Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Nokia Increases Scope of Patent Complaints to Include 'Virtually All' Apple Products

Vmaatta said:
Not to defend Nokia or anything but...

1) Nokia might actually have a case. They we're involved in the initial development of GSM and other technologies used so they certainly have the patents.
2) This thing certainly didn't start in the past few months. Quite a few geniuses saying this law suit is coming out of nowhere after 3 years. Discussions have been going on for years between Nokia and Apple as has been reported earlier by MacRumors and other places..
3) "How do you spell "Nokia?" P S Y S T A R" That comparison is just idiotic :eek:.
4) "The clowns in Finland or wherever the heck they are.." Yeah it's Finland, nice of you to find out some of the background info on Nokia :rolleyes:.
5) "Best answer to fools: never ever buy any product by Nokia. Ever." How about this one: Find out the facts, if not known yet, wait for the court ruling before making such proclamations. Think.
6) Apple has made the countersuit about some other patents. If there's any merit in that, the companies will likely make a deal.

I'm Finnish and also an iPhone owner.. not on either company's side on this one. Nokia certainly owns the patents but who knows if Nokia is asking unfair prices like Apple says or if Apple is simply trying to get a cheap ride.. or give Nokia a bad name which they are certainly doing. They certainly have the money to play like that.

Nokia needs to make better phones (especially the OS side). I'm certainly disappointed to see the #1 Finnish company producing such crappy products lately. But that doesn't mean Nokia would be wrong to pursue fair compensation for use of their patented technology.
Click to expand...

Hey Nokia Fanboy,

NOKIA had nothing to do with the development of GSM, but were expert at exploiting the technology that was developed at SINTEF in Norway.
The Norwegians also developed the precursor to GSM, but knew zeeeero about how to turn this into products.
So cue NOKIA and Ericsson, which did.

NOKIA will lose this lawsuit -- because it has no foundation. Apple will have a lot of fun in court.

For your listening enjoyment, enter the following into your browser URL: wiki+gsm

This sentence should appear:

In 1987, a memorandum of understanding was signed by 13 countries to develop a common cellular telephone system across Europe.[7][8] Finally the system created by SINTEF led by Torleiv Maseng was selected.[9]
 
cumanzor said:
The whole definition of fanboy loses meaning in here, I see. Fanboy is, anyone who disagrees with Apple and agrees with any other company out there.

Makes senses :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I like that definition. I'm sick of anyone who agrees with Apple on even one issue being labelled "fanboy" by people who can't gin up any better argument.
 
cumanzor said:
The whole definition of fanboy loses meaning in here, I see. Fanboy is, anyone who disagrees with Apple and agrees with any other company out there.

Makes senses :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

The thing is, many of the "Apple does no wrong crowd" in here mistakes people with objective opinions based on facts as X fanboys.

I've been called a Google fanboy, a Nokia fanboy, a Motorola fanboy, a Blackberry fanboy heck even an Apple fanboy.

Yet I'm a fan of what works for me, and that's about it. I don't swear allegiance to anyone. If Apple makes a product at the right price that meets my needs, i'll buy it. If someone else does, I'll buy that. If someone does something that is wrong, or if there are tons of shades of gray, I'll gladly point them out.

Again, for the people too busy cleaning up the drool of their Apple tattoos :

Apple will settle this lawsuit and will pay to license the patents. This lawsuit, the counter suit, the ITC complaint, they are all bargaining chips. Both sides are guilty of this and both sides are pulling the sheets. They'll meet in the middle eventually, after the courts validates/invalidates claims through summary judgment and as evidence comes to light in discovery. This will never reach trial.

Apple knows they owe Nokia licensing fees, they don't deny that. They just want a bargain and they don't want to share patents. Nokia is saying no-dice, either pay up or share.

cmaier said:
I like that definition. I'm sick of anyone who agrees with Apple on even one issue being labelled "fanboy" by people who can't gin up any better argument.
Click to expand...

Except there are a few people here that will never disagree with anything Apple does and will never agree with what another company does. We all know them, they sound like broken records sometimes.
 
Fanboys galore

KnightWRX said:
This lawsuit, the counter suit, the ITC complaint, they are all bargaining chips.
Click to expand...

Exactly. NOKIA wants in on the app-business, and wants to be able to deliver them to their customers.
And Apple will say yes, because NOKIA sells more phones in a couple of weeks than Apple does in a year.

No - I don't drool for Apple. But the post by the Nokia fanboy was too fanboy.
 
Soundproof said:
Exactly. NOKIA wants in on the app-business, and wants to be able to deliver them to their customers.
And Apple will say yes, because NOKIA sells more phones in a couple of weeks than Apple does in a year.
Click to expand...

Huh? Nokia already has an app-business. See http://www.ovi.com/

If they want anything, it's for Apple's mostly obvious patents on gestures, notifications and other aspects of the iPhone to go away. Cross licencing as part of the price for the essential GSM patents was probably the cheapest way of doing it.
 
jaw04005 said:
That’s trademark law. :rolleyes: This is patent law. Nokia could sit on their patents for years and not use them. The only real risk with patent law is if the patent is overturned (prior art, etc).

This is nothing but the cost of doing business. Apple warned about lawsuits like this when they introduced iPhone. There’s more at stake for Nokia here than Apple. Apple has some 23 billion in the bank, and Nokia is essentially guaranteeing that Apple will never work with them ever again.

But when your stock price is the lowest it’s been in five years (down to $12 from around $55), your revenue is down 20 percent and you have little chance of developing the next big thing in the booming smartphone market -- what are you going to do?
Click to expand...

Apple has > $30 Billion in the bank.
 
Chimaera said:
What on earth are you smoking? Ogg Vorbis is an OSS competitor to MP3

DVDs are encoded in MPEG2, a format protected by well over 600 patents owned by around 20 companies all in. Theres a single licensing authority that administers all that so the appropriate patent owners get their share.

Its a very VERY long way from patent and royalty free
Click to expand...

Ogg also has a video format called Theora.

Open a DVD and go into the Video_TS folder. All part of the CSS system, but the main container format is .VOB. (Ogg Theora)

http://www.theora.org/
 

Attachments

  • Picture-1.gif
    Picture-1.gif
    188 KB · Views: 101
  • Picture-2.gif
    Picture-2.gif
    166.8 KB · Views: 88
MorphingDragon said:
Ogg also has a video format called Theora.

Open a DVD and go into the Video_TS folder. All part of the CSS system, but the main container format is .VOB. (Ogg Theora)
Click to expand...

We're going off on a tangent here but .VOB files are not Ogg container format and do not use the Theora codec, both of which were invented AFTER the DVD standard was established.
 
Soundproof said:
Exactly. NOKIA wants in on the app-business, and wants to be able to deliver them to their customers.
And Apple will say yes, because NOKIA sells more phones in a couple of weeks than Apple does in a year.

No - I don't drool for Apple. But the post by the Nokia fanboy was too fanboy.
Click to expand...

The person you are referring as "Nokia fanboy" made objective comment which might make him a smart consumer but not some mindless fanboy. Lets get real here the so called "Nokia fanboy" is iPhone owner and not Nokia... BTW. I believe Nokia has had "app store" far before we even could dream about iPhone let alone some Apple app store concept.

Its understandable that vast majority of the user base of this site are bias to Apple but if some are just normal consumers it doesn't make it right to call them Nokia or what ever fanboy. I for example have spent thru my company over $100000 on Apple and related products this year but I'm very far from being a Apple fan boy. In this case I believe Nokia has every right to defend their IP rights and make Apple pay for it. To me Apple is just another corporation making products that enable my company to work effectively. If Apple has done something wrong they have to pay like everyone else.
 
Nuvi said:
The person you are referring as "Nokia fanboy" made objective comment which might make him a smart consumer but not some mindless fanboy. Lets get real here the so called "Nokia fanboy" is iPhone owner and not Nokia... BTW. I believe Nokia has had "app store" far before we even could dream about iPhone let alone some Apple app store concept.

Its understandable that vast majority of the user base of this site are bias to Apple but if some are just normal consumers it doesn't make it right to call them Nokia or what ever fanboy. I for example have spent thru my company over $100000 on Apple and related products this year but I'm very far from being a Apple fan boy. In this case I believe Nokia has every right to defend their IP rights and make Apple pay for it. To me Apple is just another corporation making products that enable my company to work effectively. If Apple has done something wrong they have to pay like everyone else.
Click to expand...

Nokia/SE didn't have an "App Store".
Finding Symbian applications was a nightmare, first you had to find a suitable app (hosted on the developer's own website), then check it was compatible with the variant and version of Symbian you were running (S60 Apps weren't compatible with S80 or UIQ), then you generally had to pay an extortionate amount to download the app to your computer. This then was run and sent to your phone over the USB. WinMo suffered with the same issues but at least had many more freeware apps than Symbian.

The centralised App store model with apps downloaded either to your computer or directly to your phone came with iPhone. IMO it probably was the biggest innovation in iPhone.

I've had many, many phones including WinMo and Symbian Smartphones and nothing compares with the simplicity of iPhone as far as installing Apps is concerned. Now if we could clear out the farting apps and the torch apps, life would be good.
 
aegisdesign said:
We're going off on a tangent here but .VOB files are not Ogg container format and do not use the Theora codec, both of which were invented AFTER the DVD standard was established.
Click to expand...

MorphingDragon said:
Well I'll have to tell all the freaks at the Linux place to stop telling LIES ALL LIES...

>.>
Click to expand...

VOBs (video objects) seem to be standard MPEG-2 files. In Windows, copy or rename a .VOB to .MPG - double-click and it plays.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VOB

VOB files are a very strict subset of the MPEG program stream standard. While all VOB files are MPEG program streams, not all MPEG program streams comply with the definition for a VOB file.
Click to expand...
 
cjmillsnun said:
Nokia/SE didn't have an "App Store".
Finding Symbian applications was a nightmare, first you had to find a suitable app (hosted on the developer's own website), then check it was compatible with the variant and version of Symbian you were running (S60 Apps weren't compatible with S80 or UIQ), then you generally had to pay an extortionate amount to download the app to your computer. This then was run and sent to your phone over the USB. WinMo suffered with the same issues but at least had many more freeware apps than Symbian.

The centralised App store model with apps downloaded either to your computer or directly to your phone came with iPhone. IMO it probably was the biggest innovation in iPhone.

I've had many, many phones including WinMo and Symbian Smartphones and nothing compares with the simplicity of iPhone as far as installing Apps is concerned. Now if we could clear out the farting apps and the torch apps, life would be good.
Click to expand...

Actually, before iPhones I owned Nokia Communicator and Nokia was selling apps on their "Nokia app store" site. Its true you needed to download the apps with computer and then synch your phone.
 
Well Apple is not without a sin, but Nokia in this case is more wrong. Where were they ten years ago as I remember Cube had 802.11 in 2000 not to mention that Apple must have violated some patents held by Nokia in Newton.


To me it's PURE BS. Hope Apple wins.
 
tundrabuggy said:
What are you talking about? The phone was $499, then $299, then $199, soon to be $99.... This is a fact. Don't you have the foresight to see that the industry is changing? Look at the published marketshare in the last 2.5 years with respect to companies and phones sold. Your data is pulled our of the air. Obviously you have no clue.
Click to expand...

The iPhone is not US$199, unless you forget about that other US$2400 you pay off after getting it... And it will never be US$99, if you think it costs either price you really need to learn a little more prior to spending money
 
Soundproof said:
Exactly. NOKIA wants in on the app-business, and wants to be able to deliver them to their customers.
And Apple will say yes, because NOKIA sells more phones in a couple of weeks than Apple does in a year.
Click to expand...

You are aware that the entire mobile app Market is worth around US$7 billion per year, and the "App Store Market" (ie Apple App Store, Ovi, Android etc) is only around US$300 million? Nokia has been in the app business for a longer, and has a bigger market than Apple could dream of.
 
iPhone and iPod features violating Nokia patents

Here two examples of iPhone features and one ipod feature that are in question in the latest Nokia patent case:

Typing (selected character gets bigger)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmhdUSlZ1LM&feature=player_embedded

Clickwheel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkwYmGyKHiw&feature=player_embedded

Proximity sensor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y5b5XuZYY8&feature=player_embedded


In addition to those, there're the patents of concerning antenna structure that iPhones violate.

There's another thread about the lawsuit but I thought that these might be of sufficient interest not to get burried there...
 
jfanning said:
You are aware that the entire mobile app Market is worth around US$7 billion per year, and the "App Store Market" (ie Apple App Store, Ovi, Android etc) is only around US$300 million? Nokia has been in the app business for a longer, and has a bigger market than Apple could dream of.
Click to expand...


Could you give any sources for these numbers as i have never seen them before?!
Also what is the mobile app market, just phones, or anything that is mobile like laptops, or even a wider definition?

To me this sounds just like a good old price fight where Nokia is trying to get back the money they lost on the market share of the iPhone (and I know a lot of people who own companies or are managing directors who switched from communicators to either blackberries or iPhones).
And Apple is shouting back to them: over my dead body.

What wonders me is that it goes about GSM rights, which where iirc not just owned by Nokia?! How can Nokia be sewing then if they don't own them?

Anonther thing that I noticed is that nokia is getting a lot of bad publicity out of it, even in the regular news papers and mainstream websites. And those media almost always come to the conclusion that Apple probably does need to pay Nokia some money, but that Nokia is not looking good when they try to collect that money.
 
tremlock said:
I don't get these companies. I mean this is the 3rd iPhone. Did Nokia just realize the featues? Why all of a sudden for a lawsuit?
Click to expand...

:confused: because Apple filed a suit against Nokia just a couple of weeks ago? I mean Nokia phones have been there for two decades...

Though this discussion has been had in several other threads, I thought it might be interesting to discuss about those specific features. Not to go through the same why why why....
 
Nuvi said:
Actually, before iPhones I owned Nokia Communicator and Nokia was selling apps on their "Nokia app store" site. Its true you needed to download the apps with computer and then synch your phone.
Click to expand...

Rogers has been offering paid downloads (billed to your monthly cell bill) since way before the iPhone, back in 2005. You could download them through any GPRS enabled phone too (back before even EDGE existed).

Many carriers ran paid downloads like this, Apple just centralised the whole thing, they didn't even invent the concept. Not to mention at first, iPhone apps were only supposed to be webapps and there was no SDK.
 
Idiots

When apple sues everyone else its ok they r doing the right thing but when apple gets sued its wrong apple never invented any phone patents so they should pay to use them take ur heads out of apple,s A**
 
jfanning said:
The iPhone is not US$199, unless you forget about that other US$2400 you pay off after getting it...
Click to expand...

Wow, when are people going to drop this tired chestnut?

I guess my car isn't really a $30,000 car, it's a $70,000 car (10 years worth of gas, taxes, insurance, maintenance, car wash, wax, new tires, air fresheners, parking...).

And my $2,000 iMac is really more like $5,000, after adding 5 years worth of electricity, increased air conditioning, broadband Internet access...

Good grief.

Lots of things you buy come with additional costs over time. Funny how people only like to point this out when it comes to the iPhone. :rolleyes:

jfanning said:
Nokia has been in the app business for a longer, and has a bigger market than Apple could dream of.
Click to expand...

Nokia's "bigger market than Apple could dream of" is mainly comprised of cheap dumb phones that have no viable app market. Do you honestly believe that Apple is making peanuts on apps compared to Nokia?

KnightWRX said:
Many carriers ran paid downloads like this, Apple just centralised the whole thing, they didn't even invent the concept.
Click to expand...

Maybe the genius concept that Apple did invent was the "centralizing of the whole thing," hmm?

cliveren13 said:
When apple sues everyone else its ok they r doing the right thing but when apple gets sued its wrong apple never invented any phone patents so they should pay to use them take ur heads out of apple,s A**
Click to expand...

Sweet, my Ignore list hasn't had any new blood lately. Thanks for your contribution!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back