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lezer23 said:
At my apple store they have moved the powerbooks to the "photo" section and put the ibooks where the powerbooks used to be; "pro section"... :)

I was at my Apple Store today and noticed the exact same thing - the Tysons Corner mall in Virginia. Where are you?
 
12" PB Returned - Q's???

I just came back from our Apple Store: today was my last day to return the 12" PB I ordered using the Student Union iPod deals. I will be switching to my first Mac and can NOT begin to say how joyful an experience it was at the Apple Store. Unfortuntely, while there, I got seduced by the 15" PB (after swearing to myself that I would not spend more than for a 12"). The question I have from the group is that I will be dabbling in making Home DVD movies from my Sony miniDV camera and if I understand correctly, the 12" PB would not be powerful enough?? I've read the portability threads and still believe the 12" would have been better but if there is a "significant" difference and I won't be able to enjoy the movie making/dvd burning experience on a 12", will have to cough up some more $. So in a way my question related to the upcoming anticipated upgrades: do I dare dream of a 12" (13" wide screen) PB with enough VRAM etc that would shift the sweet spot from 15" to 12".
BTW, sorry if I sound a bit incoherent... will shamelessly admit that my eyes brimmed over with tears of joy when the Apple Store genius showcased Mac OS X and the beauty of it all.... ! :eek:
 
cyberdoc said:
I just came back from our Apple Store: today was my last day to return the 12" PB I ordered using the Student Union iPod deals. I will be switching to my first Mac and can NOT begin to say how joyful an experience it was at the Apple Store. Unfortuntely, while there, I got seduced by the 15" PB (after swearing to myself that I would not spend more than for a 12"). The question I have from the group is that I will be dabbling in making Home DVD movies from my Sony miniDV camera and if I understand correctly, the 12" PB would not be powerful enough?? I've read the portability threads and still believe the 12" would have been better but if there is a "significant" difference and I won't be able to enjoy the movie making/dvd burning experience on a 12", will have to cough up some more $. So in a way my question related to the upcoming anticipated upgrades: do I dare dream of a 12" (13" wide screen) PB with enough VRAM etc that would shift the sweet spot from 15" to 12".
BTW, sorry if I sound a bit incoherent... will shamelessly admit that my eyes brimmed over with tears of joy when the Apple Store genius showcased Mac OS X and the beauty of it all.... ! :eek:



no. apple always shamelessly cripples the 12" machines with limited capabilities. it will always have an inferior graphics chip which if you are making movies with FCP or even iMovie HD, the more professional graphics chip in the 15" will suit you much better... (i mean, look now... fx5200 in the 12" and radeon 9700 in the 15? how lame is that? fx5200 is crap) not to mention things like no gigabit (how much do gigabit chips cost now? there is no excuse for this)
also, the 15" has more ports, FW800, a monitor port in addition to s-video output (either/or on 12") and better expansion capabilities.
save your pennies and get the 15"...
 
cyberdoc said:
The question I have from the group is that I will be dabbling in making Home DVD movies from my Sony miniDV camera and if I understand correctly, the 12" PB would not be powerful enough??

Nah, that's not true at all. I produced an hour long holiday video from a Sony miniDV camera with iMovie Hd and iDVD on a 1.33GHz 12" PB with just 256MB RAM. That included using effects, transitions, titles and a full musical score. :)

I'd suggest more than 256MB but I had no trouble making the movie on the 12". It was SO much better than trying to do it on my 1.5GHz Pentium machine with 4 times the RAM. I was amazed by how easy the whole thing was so I can't even say that it was a struggle.

Using FCP may be a different story though.

I've no doubt that things would be quicker on the 15" with a faster CPU and GPU but I wouldn't consider the 12" a handicap.
 
Evangelion said:
G5 portable would make no sense. Here are the facts:

Low-power G5 runs at 1.2 - 1.6GHz. The 1.6Ghz model consumes 16w of power. 7448 G4 consumes under 10w and runs at 1.5 - 2.0Ghz. Also, G5 has 512KB of L2-cache, while 7448 has 1MB of L2-cache. Yes, G5 has faster bus, but the CPU itself is slower than G4 is, clock for clock (BareFeats (IIRC) had a benchmark of 2GHz G4 vs. 2Ghz G5. The two were about as fast, with G5 being usually slightly faster. With faster bus and doubled cache, the G4 would be faster). 7448 has 200Mhz bus and the increased L2-cache helps to reduce the impact of slow bus.

Yeah, I realize the 7448 would probably be a better easier choice for Apple.

The reason I suggest a G5 is because I figured Apple has spent a great deal of R&D money on a G5 PB already. Which means they could have redesigned the MB for a G5 chipset to support a PCI-Express subcard GPU. Also the G5 FSB can run at half the CPU speed, supports 64 bit for more memory access and hard disk direct access mapping, better implemented Altivec, and has much better floating point performance compared to the G4. For scientific work this makes a difference to me, better precision with better speed.

Having said all that I would be thrilled with a 7448 update as I am in need of a new laptop now. My 867Mhz TI just developed a logic board fault and I want another PPC PB to ride-out the Intel transition/success or failure.
 
You know, earlier I was thinking now way would we ever see G5 powerbooks, but now that I think about it... I wouldnt be surprised if Apple announced them based on the processors that were introduced by IBM about 2 months ago. One more thing... to be could definantly be the first 64 bit notebooks... at least i think they're the first...
 
click this


This is the kind of thing I mean.... I mean power to price ratio....exactly why I haven't bought a PowerBook yet. I am using Windows now primarily until Apple stops slacking....and if they don't shape up I am thinking OSX shouldn't be worth it. Yes a great OS, but for the money and crap hardware it isn't worth it. Especially since Windows has slowly buy surely been getting more stable, and not including my great firewall that keeps out pretty much everything.
 
g0gie said:
You know, earlier I was thinking now way would we ever see G5 powerbooks, but now that I think about it... I wouldnt be surprised if Apple announced them based on the processors that were introduced by IBM about 2 months ago. One more thing... to be could definantly be the first 64 bit notebooks... at least i think they're the first...

Actually, AMD has 64 bit chips in a bunch of laptops.
 
iQuit said:
click this


This is the kind of thing I mean.... I mean power to price ratio....exactly why I haven't bought a PowerBook yet. I am using Windows now primarily until Apple stops slacking....and if they don't shape up I am thinking OSX shouldn't be worth it. Yes a great OS, but for the money and crap hardware it isn't worth it. Especially since Windows has slowly buy surely been getting more stable, and not including my great firewall that keeps out pretty much everything.

YOU'VE GOT TO BE SERIOUS!!!!!!!



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Are You Being Serious?

You are comparing that Gateway 2.8ghz P4 to a PowerBook. That thing is half an inch thicker, uses a P4 chip in a laptop (aahhhhhh =1hr battery life). Integrated Graphics. And then you try and tell us that a PowerBook is crap hardware.

The PowerBook may not be in its' prime at the moment, but sorry mate that Gateway laptop has never been at its' prime. If you're not happy to pay the premium for a superior product, well don't. Go buy a Gateway 7320GZ, just make sure you have plenty of Norton and a powerpoint near by.

Mac's aren't for everyone
 
Alpha, SPARC,....

g0gie said:
... to be could definantly be the first 64 bit notebooks... at least i think they're the first...
Alpha and SPARC 64-bit notebooks have been available for 10 years or so.... And today (as noted) AMD has a range of 64-bit chips in notebooks.

Of course, it makes sense to have an x64 notebook - even though you can't use 64-bit addressing the system is faster using 64-bits than 32-bits.

Except for some rare cases, the G5 isn't faster in 64-bit mode than in 32-bit mode.
 
JRM PowerPod said:
YOU'VE GOT TO BE SERIOUS!!!!!!!

You are comparing that Gateway 2.8ghz P4 to a PowerBook

Don't forget that this "powerful, lightning-fast Gateway Model 7320GZ laptop" comes with an 80Gb 4200rpm HDD ( :eek: ) and has memory expandable to 1Gb ( :eek: )

iQuit said:
This is the kind of thing I mean.... I mean power to price ratio....exactly why I haven't bought a PowerBook yet
That Gateway would be better compared to the iBook if you are after a "power to price ratio" comparison
 
steve_hill4 said:
Could mean HD on PowerBooks though and the video out on the aiport express.

gleepskip said:
I don't understand the curtains metaphor on the invitation if the event is to announce new PowerPC products.

A video-capable iPod, iTunes Video Store, or a home media box seems more likely to me.

Sorry, I'm a n00b. :)
BUT, any sane business strategy talks against Apple launching another G5 powermac with DDC technology. People are gonna get confused and only the hardcore maccer will stay sane in that evolution.

Apple won't launch DDC with powermacs. I hardly believe they will upgrade it at all. Maybe some bogus features down the road. Like Aiport Extreme 2 or something. But I believe Jobs is pulling the company FORWARD! where the others have yet to accomplish what he has accomplished today.

I believe video ipod and itunes video will be essential in the next steps for Apple. The Intel move killed some of the iPod halo Apple had on the stockmarket. And investors are shaking 'cus they don't know how the common user will handle the "intel inside" badge in 06.

The PowerBook might see a freescale upgrade with G4 DualCore processors around 1.7ghz as other sites have mentioned.
But putting money and development into products that will have a dead architecture in 6-12 months is just plain insane.

The Nano was a step jobs took to really kill the Mp3 player marked. Creative and Sony are so far behind now that I don't really believe they can do anything with it. people don't talk about MP3 players, it has simply just become, an iPOD. the term is a trained and tought word on the street. And the Video iPOD (vPOD), will be the next dinosaur on Apple's roadmap to conqer the home entertainment marked.

Not only will the video department save the stock value. It will also smoothen the rough until the Mactel computers arrive.

Another thing is that eMAC won't have any future. The CRT production has almost come to a halt, and the LCD technology has become so cheap that launching a eMAC based on LCD will send it straight into competition with it's older brother, iMAC.
In future when x86 is in place a crippled eMAC with LCD is possible. 17", with iMACs on a standard 20" up to 23".
For now Apple don't have any processors to fit into any new eMAC.

And one thing I'm really worried about is that the entry level mac, the Mac Mini is way too slow to really give new users a smooth switch ride. I personally got the mac mini as my first mac. It was HORRIBLE, I sold it and faced the fact that I needed more power. Not until I got to G5 dual I got the same ride that I had with my AMD powered 3700+ Athlon64.

Anyway...
I just believe that Apple should stay focused on wrapping up the entertainment package. Giving us consumers products that makes it easier to watch movies from a computer/ipod on a TV. or listening to music on a big stereo system.

the PC has a huge problem with standars and identity, no PC based company can standardize a technology that will get the whole industry to follow.
The PC market is saturated by low-cost brands that suck the whole platform into a black hole where development is nearly impossible. The focus stays on graphic cards and cpu upgrades ALONE. No new invention or ideas are likely to survive. And the cost for HP alone to market a new gadget on their computers is a waste 'cus then the other makers will just slightly change it, rename it and play the same idea over. And then you have 100 brands with the same gadget that does the same, but does not work together.

Again, this is Apple's big move. They can set a standard for home entertainment and enable "stupid" people who don't know how to download codecs, VNC, divx hacks and cheats to get to watch a frickn downloaded movie on their TV. :) Admit it, trying to watch a downloaded movie on a PC is a nightmare!
With QuickTime users won't have the problem.
With iTunes the interface is already done, and it's an industry STANDARD.

Airport Extreme 2, HD technology, iPOD, media center (mac mini) are names of the future. And NOT DualDualCore G5.

just my 2 cents.....
 
Of course it could be done... but how long did it take?

nomad01 said:
Nah, that's not true at all. I produced an hour long holiday video from a Sony miniDV camera with iMovie Hd and iDVD on a 1.33GHz 12" PB with just 256MB RAM. That included using effects, transitions, titles and a full musical score. :)

From capture in iMovie to encoding and burn in iDVD, how long did it take you? :rolleyes:
 
New Airport Extreme???

I really think that Apple is going to announce a new Airport Extreme where the speed is doubled than the old Airport Extreme 54 Mbps. A lot of the competitors in the wireless industry have introduced the 108 Mbps plus newer wireless technology such as MIMO. So far, Apple really have not done anything to compete with that. I have got to assume that it is the wireless technology announcement. I am very hestitant in buying the old Airport Extreme 54 Mbps
 
0423379 said:
The PowerBook might see a freescale upgrade with G4 DualCore processors around 1.7ghz as other sites have mentioned.
But putting money and development into products that will have a dead architecture in 6-12 months is just plain insane.

Nothing insane with ridding out the PPC; especially since Apple has already spent a grip of change in R&D AND there won't be many native Pro Apps initially available at the time of the switch.

A lot of people, myself included, have shot down the notion of an MPC8641D making its way into a final PB revision but now I'm having second thoughts when it comes to my fantasy of one last kick @$$ PB revision before the intel switch. According to Freescale the MPC8641D has been sampling since Feb 05. If, in fact, Freescale does mass produce the MPC8641D this month... I think we might see a final Dual Core PPC G4 revision for the Pro Line PB. IBM announced availability of the dual core PPC G5 slightly before Freescale... if people are so willing to believe a dual core PM will make its way out of the door... then a dual core G4 PB isn't so far fetched.(okay it is... but i'm playing diablo's advocate) Assuming Apple was simply waiting for Freescale to finally start mass-producing the MPC8641D... hold off dual core G5 PMs until dual core G4 PBs was a possibility...

MPC7448 for the 13" widescreen PB

MPC8641 for the 15" PB

MPC8641D for the 17" PB with a WUXGA

OK, the peyote is wearing off now.... MPC8641D's not going to happen. :mad:

www.freescale.com/files/abstract/overview/FTF_TN102.pdf
http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/library/pa-nl12-calendar.html
 
ZorPrime said:
Nothing insane with ridding out the PPC; especially since Apple has already spent a grip of change in R&D AND there won't be many native Pro Apps initially available at the time of the switch.

A lot of people, myself included, have shot down the notion of an MPC8641D making its way into a final PB revision but now I'm having second thoughts when it comes to my fantasy of one last kick @$$ PB revision before the intel switch. According to Freescale the MPC8641D has been sampling since Feb 05. If, in fact, Freescale does mass produce the MPC8641D this month... I think we might see a final Dual Core PPC G4 revision for the Pro Line PB. IBM announced availability of the dual core PPC G5 slightly before Freescale... if people are so willing to believe a dual core PM will make its way out of the door... then a dual core G4 PB isn't so far fetched.(okay it is... but i'm playing diablo's advocate) Assuming Apple was simply waiting for Freescale to finally start mass-producing the MPC8641D... hold off dual core G5 PMs until dual core G4 PBs was a possibility...

MPC7448 for the 13" widescreen PB

MPC8641 for the 15" PB

MPC8641D for the 17" PB with a WUXGA

OK, the peyote is wearing off now.... MPC8641D's not going to happen. :mad:

www.freescale.com/files/abstract/overview/FTF_TN102.pdf
http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/library/pa-nl12-calendar.html

you prolly got me on the tech department. I'm just sticking with marketing and those things ;) hehe...

remember that the CORE CORE pro users as your self. Will have to deal with what you have until the switch is final.
Don't think Apple will put in money into the 3% of it's buyers since the growth isn't in the PowerMac area. Just guessing tho...

But I do believe a powerbook update is needed and planned. like you said, the R&D has prolly been around for a while. The FSB change and memory upgrade can't be that hard either. Now we just have to wait and see IF the PowerMacs will get the update. I doubt it. When I even doubt the Powerbook update. :) The PowerMacs have had their update. 2.3/2.7, now it's turnover time for Powerbooks! let it be so! :D
 
Look for Tuesday

**Sorry in advance, but this post went on longer than I'd anticipated**

Look for Tuesday to be the big indicator. For the past little while Apple's updates have been arriving on Tuesdays. Should we see press releases on Tuesday detailing new PowerMacs and PowerBooks then hold onto your hats because Wednesday is going to be chocked full of new stuff. If we don't see anything new on Tuesday then (sad to say) the Wednesday event is going to be about product updates.

So what is most likely at this point in time? Well something does strike me odd that this is more than a PM/PB update. The conference call next week occurs earlier than normal. Normally Apple's release of the quarterly result occurs on the same week that intel does and that options expire, but not this time. The announcements have been moved up more than a full week! SJ takes every opportunity for free advertising (and who can blame him). It seems Tuesday-Wednesday is going to be a 1-2 punch marketing promo for Apple. If Apple releases new PM/PB updates on Tuesday that gives him free time during the analyst conference call to do his little spiel on the new machines. That leave Wednesday open to let loose the flood gates on a new product.

So why is Apple likely to release something really special on Wednesday?

I don't think SJ is likely to hype the PPC anymore. He has made it clear that the future is x86. What is he going to do, go on stage and show a PPC thrashing an Intel when he said they are moving to Intels 'cause it was faster... but wait the Intel was faster a couple of months ago... and then it will be faster in 8 months... That would look just darned stupid and SJ doesn't like to look stupid. It is likely that he'll talk about the PPC upgrades at the conference call, calling them fantastic machines to meet the needs of Pro users. Pro users know what a dual core chip is and don't need a special event. The second they are announced the Apple store will be flooded.

This announcement has to outshine the Nano. SJ is a showman, and you don't do an act with your A material, and hype people up and show them B material as a finale. Don't get me wrong, I want a dual-dual as much as the next silicon blooded nerd, but he has sent out a special invite to the press (and not just the Mac press). If all the press gets is faster Mac hardware (however worthy), they are not going to be impressed.

My personal belief is that you will see the iPod AV, aka iPod Video, aka iPod Movie, aka the shove-it-in-your-face-you'd-sell-off-the-company-and-give-the-money-back-to-the-shareholders-you-stupid-piece-of-snot-Michael-Dell.

Why? Well the iPod nano is the ultimate form for the music iPod. You cannot realistically get any smaller with the scroll wheel. You can't get any thinner. Flash storage capacity will increase drastically over the next year or two providing all the storage MOST people will need for the music they wish to carry with them. Regular iPod sales were lagging to the mini and shuffle before the nano - they should be sliding even further now. So the full size iPod needs a new trick to exist. Video.

Yes SJ has said there is no market for portable video players. But there is no market because nobody has done it right. Other makers of these devices have been only working on the single device. Apple's current trend is to make the whole widget work for you. So you need more than just a video playing iPod. You need a dockable video capable airport express. This would allow you to play videos either on your iPod or on your TV. Additionally you could stream content from your computer to your TV.

So are you going to be able to buy Movies and every episode of the Simpsons via an iTunes Music/Movie/Media store starting Wednesday? No, not yet. The movie studios are going to be a little cautious taking these steps. You will be able to buy music videos. This will be the test market. Prove to the studios that you can protect their content and then they'll give you access

So there you go! A reasoned approach to what will happen. Of course that does leave 2 loose tails.

1) Product mix. SJ like 3 lines of everything.
Desktops - PM, iMac, mini (eMac is dead in his eyes)
iPods - shuffle, nano, full size (soon to be AV)
Portables - PB, iBook, ????

2) When apple introduced the airport express the big thing was remote control of the the unit. When asked at the analysts conference shortly after its release SJ mentioned that they were looking into that.

Could it be that the remote for this product could fit into the missing portable slot? Man may never know....
 
0423379 said:
you prolly got me on the tech department. I'm just sticking with marketing and those things ;) hehe...

I agree with you. It always boils down to the bottom line, $$, ¢¢, ££, or ¥¥. ;)

0423379 said:
remember that the CORE CORE pro users as your self. Will have to deal with what you have until the switch is final.
Don't think Apple will put in money into the 3% of it's buyers since the growth isn't in the PowerMac area. Just guessing tho...

I'm a poser. :eek:

0423379 said:
But I do believe a powerbook update is needed and planned. like you said, the R&D has prolly been around for a while. The FSB change and memory upgrade can't be that hard either. Now we just have to wait and see IF the PowerMacs will get the update. I doubt it. When I even doubt the Powerbook update. :) The PowerMacs have had their update. 2.3/2.7, now it's turnover time for Powerbooks! let it be so! :D

Well said. I aggree. :cool:
 
Sorry for my previous ignorant post. I saw the processor and didn't check out the other things, nonetheless it pisses me off to see a 2.9 GHz processor in a WINDOZE laptop. I like Mac but I am not a guy that can be affording computers all the time, I need a good one to last a while that is powerful and can keep up with the future( at least a while). The PowerBook as it stands will be obsolete when new HD technology comes out and is already not so fast on major video editing. It isn't a "true desktop replacement". The thing that conscerns me is waiting since March for them to upgrade them and they still haven't. I switched to Mac last September and haven't used Windows since recently but I love it, just the Profession portable line(what I need) is weak. So that is all I have to say and I think others can agree.
 
iQuit said:
Sorry for my previous ignorant post. I saw the processor and didn't check out the other things, nonetheless it pisses me off to see a 2.9 GHz processor in a WINDOZE laptop. I like Mac but I am not a guy that can be affording computers all the time, I need a good one to last a while that is powerful and can keep up with the future( at least a while). The PowerBook as it stands will be obsolete when new HD technology comes out and is already not so fast on major video editing. It isn't a "true desktop replacement". The thing that conscerns me is waiting since March for them to upgrade them and they still haven't. I switched to Mac last September and haven't used Windows since recently but I love it, just the Profession portable line(what I need) is weak. So that is all I have to say and I think others can agree.

I'd say the Pro Apps that you are using, Quark, PhotoShop, KeyNote, etc etc. for whatever use it may be. The G4 1.67 will still outperform most laptops in it's class. (Laptops between 1500-2200) bucks. and it will DEFINATLY outperform any 17" laptop.

Keep in mind, The Athlon64 processors have their weaknesses. They are not APPS strong like the Intel cpus. (hence Apple goes Intel). It's a pro CPU. Not a gimmick gamer cpu with ********s of gaming grunt.
(my brother works for a major gaming company and they said AMD cpu's are worthless for working 'cus they are tweaked for benchmark and gaming performance) (long n boring story).

Intel has their Dothan. It's a killer CPU. Some ppl converted the laptop based CPU into a desktop. And got so good results Intel scrapped the P4 (the project name escapes my mind) in favor of a Dothan based desktop CPU.

Now... IF we get a FSB bump to DDR2. Then Apple is up there with DualCore G4. it's still safe to say that ANY powerbook today will run circles around any X86 based laptop trying to run photoshop.

My friends old PISMO is faster than my dad's Centrino/Dothan based 1.7ghz in photoshop. ;)

And keep in mind, centrino is just a bogus marketing game/name. Some of the Centrino promoted laptops are so crippled it's comparable to an iBook in performance.

Take a look at Dells superlinup. The machines weigh a TON!! the screens are POOR! and the ergonomics are like ****! Fujitsu-Siemens, Acer and HP are so behind still. The 17" HP is like a dinosaur. My dad has a 15." inch wide HP and he wants to get rid of it 'cus the 1.7ghz dothan with Radeon 9600pro won't do it in PowerPoint. Whereas the PBs and KeyNote will KILL it's competitors.

the ONLY real competitor is Acer's Ferrari machine. and it's EXPENSIVE. the X700 card it features has 128mb of memory. and a Thurion 3700+ running 333mhz FSB. it's not killer news! like I mentioned before, PCs are based on CPU/Graphics specs. Take a look under the hood and the drives are second hand, the screens are second hand, and so are the internal architectures. almost like handmedowns... :p
 
ZorPrime said:
From capture in iMovie to encoding and burn in iDVD, how long did it take you? :rolleyes:

What a pointless exercise that would be. :rolleyes: iMovie capture won't happen any faster. It captures in realtime from the Sony camera. Time won't move faster with a better CPU.

It took me a few days to put together the video so again another pointless timing exercise. It took as long as it took. A faster CPU would only have had a bearing when I was applying effects, titles and such. We're talking minutes... maybe an hour overall at most. Cutting and pasting the clips around in iMovie didn't see any delays.

The only time when any real gain could be made is the final encoding stage. That just takes time. The difference in speed between the two Powerbooks isn't going to make THAT much of a difference though. Even if it's 30 percent faster, it's still going to take a time. Not an exercise you'd want to sit and wait to finish... even on a Powermac!
 
Well the UK store is now showing 5days -2-3weeks on 15inch powerbooks and higher but the 12in is still on 24hrs. So if there are updates I bet the 12in isnt included.

I've got a 12in pb here but its going to have to go back due to warping if I return it after an update do I get the new version or a refurbed one?
 
I agree and thanks also for the info Cablejump-JOHN

a456 said:
The Apple Store UK currently has a 2-3 week wait for 15" Superdrive Powerbooks suggesting that it might well happen.
I agree, and I wanted to thank Cablejump-John for the information. Will just wait and see meantime I will take your advice. Very gracious of you to help me out in London.
 
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