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Nokia Increases Scope of Patent Complaints to Include 'Virtually All' Apple Products

aristotle said:
You are focusing on the whole package rather than recognizing that Nokia's patents have nothing to do with 90% of the OS and 90% of the hardware found in the iPhone.
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Yes, and cameras have been added to phones since the emergence of gsm, as well. But, the terms are still X% of the combined device, not X% of the Y% od the device, where Y% is that portion of the device which is a gsm phone. You and/or Apple may not like it, nor agree with it, but that's how the industry handles it.

Nokia charging Apple for technology that Nokia did not invent is theft. It is also extortion to try to force Apple to license patents it does not want to license.
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no, it's how the industry handles convergence of devices. It's the established precedent. If Apple doesn't like it, they shouldn't have entered that market.

The fact is that Nokia placed their patents in the patent pool of the GSM group and Apple was willing to pay the standard rates that Sony Erricson pays
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what % is SE paying for them?
what % did Nokia ask Apple for?
 
kzin said:
Yes, and cameras have been added to phones since the emergence of gsm, as well. But, the terms are still X% of the combined device, not X% of the Y% od the device, where Y% is that portion of the device which is a gsm phone. You and/or Apple may not like it, nor agree with it, but that's how the industry handles it.



no, it's how the industry handles convergence of devices. It's the established precedent. If Apple doesn't like it, they shouldn't have entered that market.



what % is SE paying for them?
what % did Nokia ask Apple for?
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I'm not sure why you are having difficulty understanding what other people are saying. Do you have difficulty with reading comprehension?

Perhaps you should take a look at the subject matter of the thread. Apple licensed WiFi technology from the Wifi standards group like every other manufacturer out there. Now, Nokia is accusing Apple's laptops with Wifi (not GSM and not a phone), the iPhone touch (not a phone and not GSM) of violating patents for which Apple already paid a license fee for to the standards body for Wifi. Do you understand me now?

This is extortion plain and simple and I look forward to seeing Nokia with an anti-trust lawsuit and having their patents stripped and placed under the control of the GSM standards group to be licensed to anyone at a non-discriminator rate.

Apple is only asking to pay the same rate as what Sony Ericson pays rather than triple that amount.
 
kzin said:
Yes, and cameras have been added to phones since the emergence of gsm, as well. But, the terms are still X% of the combined device, not X% of the Y% od the device, where Y% is that portion of the device which is a gsm phone. You and/or Apple may not like it, nor agree with it, but that's how the industry handles it.



no, it's how the industry handles convergence of devices. It's the established precedent. If Apple doesn't like it, they shouldn't have entered that market.



what % is SE paying for them?
what % did Nokia ask Apple for?
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I still think patents for a international standard should be forfeit.
 
MacRumors said:
In its court filing, Apple argued that it was not infringing on Nokia's patents, and even if it were determined by a court that it was infringing, Nokia had not offered fair licensing terms, demanding reciprocal access to iPhone-related patents not relevant to industry standards.
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Oh boo hoo hoo. Nokia doesn't want to play nice with their competitor? how shocking.
 
MorphingDragon said:
They have to, they put their patents out as a standard and therefore submit to FRAND.
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... and Apple refused to pay the standard rate. I don't understand what the comprehension problem amongst people is here. Nokia told Apple to pay the standard fees, Apple said no, Nokia said fine pay more, Apple said no, Nokia said were suing you for using our technology in the iPhone, Apple said so what were suing you back, Nokia started nitpicking and found traces of there technology in other Apple products and broadened the scope.

Nokia is not a fledgling company, this is not some Pystar company looking to get rich of Apple, this is Apple legitimately stealing Nokia's IP.

All of you are so quick to stand by Apple and there frivolous IP lawsuits, why is it any different when someone does it to Apple?
 
aristotle said:
I'm not sure why you are having difficulty understanding what other people are saying. Do you have difficulty with reading comprehension?
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No difficulty at all. The post I replied to (yours) was specifically focused on the phone vs non-phone aspects of the iPhone compared to the iPod Touch. If you don't remember your own post, perhaps you should see your doctor about dementia and early-onset Alzheimers

And, while you're at it, answer the question. You say that Apple is willing to pay as much as Sony Ericsson, but Nokia isn't willing to accept that. What percentages are those that you are basing this accusation upon?
 
jfanning said:
Which people are these exactly, remembering that 99% of all phones sold don't have an Apple label on them
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You don't seem to understand that Apple is an infant in the cell phone market. In a short period of time, they revolutionized the industry with the experience they provided. Nokia was left behind, they will not be able to compete with iTunes nor the iPhone OS. They will continue to lose Market share from this point forward either to Apple or Google even Palm. This is what you call a Paradigm shift my friend.... It happens from time to time... When digital watches appeared, the playing field was leveled for new manufacturers of watches. Phones have become mobile computers, Nokia's day is ending, you can't blame them for trying to survive, their big mistake was when their CEO said the word "copy".
 
So how does the Mac break any patents?

If it does, expect Nokia to sue Dell, HP, Toshiba and all the other PC companies because if Apple infringes on anything and 802.11 WiFi is my guess, you can bet all the others do and as they aren't phones I bet the PC manufacturers don't pay either.

Also, the camera issue. I'm sure Philips had the patent on that back in the 70's and it has long since expired.
 
Are you not entertained?

Applus Decimus Therestof'em (Maximus Decimus Meridius)
 

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tundrabuggy said:
You don't seem to understand that Apple is an infant in the cell phone market. In a short period of time, they revolutionized the industry with the experience they provided. Nokia was left behind, they will not be able to compete with iTunes nor the iPhone OS. They will continue to lose Market share from this point forward either to Apple or Google even Palm. This is what you call a Paradigm shift my friend.... It happens from time to time... When digital watches appeared, the playing field was leveled for new manufacturers of watches. Phones have become mobile computers, Nokia's day is ending, you can't blame them for trying to survive, their big mistake was when their CEO said the word "copy".
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You don't seem to understand that Apple sells a US$600 phone, and while they continue to sell a US$600 phones the majority of phones sold will continue to have labels other than Apples on them
 
alexhasfun28 said:
The iPhone is not just an "iPod shuffle- type of device."
it's a phone that revolutionized the whole entire phone industry.

How?
1) Every phone company are doing touch-screens now.
3) Most features, like virtual keyboards, built in apps are being copied.
4) Phone companies are changing their dimensions on phones.
5) The visual voicemail became a phenomenon.
6) Pinch&zoom,.. WOW! Many are trying to do that now. Most of them fail to though. Ha!
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Interestingly, none of those things were created by Apple.

Nor was the iPhone a "revolution". It was an evolution.

Other groups were working on touchscreen multi-media devices with virtual keyboards (Nokia, in fact, released 2 such devices before the iPhone, with an up-front statement that it would evolve into a phone). Nokia even had a previous touch-screen phone, pre-dating the iPhone by _years_.

"Visual Voicemail" was already an available product (Apple even got sued for it).

Pinch to Zoom was an existing part of Multi-Touch demos from the company that actually developed Multi-Touch (which wasn't Apple).

What Apple did, just like with the Macintosh and iPod, was accurately judge the necessary EXISTING features, properly package them, and successfully market that package of features.

The iPhone is an evolution of existing market features and even existing market trends. Not a revolution.
 
kdarling said:
I don't think Apple can get Americans to work long days for $50-$100 a month, even with dormitory room and board.

Either their profit would have to drop drastically, or the prices go up.
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I would do it gladly. Heck, I would have more money at the end of the month than now! Room and board, and may be a health plan too! Wow! Bring it on.

So they're not just balking at "fair terms", they're claiming they shouldn't have to pay at all for many items that others pay for.
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Not so. They are balking at "unfair terms" several times what others are paying plus access to Apple's patents.
 
Stop suing and do business. :mad:

But I do find Nokia products less attractive now then before.

Why the Macs? The Macs doesn't even connect to a mobile network by itself.
 
i like nokia ,support it ! and i think with the condition of less and less energy ,the product of nokia is very efficient ,so let us choose product of nokia!
 
Mattie Num Nums said:
... and Apple refused to pay the standard rate. I don't understand what the comprehension problem amongst people is here. Nokia told Apple to pay the standard fees, Apple said no, Nokia said fine pay more, Apple said no, Nokia said were suing you for using our technology in the iPhone, Apple said so what were suing you back, Nokia started nitpicking and found traces of there technology in other Apple products and broadened the scope.

Nokia is not a fledgling company, this is not some Pystar company looking to get rich of Apple, this is Apple legitimately stealing Nokia's IP.

All of you are so quick to stand by Apple and there frivolous IP lawsuits, why is it any different when someone does it to Apple?
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http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/29/nokia-vs-apple-the-in-depth-analysis/

Learn, life.

What standard rate, most other companies had wireless patents they could use to dupe Nokia out of Money. All Apple has is interface patents.
 
MacBram said:
That's right -- that's why pioneers in a field like this pool their patents into international standards in order to help encourage interoperable technologies and products.

As a pioneer, Nokia pooled it's patents, making them open for fair, non-discriminatory licensing at the same fair, reasonable rates for everyone. This is standard practice.

However, Nokia suddenly decided that Apple isnot part of the "everyone" who may license the pooled standards patents at the same non-discriminatory rates as everyone else. Nokia wants to discriminate against Apple alone (because they are successful presumably) and charge them THREE TIMES the going rate.

Oh, it doesn't stop there: suddenly they demand that Apple allow free use of Apple's own patented technologies as well! What cheek! These are private Apple patents that NEVER were part of any pooled standards put into the pot for everyone to license. Apple has not opened them up to anyone -- so it is not discriminating against Nokia.

Nokia has been the aggressor -- suddenly changing terms that were already established (and changing them for Apple alone). Apple has responded by pointing out the private patents that Nokia has violated -- over which Apple had previously been silent.

Who is the bad guy here?
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Nokia will lose its ass in this legal bluff, period.
 
kzin said:
Yes, and cameras have been added to phones since the emergence of gsm, as well. But, the terms are still X% of the combined device, not X% of the Y% od the device, where Y% is that portion of the device which is a gsm phone. You and/or Apple may not like it, nor agree with it, but that's how the industry handles it.
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I guess the biggest problem in developing a new ueber device is that it would take more than 100% in accumulated license payments.
And then there is no own engineering and no production payed, and no profit generated.
 
"The clowns in Finland or wherever the heck they are, are getting desperate. They want some of Apple's billions. Now they want some of what Apple is getting from the Mac and iPod. Greedy bastards."

No they don't. That's Apple's problem. Apple would pay. Nokia doesn't want Apple's money. They want a cross-licensing deal.
 
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