Nokia's New.... iPhone?

[Much Ado]

But of course the iPhone could not have been put together in that much time? They fact that they were working on things (namely multitouch) does not mean they had a phone in mind nor a form factor for that phone before seing the LG.

But as was originally said, there 'aint no form factor to copy with just one big screen. That's to be expected.

And of course they were working on a phone, you don't just go and call up AT&T at the last moment and say "Hey, we've seen an LG we want to copy. How about helping us with a phone system?"

And I don't see how when can judge how long it took to put together from seeing a 10 second clip.

Sure, and i didn't judge. But i said that from what i've seen, the concepts Nokia chose to display could easily have been heisted from the iPhone interface, whether true or not. 8 months is a long time.

If the Nokia offers more features that are comparable it could most assuredly take off. For every person who loves Apple there *probably* at least 2 who don't (and that is being modest), and those people are ready to buy the first thing like an iPhone just to go against the grain

It's true, which is why Nokia bothered making this phone.

 

[MacQuest]

Baby steps?!? Nokia built the whole infrastructure that the iPhone is build on.

Yeah, but...but... Benjamin Franklin discovered electricity and Thomas Edison invented the first practical electric light bulb... and if it wasn't for them then nokia nor Apple would have had the (blah, blah, blah)...

This has gone WAY off base now as it's turning into a nokia vs. Apple debate and it really shouldn't be about the companies as they both have done important and innovative things in their respective markets.

This really should just be an iPhone vs. nokia's future iPhone-like product discussion.

Bottom line:
Apple's iPhone is a high in demand (in the U.S. for now, Europe in a few months - go ahead, dilute yourself into thinking that it won't be well received over there ... underestimate Apple and learn the hard way like so many others have when Apple penetrated their product market regardless of geographic location) existing product with features that nokia is now only talking about implementing in a future product:

(at 1:45 in nokia's promo video)
"Soon, nokia's devices will allow you to touch the screen to navigate..."

Wow. Ground breaking.

Apparently old technology though. So old that nokia is just now advertising it as a new feature in their future products.

If Apple didn't bring anything new to the mobile communications market with the iPhone, and all of it's "not new" features have been around for years, then why didn't a market leader like nokia (or anyone else for that matter) implement them in a device long before Apple did?

Because they didn't know how. That's why.

THAT is the genius of Apple.

 

[Dontdothat317]

Yeah yeah apple probably had it right first and I always respect them for that.. Apple leads the way in creativity MORESO than many other companies.

However, if Nokia can pull off a great or better product, sell it for cheaper, and allow it to be flexible enough so that it can be used on any network.... id buy it over the iphone, simply because 600 bucks for a phone (a non 3G btw) and a ****** 8gb ipod doesn't get me going. And the internet on the upper end palms is just as fast.

 

[MacQuest]

THIS is a good example of the sentiment that I've heard expressed by massive amounts of people since Apple's iPhone introduction in January and it's release in late June, with the most commonly repeated statements highlighted in bold:

The thing people are missing is that up until apple, mobile phone GUI have been half baked and difficult to use. I have a nokia 6280 and it is horrible to use. It is buggy ( I am honestly on my third and it still crashes, I am not an apple fan boy, whatever that means, I just want good products that work.) and the mp3 player is virtually useless. I still had to buy a shuffle as this doesn't work for my runs. Nokia are probably the best of the traditional mobile makers though. Until apple raised the bar they could churn out rubbish again and again. I am so dissapointed by my 6280 that I have vowed never to buy Nokia again (or Sony Ericcson, or LG). They have no design flair either, Nokia's industrial design is horrible until they start copying (Apple's) Jonny Ives that is. I'll keep my 6280 until the iphone comes out over here in Aus.

THAT is why ... "the iPhone will prevail."

I had to throw that in for all of us old school Apple "fan bois " ... DAMNIT STELLA! Now you've got me saying it!!!

STEEEEELLLLLAAAAAAAAA!!!!

 

[Hawkeye411]

Good Job Nokia!!!

Maybe this will cause Apple to release the iPhone in other markets sooner. If not, hey ..... we can just buy the Nokia!!

WOO HOOOOO!!!!

Cheers.

 

[Evangelion]

I didn't want to say anything about this... but that couldn't be avoided. What b*ll sh*t. Can't they think of anything original anymore? Obviously not.

Can't Apple design anything original: click here

?

 

[-Trinity-]

Apparently old technology though. So old that nokia is just now advertising it as a new feature in their future products.

If Apple didn't bring anything new to the mobile communications market with the iPhone, and all of it's "not new" features have been around for years, then why didn't a market leader like nokia (or anyone else for that matter) implement them in a device long before Apple did?

Because they didn't know how. That's why.

And again total BS. Nokia did touchscreen phone prototype long time ago. It even had better resolution than iPhone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_7710

I don't know why it wasn't released to markets. Maybe it was too expensive at that time.

Also Nokia internet tablets have big touchscreens, so it's not that Nokia doesn't know how to to it.

You seem to think that iPhone with it's awesome new touchscreen technology is the 8th wonder of the world. For some reason many people are not so excited about the iPhone. I'm not mainly because I was using SE P800 with touchscreen in 2002. It could do everything that iPhone can do (minus multitouch, tilt sensor and Edge/Wi-Fi wasn't ready back then). And this five years old phone had doom, ScummVM, lots of other games, ftp/telnet/ssh, web server, JAVA, Outlook sync, E-mail with real attachements (not just pics), SMS/MMS, played DivX movies, 1st ever phone with camera, recorded video, tethering, chromatic guitar tuner, instant messenger, MP3/ogg player, word, excel, some painting app, full HTML browser, voice dialing, handwriting recognition, COPY & PASTE, etc... (all not stock features)

I mean this old phone did everything that I needed (and more) and iPhone doesn't even offer me the basic functionality that I had five years ago. I used it without the flip-open keypad so it had even fewer buttons than iPhone. Five years ago, that kind of phone really dropped some jaws.

Of course it looks now butt ugly, but in 2002 this was revolutionary and innovative phone.

And nobody had heard anything about the P800. Everybody that saw the phone asked "what is that? Is it a MP3 player?". If SE would have hyped it as much as the iPhone was hyped, then it might have been the first coming of the Jeesus Phone.

To me "Five years ahead" actually means "Five years behind"

 

[Evangelion]

And again total BS. Nokia did touchscreen phone prototype long time ago. It even had better resolution than iPhone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_7710

I don't know why it wasn't released to markets. Maybe it was too expensive at that time.

I actually saw 7710's being used around Helsinki few times. IIRC, it was on sale, but it was quite expensive and availability was limited.

Now, I love the iPhone and I have defended it from nay-sayers. But the underlying tech is NOT that special. Well, multitouch is, but it isn't used that much in the device to be honest. Accelerometers? MyOrigo had those in 2003. Touchscreens? Those are old as Moses. The main thing that iPhone has going for it is design and the OS.

 

[clevin]

The main thing that iPhone has going for it is design and the OS.

you nailed it, some people just so into "making accusation of copy". Apple's design is very natural, great, and comfortable, in recent years.

and OSX... lets wait and see, I read reports that Linux Mobile OS will be growing very rapidly, and so far, I felt it has better future, consider the no real app policy and single producer model of iPhone.

 

[walangij]

After reading through 5 pages of comments, I still don't know why iPhone users or Mac fans in general are so up in arms about Nokia's announcement? Apple jumped into the cell phone ring and released the iPhone, DUHHHH all other mobile companies have been looking at multi-touch, Apple was just the first to introduce it big time. The Prada was out before it but is marketed as a fashion phone, even though the iPhone is in the same category technically it is marketed as an all-purpose phone with "revolutionary interface". Dare I say that Apple is the only company that could create the hype for touch-interfaces b/c of sites like this and users like us. Without the iPhone's marketing, my uncle's and aunts would have no idea what multi-touch is so if Nokia did introduce something like this before the iPhone...yawn. Of course Nokia will wait until the majority of consumers know what it is before releasing any info on theirs. The marketing dollars spent on the iPhone informed consumers on the basis for what Nokia will likely capitalize on.

And good for Nokia to defend their marketshare and better for consumers to have more competition. Hopefully this will put more pressure on Apple to develop a better product faster, but the 5 year lock-in with AT&T probably hinders this as does the 2yr contract (new iPhone before contract is up equals pissed off 1gen iPhoners. Nokia is a huge company with more resources than Apple in mobile-tech, it's relieving to see them to start to market a multi-touch

A multi-touch nokia, unlocked, a sleek design and more functional at similar cost? Bring it on.

 

[-Trinity-]

The main thing that iPhone has going for it is design and the OS.

I gotta agree that the UI is good. Both visual and usability part. Although it sometimes shoots itself in the foot because it's too simplified. There has already been several use cases shown that seems just iDiotic. Like the e-mail reply with picture to guy who is not in your contacts.

I would like to see some settings that enables advanced features even making the UI less usable. Best of both worlds.

 

[MacQuest]

Can't Apple design anything original: click here

?

That piece of junk is FUGLY and, what OS does it use?

Oh, that makes it even worse.

Yeah, the "MyOrigo" (what the HELL is that?!!! Might as well have called it the "MyOrigami" because it's just as useless and as much of a failure as microsoft's P.O.S.) was surely Apple's inspiration ... ... for what NOT to do, if anything.

Nokia did touchscreen phone prototype long time ago....I don't know why it wasn't released to markets.

And THAT my friend, is ALL that matters.

They couldn't bring it to market because for WHATEVER reason, they couldn't make it work.

Apple did.

If SE would have hyped it as much as the iPhone...

Again: would have, could have, should have... but didn't.

Apple did.

To me "Five years ahead" actually means "Five years behind"

So that would put nokia 6 years behind, and anyone else following fter them even further back.

5 still comes before 6, but it's not really 5 and 6 anyway.

Apple is 1, and whoever is able to come to market next is not first, because...

Apple did.

PERIOD.

 

[emotion]

That piece of junk is FUGLY and, what OS does it use?

You can't deny the concept is very similar.

 

[-Trinity-]

That piece of junk is FUGLY and, what OS does it use?

Oh, that makes it even worse.

Yeah, the "MyOrigo" (what the HELL is that?!!! Might as well have called it the "MyOrigami" because it's just as useless and as much of a failure as microsoft's P.O.S.) was surely Apple's inspiration ... ... for what NOT to do, if anything.

Did you even bother to read what MyOrigo holds inside? Or do you just have hard time accepting the fact and therefore you make childish and totally irrelevant comments about the looks of MyOrigo.

It's even rumored that Apple bought MyOrigo's technology and tech-wise they do look very similar. Do you really need to see a list of all things that Apple copied from MyOrigo (and many other phones) or can you figure that out by yourself? Maybe Apple's dumbphone is just the right phone for you since you don't seem to understand anything about smartphones and just concentrate on the fashion part. Don't tell me... Your gay too?

http://www.intomobile.com/2007/08/10/analyst-apple-iphone-screen-problems-may-get-worse-the-dreaded-dead-strip.html
"Apple bought the rights to the screen technology used in the iPhone from a Finnish firm. Finnish firm reported that usage led to the same unresponsive display problems after some time. Apparently, 3 to 6 months of “extensive use” would start to degrade the technology and cause a lose of sensitivity to touch-inputs. This suggests that the relatively new iPhone fleet in the US could start to exhibit similar problems with time."

Guess the name of the Finnish company. I'll give you a hint. It's "MyOrigo"

 

[clevin]

Apple is 1, and whoever is able to come to market next is not first, because...

Apple did.

PERIOD.

apple is 1? please. since you think as long as there IS something different, its a NEW product, and Im sure nobody will make a machine exactly like iPhone, then apple's "1" really means nothing in your own definition....

defending apple to a degree like this, SJ should pay you.

 

[walangij]

apple is 1? please. since you think as long as there IS something different, its a NEW product, and Im sure nobody will make a machine exactly like iPhone, then apple's "1" really means nothing in your own definition....

defending apple to a degree like this, SJ should pay you.

Also, what definition is #1 or first to the market, what market? Mobiles? Mobiles with an OS? Multitouch OS? Or #1 in the first OSX based phone (which sadly does not live up to the name) or maybe Apple's first phone endeavor that makes sense?

 

[MacQuest]

It's even rumored that Apple bought MyOrigo's technology

That MyOrigo technology sucked because of a major factor; it was based on heat chemical deposition and heat detection input. The similarities between the manner in one input on that device and the iPhone is what caused that unfounded rumor that Apple bought the technology from "a finnish firm":

"But the source of the new brouhaha is London-based analyst Richard Windsor of Nomura International.

In his note, Windsor told clients that Apple bought rights to the screen technology by a Finnish firm that also saw the problem where usage sometimes led to dead areas over time."

At the bottom of the very same article you linked me to:

"Update
The iPhone does not use heat chemical deposition technology, nor does it detect inputs based on heat."

tech-wise they do look very similar.

Looking similar and being the same are two different things.

If Apple's iPhone input technology just looks like MyOrigo's earlier but severely flawed technology (THERE'S the answer to your statement saying "I don't know why they didn't bring it to market"), that means nothing.

Apple did it better with different technology and THAT is why they were able to bring the iPhone to market.

So the score is - Multi-touch input mobile communication devices: Apple = 1 / anyone else = NONE.

...since you don't seem to understand anything about smartphones...

I understand that there is only one "smartphone" with multi-touch input technology available today. The best part is, we haven't even seen what Apple has in store for us with multi-touch input, but I'll bet it's pretty exciting seeing as how they filed for patent on it.

Forget touch sensitive, yes that's been around for years. Multi-touch sensitive is a whole different deal though.

It's the difference between simple, limited point and touch capabilities with one finger, and the ability to manipulate, re-size, re-position, and many other things with the use of an opposable thumb.

It's an revolutionary step that Apple brought to the game.

Everyone else is still just sitting on the lower branch of the evolutionary tree throwing feces at eachother.

...and (you) just concentrate on the fashion part.

There's no denying that Apple puts a lot of thought into it's product designs. That's why it and the man behind them (Johnathon Ives) consistently win industrial design awards.

That's also the reason that Apple's products are always copied, from technolgy to design.

The iPhone looks like no other phone, but nokia is already proving that there will be iPhone look alikes. Follow the leader.

Don't tell me... Your gay too?

Exhibit your sexual frustration and look for your boyfriend somewhere else please, not on these forums.

I don't swing your way.

"Apple bought the rights to the screen technology used in the iPhone from a Finnish firm."... Guess the name of the Finnish company... It's "MyOrigo"

Yes, it is possible that Apple bought the rights to a flawed technology knowing that they could improve on it which is obviously what they did IF in fact that rumor is true:

Again, "But the source of the new brouhaha is London-based analyst Richard Windsor of Nomura International.

In his note, Windsor told clients that Apple bought rights to the screen technology by a Finnish firm that also saw the problem where usage sometimes led to dead areas over time."

At the bottom of the very same article you linked me to:

"Update
The iPhone does not use heat chemical deposition technology, nor does it detect inputs based on heat."

The point is MyOrigo, couldn't make it work.

Apple did.

 

[MacQuest]

...since you think as long as there IS something different, its a NEW product,...

Show me 1 other MULTI-touch input mobile communication device in the relevant mobile phone market.

You just don't get the importance of the difference between "touch" and "multi-touch" do you?

It seems so trivial, but it's HUGE.

It's literally the difference between having an opposable thumb and not having one. Your options and capabilities are severely limited without one.

Apple knows it. I and others know it. You don't.

Plus, you seem to lack the comprehension that multi-touch technology will extend far beyond the iPhone.

...and Im sure nobody will make a machine exactly like iPhone,

Of course they will.

Inevitabally, they'll probably suck functionally, but their attitude will be "Hey, it looks just like the iPhone ... that's good enough, isn't it? ... isn't it?!!! ... PLEASE buy our crap!!!".

...then apple's "1" really means nothing in your own definition...

Don't blame me because you're taking my definition out of context.

Again, show me 1 other MULTI-touch input mobile communication device in the relevant mobile phone market.

Also, what definition is #1 or first to the market...Multitouch OS?

BINGO!!!

Good job!

Specifically, multi-touch OS on a small form factor, mobile communication device.

 

[-Trinity-]

You really are quite hooked on this new and great multitouch. Probably because it's your last line of defence. BWT. It's 25 years old technology and used lot on screens. Apple only has a trademark for the name. Anyone can use the age old technology, but they have to call it something else.

So please tell me what are the benefits of the multitouch screen in iPhone.
-zooming with akward move that requires two hands
-double tap
-anything else?

When I need to zoom while looking a web page or picture, I just move my thumb little. Only one hand needed. I wouldn't exchange ability to use finger AND stylus for multitouch. I rarely have to take out the stylus, but some things need it. Like when I'm playing Lucas Art classic games or Age of Empires and that kind of games. They ofter require clicking areas size of few pixels. I also edit graphics quite often with my phone. Impossible to do without stylus.

 

[MacQuest]

You really are quite hooked on this new and great multitouch.

It's the only small form factor, mobile communications device that has this feature and Apple is just getting started with implementing it's uses.

It's one of the features that makes the iPhone in it's current encarnation so original. More importantly though, it's the future capabilities that multi-touch input will bring that make it even more enticing.

Only on the iPhone. Brought to us by Apple.

I'm not on the defense here, you are. You're obviously getting frustrated because you can't overcome the fact that something so seemingly simple is such a dramatic improvement over years old single touch capability and it just burns you up that Apple brought it to the masses with it's first mobile phone.

Not nokia, sony-ericsson, motorola, samsung, LG, or any other of the established names in the industry.

You know why?

Think different.

Apple does, and did.

So please tell me what are the benefits of the multitouch screen in iPhone.
-zooming with akward move that requires two hands
-double tap
-anything else?

You're argument is unfounded and thinning. This is just as amusing as hearing "armchair commanders" who talk about something that they're not actually involved with.

HOLY Trinity! I forgot to ask!

Have you even actually used an iPhone? Are you in the U.S.? Or is that why you don't disclose your location in your username here on MacRumors?

Unless you've actually used an iPhone, you have no ground for debate other than uninformed speculation.

As for multi-touch movement, it isn't awkward at all. It's very intuitive, fluid, and an evolutionary step in technological interaction.

Also, it's only on the iPhone, by Apple.

When I need to zoom while looking a web page or picture, I just move my thumb little. Only one hand needed. I wouldn't exchange ability to use finger AND stylus for multitouch. I rarely have to take out the stylus, but some things need it. Like when I'm playing Lucas Art classic games or Age of Empires and that kind of games. They ofter require clicking areas size of few pixels. I also edit graphics quite often with my phone. Impossible to do without stylus.

Okay. So now we're talking in a civil manner.

My point with emphasizing multi-touch is that all those things that you just said you do with a single finger and sometimes a stylus, Apple is aware that many people do as well.

You say that it's impossible to do without a stylus. I say that we'll soon find out if multi-touch can actually make it possible.

The solution may or may not come from Apple. The point is that the technology was brought to us by them and with so many people developing so many apps for the iPhone already, who knows what the future will bring?

Either way, it'll be fun finding out.

 

[chatfan]

Wow some serious "i'll try to make a point eve if it makes no real point" fanboy ubernerd stuff is seriously pathetic.

Nokia joins in, hurray! That means G3 / GPS and any network you like and if you do take a $60/ month setup i'm pretty sure you get it for FREE.

But then again I don't live in a mobilephone third world country lol.

No doubt we also get a proper camera and video capaility.

 

[Sam0r]

Really.. who cares about Nokia's "iPhone ripoff".

It will probably be better than the iPhone, seeing as the iPhone is capable of so much more than Apple delivered.

Nokia have been in the phone business for like.. 20 years. Look at the Prada, thats a blatant iPhone rip and LG didn't get sued for that did they?

If someone wants the Nokia iPhone, then they'll get the Nokia iPhone, if someone wants the Apple iPhone, they'll get the Apple iPhone.

Personally I'm looking forward to the Nokia iPhone, seeing as the Apple iPhone is too expencive and locked to one network by default.

 

[joe8232]

I have to disagree with people who say the main features are the design and os. Well maybe not so much the design as that is fantastic. The OS however, I fail to see how it is OSX. I have a Mac running OSX and I can save files to it and open finder and install programs etc and to my best knowledge the iPhone can't do this so I fail to see how it is really OSX.

Also, is every new phone released with a touch screen now going to be called an iphone rip-off?

 

[GrooveMonsters]

did anyone else notice that "the hardware is not real and the LCD's images are overlaid. Yes, it's not even a working prototype"


Vaporware:
Nokia's Future iPhone Killing Concept Like a Fake, Vaporous Picasso

 

[spydr]

I see the Apple fan bois and apologists are out in force.

Every company copies from any one else...

..well, except Apple..

On the iPhone you can't even have your own custom ring tones.

Unbelievably:
you pay FULL PRICE for your iPhone and Apple STILL dictates what cell network you USE!!!!

How Retarded is that?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't see anything retarded in that -

1. I really like several among the gamut of ring tones the iPhone comes with - now if only badly itches uncontrollably to have a custom ringtone, there are ways that let you do it in few minutes - and save the outrageous $1.99 every other carrier is selling their obnoxious ringtones for.

2. There is no real choice for a GSM phone - the only other mentionable network is T mobile and their coverage is really embarrassing - I have had their phones for several years and I would be the only one to borrow a friends phone (Cingular or Verizon) to make a phone call home, when we are out hiking or on the road. So far, I have been very happy with AT&T coverage.

Both the issues are "ISSUES" only if one wants to blow them up to be.