NFC...wow i want!

[Geckotek]

And you obviously haven't experienced using your phone as a grocery list in a store that has password protected wi-fi and everytime you turn your phone on to see what else you need you get this obnoxious pop up asking if you want to connect to wi-fi. No!!! yoU can't connect to any of the ones you're asking about anyways, quit asking!!!! And if I bother to turn it off, then I forget to turn it on back home where I do want it to connect for some features (like synching my phone to the computer without me having to do anything but plug it in or synching my finance program from my desktop to the mobile client).

I wish apple would either do something about it always asking if you want to connect to wi-fi or having it never connect unless you go into settings and ask (They could at least program it to only ask if it senses new connections that you didn't tell it not to connect to. When I'm in the same store and have been there for maybe 15 minutes I shouldn't have to keep telling it no). Personally, I don't need NFC to do that, all I need is for apple to let me toggle a widget even on the notification screen that lets me turn wi-fi on and off manually rather than having to go to the screen that has my settings, go into settings, go into general, turn on or off wifi. It's ridiculous (and a pet peeve if you can't tell). I'd be perfectly happy if they even just implemented that.

Your argument makes no sense to me. So you turn off your WiFi to avoid the auto pop-ups asking you to join new WiFi points? Why not just uncheck that "Ask to join networks" feature? It makes far more sense than turning your WiFi on and off. I only leave that feature on in the first few days of a new device. Then I disable it. Problem solved.

And if it's a WiFi spot that requires a web interface password, I usually just "forget" that network. Better than turning off my WiFi.

I keep my WiFi on 97% of the time with very few issues. I think the new feature that will jump to 3G/4G when WiFi isn't connecting will make it so I have even less reason to worry about it.

 

[tdar]

What's the problem with the current NFC payment implementation?

We talked about that all morning. (US time)

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

Your argument makes no sense to me. So you turn off your WiFi to avoid the auto pop-ups asking you to join new WiFi points? Why not just uncheck that "Ask to join networks" feature? It makes far more sense than turning your WiFi on and off. I only leave that feature on in the first few days of a new device. Then I disable it. Problem solved.

And if it's a WiFi spot that requires a web interface password, I usually just "forget" that network. Better than turning off my WiFi.

I keep my WiFi on 97% of the time with very few issues. I think the new feature that will jump to 3G/4G when WiFi isn't connecting will make it so I have even less reason to worry about it.

Exactly. I can't believe even iPhone users aren't aware of this. You'd think they've never touched an iPhone or they're Android users.

 

[tbayrgs]

NFC is useful, ok, cool. The iPhone doesn't have it. Is the lack of NFC going to cause me to switch back to Android? No, not as of now, but I wish they would have included it for the future. Well, they didn't, and it's sure to be on a future iPhone, which I will most likely buy.

Exactly how I feel as well. Very cool feature that has lots of potential but enough to make me switch devices? Certainly not now.

What bewilders me is venom spewed from the Apple apologists against the usefulness of NFC. There are no circumstances where manually reconfiguring your iPhone is easier than using an NFC tag and believing so is pure ignorance. You may not mind doing it manually but it's definitely not easier, period. You may find your battery life acceptable just leaving all of your wireless options on all day--that's fine. It doesn't change the fact that turning them off when not needed WILL improve your battery life, simple fact. Denying this as well just makes you look ignorance and blindly loyal. And I love how these same people will bitch about spending $15 for NFC tags when they've very like spent many times that on things like cases--of which you can only use one at time.

I'm a HUGE Apple fan but the lack of objectivity and blind loyalty of certain fanboys is incredibly aggravating. It's people like them that give Apple fans such a bad reputation.

 

[tdar]

Then don't buy them. Form is clearly more important than function for you, that's your prerogative. Why are you in this thread? NFC is clearly not for you.

The point is that most people get all the function they need or want with what we have today. They do not see any need for any more than that. Any improvement they need can be provided with the equipment we have today. My point is that NFC is not today for most people.

I'm in this thread to offer the other point of view and because I'm interested in why anyone would care about this technology today. I'm also interested in seeing if someone has thought of a real reason for a truly good use for this technology. So far, the answer for me is no. I could ask why you are in a iPhone forum, as it's clear you are an android user that falls directly into their target market and would never be happy with an iPhone. But I hope that you're curious and open minded enough to try to see the world from some other point of view and see that maybe we have our reasons for our choices. To say that "Form is clearly more important than function for you" to someone who sees things differently does not give me much hope there.

----------

Exactly how I feel as well. Very cool feature that has lots of potential but enough to make me switch devices? Certainly not now.

What bewilders me is venom spewed from the Apple apologists against the usefulness of NFC. There are no circumstances where manually reconfiguring your iPhone is easier than using an NFC tag and believing so is pure ignorance. You may not mind doing it manually but it's definitely not easier, period. You may find your battery life acceptable just leaving all of your wireless options on all day--that's fine. It doesn't change the fact that turning them off when not needed WILL improve your battery life, simple fact. Denying this as well just makes you look ignorance and blindly loyal. And I love how these same people will bitch about spending $15 for NFC tags when they've very like spent many times that on things like cases--of which you can only use one at time.

I'm a HUGE Apple fan but the lack of objectivity and blind loyalty of certain fanboys is incredibly aggravating. It's people like you that give Apple fans such a bad reputation.

Please do not make the mistake of thinking that people who do not think that some this or that feature the iPhone does not have is not needed because they are Apple fan boys. That is not always true. I am not an Apple fan boy. I love Microsoft as much as Apple if not more. I sure have made more $$ off of Microsoft than I ever will off of Apple. But if one has an opinion they do. Mine is that for now NFC is not of value to most users and that is why it's not in the iPhone. Simple as that. Could change at any time.

 

[GfPQqmcRKUvP]

Exactly how I feel as well. Very cool feature that has lots of potential but enough to make me switch devices? Certainly not now.

What bewilders me is venom spewed from the Apple apologists against the usefulness of NFC. There are no circumstances where manually reconfiguring your iPhone is easier than using an NFC tag and believing so is pure ignorance. You may not mind doing it manually but it's definitely not easier, period. You may find your battery life acceptable just leaving all of your wireless options on all day--that's fine. It doesn't change the fact that turning them off when not needed WILL improve your battery life, simple fact. Denying this as well just makes you look ignorance and blindly loyal. And I love how these same people will bitch about spending $15 for NFC tags when they've very like spent many times that on things like cases--of which you can only use one at time.

I'm a HUGE Apple fan but the lack of objectivity and blind loyalty of certain fanboys is incredibly aggravating. It's people like you that give Apple fans such a bad reputation.

People like me? What? What did I say that would warrant that last sentence?

 

[matttye]

Funny thing I was haha. It was like the last week of July I believe

Nonetheless, NFC is very hackable.

It's hackable when the screen is turned on, unlocked and somebody is standing within 2cm of the device. How likely is that to happen?

The point is that most people get all the function they need or want with what we have today. They do not see any need for any more than that. Any improvement they need can be provided with the equipment we have today. My point is that NFC is not today for most people.

I'm in this thread to offer the other point of view and because I'm interested in why anyone would care about this technology today. I'm also interested in seeing if someone has thought of a real reason for a truly good use for this technology. So far, the answer for me is no. I could ask why you are in a iPhone forum, as it's clear you are an android user that falls directly into their target market and would never be happy with an iPhone. But I hope that you're curious and open minded enough to try to see the world from some other point of view and see that maybe we have our reasons for our choices. To say that "Form is clearly more important than function for you" to someone who sees things differently does not give me much hope there.

I still say that NFC is not today for most people simply because they don't know what it can do. I assert, again, that anybody who performs repetitive tasks on their phones would have a use for NFC tags. Do you keep on turning your phone on silent and turning notifications off/calls at bed time? You would have a use for an NFC tag! If you reverse those options in the morning, you would have a use for an NFC tag!

For those who turn off their WiFi and Bluetooth when not in use, they have a use for NFC tags!

If you want to let guests know a WiFi or computer password, you could do using an NFC tag (they can be used to simply pop up messages). Due to the short range it could only be accessed by people stood inside the house next to the tag.

If you use an exercise app while you're out running, you could use an NFC tag!

These things can save you a lot of fiddling about and time. You set them up just once in a matter of seconds, then that's it. I actually find my phone more enjoyable when I'm not having to constantly delve into the settings menu to tweak things. Between the Tasker app and NFC tags, everything I do is pretty much automated.

On my iPad it takes a lot longer to change simple settings.

The point I'm trying to make is that these things I've mentioned are only examples. You can set up your own profiles to do what YOU want. If people actually KNEW they could simply scan a tag rather than delve into settings and open various apps, I'm sure they would be interested in the feature. At the moment it's a lack of awareness.

I showed some of my colleagues at work them. They thought it was a futuristic technology, they just didn't have a clue how to use them and had not heard of them before. The fact that people haven't heard of them and don't know what they do doesn't mean they couldn't find a use for them!

The form before function comment was referring to you not wanting to stick something that would save you time to your pretty furniture.

 

[ixodes]

NFC was also hacked big time at the black hat convention. Hackers can walk by and steal everything for your phone. Would not have wanted to be in Vegas that week.

Why spread FUD? Everything can be hacked.

Apples NFC will be very secure.

 

[Oppressed]

That's just a wishful thinking on your part (as well as an attempt to rationalize the fact that your own phone is technically inferior). Apple did not do LTE for so long because they wanted to maximize their profits. LTE being deployed only by Verizon and Apple sticking with one phone model strategy, it made sense for them. In the mean time Verizon customers enjoyed great LTE service using Samsung and Motorola phones with some of these phones having better battery life than iPhone 4S.

Oh I'm sorry I wasn't aware that when LTE first started rolling out that the phones that support the technology had great battery life, we're amazing thin, and the LTE network was in more than a hand full of cities. I mean if that was the case then why upgrade your Samsung or Motorola phone?

To truly innovate, you have to the first in your field to employ new technology. Apple hasn't done this in many years. They just sit back and let others like Samsung and HTC introduce new tech and features, see what works and then add it to their iPhone a year later.

You are essentially making my point. People seem to love to associate the word innovate with Apple, but look at the company as masters of refinement. To be honest none of the technology was invented by Apple, but the way it has been refined and polished is what sells their products. Did Rolex invent the watch? Did Porsche invent the car? Of course not, but their refinement of the products in their field is what makes them famous and profitable. That is what it means to get something right and makes your buyers trust your company.

 

[iregret]

Apple will put NFC chips in their iDevices. When the iPad, iPhone and iPad mini all have NFC, and passbook capabilities, they'll be able to communicate with each other.

The world doesn't yet have an infrastructure to support NFC, apple will help build it and revolutionize small business payments. They'll take square, PayPal and googles iwallet out in one swoop.

 

[matttye]

Why spread FUD? Everything can be hacked.

Apples NFC will be very secure.

Samsung's NFC is VERY secure. NFC on most devices is VERY secure.

With a 2cm range and only transmitting with the screen on and unlocked, somebody would have to steal your information at the exact time you touch the phone to the POS terminal. Slim chance of that happening.

 

[tbayrgs]

People like me? What? What did I say that would warrant that last sentence?

Apologies if you though I was directing it at you, quite the contrary. I thought your statement was spot on, and thus the quote. Consider the rest of my rant completely separate, directed at others (the 'you' in my statemnt was directed at the mentioned fanboys--edited original post for clarification) who tow the Apple party line, so to speak, "if Apple didn't include it, it must not be any good. Everything I'll ever need to do I can do right now, unless Apple tells me it's a useful feature."

 

[Oppressed]

It's hackable when the screen is turned on, unlocked and somebody is standing within 2cm of the device. How likely is that to happen?



I still say that NFC is not today for most people simply because they don't know what it can do. I assert, again, that anybody who performs repetitive tasks on their phones would have a use for NFC tags. Do you keep on turning your phone on silent and turning notifications off/calls at bed time? You would have a use for an NFC tag! If you reverse those options in the morning, you would have a use for an NFC tag!

For those who turn off their WiFi and Bluetooth when not in use, they have a use for NFC tags!

If you want to let guests know a WiFi or computer password, you could do using an NFC tag (they can be used to simply pop up messages). Due to the short range it could only be accessed by people stood inside the house next to the tag.

If you use an exercise app while you're out running, you could use an NFC tag!

These things can save you a lot of fiddling about and time. You set them up just once in a matter of seconds, then that's it. I actually find my phone more enjoyable when I'm not having to constantly delve into the settings menu to tweak things. Between the Tasker app and NFC tags, everything I do is pretty much automated.

On my iPad it takes a lot longer to change simple settings.

The point I'm trying to make is that these things I've mentioned are only examples. You can set up your own profiles to do what YOU want. If people actually KNEW they could simply scan a tag rather than delve into settings and open various apps, I'm sure they would be interested in the feature. At the moment it's a lack of awareness.

I showed some of my colleagues at work them. They thought it was a futuristic technology, they just didn't have a clue how to use them and had not heard of them before. The fact that people haven't heard of them and don't know what they do doesn't mean they couldn't find a use for them!

The form before function comment was referring to you not wanting to stick something that would save you time to your pretty furniture.

This use of NFC technology does have its niche, but at the same time you have to consider the mass market. Do you see the average user sticking these stickers around their home or work? Do you see phone manufactures including a set of these stickers with their phones? Do you think the biggest market for the smart phone will fully take advantage of this feature? To be honest no, and at the same time the majority of the consumer market doesn't utilize a lot of the features of their smart phones. Therefore what pressure is there really to adopt this technology before a company finds a way to present it to consumers so they not only understand it, but use it?

 

[tdar]

Samsung's NFC is VERY secure. NFC on most devices is VERY secure.

With a 2cm range and only transmitting with the screen on and unlocked, somebody would have to steal your information at the exact time you touch the phone to the POS terminal. Slim chance of that happening.

No, How about the person running the POS device? Do you know that most in store theft come from the employees. In US restaurants the number one source of payment fraud is the employees.

 

[matttye]

This use of NFC technology does have its niche, but at the same time you have to consider the mass market. Do you see the average user sticking these stickers around their home or work? Do you see phone manufactures including a set of these stickers with their phones? Do you think the biggest market for the smart phone will fully take advantage of this feature? To be honest no, and at the same time the majority of the consumer market doesn't utilize a lot of the features of their smart phones. Therefore what pressure is there really to adopt this technology before a company finds a way to present it to consumers so they not only understand it, but use it?

I think the masses are unaware it exists. When people are shown the technology by geeky friends, I'm sure they'll see the uses. I showed it to someone I work with (a lawyer). He loves the technology and said he wishes it's available for his Blackberry.. maybe it is, I don't know.

----------

No, How about the person running the POS device? Do you know that most in store theft come from the employees. In US restaurants the number one source of payment fraud is the employees.

Is there a reason they couldn't use existing chip and PIN machines? I don't know if they're hackable so it's a genuine question

 

[kalex]

Then don't buy them. Form is clearly more important than function for you, that's your prerogative. Why are you in this thread? NFC is clearly not for you.

nailed it

 

[tdar]

This use of NFC technology does have its niche, but at the same time you have to consider the mass market. Do you see the average user sticking these stickers around their home or work? Do you see phone manufactures including a set of these stickers with their phones? Do you think the biggest market for the smart phone will fully take advantage of this feature? To be honest no, and at the same time the majority of the consumer market doesn't utilize a lot of the features of their smart phones. Therefore what pressure is there really to adopt this technology before a company finds a way to present it to consumers so they not only understand it, but use it?

Funny story: Before Bill G retired from day to day at Microsoft, he was on the steering group for Office. One day Bill came up with what he thought was a amazing new feature for excel. He sent an email to the prod manager to share this revaluation. He was stunned when he did not hear back from them. So he sent it again. Still no response. He then began to inquire why he could not get a response. Turns out that no one wanted to tell him that his Idea had been in excel for several years now.

This is how smart phones are in the real world. There is for most people much more there than they could ever use. Apple is the master at understanding this and it guides their products.

Quote:mattye
Is there a reason they couldn't use existing chip and PIN machines? I don't know if they're hackable so it's a genuine question

They require the card. Plan to give your card to them? Remember that as we discussed no one is using the contactless thing much anymore. Some of our stores are now asking to see the card after I swipe it, I'm very careful about that. We have seen people set up with iPhones in stores and take pictures and video of people at checkout and get card numbers and pins from that. One other reason people in retail are not running to NFC for payment is many customers are afraid of it. I can not tell you how many people have said to me "i'll never put my credit card data in my phone."
But yes you do have to be afraid of the employees,sadly.

 

[ethana]

Apple won't implement NFC until it can do it in a way that will immediately get everyone to mass adopt it in a simple and easy way.

People don't know how or where to buy NFC tags. They don't want to "program" them.. that confuses people. They want something built in, easy to use, where you don't have to think about it, etc.

If you want NFC now, and tweaking is your thing, get an Android phone. In fact, you can do ALL KINDS of cool things with Android. But you also lose that simpleness of the iPhone. If you want a phone to just use without thinking about how to make things work, get an iPhone.

There are tradeoffs and Apple doesn't like to compromise against the common man/woman. The iPhone is for the common person... that is what it's been sold at from DAY 1. NFC just isn't there yet for the everyday Joe.

 

[Oppressed]

I think the masses are unaware it exists. When people are shown the technology by geeky friends, I'm sure they'll see the uses. I showed it to someone I work with (a lawyer). He loves the technology and said he wishes it's available for his Blackberry.. maybe it is, I don't know.

Was he so interested that he ran out to buy a NFC phone, order the stickers on Amazon, and download the app? Or was his response more like "that's cool and I can see how that's useful, but it's not a world changer"? If it was the latter then it is the same reason why Apple didn't put it in their phone. Now if and when Apple comes out with a way to make it so that person can buy the iPhone, go to settings and tell it when and where to toggle the settings without stickers he will think it is amazing and innovative. Did Apple invent this technology or feature? Nope, but they refined it to a point where the majority of the people can enjoy it. It might not be for years and everyone will claim they are "catching up", but it is what they do.

 

[matttye]

Was he so interested that he ran out to buy a NFC phone, order the stickers on Amazon, and download the app? Or was his response more like "that's cool and I can see how that's useful, but it's not a world changer"? If it was the latter then it is the same reason why Apple didn't put it in their phone. Now if and when Apple comes out with a way to make it so that person can buy the iPhone, go to settings and tell it when and where to toggle the settings without stickers he will think it is amazing and innovative. Did Apple invent this technology or feature? Nope, but they refined it to a point where the majority of the people can enjoy it. It might not be for years and everyone will claim they are "catching up", but it is what they do.

Nope. Nobody is going to run out and buy a new phone for NFC alone. That would be silly! Especially when his work phone is provided free of charge He asked about the cost of the stickers and whether they'd work with his blackberry.

NFC tags are not the same as what you posted towards the end of your post. NFC tags can have a shared purpose such as logging into a WiFi network, checking into a tourist attraction, etc., that more than one person can benefit from.

 

[MVPinFLA]

DrQ,
Thanks for posting starting this thread and posting a most informative video about NFC. I didn't realize all the possibilities and will look forward to them when they are available for iPhone. I do believe that by the time Apple puts this into iOS devices, I bet that they will implement it in a way that we won't want to live without it.

 

[iMaconApple]

sooner or later iphone will get it...this passport stuff on iOS 6/iP5 is a hint..NFC is not used a lot everywhere yet..scanners are the most used..i have not really used my NFC on my GS3 but its nice to have

 

[iEnvy]

It's hackable when the screen is turned on, unlocked and somebody is standing within 2cm of the device. How likely is that to happen?



I still say that NFC is not today for most people simply because they don't know what it can do. I assert, again, that anybody who performs repetitive tasks on their phones would have a use for NFC tags. Do you keep on turning your phone on silent and turning notifications off/calls at bed time? You would have a use for an NFC tag! If you reverse those options in the morning, you would have a use for an NFC tag!

For those who turn off their WiFi and Bluetooth when not in use, they have a use for NFC tags!

If you want to let guests know a WiFi or computer password, you could do using an NFC tag (they can be used to simply pop up messages). Due to the short range it could only be accessed by people stood inside the house next to the tag.

If you use an exercise app while you're out running, you could use an NFC tag!

These things can save you a lot of fiddling about and time. You set them up just once in a matter of seconds, then that's it. I actually find my phone more enjoyable when I'm not having to constantly delve into the settings menu to tweak things. Between the Tasker app and NFC tags, everything I do is pretty much automated.

On my iPad it takes a lot longer to change simple settings.

The point I'm trying to make is that these things I've mentioned are only examples. You can set up your own profiles to do what YOU want. If people actually KNEW they could simply scan a tag rather than delve into settings and open various apps, I'm sure they would be interested in the feature. At the moment it's a lack of awareness.

I showed some of my colleagues at work them. They thought it was a futuristic technology, they just didn't have a clue how to use them and had not heard of them before. The fact that people haven't heard of them and don't know what they do doesn't mean they couldn't find a use for them!

The form before function comment was referring to you not wanting to stick something that would save you time to your pretty furniture.

Subway?

 

[kdarling]

No, How about the person running the POS device? Do you know that most in store theft come from the employees. In US restaurants the number one source of payment fraud is the employees.

Sure, partly because all they have to do is write down the info on a credit card in order to steal and use it online. You can't do that with NFC.

It's hackable when the screen is turned on, unlocked and somebody is standing within 2cm of the device. How likely is that to happen?

Moreover, all that "hack" (not really) from the Black Hat conference does is allow a website to open. It's just a URL exchange.

So you'd have to have your phone turned on, unlocked AND not notice someone bump a gizmo against your phone, AND not notice that all of a sudden your browser opens to a page you've never seen before, with a "click me" download link on it, AND you click on it for some dumb reason AND then for another dumb reason, go find the downloaded file afterwards, AND click on AND agree to install it. Whew.

I assert, again, that anybody who performs repetitive tasks on their phones would have a use for NFC tags.

Some people here have commented that non-techies, who could make the most use of NFC tags for repetitive tasks, would be the least likely to go through even the simple steps of setting them up.

I tend to agree. However, that does not negate their usefulness at all. If anything, it makes them ten times MORE useful.

It simply means that someone else has to set them up... no different from any other simple setup where users would ask someone else for help.

In the case of my my son-in-law, setting up the NFC tasks has been his job, but it afterwards made both his life and that of his wife's much easier.

Upshot: It doesn't matter who sets it up, as long as it brings joy to the end user, and is one less thing the main "support person" in a family has to do all the time. Instead of explaining again how to go into a certain mode at home or in the car, they can just set up a tag to do that task for the other users.

 

[matttye]

Subway?

Possible I guess. They still wouldn't be able to steal financial information though.

The worst thing someone could do is launch an app or website. Of course you always have the option of just disabling nfc while you're on the subway.

There's no realistic basis for concern here.