Nokia Increases Scope of Patent Complaints to Include 'Virtually All' Apple Products

[dsnort]

Meh, this is all lawyer gobbledegook.

Apple and Nokia were unable to come to an agreement on GSM licensing terms. Enter the lawyers.

Nokia's lawyers heave a nuke. They know they probably won't get it, but they hope to raise the mid-point, and hey, you may get lucky and draw an idiot Judge! ( There are plenty of them around).

Then Apple's lawyers heave a counter-nuke. They know they probably won't get it, but they hope to lower the mid-point, and hey, you may get lucky and draw an idiot Judge! ( There are plenty of them around).

Nokia owns certain patents related to GSM, and Apple will have to pay for them. This is all about how much.

 

[sjo]

Or maybe Nokia demanded the previous year that Apple pay the industry rate plus include patents and when Apple told them to shove it, they came back the following year demanding the 3 times the payment plus patents.



Errrrrrrrrrrrrm no, I read that Nokia wanted 3 times the rate that they demanded from the previous year. It seems that Nokia's demands increase the more profits Apple pulls from the iphone. This is what they have been turned into, they see Apple come into the market and make a killing and they become jealous. Heck they even admitted they are jealous of Apple's success. If Apple didn't want to pay the industry rates, why the heck aren't they getting sued by all the companies who own patents relating to the standards. Why is it only Nokia that is being bullied by big evil Apple.

This cannot be that hard

1. Nokia offered licensing deal based on monetary compensation in 2007

2. Apple didn't reply

3. Nokia offered several different other deals, including ones with different kinds of cross licensing terms

4. Apple refuses

5. Nokia offers, again, a deal based on monetary compensation only in 2009

Of course the monetary compensation (in 5) is going to be higher if the deal does not involve cross licensing (in 3).

What exactly is there difficult to comprehend for Apple fanboys? I just do not understand...

Well, a smartphone is not exactly a simple phone with GSM functionality, is it? It is a portable Internet multimedia device, that adds a hell lot of value to a simple GSM Nokia-style phone. Apple has every right to demand a lower percentage.

This is pure ignorance. Nokia has way more than "simple GSM style phones". Nokia had first smartphone 13 freaking years ago. It's not something Apple invented. And Nokia is still the largest smartphone manufacturer by far.

Yes Nokia has also simple phones. Try to look beyong that. You could just as intelligently argue that Nokia smartphones are mobile computers wile Apple has these "ipod shuffle -type of devices".

 

[aristotle]

This is pure ignorance. Nokia has way more than "simple GSM style phones". Nokia had first smartphone 13 freaking years ago. It's not something Apple invented. And Nokia is still the largest smartphone manufacturer by far.

Yes Nokia has also simple phones. Try to look beyong that. You could just as intelligently argue that Nokia smartphones are mobile computers wile Apple has these "ipod shuffle -type of devices".

Dude, you are not getting it. The iPhone is essentially an iPod Touch plus a GSM/UMTS radio, microphone, GPS, camera and compass. Nokia does not have a right to extort apple or any other handset maker for a percentage of the handset. They can change fees the price of the phone part of the device but not the entire device.

 

[MorphingDragon]

Sorry my Nokia ? I don't even own a single Nokia product, much less have a job with them or even stock.

Where did you get *MY* nokia from ?



You're missing a few facts. Maemo doesn't need cross-platform, since it's one platform. They have an API for most of what QT does, GTK is only used for GUI parts because like you said, GTK is about GUI (glib abstracts a lot of other parts and is usually always used with GTK). Maemo is pretty much about drawing in open source devs, and in open source, GTK+ is more popular right now (and as been for about ever) than QT.

This was about leveraging the open source community. The fact is, they are now moving to eating their own dogfood and moving to QT for Maemo 6.0. They will also change their browser from Mozilla to Webkit. Nokia isn't dumb. GTK probably made more sense initially and now QT makes more sense moving into the future.



I haven't read that in this thread. I've seen a few neutral people who look at facts say Apple should pay something to Nokia to use the patents, and that a suit makes sense if the companies can't negotiate proper licensing terms.

Leveraging to open-source community to what...

This?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/93/OpenOffice_Writer_in_Maemo_5.jpg

Im sorry but that looks like somebody with cancer who cundered.

 

[*LTD*]

Leveraging to open-source community to what...

This?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/93/OpenOffice_Writer_in_Maemo_5.jpg

Im sorry but that looks like somebody with cancer who cundered.

This is Maemo, apparently.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Maemo5-screenshot.png

Yup, good old Linux open source.

For some reason it looks better in Nokia's promo material:

http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/image-gallery/#1

Perhaps it's Maemo 6:

http://gizmodo.com/5377966/nokias-next-os-maemo-6-could-look-like-this

And here's the uh . . . cutting edge N900:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw-c8iHZBd4&feature=player_embedded#

Quick review:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHa3AoNdglY&NR=1

 

[KnighsTalker]

Oh Whaaa!!!

Nokia is just whining about revenue loss due to the overwhelming demand and sales of the iPhone. TFB!!! Quit your sniveling Nokia.

 

[puckhead193]

I think they are suing because Al Gore invented the internet....
now can we have some mbp/mp rumors please...

 

[KnightWRX]

And here's the uh . . . cutting edge N900:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw-c8iHZBd4&feature=player_embedded#

Uh ? No, that's a QT preview running on Maemo 5. It's not "the cutting edge N900" as you put it.

Heck, it's running on a prototype board, if you notice, that's not even a complete tablet or phone, there's no case around the screen.

At least try to get real videos that prove your point, not some dinky videos that aren't even what you say they are.

 

[Mr. Gates]

I think they are suing because Al Gore invented the internet....
now can we have some mbp/mp rumors please...

I heard that mbp was cheating on mp with mba ....

 

[*LTD*]

Uh ? No, that's a QT preview running on Maemo 5. It's not "the cutting edge N900" as you put it.

Heck, it's running on a prototype board, if you notice, that's not even a complete tablet or phone, there's no case around the screen.

At least try to get real videos that prove your point, not some dinky videos that aren't even what you say they are.

See the second video.

 

[Goona]

Let's look at Nokia's recent ventures:

Comes With Music - FAIL
Ovi App Store - YAWN
Ovi - YAWN
N97 - YAWN

No wonder why they are jealous and looking to sue.

 

[*LTD*]

Let's look at Nokia's recent ventures:

Comes With Music - FAIL
Ovi App Store - YAWN
Ovi - YAWN
N97 - YAWN

No wonder why they are jealous and looking to sue.

The reality is that people want an iPhone. That's not going to change. Apple has nowhere to go but up. Too much mindhsare, too much popularity, too desirable a product. It's shaping up to be an iPod phenomenon. Apple once again found that sweet-spot between hardware+software.

You'll have to really want a Nokia to get a Symbian or Maemo device. Neither of which will really do anything to alleviate Nokia's slide.

 

[MorphingDragon]

This is Maemo, apparently.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Maemo5-screenshot.png

Yup, good old Linux open source.

For some reason it looks better in Nokia's promo material:

http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/image-gallery/#1

Perhaps it's Maemo 6:

http://gizmodo.com/5377966/nokias-next-os-maemo-6-could-look-like-this

And here's the uh . . . cutting edge N900:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw-c8iHZBd4&feature=player_embedded#

Quick review:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHa3AoNdglY&NR=1

The only projects to make a usable and one people would actually want to look at Desktop is KDE and Moblin.

Oh, and if you want to get some good crossplatfrom free games look here
games.kde.org

 

[Archmagination]

This cannot be that hard

1. Nokia offered licensing deal based on monetary compensation in 2007

2. Apple didn't reply

3. Nokia offered several different other deals, including ones with different kinds of cross licensing terms

4. Apple refuses

5. Nokia offers, again, a deal based on monetary compensation only in 2009

Of course the monetary compensation (in 5) is going to be higher if the deal does not involve cross licensing (in 3).

What exactly is there difficult to comprehend for Apple fanboys? I just do not understand...

THAT IS illegal!! Because its an international standard Nokia isn't allowed to do that.. if Company A,B,C pays 2% money compensation only for the license, then Company D should be able to pay 2%. There is some room for negotiation, but essentially Company D has the right to demand 2% only.

It would be interesting to see if other company's that have licensed the standard from Nokia use money compensation only or if its a mixture and if so how much they actually pay. If even one company pays less than what Nokia has proposed to Apple then Apple is in the right.

 

[alexhasfun28]

Maybe because Nokia doesn't want them paying the same dues, they want them paying 3 times what others are paying.

Probably because of the patents Apple has stold and haven't paid,..
yet!

 

[kironin]

The issue isn't the patents, its that the iPhone is killing the Nokia business model and they can't counter it.

Exactly, Nokia can F themselves.

 

[rjohnstone]

Dude, you are not getting it. The iPhone is essentially an iPod Touch plus a GSM/UMTS radio, microphone, GPS, camera and compass. Nokia does not have a right to extort apple or any other handset maker for a percentage of the handset. They can change fees the price of the phone part of the device but not the entire device.

The iPhone is ONE device and it's primary function is a phone.

Also, it's not extortion, it's business.

Let the lawyers and courts figure it out.

 

[alexhasfun28]

This is pure ignorance. Nokia has way more than "simple GSM style phones". Nokia had first smartphone 13 freaking years ago. It's not something Apple invented. And Nokia is still the largest smartphone manufacturer by far.

Yes Nokia has also simple phones. Try to look beyong that. You could just as intelligently argue that Nokia smartphones are mobile computers wile Apple has these "ipod shuffle -type of devices".

The iPhone is not just an "iPod shuffle- type of device."
it's a phone that revolutionized the whole entire phone industry.

How?
1) Every phone company are doing touch-screens now.
2) They're starting to go "app crazy."
3) Most features, like virtual keyboards, built in apps are being copied.
4) Phone companies are changing their dimensions on phones.
5) The visual voicemail became a phenomenon.
6) Pinch&zoom,.. WOW! Many are trying to do that now. Most of them fail to though. Ha!
7) People see this device as a, "OMG! Finally some new features and ideas."

and the list can keep going.

 

[Lloyd Christmas]

Well......

I will admit that I never read all the posts in this thread but I have a feeling that Apple will spend what ever they need to protect their products. Like I read when I was skimming, Nokia is very nervous and is trying to cover all bases to protect themselves. Either Nokia is getting ready to man up to declare something or setting themselves up for something real nasty. I just dont see a point of going to battle with Apple when they have all the patents to everything as well as the bankroll to support the lawyers. Guess we will see what happens. So Long 2009. Lloyd

 

[LagunaSol]

Nope, Nokia has asked for exactly the same amount (5 percent of revenue), Apple doesn't even deny that. They are just saying that it is to much. Quite a tough argument as 30+ mobile companies agreed to pay the exactly same amount to Nokia before. Even those companies that sued Nokia because of their patents asked for that amount because it's been the standard FRAND amount in the mobile sector. Just Apple didn't want to pay.

So Apple said "Ok, we're not licencing your tech because it's too much for us, we're just stealing it! HAHA!"

You might want to read the details of Apple's complaint before you embarrass yourself by showing us all how little you know about the issue in question.

 

[LagunaSol]

Apple is playing the Psystar role in this little drama. Bad Apple. Bad!

Hey Shaw, if Nokia manages to legally destroy the iPhone, maybe WinMo can make its triumphant comeback! It would be like Christmas, payday, Mardi Gras, your birthday and Rapture all rolled into one! Pray!

 

[KnightWRX]

Hey Shaw, if Nokia manages to legally destroy the iPhone, maybe WinMo can make its triumphant comeback! It would be like Christmas, payday, Mardi Gras, your birthday and Rapture all rolled into one! Pray!

Nokia isn't going to destroy the iPhone or any other Apple products. (of course, a few of you are acting as if they will, what with all the foaming at the mouth, cursing Nokia!).

Like was said before, Apple and Nokia are both just "negotiating" right now. Talks have broken down, so now both companies are showing their guns. This will end in a settlement, with Apple getting a license to use the Nokia patents.

 

[LagunaSol]

Nokia isn't going to destroy the iPhone or any other Apple products.

Shhhh, let AidenShaw dream...

 

[aristotle]

The iPhone is ONE device and it's primary function is a phone.

Also, it's not extortion, it's business.

Let the lawyers and courts figure it out.

I'm a software developer and I've also seen the tear downs of the iPhone versus the iPod Touch. I've also owned both an iPod Touch and now an iPhone. They have the same software with minor differences. With hacking, you can even install the phone dialer on an iPod Touch although it will do nothing. You are focusing on the whole package rather than recognizing that Nokia's patents have nothing to do with 90% of the OS and 90% of the hardware found in the iPhone. Nokia charging Apple for technology that Nokia did not invent is theft. It is also extortion to try to force Apple to license patents it does not want to license.

The fact is that Nokia placed their patents in the patent pool of the GSM group and Apple was willing to pay the standard rates that Sony Erricson pays but Nokia wanted to break the rules and force Apple to pay more than is prescribed. It is not only anti-competitive but violates the rules of the GSM group.

BTW. You can disable the GSM radio using airplane mode which effectively turns the iPhone into an iPod Touch.

 

[Mebsat]

Interesting - Nokia are going for damages resulting from what it perceives is lost market share. No wonder Apple are fighting it - this could result in massive open ended settlement.

From Nokia's filing ;


73. Even if Apple were to subsequently pay past due F/RAND royalites, it would still enjoy a market share it otherwise would not have but for the period of “free riding.” Nokia would likewise lose its portion of the market share for the period of the “free riding.” Due to the difficulty in predicting whether, if at all, such market share can be recovered, Nokia’s harm cannot be compensated by payment of past due F/RAND royalties alone.

So Nokia is saying if Apple had paid us the royalties, then the iPhone wouldn't have been a success. That the market share gains would have been smaller? Why? Because Apple needed that 5% of revenue to make the phones?

Good thing Apple has been sitting on a cash pile for 5 years now. It hasn't been earning enough interest, but now it can blow this stupid argument out of the water.