NYPD Expected to Replace 35,000+ Windows Phones With iPhones Starting This Year

[lowendlinux]

Agree - it's interesting many corporates still view phones as mobile versions of their computers & should have a comparable life-span. Android's fragmented updates mean that data or networks you consume or connect to may mandate you are up to date and patched (certainly is here in the UK for local govt), yet that Android phone you've just purchased from your reseller may only have 6 months worth of updates left in it as it's been on the market a year already.

I have nothing against Android; I purchased a Nexus One direct from Google and it knocked the iPhone3G out of the park. I've currently got a lumia 950XL as a work phone (that I own), which I like. Right now, iPhones seem the sensible choice. In 3 years time, Android could have pushed ahead enough that it'll be them...

In the same respect the IT folks could create an Android GM and push the updates out themselves. If I were the IT manager that's exactly what I'd do, I could remove all the unnecessary functionality and have complete control over what goes where and what tools are used.

 

[I7guy]

NYPD are making another mistake if they're buying that lemon iPhone 6 that's not durable due to cheap bendable aluminum, touch disease defect and deficient DRAM. Avoid the iPhone 7, too, because of crappy Intel baseband radio and worse reception unfit for emergency service. Go with the iPhone 6S.

Makes you wonder if they're getting a kickback wasting tax payers' money on purpose with bad decisions.

I don't wonder:
- no kickback at all
- special support contract
- longevity will reduce taxpayer expense
- NYC 5 boroughs has no coverage issues
- cell phones are not the preferred communication for emergencies communication between police , police broadband is.

 

[kdarling]

The bulk of the cost for the NYPD is not in the hardware. It's in the system behind the hardware and to integrate the phones into their existing ecosystem. Now they have to do that all over again from Windows Phones <=> NYPD backend, to iOS <=> NYPD backend.

If I read the source articles correctly, that's exactly why they chose Windows Phone in the first place: to continue to use tools they already had. So the decision made cost sense at the time.

Agree - it's interesting many corporates still view phones as mobile versions of their computers & should have a comparable life-span. Android's fragmented updates ...

iOS _needs_ OS updates to update the core apps. Android does not. Heck, even the anti-malware scanner is updated separately.

Moreover, field use != consumer use. Field devices can be used for years without requiring much updating, if at all. In fact, change is not something that is sought after, since it can cause unforeseen problems.

In reality, corporations use a variety of Android devices without much problem these days. If you have your own app, you're fine. If you're using HTML, then as long as you can download the latest webkit or browser, you're okay.

Samsung's VP was recently jailed for bribery. No way could NYPD be associated with that.

No, that wouldn't be a factor to anyone. Heck, the NYPD has its own rich history of problems.

 

[TheMacDaddy1]

Probably budget had some part on the decision by the NYPD.

But, from my enterprise experience, I place the blame squarely on: Untrained pseudo computer-science technicians.

These technicians rely solely on the Windows Domain, and on Windows deployments for the Enterprise.

Seldom do these technicians demonstrate solid skills, beyond Microsoft-centric courseware, and lack training on the foundation sciences of Computer Science.

Again, from my observations, these Enterprise IT "technicians" love anything that is stamped Microsoft, regardless of ease of end-use, ease of functional extensibility, and proven stability of the code.

Samples:

1. Windows Domain and Federation
2. Windows Sharepoint
3. ...
4. And now Windows Phone! <sigh>

These technicians are typically recalcitrant Microsoft fanboys, and drive blindly enterprise IT.

Yeah because Apple is all over Enterprise and Enterprise management tools. Over the last 7 years I have ripped out a lot of Apple "Enterprise" hardware that was abandoned by Apple. Apple server is a complete joke at this point. We have one left running on a maxed out Mini, maxed out as in i5, 16gig, 1TB hard drive.

Like it or not Active Directory out of the box can easily manage thousands of Windows computers with GPO/GPP's. Those GPO/GPP's have thousands of settings that can be pushed/pulled managed by a small staff. Lots of non-Microsoft Enterprise players support this model. We have Google Chrome as our default browser at my company, on Windows PC's and Mac's. Google provides GPO's for Active Directory.

To this article if they are using Microsoft Intune MDM to manage those Windows Phones, they can use the very same tools/infrastructure to manage their iPhones. Same goes for something like AirWatch. The MDM tools is probably not going to be re-purchased and money spent on it was not lost.
[doublepost=1504016848][/doublepost]

What is the name of this “secure bubble” software for mobile apps that you’re referring to? What sort of mobile VM is there that runs on all the mobile OS platforms?

All MDM software does this on mobile devices. Your "corporate" email goes into encrypted space on the device, controlled by the MDM software. My company uses AirWatch. Microsoft has "Intune" which supports WM, iOS and Android. If a user leaves the company we can wipe the corporate data without touching the rest of the device.
[doublepost=1504016986][/doublepost]

If Google/Alphabet ever comes out with a desktop version of Android, Windows will be toast.

Lol yeah? Can that desktop version run AdobeCC, Autocad, Financial software...etc....etc?
[doublepost=1504017301][/doublepost]

Changing an entire computing platform for a major organization like NYPD after just one year is not the same as you personally buying a new iPad just because you wanted something a little faster and lighter. It is such a false equivalency that it barely merits rebuttal.

The only real cost that might happen here is the porting of any custom applications from WM to iOS. If they were just using built in apps, browser, SMS, camera etc then there is probably no cost.

The device cost...was going to happen no matter what. Unless they built a customer MDM solution, their current MDM will easily support iOS or Android. We use AirWatch, and it is nothing to move a user from one platform to another, same tool, same bulk settings, same secure app store that they install apps from.
[doublepost=1504017556][/doublepost]

$160,000,000 / 35,000 = $4,571.42 per phone

The 160 million was quoted as part of their "Mobile Intuitive". Who knows what that means. It could also be other devices like GPS phones or some kind of new radios etc. Also any consulting, development etc, etc, etc. I bet those Windows Phones were cheap, and will probably be cheaper than what they spend on iPhones. Also we are talking government contract for NYC, which probably means serious back channel, good old boy, pay top dollar, for this project.

 

[groovyd]

Frankly, it doesn't seem worth the cost or the effort that that would require. All a police force will likely need is a secure and reliable communication and internet device. What's the point of swapping out thousands of devices every year to get a faster processor, and bells and whistles like facial recognition, wireless charging, slimmer bezels, or OLED displays? That would be like changing their fleet of squad cars each year just to have the nicest upholsteries.

yeah, I don't know how these big corporate deals work but i do know Apple would like people to trade in their old phones for new every year and might have a way to make it worth it for their customer since they can resell year old devices in other markets and still turn a profit. In fact I think it helps them stay competitive against the cheap phones out there.

 

[joeblow7777]

yeah, I don't know how these big corporate deals work but i do know Apple would like people to trade in their old phones for new every year and might have a way to make it worth it for their customer since they can resell year old devices in other markets and still turn a profit. In fact I think it helps them stay competitive against the cheap phones out there.

But that really isn't how big corporate deals work because unless Apple literally gives them new phones for free it's not usually worth the logistics and I.T. hassle for the customer, who usually just wants devices that will fulfill their purpose and do so for years without having to worry about replacing them. It's not like when you or I buy devices for personal use and enjoy getting new toys and using all the new features. In a corporate environment, if it ain't broke or obsolete to the point of being useless, you don't spend time and money replacing it. You'd probably find that the NYPD, like most offices, also has nothing but 5 year old PCs running Windows 7. Like many work places, they probably only just upgraded from XP a few years ago!

 

[rGiskard]

New exclusive feature for NYPD.

iBeat. Control your car and body cams directly from your iPhone! Activate in the Control Center or for quick access simply shake your phone up and down three times. iBeat instantly deactivates your car and body cams so you are ready to brutalize disobedient civilians anytime, anywhere.

 

[groovyd]

But that really isn't how big corporate deals work because unless Apple literally gives them new phones for free it's not usually worth the logistics and I.T. hassle for the customer, who usually just wants devices that will fulfill their purpose and do so for years without having to worry about replacing them. It's not like when you or I buy devices for personal use and enjoy getting new toys and using all the new features. In a corporate environment, if it ain't broke or obsolete to the point of being useless, you don't spend time and money replacing it. You'd probably find that the NYPD, like most offices, also has nothing but 5 year old PCs running Windows 7. Like many work places, they probably only just upgraded from XP a few years ago!

sure i see your point but consider there wasn't a negotiating company like apple on those pc that had the ability to recondition last years models and resell in other markets. i'm just thinking if i was the police force it would benefit me to have a always up to date maintenance contract for these devices otherwise i end up having to figure out how to sell off 3-5 year old devices on ebay and then end up paying again full price for the replacement phones when they do go out of date. i'm a police force not a device reseller is my thought and if apple can offer me some sort of refresh plan that works for both of us then i'd take it. and maybe they have that and maybe it isn't every year but every 2 or 3 perhaps, just wondering how these deals realistically work.

 

[joeblow7777]

sure i see your point but consider there wasn't a negotiating company like apple on those pc that had the ability to recondition last years models and resell in other markets. i'm just thinking if i was the police force it would benefit me to have a always up to date maintenance contract for these devices otherwise i end up having to figure out how to sell off 3-5 year old devices on ebay and then end up paying again full price for the replacement phones when they do go out of date. i'm a police force not a device reseller is my thought and if apple can offer me some sort of refresh plan that works for both of us then i'd take it. and maybe they have that and maybe it isn't every year but every 2 or 3 perhaps, just wondering how these deals realistically work.

I would guess every 3-5 years maybe, and a warranty covering them during that time. Replacing that many devices every year or two just isn't worth the trouble.

 

[lowendlinux]

sure i see your point but consider there wasn't a negotiating company like apple on those pc that had the ability to recondition last years models and resell in other markets. i'm just thinking if i was the police force it would benefit me to have a always up to date maintenance contract for these devices otherwise i end up having to figure out how to sell off 3-5 year old devices on ebay and then end up paying again full price for the replacement phones when they do go out of date. i'm a police force not a device reseller is my thought and if apple can offer me some sort of refresh plan that works for both of us then i'd take it. and maybe they have that and maybe it isn't every year but every 2 or 3 perhaps, just wondering how these deals realistically work.

I'd guess their leasing them like enterprises do with their computers. There are AASP's out there that do leasing and on site maintenance and can deal with the quantities that NYPD needs.

 

[slu]

I can't speak for NYPD, but I can for certain tell you at DHS our Windows Phones, issued around November of 2015, replaced our BlackBerry devices. And we had those for almost seven years.

Honestly, the only reason Research in Motion lasted as long as they did was because of pricey Verizon contracts and poor judgement (along with IT laziness) from the United States Government.

While this is probably accurate, let me just say that I work for a major international bank, and I just turned in my BlackBerry for my BYOD today.

 

[mudsoma]

It's a lot easier to have the officers use dept issued devices that can be setup with Mobile Device Management Software. They can deploy many more devices at once. All devices will have the same software. They can keep personal vs company issues completely separate. They would all be capable of FT/IM. Just a few things.

nah, put the onus on the officers and the carriers, leave the IT dept to develop a secure web portal which any device could access.

 

[bljwk1999]

What an absolute waste of tax payer dollars to have choosen windows phones.

This is the type of clueless leadership that doesn't clearly think through how to future proof their technology requirements and better equip officers with stable and functional tools.

[doublepost=1504082150][/doublepost]Unfortunately I see this all the time working for a government/local/state agency. There is such a waste of money, & time. Be it politically motivated or money pocketed/perks. It is very frustrating to see this happening over and over again. One way to possibly fix the issue would be to hold people more accountable for their decisions. With that being said, there is waste happening that is never reported. Or "we need to spend this or they will cut it next year" mentality. There are thresholds in place to keep things running as they have been. Curb Appeal- "As long as it looks good from the road, it does not matter how disheveled it is internationally"

 

[bjet767]

A lot of Macrumor-regulars probably wouldn't mind that, but the average policeman has other hobbies.

This is the easy side of the switch, but humans bring human there will be whining and gnashing of teeth

 

[akadafni]

nah, put the onus on the officers and the carriers, leave the IT dept to develop a secure web portal which any device could access.

It's better to train and operate with one system. IT can still create a portal. Putting the onus on the officers won't work especially if they have to BYOD and come out of pocket and wait for some type of reimbursement process which just creates more bureaucracy.

 

[jujufreeze]

What an absolute waste of tax payer dollars to have choosen windows phones.

This is the type of clueless leadership that doesn't clearly think through how to future proof their technology requirements and better equip officers with stable and functional tools.

Is supplying the police with $1000 iphone 8s with taxpayer money a good idea? Get them super basic, nonflashy functional phones for $200 or less, spend the rest on body cameras.

 

[tooltalk]

This is NYC, there was probably a kickback or payoff to someone.

or just really incompetent management. Their #1 job is to piss away taxpayers' money as quickly and needlessly as possible -- I used to work for one of the largest library systems in the city and saw the same there. Maybe Jessica Tisch's father can pay for the upgrade.

I am sure if they talked to Apple directly, they could get a deal on those phones.

like the one that the LAUSD had with Apple -- buy 100,000 iPad's, get 1 free?

 

[antoxicion]

There's even less risk with Android, because there's a wider choice in phones, features, and phone manufacturers. Plus they're usually available for less expense.

As someone mentioned, for field apps like this, the requirements are often quite different from general consumer use. They're usually more about ruggedness and cost, and support for a limited set of specific apps. Customization can be handy too. E.g. a custom launcher is possible.

Agreed, but from the IT perspective, multiple choices of hardware is a big NO. So I agree with whomever made the choice this time around for sticking with Apple. No one wants their IT department to support multiple hardware, software versions (since Android allows manufacturers to lock it down), and of course security. Additionally it would require more support costs if they had chosen Android.

As for ruggedness, Otterbox exists.

Edit: Forgot to mention that they also have to be within compliance. With Android, no one will ever be on the latest and greatest OS. But with iOS, that is feasible.

 

[groovyd]

I'd guess their leasing them like enterprises do with their computers. There are AASP's out there that do leasing and on site maintenance and can deal with the quantities that NYPD needs.

kinda what i was thinking. so do they normally swap out for new some percent of their user base annually?

 

[lowendlinux]

kinda what i was thinking. so do they normally swap out for new some percent of their user base annually?

They'll probably get on a cycle of around 35% a year

 

[Aniseedvan]

If I read the source articles correctly, that's exactly why they chose Windows Phone in the first place: to continue to use tools they already had. So the decision made cost sense at the time.



iOS _needs_ OS updates to update the core apps. Android does not. Heck, even the anti-malware scanner is updated separately.

Moreover, field use != consumer use. Field devices can be used for years without requiring much updating, if at all. In fact, change is not something that is sought after, since it can cause unforeseen problems.

In reality, corporations use a variety of Android devices without much problem these days. If you have your own app, you're fine. If you're using HTML, then as long as you can download the latest webkit or browser, you're okay.



No, that wouldn't be a factor to anyone. Heck, the NYPD has its own rich history of problems.

Change isn't sought after but assuming blue light services work in the US as they do in the UK they'll be obligated to ensure that the security updates actually get to the devices in accordance with their overall patching policy. I've sadly seen plenty of Samsung phones not get them that are only 6-12 months old, which starts making compliance to central bodies (PSN for example) require either isolation from trusted networks or as others have posted the likes of secure containers such as Airwatch's boxer app for mail.
It's all doable, but just requires the appropriate mitigations to ensure they keep the right side of their obligations.

 

[havon]

Why not a more modern BYOD approach?

They need a new IT department that why. Most likely its outsourced to India and they LOVE anything Apple
[doublepost=1536620192][/doublepost]

Why did they bother with Windows Phone to begin with?

Ran out of Walkie Talkies. But Folks. iPhones are not cheap and guess who is paying for this.
[doublepost=1536620274][/doublepost]

The cheap man pays twice.

DO you know you are paying for this ? If you pay taxes.