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jedifaka

macrumors regular
Sep 2, 2011
128
97
California
They should have gone with Android. It's such a no brainer. Lots of quality, affordable sets and even rugged options like the Galaxy active series. Windows phone never had a future. They were too late to the party and by then both iOS and Android were the only real game in town. They should have invested in surveillance software on Linux/Android instead but Windows still has a stranglehold in enterprise. It's also the OS that most people are comfortable using since it never required buying proprietary hardware to run it.

San Francisco PD began its rollout with a custom-hardened Samsung Galaxy S3. I haven't heard any complaints from officers: the phones are basically secure dumb terminals that access SF's dispatch back end via browser. I haven't checked in lately, but I don't think it's a stretch to assume they've upgraded their hardware since that initial, and reportedly successful, rollout.
The devices you want for this kind of application aren't necessarily the ones you'd buy for personal use.
 
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kdarling

macrumors P6
One person made this decision and screwed up the review process. She should have known better as the so called "tech expert" of the NYPD that a phone platform with a horrible market share compared to Android and iOS would eventually go defunct.

It's not uncommon for a single person to drive a purchase. Sometimes it works out. Sometimes not.

Hindsight is always 20-20, but at the point in time when she made the decision, nobody expected Windows Mobile to be abandoned by Microsoft.
 

mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
10,495
11,155
NYPD are making another mistake if they're buying that lemon iPhone 6 that's not durable due to cheap bendable aluminum, touch disease defect and deficient DRAM. Avoid the iPhone 7, too, because of crappy Intel baseband radio and worse reception unfit for emergency service. Go with the iPhone 6S.

Makes you wonder if they're getting a kickback wasting tax payers' money on purpose with bad decisions.
 

UL2RA

Suspended
May 7, 2017
999
1,617
So if they bought iPhones back in 2014 when they bought the windows phones, they wouldn't be replacing them right now?

Somebody needs to notify Tim Cook, 3 years is too soon to replace iPhones. His reliance on a 2 year update cycle is a disaster and Apple is Doomed.
They would have the iPhone 6, which still supports the latest OS. Microsoft abandoned their hardware. Apple didn't. That's why they're in this situation.
 

Chair-Sama

macrumors member
Jul 18, 2016
80
62
The article specifically mentioned the Windows phones were cheaper. Did you even read it?

Hence, if you go the cheap route, you'll pay more in the long run.

they ALSO said that they picked windows because they would work with their PRE-existing software that they already used for security footage from their manhattan command center.
they also said the reason they are switching is because of the discontinued support by Microsoft on the window 8.1 mobile software.
1. I'm sure if other phones at the time worked with their software the choice might have been different.
2. if microsoft did not cut off their support, they wouldn't have any reason to even consider getting new phones.
[doublepost=1503953007][/doublepost]
so lets say they switch to iPhones... does that mean they will upgrade the entire force every year to the next newer model up or do they keep them for a few years first?
why would they do this?
what sense does that make?
35,000 new phones every year?
[doublepost=1503953191][/doublepost]
The Xbox business is a rounding error in Microsoft's accounting. Azure is the rising star in their portfolio, but Windows and Office are still very big cash cows.
which is sad, microsoft took the one big potential they had to really grab a choke hold on a huge market, and they floundered it horribly(almost as bad as they did with the mobile phone market).
 

kdarling

macrumors P6
There is a lot less risk with iOS. Plain and simple that's what it comes down to.

There's even less risk with Android, because there's a wider choice in phones, features, and phone manufacturers. Plus they're usually available for less expense.

As someone mentioned, for field apps like this, the requirements are often quite different from general consumer use. They're usually more about ruggedness and cost, and support for a limited set of specific apps. Customization can be handy too. E.g. a custom launcher is possible.
 
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Sefstah

macrumors 6502a
Dec 21, 2015
589
1,066
NYPD: Ok Tim, we will buy 35K iPhone's if you create a "back door" for us.
Tim: DEAL!!!
 

sandbender

macrumors newbie
Aug 28, 2017
3
5
Why not a more modern BYOD approach?
I do consulting for the city (but not NYPD). There are at least three reasons:
  1. Many city employee unions have contracts that explicitly forbid the city from using BYOD, the rational being that they could be leveraged to have the employees work after hours or off the clock (which is a reasonable assumption).
  2. Any city agency that handles sensitive data like arrest records, investigation records, etc. probably has an internal policy banning BYOD because there's no way they can ensure the security of the devices.
  3. The city has limited resources and (depending on the number of devices) it's cheaper to just buy everyone the same device instead of developing/testing/supporting an app (or apps) that work on different flavors of iOS and Android.
 

TheShadowKnows!

macrumors 6502a
Sep 30, 2014
858
1,727
National Capital Region
Technicians don't steer enterprises. Executives do. While there are certainly platform zealots in technical roles, executive, C-level employees should definitely be beyond such things.
In my experience, enterprises will give great weight to the strategic recommendations made by Enterprise IT, which is populated, by these so call "computer science" experts.

Executives typically defer to their recommendations

As a consequence, Microsoft products, get selected regardless of demonstrable ease of end-use, ease of open-standards extensibility, and lack of proven long-term code stability.

That is what I have observed -- most likely than not.
 
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AppleScruff1

macrumors G4
Feb 10, 2011
10,026
2,949
What an absolute waste of tax payer dollars to have choosen windows phones.

This is the type of clueless leadership that doesn't clearly think through how to future proof their technology requirements and better equip officers with stable and functional tools.

You should file a complaint.
[doublepost=1503958450][/doublepost]
3 years of usage...they would have replaced the phones regardless of what manufacturer they chose.

Logic doesn't go over well here.
 

Misaki

macrumors regular
Oct 31, 2011
169
56
Not sure exactly what you mean.

How many times has the average person on this forum, myself included, paid for an iPhone? I bought the first gen iPad maxed out with 64 gig of flash and the cellular version; hardly being cheap there. And just a couple of years later it needed to be replaced.

NYPD apparently bought windows phones a few years ago in 2014 paying $160 million for 35,000 units. iPhone would have been in the same ballpark, they hardly took the cheaper way out, it's time to replace them now and they're choosing to buy iPhones. What does this have to do with a cheap person paying twice?


There's multiple contexts to "The cheap man pays twice"

For example in Android vs Apple, The iPhone is supported for 5 years where as the Average Android phone has a life of 18 months before the carrier drops it. This is not that different from Lenovo, Dell, Acer, etc never updating their laptops, it's just how these companies save money, and costs the customers more in support, and early obsolescence.

5 of my family members have Android devices, all because they were cheap, Two of them bought their phones because they lost or damaged a previous iOS device they've been using for years. Would I replace an iPad Pro with a Samsung tablet? No. I'm going to keep the iPhone until it's reasonable to replace it. Likewise I've considered replacing the 3rd generation iPad but what I use it for has so far been able to keep up, but Webkit based software and Unity-based software is sluggish, which means in the grand scheme of things, it would save more battery power in mobile devices to stop using jQuery frameworks and go back to engineering native C/C++/OBJC software.
 

win2008workstation

macrumors newbie
Aug 28, 2017
1
1



Less than a year after completing a rollout of Windows Phones to its entire police force, New York City Police Department officials plan to begin replacing them with iPhones by the end of the year, according to the New York Post.

nypd-windows-phone-800x448.jpg

Image: NYPD via YouTube

The report didn't specify whether the NYPD will opt to use one of Apple's latest iPhone models, or an older model like the iPhone 6. Apple is also widely rumored to announce the so-called iPhone 8 with an OLED display in September, although the high-end device may be out of the department's price range.

In October 2014, New York City mayor Bill de Blasio and other officials announced plans to roll out 35,000 handheld devices to every NYPD officer for the first time ever, along with tablets for every patrol car. De Blasio said the major $160 million initiative would help bring the department into the 21st century.

The NYPD's smartphones of choice were Nokia's Lumia 830 and Lumia 640 XL, released in October 2014 and March 2015 respectively. The since-discontinued devices run Windows Phone 8.1, which Microsoft ended support for in July to focus on its newer Windows 10 Mobile platform and cloud-based services.

The devices provide police officers with expanded search capabilities, including access to the majority of NYPD databases, and the ability to conduct various record checks from the field in a timelier manner. The devices also provide real-time 911 call data, often prior to radio dispatch, the department said in 2014.

The NYPD's choice of Windows Phones raised some eyebrows given iOS and Android combined have over 99 percent market share of smartphone operating systems, according to research firm IDC.

The department insisted on Microsoft-based smartphones in part because it was already using Microsoft software to run the video-surveillance program at its Lower Manhattan Security Initiative Command Center, according to the New York Post. The devices were also more affordable than iPhones.

A spokesman for the NYPD said the department wouldn't comment on the matter until its Deputy Commissioner of Information Technology Jessica Tisch returned from vacation later today, the report said.

Article Link: NYPD Expected to Replace 35,000+ Windows Phones With iPhones Starting This Year
[doublepost=1503965104][/doublepost](Just as an FYI I am a Windows Phone user, but I say this with an unbiased opinion as possible)

Social media is to blame for their incompetence of understanding the whole process. Everyone is under the impression that they are stuck with outdated phones, which can never be upgraded/updated, which is simply not true. The phones which they had issued (Lumia 830, Lumia 640) both are upgradable to Windows 10 Mobile which is in mainstream support until June 2019. If the phones were to ever die, Microsoft would have been responsible for replacing with like units so they would have received Lumia 650s or a similar OEM such as HP Elite X3, Alactel Idol 4S, Acer Jade Primo.

Microsoft's upcoming "Project Andromeda" which is the successor to Windows 10 Mobile will be fully backword compatible with existing apps either through emulation or ported using native tools, so the only question becomes will the hardware support be there? I would imagine some OEM would be willing to step in to provide hardware support if requested upon by NYPD.

Not knocking iPhones any bit, I think they are lovely phones and I think they will suit the NYPD lovely, but social media is just flat out wrong when it comes to the support structure of Windows Phones.
 
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BiscottiGelato

macrumors 6502
Mar 11, 2011
304
132
Not sure exactly what you mean.

How many times has the average person on this forum, myself included, paid for an iPhone? I bought the first gen iPad maxed out with 64 gig of flash and the cellular version; hardly being cheap there. And just a couple of years later it needed to be replaced.

NYPD apparently bought windows phones a few years ago in 2014 paying $160 million for 35,000 units. iPhone would have been in the same ballpark, they hardly took the cheaper way out, it's time to replace them now and they're choosing to buy iPhones. What does this have to do with a cheap person paying twice?

The bulk of the cost for the NYPD is not in the hardware. It's in the system behind the hardware and to integrate the phones into their existing ecosystem. Now they have to do that all over again from Windows Phones <=> NYPD backend, to iOS <=> NYPD backend.

NYPD would be an even greater fool if hardware replacement over the years every single year is not already part of the budget. Increase headcount, lost phones, broken phones, etc. Replacing at least a certain percent of the phones every year is a no brainer.
 

snipper

macrumors regular
Feb 9, 2004
233
30
You do realize the lifespan of these devices is only 2-3 years and that include idevices.

You and I may get up to 5 years but normal use and tech improvements mean an organization must upgrade everyone rather than each individual when that time arrives.

Other than the Windows phone being dropped by MS there's nothing new going on here, three+ years of service is normal.

You do also realize that it's not just the iDevices that need to be replaced now? All custom apps need to be re-written for iOS if they switch, while server side there will also be adjustments to be made. Apart from that, their complete IT department, help desk personnel, and each and every policemen needs to get used to a different phone and tablet. A lot of Macrumor-regulars probably wouldn't mind that, but the average policeman has other hobbies.
 

groovyd

Suspended
Jun 24, 2013
1,227
621
Atlanta
There's no why in heck they'd upgrade the phones every year! Maybe every 3 years or so.

I was thinking maybe for important customers like this Apple would have maintenance and upgrade deals where they swap out the older units to recondition and resale for newer units for some small cost each year to assure everyone is always up to date.
 

joeblow7777

macrumors 604
Sep 7, 2010
6,949
8,349
I was thinking maybe for important customers like this Apple would have maintenance and upgrade deals where they swap out the older units to recondition and resale for newer units for some small cost each year to assure everyone is always up to date.

Frankly, it doesn't seem worth the cost or the effort that that would require. All a police force will likely need is a secure and reliable communication and internet device. What's the point of swapping out thousands of devices every year to get a faster processor, and bells and whistles like facial recognition, wireless charging, slimmer bezels, or OLED displays? That would be like changing their fleet of squad cars each year just to have the nicest upholsteries.
 

batchtaster

macrumors 65816
Mar 3, 2008
1,031
217
The article specifically mentioned the Windows phones were cheaper. Did you even read it?

Hence, if you go the cheap route, you'll pay more in the long run.
You pay an inexpensive amateur to fix your roof, you'll have a professional back later to do it properly.
You buy a cheap-a$$ power drill, you'll be back buying a better one later.
You skimp on a new corporate application, you'll spend as much or more fixing it in a "phase 2" implementation, not to mention ongoing throughout its life - and probably again when you have to replace it ahead of its intended lifecycle.
Aka "you get what you pay for."
Seemed an obvious meaning to me. Not sure what the problem was.
 

architect1337

macrumors regular
Sep 11, 2016
129
180
So first - the 35mill deal wasn't just for the phones. Secndly, Windows phones were built by Nokia so were of a really good standard. Next, Windows phone (and Windows 10 mobile) is a very secure operating systems. All phones have TPM chips etc.,

For a user like the NYPD, they are going to want secure, well built phones that intergrate into their environment. They are probably going to lose / damage quite a lot of them so need a reasonable replacement cycle. Comparing Android with iOS with Windows Phone, it's fairly clear why Windows Phone won.

Some of the 'kids' on here have no idea how an enterprise works. All things considered, I think the Windows Phone was a good choice for NYPD at the time. Time moves on, and as Microsoft are exiting the phone space, NYPD are going to have difficulty getting new hardware so have to look around again.

I personally think supplying iPhones is a waste of taxpayer money but there is now little choice in the market with regards to security. Samsung's VP was recently jailed for bribery. No way could NYPD be associated with that.

Hopefully they get a good deal from Apple - for the taxpayers sake.
 

Aniseedvan

macrumors 65816
May 14, 2012
1,251
402
UK
So first - the 35mill deal wasn't just for the phones. Secndly, Windows phones were built by Nokia so were of a really good standard. Next, Windows phone (and Windows 10 mobile) is a very secure operating systems. All phones have TPM chips etc.,

For a user like the NYPD, they are going to want secure, well built phones that intergrate into their environment. They are probably going to lose / damage quite a lot of them so need a reasonable replacement cycle. Comparing Android with iOS with Windows Phone, it's fairly clear why Windows Phone won.

Some of the 'kids' on here have no idea how an enterprise works. All things considered, I think the Windows Phone was a good choice for NYPD at the time. Time moves on, and as Microsoft are exiting the phone space, NYPD are going to have difficulty getting new hardware so have to look around again.

I personally think supplying iPhones is a waste of taxpayer money but there is now little choice in the market with regards to security. Samsung's VP was recently jailed for bribery. No way could NYPD be associated with that.

Hopefully they get a good deal from Apple - for the taxpayers sake.


Agree - it's interesting many corporates still view phones as mobile versions of their computers & should have a comparable life-span. Android's fragmented updates mean that data or networks you consume or connect to may mandate you are up to date and patched (certainly is here in the UK for local govt), yet that Android phone you've just purchased from your reseller may only have 6 months worth of updates left in it as it's been on the market a year already.

I have nothing against Android; I purchased a Nexus One direct from Google and it knocked the iPhone3G out of the park. I've currently got a lumia 950XL as a work phone (that I own), which I like. Right now, iPhones seem the sensible choice. In 3 years time, Android could have pushed ahead enough that it'll be them...
 

convergent

macrumors 68040
May 6, 2008
3,034
3,082
Frankly, it doesn't seem worth the cost or the effort that that would require. All a police force will likely need is a secure and reliable communication and internet device. What's the point of swapping out thousands of devices every year to get a faster processor, and bells and whistles like facial recognition, wireless charging, slimmer bezels, or OLED displays? That would be like changing their fleet of squad cars each year just to have the nicest upholsteries.

Agree... and the Windows Phone environment is a good environment absent the lack of a full App Store.

The lack of apps is a benefit with this use case. These phones are for police business use. Can you imagine what the media will do to NYPD when one of these shiny new iPhones is used inappropriately and someone dies? "Police officer playing Candy Crush during stakeout causes distraction that leads to the death of 2 NYPD officers"... unless they heavily modify and lock down iOS it's too much of a playground. And we know how well Apple plays along with people wanting to modify iOS. Without knowing all the details I think going with Android where they could better control everything and create a custom ROM might have been better.
 
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