Next AppleTV?

[Poki]

Actually, I think a refresh of the Apple TV would be a great move on Apples part. With Apple TV+ and Apple Arcade both launching this holiday season, new hardware would certainly create some additional buzz around those services. They even could offer a bundle with a gaming controller and a free six month Apple Arcade subscription or something.

However, I don't think it will be a "next generation" kind of update, my guess would be a mid-cycle update like the XBox One S or PS4 Slim. If we look at the Geekbench results, Apple could easily replace the old and power hungry A10X with an A11 – this would achieve an even better performance, and it would allow the device to get rid of the fan, which could make it smaller and quieter. Also, the A11 could by now be cheaper to produce than the A10X.

 

[Juicy Box]

Actually, I think a refresh of the Apple TV would be a great move on Apples part. With Apple TV+ and Apple Arcade both launching this holiday season, new hardware would certainly create some additional buzz around those services. They even could offer a bundle with a gaming controller and a free six month Apple Arcade subscription or something.

However, I don't think it will be a "next generation" kind of update, my guess would be a mid-cycle update like the XBox One S or PS4 Slim. If we look at the Geekbench results, Apple could easily replace the old and power hungry A10X with an A11 – this would achieve an even better performance, and it would allow the device to get rid of the fan, which could make it smaller and quieter. Also, the A11 could by now be cheaper to produce than the A10X.

While the A11 has slightly better single and multi-core benchmarks on mobile devices, the A10X has a much better GPU, and isn't even close.

Putting the A11 in the ATV would be a downgrade when compared to the A10X.

Now, the A12X in an ATV would be an all-around improvement.

 

[Poki]

While the A11 has slightly better single and multi-core benchmarks on mobile devices, the A10X has a much better GPU, and isn't even close.

Putting the A11 in the ATV would be a downgrade when compared to the A10X.

Now, the A12X in an ATV would be an all-around improvement.

While i would love to see an Apple TV with the A12X, I think that chip might just be a little too expensive and power hungry. Not sure how exactly the A12 GPU compares to the A10X GPU, but it might just be fast enough for a "slim" refresh. In any case, I just think updating the Apple TV would be an important move this fall, and I'm interested to see if they can improve anything else except the SoC.

 

[Juicy Box]

While i would love to see an Apple TV with the A12X, I think that chip might just be a little too expensive and power hungry. Not sure how exactly the A12 GPU compares to the A10X GPU, but it might just be fast enough for a "slim" refresh. In any case, I just think updating the Apple TV would be an important move this fall, and I'm interested to see if they can improve anything else except the SoC.

You can check out the benchmarks you posted to see the difference in GPUs.

The A12X has about 45% higher scores over the A10X.
The A10X has about 45% higher scores than the A12.
The A10X has almost 100% higher scores than the A11.
Actually, the A9X has slightly higher scores than the A11.

With almost 300% better GPU benchmarks, I think the A12X would be much better suited for the ATV over the A11.

Of course this is all on mobile devices, I would assume that a device that isn't dependent on a battery might be able to push those benchmarks even further.

I am not sure why "power hungry" would be a big factor on a static device.

 

[Poki]

You can check out the benchmarks you posted to see the difference in GPUs.

The A12X has about 45% higher scores over the A10X.
The A10X has about 45% higher scores than the A12.
The A10X has almost 100% higher scores than the A11.
Actually, the A9X has slightly higher scores than the A11.

With almost 300% better GPU benchmarks, I think the A12X would be much better suited for the ATV over the A11.

Of course this is all on mobile devices, I would assume that a device that isn't dependent on a battery might be able to push those benchmarks even further.

I am not sure why "power hungry" would be a big factor on a static device.

Thanks for pointing that out, didn't realize the A10X GPU was that good.

Power hungry is a problem because the current Apple TV 4K needs a fan to cool the SoC, which wouldn't be the case with a less power hungry chip. Would make the device smaller and totally quiet, which would at least be small advantages over the current model.

 

[andyw715]

I didn't realize the 4k had a fan. I knew it was physically bigger. I've never heard it running though.

 

[Juicy Box]

Thanks for pointing that out, didn't realize the A10X GPU was that good.

Power hungry is a problem because the current Apple TV 4K needs a fan to cool the SoC, which wouldn't be the case with a less power hungry chip. Would make the device smaller and totally quiet, which would at least be small advantages over the current model.

I meant to mention heat as the only reason for a less “power hungry” chip.

Personally, I would prefer power over fanless. The only downsides to having a fan is slightly more power draw, noise, potentially failure, and taking up more space.

The first two are not really an issue for the ATV4K.

I didn't realize the 4k had a fan. I knew it was physically bigger. I've never heard it running though.

Yes, it does have a fan.

It is surprisingly large fan too.

As for the fan noise, it is super quiet. Even with no other background noise, it isn’t really noticeable to me.

 

[Juicy Box]

didn't realize the A10X GPU was that good.

The X variants of the A Chips have more GPU cores than their non-X counterparts, making them ideal for the ATV.

The ATV4 should of had the A8X or A9X at its launch, imo. But, Apple gimped it with the relatively underpowered A8.

I think this is one of the many reasons that the ATV4 failed to live up to its pre-launch hype and potential. Especially when it came to gaming.

I was hoping that with the A10X in the ATV4K and the relaxing of development restrictions that Apple initially set with tvOS, the developers would starting bringing some awesome apps and games to the tvOS App Store, but sadly, this has not happened so far, imo.

 

[KG87]

I'm still holding out hope that eventually they release some sort of HomePod/Apple TV hybrid product that functions just as a HomePod does now - but has the performance/functionality and ports that Apple TV has so you can just keep one of these next to your TV.

Beyond that, if this could also be a base mesh router and additional HomePods were satellites, we'd be talking about an awesome home setup.

 

[MandiMac]

The ATV4 should of had the A8X or A9X at its launch, imo. But, Apple gimped it with the relatively underpowered A8. I think this is one of the many reasons that the ATV4 failed to live up to its pre-launch hype and potential. Especially when it came to gaming.I was hoping that with the A10X in the ATV4K and the relaxing of development restrictions that Apple initially set with tvOS, the developers would starting bringing some awesome apps and games to the tvOS App Store, but sadly, this has not happened so far, imo.

And there we are: In the fall 2019 Apple will release Apple Arcade, where you can play on almost every iOS device. Wouldn't that be the exact right time to release a new model? We have the tiers "normal" and "pro" everywhere now, from the MacBooks over iPads up to iPhones with XR and Xs. Why not for Apple TV as well? One for the masses, one for enthusiasts.

 

[Poki]

And there we are: In the fall 2019 Apple will release Apple Arcade, where you can play on almost every iOS device. Wouldn't that be the exact right time to release a new model? We have the tiers "normal" and "pro" everywhere now, from the MacBooks over iPads up to iPhones with XR and Xs. Why not for Apple TV as well? One for the masses, one for enthusiasts.

The more I think about a new Apple TV, the more sense it would make. With a possible A13X chip and some efficient, active cooling, this thing could run circles around current gaming consoles, while still being cheaper, smaller and more accessible than the next gen consoles. I just don't know if the mass market appeal is big enough for such a device. After all, hardcore gamers are always going to choose a console or PC over a set top box, while casual gamers won't spend €300+ on such a box.

 

[andyw715]

I could go for an AppleTV Pro

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

And there we are: In the fall 2019 Apple will release Apple Arcade, where you can play on almost every iOS device. Wouldn't that be the exact right time to release a new model? We have the tiers "normal" and "pro" everywhere now, from the MacBooks over iPads up to iPhones with XR and Xs. Why not for Apple TV as well? One for the masses, one for enthusiasts.

I've never considered Apple TV to be for the masses. They simply use their smart TV apps - Netflix, YouTube - you only have to read this forum to see them being quite happy with AirPlay being introduced to their TVs - UNTIL the stream starts stuttering/buffering/crashing etc. Personally, I believe that it is the most stupid move by Apple to offer it in smart TVS. Remember how unreliable Airplay was for something as simple as audio in airplay speakers by B&O, B&W etc over the years?

Apple TV has always been for the person interested in the Apple eco-system with a great performance. With a A10X chip and Dolby Vision, auto frame rate switching etc, it was a very much a 'Pro' model.
Not convinced that gamers would use an ATV no matter what Apple offered - they are either from the PC camp or Playstation / Xbox world and seem to be a conservative type for these platforms.

 

[ondert]

With the arrival of Apple Arcade this fall, an update would be appreciated. Also, ATV looks like the best hub for HomeKit.

 

[kiranmk2]

I think a new version of the ATV is coming soon for several reasons:

-Think back to the iPad Pro launch - we were told that the A12X has an Xbox One S-level GPU. In a mains-powered, fan-cooled device the GPU can probably be clocked higher (and the A12X was a 7 nm chip to begin with)

-HDMI 2.1 allows Apple to get rid of some little bug bear issues such as the black frame when switching resolution / frame rate (using QMS), switch the TV into Game mode automatically (ALLM) and support changing refresh rates to make games feel fluid (VRR). It's now over 6 months since LG launched their 2019 TVs with HDMI 2.1 so it should be possiblefor Apple to include the ports.

-Apple Arcade would take advantage of all of these features with a big push on gaming (hopefully, Apple will get it right this time) - the TvOS 13 compatibility with PS4 and XBox One S controllers is a big hint in this direction.

The down side of this is that the new Apple TV will probably cost $$$ (more RAM, A12X, likely more flash memory) so I can see it being launched as a gaming product with a bundled controller for $250 (or, knowing Apple, $299) with the ATV 4K getting a price cut to $150 and the Apple TV 4 disappearing. IF Apple are pushing into the services arena then I can see them offering the new Apple TV for and extra $10-20/month on top of the Appe Arcade subscription if you take it out for 12-18 months.

 

[x-evil-x]

There are things that need updating. Youtube in 4k I don't think will ever be supported with apple and youtube codec. We can only stream Atmos but cant play it from our own hard drives. I have two appletv 4k's and looking to sell one to get a Nvidia shield to add to the rest of things I have. I side loaded Kodi onto one of the appletv's and strictly use one with my vpn router. Hulu and amazon aren't great either as they don't work right with HDR(amazon just dropped this?) and Hulu is 2 Channel audio for how long now?
Seems like most people would be better off with a mix of devices if you want to get everything.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

There are things that need updating. Youtube in 4k I don't think will ever be supported with apple and youtube codec. We can only stream Atmos but cant play it from our own hard drives. I have two appletv 4k's and looking to sell one to get a Nvidia shield to add to the rest of things I have. I side loaded Kodi onto one of the appletv's and strictly use one with my vpn router. Hulu and amazon aren't great either as they don't work right with HDR(amazon just dropped this?) and Hulu is 2 Channel audio for how long now?
Seems like most people would be better off with a mix of devices if you want to get everything.

YouTube is currently at this very moment in time experimenting with AV1. VP9 is going to be dropped so there was never any reason why Apple would use it for 4K YouTube content. 2020 is the year for AV1 and of course, you'll see YouTube in 4K using the AV1 compression method. Whether AV1 on Apple TV will wait for tvOS14 or a monthly tvOS upgrade, I don't know.

The upscaler to 4K is pretty excellent on the Apple TV anyway so for me, I'm truly happy with YouTube vlogs at present.

 

[x-evil-x]

YouTube is currently at this very moment in time experimenting with AV1. VP9 is going to be dropped so there was never any reason why Apple would use it for 4K YouTube content. 2020 is the year for AV1 and of course, you'll see YouTube in 4K using the AV1 compression method. Whether AV1 on Apple TV will wait for tvOS14 or a monthly tvOS upgrade, I don't know.

The upscaler to 4K is pretty excellent on the Apple TV anyway so for me, I'm truly happy with YouTube vlogs at present.

Didn't know that but that's great news. My Sony 900f with the youtube app is ehh in comparison to the YouTube app on the tv. Id rather just have all the 4k content the downscaled 4k or 1080p stuff never looks right to me.

 

[priitv8]

We can only stream Atmos but cant play it from our own hard drives.

Why not?
(The only precondition: you have the streaming version of Atmos and not the lossless track).
But its not about that Apple does not allow it. Its about the codec.

 

[x-evil-x]

Why not?
(The only precondition: you have the streaming version of Atmos and not the lossless track).
But its not about that Apple does not allow it. Its about the codec.

how do you get the appletv to play the Atmos track?

 

[bluespark]

I'd very much like to see a "mini" or feature-reduced version of the Apple TV. I have the 4K and 4 models on a few TVs in my house, but have others that need "smart" functionality but not necessarily the entire Apple TV experience. Absent an affordable Apple solution, I'll have to outfit them with Roku or Amazon sticks, which is less than ideal.

If I were Apple, I'd continue to offer the ATV 4K (perhaps with upgrades) but would drop the 4 in favor of a more basic and competitively-priced streaming stick.

 

[priitv8]

how do you get the appletv to play the Atmos track?

Provided you have a DD+ Atmos track, you run the .MKV or .MP4/.M4V (also raw .AC3/.EC3 audio files work) file through Subler (since v1.5) to fix the MagicCookie bytes in MP4 track header, so that tvOS recognises Atmos.
If you download the Dolby Atmos demo MP4-files, you do not need to fix anything, they are already compliant.
Then you just AirPlay or HomeShare them .M4V-s via iOS or iTunes

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

I'd very much like to see a "mini" or feature-reduced version of the Apple TV. I have the 4K and 4 models on a few TVs in my house, but have others that need "smart" functionality but not necessarily the entire Apple TV experience. Absent an affordable Apple solution, I'll have to outfit them with Roku or Amazon sticks, which is less than ideal.

If I were Apple, I'd continue to offer the ATV 4K (perhaps with upgrades) but would drop the 4 in favor of a more basic and competitively-priced streaming stick.

IMO, I don't believe that Apple would ever offer a 'stick'. That's not in Apple's design ethos! Remember, when the Apple TV 2 launched nine years ago, it's design was pretty original and has remained fresh to this day - Roku's, Amazon's simply look cheaply designed, hurried with no design thought process.
Apple really do things differently - I honestly cannot see what a 'basic' version of the Apple TV 4K would be as it's all software driven.
Apple doesn't make cheap, it makes quality that lasts for many years, therefore saving on the landfills - many people are still using Apple TV 3 from 2012!
You get what you pay for in life. Buy cheap and buy again or get poor user experience, reliability and performance. It's like complaining that a beautiful TOM FORD fragrance is expensive when you can buy a cheap perfume shop horrible smelling thing for 25 Euro.
I'd rather save hard and have the Apple TV at today's price knowing that it will give a perfect user experience, will have class leading security, not crash whilst enjoying a film with friends, offer a truly stunning, well thought out UI with zero adverts and get tvOS updates for many, many years to come!

 

[cynics]

I think we will see a new ATV in the next year, maybe a bit more.

To me it seems like Apple is moving away from the A8. I'm assuming they don't have TSMC making it anymore so they are working of stock. The iPod Touch was refreshed leaving only the AppleTV 4th gen and HomePod using the A8. Even with that the don't make the 64gb AppleTV 4th gen anymore.

I have no way of knowing but I think it would probably be more profitable to create a new AppleTV and HomePod once the stock of A8 and any other shared components are depleted. The alternative is spending millions to get the fab up running producing a SoC using a 20nm (and thus expensive) node all for what will be older "budget" products by then.

The new AppleTV and potentially HomePod like many other products aren't created for the markets needs, they are created to fit into Apple product price points. They just tend to come up with some good ideas to stick into the product. And they are masters of manufacturing the reason you need those products in your life.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

I think we will see a new ATV in the next year, maybe a bit more.

To me it seems like Apple is moving away from the A8. I'm assuming they don't have TSMC making it anymore so they are working of stock. The iPod Touch was refreshed leaving only the AppleTV 4th gen and HomePod using the A8. Even with that the don't make the 64gb AppleTV 4th gen anymore.

I have no way of knowing but I think it would probably be more profitable to create a new AppleTV and HomePod once the stock of A8 and any other shared components are depleted. The alternative is spending millions to get the fab up running producing a SoC using a 20nm (and thus expensive) node all for what will be older "budget" products by then.

The new AppleTV and potentially HomePod like many other products aren't created for the markets needs, they are created to fit into Apple product price points. They just tend to come up with some good ideas to stick into the product. And they are masters of manufacturing the reason you need those products in your life.

I don't know about 'needing' Mr Cynics BUT because of Apple TV, I was able to get rid of a DVD player, 4K BluRay player and satellite box along with all of my discs, satellite subscription, LoveFilm subscription etc - in reality that one cute lil thing meant that i didn't 'need' anything else in my lounge AV wise
[doublepost=1565453560][/doublepost]This video truly explains why the Amazon Fire is cheap compared to the Apple TV. It's very very clear to see why an Apple TV sells for the price that it does after watching a vlog like this.
Hopefully this video will end peoples perceptions about wanting cheap cheap cheap...