NTSB Criticizes Apple After Fatal Tesla Autopilot Crash for Not Banning Employee Smartphone Use While Driving

[T-R-S]

Does McDonalds have a policy that prevents me from eating a Big Mac and driving my car too?
Give a freaking break - if you are going to get behind the wheel of the car is does not take a rocket scientist to figure out buckle up and put you f*****g cell phone down.

 

[CarlJ]

Murder is strictly against company policy here at Acme Corp. Not only is it against the law, we also consider it highly unethical. Acme Corp. reminds you that we will treat any violations of this company policy seriously.

Oh, sure, you come out against murder, yet your company cheerfully sells all manner of explosives, ill-conceived rocket-powered roller skates, giant slingshots, risky catapults, exploding birdseed, and pretty much any crazy device that one may try to use to do harm to another.

 

[Tech198]

Its dumb we all rely on tech these days that must always work 100%, then when it doesn't work that 1% of the time (and the reaction goes up depends on the serious nature of the cause), do we say "Well. you didn't do it right"

Its never OUR fault because while the car was on Auto-pilot it should have watched out for my sillyness. (playing iOS game with both hands)

Does McDonalds have a policy that prevents me from eating a Big Mac and driving my car too?
Give a freaking break - if you are going to get behind the wheel of the car is does not take a rocket scientist to figure out buckle up and put you f*****g cell phone down.

Well, all this, and huge fines are only NOW just becoming to tackle that exact issue.... Won't the police be ** when these cars come in and now, the exact opposite will be "ok" Things will go from "you must always pay attemtion to the road" to ""you just must be aware of your surroundings"

 

[cbaca51]

So dumb.

 

[waquzy]

All these ridiculous lawsuits are only possible in the United States of America.

 

[gnasher729]

He is either stupid or dishonest.

It is kind of difficult to keep the driver from doing things with their phone while allowing the passengers to do them.

 

[himanshumodi]

Thats a new low in being ridiculous. My company doesn't have a policy that I don't jump off cliffs, but I don't because I am an adult that doesn't want to die. Why would Apple have such a policy? Should they have a helmet with motorcycle policy? A don't drink don't drive policy? Companies are jobs, not our moms.

On that, one of the companies I worked for, actually had that policy. Sort of. They wouldn't let you enter company parking on your motorbike if you didn't have a helmet on. Very effective imo. I know I am very off-topic here.

 

[maerz001]

im so glad that as a freelancer I am allowed to use my mobile while driving

 

[mnsportsgeek]

Great response from Apple. Why do we need employers to have policies about laws that already exist? Does anyone's handbook prohibit mass murder?

 

[Supermacguy]

Wasn't this the guy who reportedly said to his wife "autopilot doesn't work on this part of the highway", YET he KEPT USING IT? This guy is guilty of his own death. .... If you KNOW something doesn't work right, but continue to use it acting like it does work, THAT'S ON YOU.

 

[cmaier]

All these ridiculous lawsuits are only possible in the United States of America.

the United States is also real big on non sequitors.

 

[nylonsteel]

interesting article
no disrespect to the engineer but what was the guy think playing a game on a phone - even with auto pilot on
my corporate vehicle safety courses are good

 

[I7guy]

interesting article
no disrespect to the engineer but what was the guy think playing a game on a phone - even with auto pilot on
my corporate vehicle safety courses are good

And what about the engineer who crashed the train in LA a few years ago (in 2008 in Chatsworth, who also died in the crash) due to cell phone use. Did the NTSB ream out the engineers employer?

 

[Huntn]

Regarding the title, that is a ridiculous Assertion.

“...who was using the autopilot feature of a Tesla Model X...”

Reading comprehension is key here.

Actually the key here is civility. That comment was not needed by any means unless your primary goal in the discussion is some combination of insult and starting fights in what should be a civil discussion.

 

[HiRez]

It is very common for employers to conduct pre-employment, random, and post-accident drug testing on employees performing safety functions (driving a forklift, operating machinery), in hospitals, law enforcement, etc. This is usually not directly required by law but is a company policy, potentially required by their insurers.

In the transportation and nuclear industries, laws require companies do this. For example, a trucking company or airline will have to have a drug testing program monitored by DOT and FAA.

So yes, many companies that hire blue-collar workers do indeed have policies on drug use, even legal substances like alcohol and prescription drugs.

Yes...but the point wasn't Apple telling employees not to do drugs, but telling them to not do really obviously stupid and dangerous things in general. In other words, things that no adult should need to be told. Playing a game on your phone while "driving" your car falls squarely into those categories. That's on him, not his employer. Unless his manager demanded he test games while driving home, which there is no evidence of, and I really doubt is the case. They might as well call out his parents for raising him poorly, but generally no one does that to 38-year-old adults because they're supposed to be responsible by that age.

I feel bad for his family and friends, but I'm just glad he didn't kill someone else with his stupidity.

 

[Huntn]

interesting article
no disrespect to the engineer but what was the guy think playing a game on a phone - even with auto pilot on
my corporate vehicle safety courses are good

The problem is that automation adds to complacency. I’m not that familiar with specific Tesla abilities, just know there have been several fatal accidents while people were in the driver’s seat entertaining themselves and not driving.

Until they can produce a car and compatible roads, imo steering assist or whatever they call it should be limited to collision avoidance, which includes a car that prevents the driver from tailgating. There should be no lane positioning or suggestion that this car has the ability to navigate from point A to B on it’s own.

 

[ThirteenXIII]

Apple will be blamed for passengers using iPhones and AirPods when on trains, planes or other vehicles they are not operating that are faulty or have accidents.

 

[Queen6]

Many companies have such policies in place to protect their employees, and to some extents themselves. Ever more electronic devices are component of peoples day to day work. Such policies prevent abuse by seniors and or clients due to employees not responding immediately to calls, messages etc.

In my own industry (energy) I would be very surprised to be contracted/employed by any company that didn't have a such a driving policy in place. NTSB is not out of place to criticise Apple as the employer does have a duty of care for the employee. In this case it was simply stupidity as Apple obviously never intended the phone to be used in such circumstance.

What the NTSB is pointing out is that Apple has no such policy, nothing more or less. Such a policy removes the onus from both the employee and employer simple as that, with the benefit of improving safety...

Q-6

 

[blacktape242]

Criticizes Tesla.... in a car which tells you each and EVERY time you enable AutoPilot to keep your hands on the wheel and eyes on the road and be prepared to take over at any moment.

The blame is solely on the driver, based on the information provided.

EXACTLY right there.

 

[Huntn]

Regarding the title, that is a ridiculous Assertion.

Actually the key here is civility. That comment was not needed by any means unless your primary goal in the discussion is some combination of insult and starting fights in what should be a civil discussion.

@Proffesor Rucy seems like you don’t take criticism well either.

 

[araadt]

A blanket policy like that, if implemented, would strictly be a CYA strategy for Apple to protect the company from potential liabilities—it would have absolutely nothing to do with "protecting" the employee. How deeply did you last read a company policies doc you were handed? It's all about the business.

 

[ctdonath]

"criticized Apple for not having a policy that prevents employees from using their iPhones while driving."

An employer has no obligation (legal nor otherwise) to inform employees that doing something well-known illegal & irresponsible off company premises in unusual non-company vehicles involving prohibited use of company equipment, is, of course, disallowed.

 

[konqerror]

Yes...but the point wasn't Apple telling employees not to do drugs, but telling them to not do really obviously stupid and dangerous things in general. In other words, things that no adult should need to be told. Playing a game on your phone while "driving" your car falls squarely into those categories. That's on him, not his employer.

Obviously stupid? The California government, pushed by tech companies like Apple permits use of cell phones as long as it's not handheld. They changed the law from a full ban.

Not only that, if he was caught illegally using a phone, it's a $25 non-point violation. Meanwhile illegal handicap parking is $250-$1000 plus fees and can be charged as a misdemeanor with jail of up to 6 months.

So the State of California doesn't seem to consider it very dangerous. Certainly less dangerous than making old people walk further.

A blanket policy like that, if implemented, would strictly be a CYA strategy for Apple to protect the company from potential liabilities—it would have absolutely nothing to do with "protecting" the employee. How deeply did you last read a company policies doc you were handed? It's all about the business.

Sounds like you come from a white-collar world where safety isn't a thing. A good friend of mine who works in a factory had a co-worker fired on the spot and escorted from the building because he failed to post a safety sign that he was working on a piece of equipment (tagout). Company policy explicitly said that it was required and left zero room for interpretation. If he had not fired the employee, he would be fired himself. That's how you protect the workers and the company.

 

[cmaier]

The problem is that automation adds to complacency. I’m not that familiar with specific Tesla abilities, just know there have been several fatal accidents while people were in the driver’s seat entertaining themselves and not driving.

Exactly. I had a loaner with autopilot for a little over a month, and I used it a lot to see what it could do. I found it very stressful. It's very hard to just sit there doing nothing for an hour commute, and at the same time very stressful because if there is an emergency it takes an extra beat for you to take over - you aren't already turning the wheel, just holding it, and you first have to say to yourself "time to take control," then you have to overcome a little bit of force from the steering wheel that is busy doing its own thing.

In the end, I much prefer actually driving the car. If the car can't be trusted to drive without me having to be in a perpetual state of getting ready to jump in, it's not of much use to me other than as a distance-keeping cruise control.

 

[hagjohn]

My company bans use of the company cellphone will driving. The victims could sue Apple if that employee was working while driving. It could also invalidate any insurance claim this employee or employees family would make/claim. Honestly, it doesn't take a genius to figure out why a no cellphone while driving policy should be instituted.