No Apple TV Refresh at Next Week's Media Event?

[gugy]

Well i don't know where you hang out, but almost no one I know turns their machines off.

I am a professional user and every night before I go to sleep I turn it off, unless I am rendering something overnight. I know many people who do the same.
Also, I think it's good to start the computer everyday to avoid many issues that arise when you have your machine on at all times. Just the way I see it.

But, I do know people who do never turn off their gear. I just think is a waste of energy IMHO.

 

[adbe]

I was referring to the quotes I quoted in the post you quoted.

My brain must have gone for a walk and forgot to tell the rest of me. Mea culpa.

The AppleTV being locked into iTunes is its biggest shortcoming. Imagine an iPod that could only play iTunes purchased music. It would never be close to where it is today.

As I said elsewhere though, it's a different market though. You have an expandable multi-codec AppleTV. It's called the Mini. If I tried to explain to my wife why she needs to be able to played ripped DVDs, or whatever, she'd just stare at me like I'm daft (which given the above, I might well be).

The AppleTV needs to be the best media playing hardware available on the market, with things like 1080p capabilities, DVR, and Apps. That's what will make it sell.

Does it?

1080p I'll give you, though I doubt iTunes will be going 1080p any time soon, and for that reason I can see exactly why Apple probably don't want to go there.

DVR? From what? The ATV doesn't have a tuner.

Apps? Well there's a whole new game. I doubt the model would be as successful as the iPhone store though. You don't have the touch control, or the millions of installed units enticing developers. RSS tickers, weather, and newsfeed style apps could certainly extend the unit in interesting ways. UI clutter I guess will be an issue for Apple to deal with.

By locking it to iTunes, they're handicapping it's potential.

Probably, but Apple I think are scared of being commoditized out of the market. If they help build NetFlix into the iTunes of video, then they leave themselves in a vulnerable place.

By opening it up, iTMS stands to gain quite a bit, just like the iPod did for it. For Apple, selling somebody else's TV show doesn't make them any money, but selling the hardware it plays on does. Make the hardware and let the content creators fend for themselves.

Alternatively, if iTunes just had a decent selection, *and* subscription models, there'd be less need for NetFlix support.

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

What idiot pays for something that is free? (I'm not talking about those folks collecting their favorite shows) The major networks are allowing free viewing of their TV shows OTA and on the internet. Why in the world would you want to pay for a device then pay for content that's already FREE? It makes no sense. Apple's in it for the hardware and not the content. Get it straight.

So why don't they open up the device then? They are not going to do that unless they stop selling tv shows on the iTMS. I'm not saying people should pay for it, but you have to understand that 90% of computer users are not very inteligent. They don't know how things work, they don't know how to set up a media server and download content and stream it via plex or something to their tv. Most people pay for the download on itunes, and then the apple tv offers a simple solution for non tech people to get it to their tvs. The ATV is not designed to do what you want it to, and you aren't going to see it do that either. Apple is not going to give up the profit that they make off of movie and tv sales so that you can stream hulu. If you want to stream hulu, there are plenty of other devices that will do it wonderfully. If you are going to spend $220 on a 40gb atv, why don't you buy a 120gb PS3 for $299. For only $80 more, you can play almost any codec, almost any bitrate, much better sound quality, still stream all of your pics, music, etc, and you can play games, have an internet browser, etc. Or build your own htpc. The atv is not designed to be a htpc, it is designed to allow people to stream media from their computers to their tvs with a simple interface so grandma can figure it out.

 

[adbe]

...

Imagine you were a family of 4, with 3 bedrooms, a family room, and a tv in your basement. Now lets say that you have a measly 1 tb of media (pics, hd videos, music, etc.) What sounds more cost effective to you, buying a 1tb storage drive for each room (5 total) or buying 1 1tb hdd and running a media server and streaming the media to any room in the house that you want to. Not to mention, say you get a new dvd and rip it to your computer. If you wanted each hard drive to have the dvd you would have to copy it which is time consuming. If you stream the media you rip it once and anyone can access it.

Good god, you're obtuse.

That's a fascinating case study, but where exactly does it make using my PC a better choice than an iTunes server running on a low power device like the AEBS?

Please at least try to read the posts to which you are responding.

 

[AidenShaw]

You are a dumbass....

Burton - please check the forum rules.

Calling other forum members names is not permitted.

You can say that "that's a dumbass idea", but "you are a dumbass" crosses the line into a personal attack.

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

I am a professional user and every night before I go to sleep I turn it off, unless I am rendering something overnight. I know many people who do the same.
Also, I think it's good to start the computer everyday to avoid many issues that arise when you have your machine on at all times. Just the way I see it.

But, I do know people who do never turn off their gear. I just think is a waste of energy IMHO.

Very well, i would probably guess that it is split, but there are a lot of people who leave computers on all the time, or at least during the day while they are awake. You don't need the computer to be on at night while you are sleeping as nobody is going to be streaming anything

As far as wasted energy, give me a break. When a computer is sleeping it uses essentially no energy. You would save more money by adjusting your ac by 1 degree than you would by turning off a computer rather than putting it to sleep.

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

Good god, you're obtuse.

That's a fascinating case study, but where exactly does it make using my PC a better choice than an iTunes server running on a low power device like the AEBS?

Please at least try to read the posts to which you are responding.

Do you not read, you would save MONEY by running 1 server than by having multiple 1 tb apple tvs in your house. Why do you think businesses set up servers? It costs a lot less to set up a 1tb home server than it would to set up a 1tb machine in every room. If you don't understand that setting up 1 server is cheaper than 4 or 5 or more individual machines then you can go ahead and set up your 1tb atvs

 

[adbe]

Do you not read, you would save MONEY by running 1 server than by having multiple 1 tb apple tvs in your house.

*thunk*

Please, do try to keep up!

Find for me where I advocated running multiple AppleTVs all loaded with huge hard drives.

If you don't understand that setting up 1 server is cheaper than 4 or 5 or more individual machines then you can go ahead and set up your 1tb atvs

Trust me on this: I'm not the one having comprehension difficulties here.

 

[gugy]

As far as wasted energy, give me a break.

You need to calm down a bit on your replies. If you have a company and have several machines on at all times (even when sleeping), I bet your electric bill will be very nice.
Also, as I sensible person, having stuff off when you are not using it is the right thing to do for several reasons.

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

You need to calm down a bit on your replies. If you have a company and have several machines on at all times (even when sleeping), I bet your electric bill will be very nice.
Also, as I sensible person, having stuff off when you are not using it is the right thing to do for several reasons.

here check out this link which will show you that a computer in sleep mode uses 1-6 watts. So even having 10 computers left on in sleep mode (more than any household really needs) would only use 10-60 watts of electricity. Less than leaving 1 machine on.

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

*thunk*

Please, do try to keep up!

Find for me where I advocated running multiple AppleTVs all loaded with huge hard drives.



Trust me on this: I'm not the one having comprehension difficulties here.

here check this link out. Your ATV uses 15 watts in standby mode, and about 20 watts when running.

In comparison, a mac mini would use ~1-5 watts in standby mode (which can be anytime you aren't watching a movie) and probably around the same 25-30watts when you are streaming content. You aren't saving any energy bro. In fact, the atv probably uses more energy because it's always on.

 

[Tilpots]

My brain must have gone for a walk and forgot to tell the rest of me. Mea culpa.

Ha! I had to check to make sure I actually quoted the stuff I thought I quoted!

As I said elsewhere though, it's a different market though. You have an expandable multi-codec AppleTV. It's called the Mini. If I tried to explain to my wife why she needs to be able to played ripped DVDs, or whatever, she'd just stare at me like I'm daft (which given the above, I might well be).

The mini is a bit of overkill though for many folks. I agree that the mini's a much better media device at the moment, but the ATV has the potential to do it all, and better.

Does it?

1080p I'll give you, though I doubt iTunes will be going 1080p any time soon, and for that reason I can see exactly why Apple probably don't want to go there.

DVR? From what? The ATV doesn't have a tuner.

iTMS doesn't have to be the source of the 1080p content. Think about all the people who have home video cams that shoot this format. They have to convert their home movies just to get it to play. And there's more and more 1080p content available everyday from all types of sources.

As for the tuner, it's one of the much needed improvements. I'm paying the cable company good money just to get a DVR. And if a company like Elgato can make a thumb drive sized stick to turn the mini into a DVR, than Apple should certainly be able to build a tuner in.

Apps? Well there's a whole new game. I doubt the model would be as successful as the iPhone store though. You don't have the touch control, or the millions of installed units enticing developers. RSS tickers, weather, and newsfeed style apps could certainly extend the unit in interesting ways. UI clutter I guess will be an issue for Apple to deal with.

Sure, all the iPhone Apps wouldn't necessarily translate to the ATV, but give it the ability to run apps, and there's no telling what could be developed specifically for it.

So why don't they open up the device then?

Who knows? They're missing a major oppurtunity to dominate the living room.

They are not going to do that unless they stop selling tv shows on the iTMS. I'm not saying people should pay for it, but you have to understand that 90% of computer users are not very inteligent. They don't know how things work, they don't know how to set up a media server and download content and stream it via plex or something to their tv. Most people pay for the download on itunes, and then the apple tv offers a simple solution for non tech people to get it to their tvs.

More features doesn't make it more complicated. It's all in the UI, which Apple is typically pretty good at.

The ATV is not designed to do what you want it to, and you aren't going to see it do that either. Apple is not going to give up the profit that they make off of movie and tv sales so that you can stream hulu. If you want to stream hulu, there are plenty of other devices that will do it wonderfully. If you are going to spend $220 on a 40gb atv, why don't you buy a 120gb PS3 for $299. For only $80 more, you can play almost any codec, almost any bitrate, much better sound quality, still stream all of your pics, music, etc, and you can play games, have an internet browser, etc. Or build your own htpc. The atv is not designed to be a htpc, it is designed to allow people to stream media from their computers to their tvs with a simple interface so grandma can figure it out.

The above is exactly why AppleTV is a failure.

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

Who knows? They're missing a major oppurtunity to dominate the living room.



More features doesn't make it more complicated. It's all in the UI, which Apple is typically pretty good at.



The above is exactly why AppleTV is a failure.

Okay, well in 2008 an estimated 10% of apples revenue came from the iTMS. Do you think that they are going to give up that 10% by allowing you to stream from pandora, last.fm, hulu, etc.? THink about it from a business standpoint. Apple would rather not sell ATV's than they would loose their profit margins.

 

[Tilpots]

Okay, well in 2008 an estimated 10% of apples revenue came from the iTMS. Do you think that they are going to give up that 10% by allowing you to stream from pandora, last.fm, hulu, etc.? THink about it from a business standpoint. Apple would rather not sell ATV's than they would loose their profit margins.

Dude. According to your estimates, 90% of Apple's revenue came from hardware. Apple would rather sell more AppleTV's.

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

Dude. According to your estimates, 90% of Apple's revenue came from hardware. Apple would rather sell more AppleTV's.

umm apple sells other software as well, aperture, final cut, osx, etc. And those estimates are after apple pays back the music studios, takes out a cut for advertising, servers etc. 10% of their total yearly profit is from iTunes, they are not going to jeopardize that.

 

[adbe]

The mini is a bit of overkill though for many folks. I agree that the mini's a much better media device at the moment, but the ATV has the potential to do it all, and better.

I doubt it'll ever do it all though. If you draw a line with "all" at one end, and "you are here" at the other, there's a lot of white space that the ATV could, and perhaps should be inhabiting. The further you move towards "all" though, the further the device gets from its basic Apple premise "do one thing and do it well".

iTMS doesn't have to be the source of the 1080p content. Think about all the people who have home video cams that shoot this format. They have to convert their home movies just to get it to play. And there's more and more 1080p content available everyday from all types of sources.

Here's the thing. I totally agree that 1080p is needed, if for no other reason than because its a bad checkbox to leave un-ticked on the side of the package. If I were Apple though, I'd be dreading the inevitable lawsuit from the clown that claims he was ripped off because his 1080p device can't actually receive 1080p content from Apple.

As for the tuner, it's one of the much needed improvements. I'm paying the cable company good money just to get a DVR. And if a company like Elgato can make a thumb drive sized stick to turn the mini into a DVR, than Apple should certainly be able to build a tuner in.

Yeah, but they need to make one for each and every market. Even excluding CableCard, which really *is* a bag of hurt, OTA is different in every market, and Apple don't normally seem to like playing that game.

 

[compuguy1088]

I was in walmart last week and they have a linksys wireless N router for $49

The real question is, is it single band, or dual band? 5 ghz may not have as good range/wall penetration, but it's a nice option. The other question is? can you load DD-Wrt on it!

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

The real question is, is it single band, or dual band? 5 ghz may not have as good range/wall penetration, but it's a nice option. The other question is? can you load DD-Wrt on it!

it was the wrt110n or whatever that model is. So i am pretty sure it's dual band, idk about ddwrt though.

 

[gugy]

here check out this link which will show you that a computer in sleep mode uses 1-6 watts. So even having 10 computers left on in sleep mode (more than any household really needs) would only use 10-60 watts of electricity. Less than leaving 1 machine on.

That's fair, is not much for a consumer level machine.
But the point is, many people do not want to have their machines on at all times in order to stream content to AppleTV. Also, lot's of folks have laptops and if they leave the house, the folks who stay there are out of the luck if they want to access that content. That's why I believe Apple needs to come up with a solution to unchain AppleTV from the computer. Either by adding external support for drives or by creating a iTunes server working seamless with AEBS/time capsule.

 

[Tilpots]

I doubt it'll ever do it all though. If you draw a line with "all" at one end, and "you are here" at the other, there's a lot of white space that the ATV could, and perhaps should be inhabiting. The further you move towards "all" though, the further the device gets from its basic Apple premise "do one thing and do it well".

I just see the "one thing" as being a media device. I think it needs to replace just about every other box connected to my TV. I hear what you're saying, but I believe other boxes being sold right now are getting it done and I'm dissappointed that Apple hasn't progressed very far in the years since the ATV was introduced.

Here's the thing. I totally agree that 1080p is needed, if for no other reason than because its a bad checkbox to leave un-ticked on the side of the package. If I were Apple though, I'd be dreading the inevitable lawsuit from the clown that claims he was ripped off because his 1080p device can't actually receive 1080p content from Apple.

Yeah, but they need to make one for each and every market. Even excluding CableCard, which really *is* a bag of hurt, OTA is different in every market, and Apple don't normally seem to like playing that game.

Not necessarily, especially CableCard. They'd be the alternative to cable, so no need to accommodate the cable industry. OTA is different in many countries, and I know Apple likes to make one-size fits all hardware, but in the US and Japan, two major markets, ATSC is the standard. Make a UK and Chinese version available, and you've covered a vast majority of your market share.

Now the alternative to a DVR is to offer an a la carte - on demand subscription service for TV shows, but it's late and I'm going to bed, so I'm not going to get into this tonight...

 

[MacFly123]

LOL! You really shouldn't rely on rumors (or worse, analyst opinions) on decisions like that.

Agree completely. I've never filled my 40GB AppleTV up... and if I did, it's hard-wired to the network and streaming works flawlessly from my iMac, MacBook, and Mini. I don't really understand people who care about the size of the drive in the existing AppleTV.

How are you streaming? I have the 160 GB and I would love as big as I can get because I don't wanna have my MacBook Pro on with iTunes open just to watch a movie all the time!

I believe that they won't update on the 9th, but please update sooon Apple! You said you were going to continue to invest in it. So lets see the fruits.

 

[Heilage]

But they don't want to do that. Apple knows people want codec support, but apple would rather you buy content from iTunes, so they are going to cripple the device. You also have to think that the majority of people still don't really know much about computers. Some people can only use word and access the internet, these are the kinds of people Apple is targeting. The apple tv is not meant to be used by nerdy gadget lovers who want to do all sorts of fancy ripping and streaming of hd content. I would say that at least 85% of computer owners wouldn't even understand how to convert between different codecs, so they aren't going to be ripping and playing their own dvds.

I'll just give someone else my money then.

 

[cmendill]

Way to dream big. I bet you like your sandwiches without the meat, vegetables and spreads. Nothing but the bread for you big boy!

By dreaming big, you mean wishing for technologies that your average cable company has considered standard for years. I think maybe you missed my point. I'd like apple to lead the charge to end the use of physical media for video. I'd like to see Apple do for video what it did for music. Rolleyes!

 

[Tilpots]

By dreaming big, you mean wishing for technologies that your average cable company has considered standard for years. I think maybe you missed my point. I'd like apple to lead the charge to end the use of physical media for video. I'd like to see Apple do for video what it did for music. Rolleyes!

How is OTA or cable video physical media? Anyway, I completely understood what you were saying. You're satisfied to pay for programming you could be getting for free. You're satisfied with lower quality than what's available. And you don't want the AppleTV to have a CD/DVD/Blu-Ray Drive so you'll be forced to buy yet another piece of equipment to watch the majority of content available today. Sure, I get it. Hear you loud and clear.

 

[hiimamac]

The Apple TV has HDMI.

I agree though that the Apple TV is a dinosaur in Apple's lineup. It needs serious improvements.

true but none if their monitors do and I can rent a cable box that outputs hdmi and record 720 or 1080i and it plays blue Ray resolution but the real key is how do you explain renting movies from iTunes when you get them free in ABC or if the argument it owning, it's cheaper to buy the box set not rent them one by one. Apple TV is very limited by design so it won't eat away at iTunes but the truth is, make the atv like a dvr that can also stream. The money the lose in iTunes sales, they make up with upgraded atv, but won't happen.