. Battle for marketshare begins at zero. Microsoft simply cannot make it all new, this would possibly (not to say likely) be the beginning of their death.
Sherlock came out in what was it mac os 8? I think that was like '97, AFAIK it let you search on the internet for addresses phone numbers movies etc.Timelessblur said:
As for dashboard being a rip off of confabulator. Thats entirely wrong.
Dashboard is a rip-off of desktop ornaments which came out in mac os 1 already in development in 1-9-8-1.
Go ahead and read it from the person that made it!
Now, of course apple does take things and claim they did it or did it better, but really, there's not as much blatant copying as MS does (which explains why they are so sucessful)....
Fukui said:
I have read the artical and I honestly dont bye it. That or a lot of people here need to change their tune about MS if they go with that argument since Dashboard look almost exactly like konfab and very little like this thing. If you going to use that then explain why it was not in OS 10.0-10.3 and konfab had a few years to grow and become popular. It become big and then it almost exaclty like konfab
Who would have ever thought of asking for a password before making a critical system change!!! Apple better start getting smarter when it comes to security... who knows, I wouldn't be surprised to see the new Windows ask you for a Administrator password before formatting the hard drive!?