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No special event for this year?
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I didn't know there were still people that defended the butterfly keyboard. Even Apple isn't defending it anymore.
Well, Apple stands behind the keyboard with a 4 year warranty. Which puts pressure on them to make it right if there are problems down the road.
Honestly, I get that these keyboards have been a problem for Apple and their customers. I am simply asking if they have finally turned the corner on this thing with the latest fix. If so, there really is no reason to make a change to scissor keyboards.
But we don’t know if it is fixed. We don’t have that data. Apple likely has testing data of prolonged usage in lab settings. So, if they are changing it’s likely that data shows it’s still not great. Plus there is the simple PR issue that this computer was releasedand put on an extended repair program from day 1. They have lost consumer trust. Both of those things are reasons to change.
The fact that Apple includes the 2019 MacBook Pros in the keyboard repair program tells you what they believe about their reliability.
If Apple wanted to give confidence to buyers, as some have suggested, one unambiguous sentence on the webpage would have alleviated fears and be far less costly.
“No other MacBook models are part of this program as a result of design improvements.”
No it doesn't.
They'll just keep replacing it for you until the 4 years is up and at some point you'll buy a machine with whatever keyboard is the newer one (that we're hopefully about to see)
I don’t agree with this logic. Apple can’t endlessly replace faulty keyboards for 4 years and remain profitable for that product line. There is financial pressure on them to make this work.
Edit: I have been very critical of the reliability of past keyboards. But, at some point, it is worth checking the echo chamber to be sure that the concerns are still valid rather than repeating old news. So, I am just calling the question, since I haven’t heard of many 2019 KB failures.
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Maybe they're going to throw us a curve ball and only live stream the event, that could explain why there haven't been any invites. But that idea is WAY out there and this is 100% a guess. Only reason I could think of them doing this is to save money.
That is unfortunately untrue. In the past what Apple has done is simply replace faulty equipment with the same faulty equipment for as long as they can get away with it. The 15 and 17" Macbook Pros with the faulty graphics card is a prime example of that. Case in point, I've had the battery in my Macbook Pro replaced three times due to expansion, and now it's expanding again. Their solution is just to replace it again.
But, in the case of the keyboards, they are replacing failed 2018 keyboards with new 2019 keyboard mechanisms.
You may not "agree with it", but it's precisely what Apple does with situations like this.
By the way, this entire keyboard situation is a literal eye dropper in their ocean of iOS hardware and services revenue. There's no true serious financial pressure or risk regarding the keyboard situation other than an inconvenience and reputation hit they'd obviously prefer not to have.
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Precisely. Just about any situation like this - this is just what Apple does.
Fix fix fix and get the new/updated models out there when it fits their plans.
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If a product design allows for fixing in that way, yes - but it rarely works out that way.
The 2016 (2017's also I believe) are ineligible for that fix due to internal design differences and thus they will fix fix fix for them up until the 4 years runs out. That's the best they are willing to do.
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And really, four years is fast approaching on the 2016 models.
A lot of people replace before then anyway, so for them it's fine minus the hassle, but for others it ultimately accelerates an upgrade to a new machine when/if Apple fixes it, which still ends up being a win for Apple.
A lot of people replace before then anyway, so for them it's fine minus the hassle, but for others it ultimately accelerates an upgrade to a new machine when/if Apple fixes it, which still ends up being a win for Apple.
yeah, but we aren’t talking about the older models. I agree the early keyboards were crap. We are talking about the 2019 models and keyboards. So, again, I call the question: is there any evidence that the 2019 butterfly keyboard has abnormally high failures or reliability issues? Or, are we just repeating an echo chamber of old news?
I have owned the 2017 and 2018 MBP models. Both with butterfly keyboards. Both failed for me. I was getting double-characters when pressing a key. I had to use a third-party piece of software to reduce the issue.
I now have the 2019 13" MBP. This butterfly keyboard is far better than the previous two iterations. I really like it. No issues whatsoever. Still, I would rather have the older scissor keyboards and the improved travel performance that comes with them.
Doesn't look like it. Which means either:
-it's a relatively minor update and it will be announced via press release
-it's not coming until 2020 (and may be a more significant update)
Guess we have until the end of the month to find out
-it's a relatively minor update and it will be announced via press release
-it's not coming until 2020 (and may be a more significant update)
Guess we have until the end of the month to find out
Right, this is the other point, the lack of travel and the noise, though reduced from 2016/17, is something a lot of people do not like. As to Mainsail's point about if we have evidence of failures, I don't think we really do outside the pure fact that the computer exists on the replacement program. No maybe Apple is only doing that due to the impact of the general design flaw on consumer confidence in the product. But we don't know. Apple likely does though. So, I don't really understand the point of debating if the 2019 keyboard will have a higher failure rate than the redesign. We're just going to have to trust Apple until we get the data and that might take years.
They haven't turned any corner. They've gone through 4 iterations of this keyboard in an attempt to make it work and all 4 have failed to address the core problems. This is without even mentioning the fact that it is miserable to type on, and actually feels as cheap as it is unreliable.
It is well known at this point that the 16" Pro is going to debut with a brand new keyboard, that uses a scissor-style mechanism. Apple's self-loathing over this problem that they needlessly created is probably extreme. This is an example of them trying to change something that didn't need changing, and failing at it. Failing publicly, miserably, and everyone has lost because of it. Apple has lost. Customers have lost. They accomplished nothing with the butterfly keyboard, other than a hard lesson on why you shouldn't over engineer simple things, or try to solve problems that don't need solving. Apple's arrogance is what led to them not only making it in the first place, but releasing 3 more iterations instead of admitting failure sooner.
That is such a superb summary..
Literally nobody would use the Magic Keyboard and think "god I wish it were thinner, with less travel, worse feel and more noise"
Apple created a solution for a problem that didn't exist -- and in the process created quite a mess of new problems.
It's was essentially "anti-innovation".
Creating problems while trying to solve for things that were not a problem. lol
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If we dont try to make new things how we can move forward in tech?
The issues like you said is not that they tried to bring something new,but to try and retry and retry for too many years and expect a different result
I think after 2017 they already should get rid of it
I'd argue that innovation in keyboards wasn't needed to "move forward in tech".
You're conflating progress overall with iterating to the point of disaster on a component that was already phenomenal.
Way too many people can get sucked into thinking "change" and "new" is "better".
Sometimes it is...for sure! -- But definitely not always.
The Butterfly keyboard never should have left their lab.
Remember, Apple tries LOADS of things we never even learn about (as do many companies).
They mistakenly went ahead with something that clearly didn't get tested nearly enough.
The problem is that they made something new for the sole reason that it was thinner, not that it was functionally superior to the previous design.
Classic "change for the sake of change" mistake.
I'm not solely blaming Ive here, but either way I'm glad he's now gone.
It's just time for a whole direction and fresh design motivations at Apple.
They completely ran the course of "thinnovation" (to a fault on some products)
Yes, it was fine for them to experiment with the questions, "How can we improve the keyboard? Make keys depress evenly? Make keys quieter? Reduce fatigue by reducing key travel?"
It was perfectly fine for Apple to approach those ideas. What followed, was not.
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No not really, they formulated legitimate questions/problems that they tried to solve. What happened was they caused new problems that were way worse than what they set out to fix, and refused to admit it for way, way too long.
To be fair we don’t really know what their questions or problems were.
Apple may very well have set out with a goal to make they keyboard thinner so that the overall machine could also be (or to make room for other components)