No NFC Payment System in iPhone 5, Pushed to iPhone 6?

[CMMac]

NFC the next big thing for iphone?

Really, everyone is waiting for the new iPhone 5 for NFC?

Not that I have any expert knowledge of NFC, but I'm sure I watched a TV program where they showed a guy who had a device in a sholder bag and was able to read other peoples credit card info while standing in crowded areas by waving his bag by their pockets. If that is due to NFC technology then I could care less if its on the iPhone.

 

[beebler]

NFC seems like a dangerous technology to adopt. Especially if your phone gets lost or stolen. Add that to the fact that there is really no widespread adoption of NFC in the US yet. Not really a selling point for me, and I'm willing to bet it's not either for most of the general public.

But Apple doesn't only sell in the US. NFC is used in Asia and Europe. In places like Japan, it's in regular phones as well as a range of the booming smartphones now...which run Android, by the way.

 

[RobQuads]

It has nothing to do with Apple. This is not like buying something through iTunes...

All comes down to the implementation. They could put in a NFC chip for payment which is linked to your itunes account - this would then give them A LOT of valuable data they could sell on etc
or
contract out the payment side to something like visa

No-one knows how its going to work one way or the other.

 

[triceretops]

What's the point

As long as I can turn this feature off so it doesn't suck any power or transmit any data I don't want transmitted, I don't care if it is included or not.

 

[Rocketman]

NFC is YA radio protocol. Why not do NFC ish stuff over Bluetooth or Wifi or even voice cell rather than one more thing. The iPad doen't even implement FM which is included free on its Broadcom chip.

You can now get your brain around several protocols co-existing over Thunderbolt, such as ethernet, USB, firewire, HDMI, DVI, and others. Why not NFC protocols over BT or WiFi?

Rocketman

 

[CMMac]

Don't care either way

As long as I can turn this feature off so it doesn't suck any power or transmit any data I don't want transmitted, I don't care if it is included or not.

I really don't care either way too - as long as it can be disabled. I just think there are a lot of people going overboard in saying this is a must need feature for the next iphone and it may not be that secure.

Give me more storage space and better cameras and battery life if possible - thats really all I care about. Thunderbolt would be a great plus but doubt it would be on the next iPhone.

 

[cmaier]

Public transit is what drove adoption of the "osaifu keitai" (literally "wallet phone") in Japan.

It won't be Apple Store retail (which is what some of the idiots here postulate). Many US metro areas have transit systems that are using NFC payment systems. They don't need to think about someone in Salina, KS trying to buy a pack of cigarettes at the minimart. They want all of NYC to use NFC for the subway, they want the iPhone to function as the Clipper Card in the SF Bay Area.

And movie/concert/sports ticket, and boarding pass, and business card, etc.

 

[Nuvi]

But Apple doesn't only sell in the US. NFC is used in Asia and Europe. In places like Japan, it's in regular phones as well as a range of the booming smartphones now...which run Android, by the way.

NFC as credit card payment system is not catching on well in Europe. On the other hand NFC payment systems for transit etc. are doing great. It seems people want to keep credit cards separate from small / micro payment systems and in all honesty I don't blame them.

 

[Starflyer]

Is Apple planning on taking a 30% cut of any transactions when a person decides to wave their iPhone rather than debit card?

I see what you did there.

 

[RogueWarrior65]

So why doesn't Apple "invent" the standard?

Apple is arguably one of the most influential companies/brands in the world. iPhones and iPads sell like hotcakes. So why doesn't Apple embrace some format/protocol/interim standard and MAKE it the industry standard by virtue of popularity? Recall VHS vs. Betamax. (Yes, not the best example) Apple could move forward with something and the rest of the industry would likely follow.

Of course there is a different way of looking at it. By not including/delaying some feature in the iPhone 5 gives Apple some low-hanging fruit as-it-were to add to the iPhone 6.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Really, everyone is waiting for the new iPhone 5 for NFC?

Not that I have any expert knowledge of NFC, but I'm sure I watched a TV program where they showed a guy who had a device in a sholder bag and was able to read other peoples credit card info while standing in crowded areas by waving his bag by their pockets. If that is due to NFC technology then I could care less if its on the iPhone.

I would assume the NFC chip in a phone could be reprogrammed on the fly so it could store multiple cards in the phone but it only programs the chip when you select the card and the rest of the time in standby mode it is some random string that is completely worthless all that scan would get is a string of useless numbers thank link to nothing.

NFC seems like a dangerous technology to adopt. Especially if your phone gets lost or stolen. Add that to the fact that there is really no widespread adoption of NFC in the US yet. Not really a selling point for me, and I'm willing to bet it's not either for most of the general public.

Well NFC needs a huge overhaul for the credit card industry since right now I could steal you info with a very basic scanner. They need to double encrypt it and make sure if you got the info off the chip it can not be used for anything at the very least not contain the cc number and name on it.

What they could do is give the phone some number to store for it NFC chip that links the 2. Mix it with the phone reprograming its chip for multiple cards that could be useful and if your phone is stolen they could kill the NFC numbers linked to the phone but not you CC.

 

[Mackan]

Probably was a last second "polish" by Steve. Beef the iPhone up with available tech, then strip it down a bit so they can put it in iPhone 6... making people upgrade, again. It's all so predictable.

 

[Kissaragi]

No big deal in the UK, very few places use it yet.

Probably was a last second "polish" by Steve. Beef the iPhone up with available tech, then strip it down a bit so they can put it in iPhone 6... making people upgrade, again. It's all so predictable.

Keep on drinking that crazy juice....

 

[Starflyer]

So, I wonder what is the compelling feature for iPhone 5? For iPhone 3GS users, if it has everything the iPhone 4 has + A5 processor + 1GB RAM + maybe even 64GB of internal memory. Maybe even a megapixel upgrade or 1080p video?

However, if that is the case it is not compelling for iPhone 4 users to upgrade.

White

 

[camelsnot]

it turns out APple is coming up with their own competing NFC so billing will go through Apple whereby they get a cut of each purchase (using someone's credit card) on an apple device.

Leave it to $teve Job$ and his cronies to figure out how to make more money, instead of joining the alliance for the current NFC already being rolled out. Karma.. a b****.

 

[cmaier]

it turns out APple is coming up with their own competing NFC so billing will go through Apple whereby they get a cut of each purchase (using someone's credit card) on an apple device.

Leave it to $teve Job$ and his cronies to figure out how to make more money, instead of joining the alliance for the current NFC already being rolled out. Karma.. a b****.

Because the "alliance" isn't in it to make more money?

 

[Kevin098]

Unless NFC allows me to pay for my McDonald's meal, Starbucks coffee, and Chevron Gas (my favorite gasoline/petrol in the US) there's really no need for NFC at the moment. I even disabled it on my Nexus S. Its stupid of Apple not to include it in the iPhone 5 because when NFC gets standardized by the time iPhone 6 comes out The iphone 5 would also take advantage of it. But Apple loves milking its iSheep.

 

[Starflyer]

EDIT: Completely OT but I bet we will not see iPhone 5 in 2011. I'll put my money on "iPhone 4S" with A5, 64GB, same form factor, higher mega pixel, some apps only running with A5 and so on. 2012 will be the year of iPhone 5.

I dont think we will ever see another iPhone "S" model. I think apple did that so that the iPhone version and iOS version would be the same.

 

[Starflyer]

iLeave it to $teve Job$ and his cronies to figure out how to make more money,

Yeah I know, you would think that Apple was a for-profit company or something.

 

[bassfingers]

NFC was the only reason why I was going to be upgrading to the iPhone 5 (and the only thing missing from the iPhone 4), dang it, now I have to wait until 2012 to upgrade.

boo Apple, the next iPhone is going to be an epic fail.

It's an epic fail bc you can't pay for things with your phone? Bc that's so different than using a credit card? Bc that's make or break awesome vs. fail? disagree

 

[Veinticinco]

NFC? A very nice-to-have if not quite a must-have.

Commonplace here in Europe for a while now, and used in some form another in most major centres. So Apple ought really to get on board regardless of the erstwhile Luddite state of consumer technology in the US.

What saddens me more is the rationale given - that Apple are essentially waiting to see which way the wind blows. Where once (long ago) they led the way, when revolution was king and the word 'evolution' a dirty euphemism made by their beancounters. No more.

It's the same with Blu-ray. It's not that there is some gargantuan technological hurdle to be overcome (ooh I dunno, like painting something white, for example ), the tech is already out there. Just requires the will and intent of one or two decision-makers at Cupertino to make it happen. There are 8-year old Nokia handsets out there with a 'wallet' type feature enabled. Nobody used it of course, but they put it there anyway.

There's now very good reason why Apple unlike almost all of its peers do not have a public roadmap for its hardware and specs. Because that would reveal the sad truth that the company has realised and fully embraced the old adage "keep them wanting more" with arms, lips, and let's be honest, a bit of tongue too. Drip-feed the masses, eke out product improvements, why do it for 2.0 when we can hold it back for 3.0 mentality, *just* enough to keep neighbours in their place, market the hell out of everything, and to quote a certain sad act, they're winning. No wonder Jonny Ive has become weary at finding himself backed up at the crank end of the sausage-making machine.

I still buy Apple products, albeit a lot more discerningly of late. But the day has long since gone when I get truly excited about new launches or admire the company in any sense whatsoever.

 

[charlituna]

That wasn't the case with the RAM update in the iPad to iPhone 4 transition, or gyroscope, or FaceTime. iPhone 5 may have NFC still.

Yep. The RUMOR that they were including it has been negated by a RUMOR that they are not which will be followed up by another RUMOR that they are, but only a modified version (think like the Starbucks app) followed by a RUMOR that no they mean the 'real' thing and then a RUMOR that it will only work in certain countries or not for banking stuff and so on

Well damn. I wonder how Apple would make an Itunes pay system work? I doubt any business would agree to give Apple 30% on their charges.

Assuming they would force transactions to go through iTunes etc. It is possible they would not. They might not even be considering that notion. Or even the notion of a fee of any kind.

Same with the carriers, why would ATT demand or deserve a cut of a transaction done with hardware on. Phone they didn't build that happens to run on their network, but isn't transmitting anything on the network during said transaction. That would be like saying ATT gets a cut of my gas bill cause I scheduled the payment using my 3G iPad (although I don't have 3G activated right now)

 

[tigress666]

Disposable and re-usable NFC card systems have been alive and well in many countries in the Euro Zone, East Asia, Hong Kong...

I think his point is though that those countries aren't ruled by the banks/credit companies who don't want things to be secure because that would discourage people from using the cards as much. In America the system would not be safe because we don't do anything here to really secure these transactions because that's not in the interest of the credit card companies.

Other countries actually bother to try to regulate things so they are more secure. In America? We still rely on signatures to verify it's you, for example (do you really think that sales clerk being paid minimum wage has training in signature recognition)? Where as I know in England they've encouraged merchants to require pin numbers for credit cards. Which yes, still things can happen but it's still a helluva lot more secure than here (where sometimes these days you don't even need to show any proof!!!).

I mean the credit companies don't have any interest in preventing thieves. They've pretty much got it here so that they don't pay much for thievery anyways (The merchant eats the cost if a thief uses the card, and yet the credit card company tells the merchant they can't do stuff like at least require ID to use that card). When my ID was stolen one of the cards told me they thought the application was fishy (but they apparently went ahead and let the guy get a card and transfer 15k of debt onto it!). The cards find it is cheaper on them to make it easy for thieves in order to make it easier for people to get a card and use it.

I mean Chase is now whining that they might have to limit all debit transactions to 50 dollars because the government is limiting transaction fees (how dare the government actually regulate us and keep us in check)! Why? Because those fees help cover the random fraudelant charges (yep, they want to charge higher to cover the thievery rather than... oh, making it harder for thieves? Oh wait, that might discourage people from using their cards if they have to make things more secure. Instead we'll just limit their spending amount in order to spread FUD to try to convince the public to put pressure on the government to do things *our* way. Because it is not in banks' best interest to make transactions more secure).

 

[charlituna]

Give Apple another year and they'll have the trust of 300mm credit card holders. Then they buy a bank and become Apple Credit Inc!

Yep, just like they bought out the cable companies, the ISPs and let's not forget those cell phone carriers.

Folks are getting riled up over rumors of a tech that may not be included at all and assumptions that Apple wants to be involved in the transactions. How about instead everyone takes a serious chill and just waits for the facts. There are uses for NFC that don't involve your bank account. That could be why Apple is perhaps maybe looking at the tech. Nothing more. If they are looking at all. Wait and see. But don't give yourself an ulcer and a coronary over a rumor

Unfortunately this isn't possible since iTunes accounts are tied to credit cards.

Except for the ones that don't. My account for example does not have and has never had a credit card on file. It was started with a gift card and is updated with gift cards. My nieces and nephews all have accounts that were created via the allowance system, so no credit card. And the ones who are adults now update with gift cards.

Visa/MC and the rest get their fees from every iTunes purchase you make.

But that isn't a fee to you. It is a fee to Apple same as all stores that take credit cards. Yes a handful of douche bag places make you pay the fee if you are under a certain balance etc, but Apple has never pulled that move. You pay cost plus sales tax if local law requires. Nothing more.

All NFC is doing is changing the format of how the number is received. No different than say the start using barcodes or QR images rather than magnetic strips.

 

[Reach9]

Well this is a sad rumor. I hope it isn't true!

What else could Apple market for the next iPhone, apart from just speed? I hope iOS 5 won't be a disappointment either, or else i'm jumping ship.