Ok people why the hate on apple laptop

[Mal]

An 81% markup is not ripping people off?

Source? In head-to-head comparisons with identical specs, Macs are rarely more than $100 more expensive than the closest competitor's machine, and usually there are several specs that can't be exactly matched (at the very least, OS X and the aesthetics). Often, the Mac is actually the better deal.

They simply don't offer low-end configurations. They are not ripping anyone off, however.

jW

 

[Eddyisgreat]

Lots of people rip on macs because they don't realize how flexible they are, perhaps not in terms of hardware (although thunderbolt will change that), but allowing us to have our choice of OS, or if we really need to, use multiples at the same time.

For instance someone will ask me about a specific application, then look at my machine and say "oh nevermind your on a MAC" (you know how they say it ). I simply say "so what?" and go to my dedicated Windows XP OR Windows 7 VM in the 2nd or third spaces running full screen, full speed.

People get pretty nervous when they see a skilled MAC user in action, flipping between environments, or perhaps using terminal. They start to panic, wondering "WTF is this guy doing with a MAC when I thought only Windows users could operate a computer...and why is this MAC not in a coffee shop?!??! What's going on!".

And yes before someone comes in and says "durr eddy MAC stands for Media Access Control har har I think you meant Mac durr", i'm fully aware of the difference, so thanks.

 

[jasin]

Source? In head-to-head comparisons with identical specs, Macs are rarely more than $100 more expensive than the closest competitor's machine, and usually there are several specs that can't be exactly matched (at the very least, OS X and the aesthetics). Often, the Mac is actually the better deal.

They simply don't offer low-end configurations. They are not ripping anyone off, however.

jW

Add up what the components inside your mac cost to buy and/or build and then divide by the price the mac is sold for.

Lots of people rip on macs because they don't realize how flexible they are, perhaps not in terms of hardware (although thunderbolt will change that), but allowing us to have our choice of OS, or if we really need to, use multiples at the same time.

No offense, but thats a pretty bad argument because any OS you can install on a mac you can also install on a PC. Macs are Pcs anyways. If they were not you would not have these OS choices to begin with. Back in the G4 days, for example, you could not install Windows on a Mac. Now with Macs having Intel cpus, PC architecture, you can.

 

[fat jez]

Add up what the components inside your mac cost to buy and/or build and then divide by the price the mac is sold for.

So what value do you place on hardware design, marketing, OS development, etc? You can't just look at the base costs and say that's the margin

 

[iLog.Genius]

No offense, but thats a pretty bad argument because any OS you can install on a mac you can also install on a PC. Macs are Pcs anyways. If they were not you would not have these OS choices to begin with. Back in the G4 days, for example, you could not install Windows on a Mac. Now with Macs having Intel cpus, PC architecture, you can.

Last I checked, you couldn't install Mac on Windows/PC rig without tweaking and I think that's what Eddy was getting at. Out of the box, a Mac could be that all-in-one computer for someone that can run different environments without any tweaking.

 

[jasin]

So what value do you place on hardware design

Apple does not design most of the hardware in their systems. Apple never has designed, for example, the i5 and i7 cpus, the Nvidia AND intel gpus, SSD drives, dram memory, etc. All that stuff is standardized and built by 3rd party manufacturers now a days.

Apple has basically outsourced most everything to do with their hardware, in assembly, to Asustek, Foxconn, etc. and people like that.

The only thing apple is really doing in house anymore as far as hardware goes is designing the layout of the components, selecting color of cases, selecting material for cases, choosing the exact components that go into the system, etc. Basically they are doing cosmetic work and specs refinement, nothing more.

Pc companies btw, do the same. They tell some manufacturer like Asustek or someone else what they want and they put it all together for them. This is the way everything as gone with computers in the USA. Everything is outsourced now. The Same Chinese and Taiwanese factories that build your Macs are the Same factories that build those Pcs. That is a fact that cannot be denied.

 

[xriderx11]

I love the Apple the products.
I hate the cult-style and the monger for total control.
I hate the people loving the Apple products.

There was an article in the newspaper the other day, describing findings from some professor who had found that people devoted to Apple displayed the same type of brain activity as deeply religious people do.

I have never come across such devotion to a brand, ever.

I have an addiction... I find apple godly lol


Sent from my iPhone4 using Tapatalk

 

[Mal]

Add up what the components inside your mac cost to buy and/or build and then divide by the price the mac is sold for.

I do believe that's the least intelligent argument I've seen yet. Get back to us once you understand basic business.

jW

 

[fat jez]

The only thing apple is still really doing in house as far as hardware goes is designing the layout of the components, selecting color of cases, selecting material for cases, choosing the exact components that go into the system, etc.

That is still design, however you belittle it.

 

[Eddyisgreat]

No offense, but thats a pretty bad argument because any OS you can install on a mac you can also install on a PC. Macs are Pcs anyways. If they were not you would not have these OS choices to begin with. Back in the G4 days, for example, you could not install Windows on a Mac. Now with Macs having Intel cpus, PC architecture, you can.

No offence, but there is no way you can virtualize OS X in Windows as easily as you can virtualize Windows in OS X using Fusion/Parallels/Virtual Box unless you want to shoehorn (read: illegal) a copy of OSX86 into a VM, but that involves procurement of an image (unless a bootdisk has been made for that sort of thing which allows for a vanilla kernel; I left the hackintosh scene a few months ago).

So thanks for your diatribe about x86 architectures, but my argument still stands. No hacking bootloaders and kext required to run legit copies of Windows within OS X which in turn = more flexibility.

Last I checked, you couldn't install Mac on Windows/PC rig without tweaking and I think that's what Eddy was getting at. Out of the box, a Mac could be that all-in-one computer for someone that can run different environments without any tweaking.

That's exactly what i'm getting @

 

[jasin]

Last I checked, you couldn't install Mac on Windows/PC

You can install Mac OS X on a PC. Many have done it. Its actually called a hackintosh. You do not need to do anything special either. You only need to format the drive for the Mac Os X file system.

http://www.hackintosh.com/

And of course you cant install it in windows, but you can't install windows inside mac Os X either. That's nothing to do with mac or pc though, that's just the nature of what an OS is and how it is designed operate.

 

[bigjobby]

To even think that the unibody costs the same to manufacture as a bunch of plastic bits all screwed together is laughable. Also Apple has many design patents, outlets to maintain, blahdy blah... but do carry on, I'm having a good craic here!

 

[jasin]

That is still design, however you belittle it.

So then you would admit anyone who builds a PC at home is also designing their own computer?

 

[bigjobby]

You can install Mac OS X on a PC. Many have done it. Its actually called a hackintosh. You do not need to do anything special either. You only need to format the drive for the Mac Os X file system.

http://www.hackintosh.com/

And of course you cant install it in windows, but you can't install windows inside mac Os X either. That's nothing to do with mac or pc though, that's just the nature of what an OS is and how it is designed operate.

I think you'll find this isn't true in the vast majority of cases. You'll be kidding yourself otherwise.

Edit: And it is also illegal (I believe).

 

[Eddyisgreat]

You can install Mac OS X on a PC. Many have done it. Its actually called a hackintosh. You do not need to do anything special either. You only need to format the drive for the Mac Os X file system.

http://www.hackintosh.com/

You do have to do something special. You can't just take an off the shelf snow leopard disk, pop it into your custom gaming rig made w/ parts from newegg and install OS X. Either a bootdisk , bootloader or modified disk is required. And if you manage to get that far, you still have to find the correct mix of parts (I find gigabyte mobos and nVidia cards work best, highpoint for RAID if required).

 

[jasin]

To even think that the unibody costs the same to manufacture as a bunch of plastic bits all screwed together is laughable. Also Apple has many design patents, outlets to maintain, blahdy blah... but do carry on, I'm having a good craic here!

Apple did not invent the unibody. Airplane and Car manufacturers did. Unibody designs have been around for years. Apple just took, like they do with most of their products, what already existed and adapted it to their systems.

Macs are not the only computers with unibodies. There are HP, Sony's, dells, Asus's, etc.. with Unbodies as well. Computers that typically cost less than most MBps.

Nevertheless, unibody alone does not justify the overpricing; Especially when there are pcs with Unibody designs as well that cost significantly less than a Mbp.

 

[doug in albq]

Lots of people rip on macs because they don't realize how flexible they are, perhaps not in terms of hardware (although thunderbolt will change that), but allowing us to have our choice of OS, or if we really need to, use multiples at the same time.

For instance someone will ask me about a specific application, then look at my machine and say "oh nevermind your on a MAC" (you know how they say it ). I simply say "so what?" and go to my dedicated Windows XP OR Windows 7 VM in the 2nd or third spaces running full screen, full speed.

People get pretty nervous when they see a skilled MAC user in action, flipping between environments, or perhaps using terminal. They start to panic, wondering "WTF is this guy doing with a MAC when I thought only Windows users could operate a computer...and why is this MAC not in a coffee shop?!??! What's going on!".

And yes before someone comes in and says "durr eddy MAC stands for Media Access Control har har I think you meant Mac durr", i'm fully aware of the difference, so thanks.

Good post. I agree.

 

[AMDGAMER]

Some of the hate comes from random computer shoppers who go on dell and hp and look at 15" laptops for 599, 799 with free office software and anti virus! etc..then say hey lets check apple and realize 1800 bucks is entry level for a 15"

 

[jasin]

You do have to do something special. You can't just take an off the shelf snow leopard disk, pop it into your custom gaming rig made w/ parts from newegg and install OS X. Either a bootdisk , bootloader or modified disk is required. And if you manage to get that far, you still have to find the correct mix of parts (I find gigabyte mobos and nVidia cards work best, highpoint for RAID if required).

Actually you can. That is exactly what he did on that video. Other than formating the system and installing iboot nothing else needs to be done. Watch the video on http://www.hackintosh.com/

 

[bigjobby]

Apple did not invent the unibody. Airplane and Car manufacturers did. Unibody designs have been around for years. Apple just took, like they do with most of their products, what already existed and adapted it to their systems.

Macs are not the only computers with unibodies. There are HP, Sony's, dells, Asus's, etc.. with Unbodies as well. Computers that typically cost less than most MBps.

Nevertheless, unibody alone does not justify the overpricing; Especially when there are pcs with Unibody designs as well that cost significantly less than a Mbp.

Here's my post again...

To even think that the unibody costs the same to manufacture as a bunch of plastic bits all screwed together is laughable. Also Apple has many design patents, outlets to maintain, blahdy blah... but do carry on, I'm having a good craic here!

Now tell me, where's that word "invent" that I had supposed to have used?
FYI: "Invent" and "Design" have very different meanings.

Also, evidence of other unibody laptops from other manufacturers and prices will be useful to back your claims. This does not include the 2nd-hand market.

But do carry on, don't let me stop you.

 

[jasin]

Os X is programmed to be run on Pc architecture as it runs on systems with PC processors in them. So naturally, of course, it will be compatible with PCs.

Here's my post again...



Now tell me, where's that word "invent" that I was supposed to have used?
FYI: "Invent" and "Design" have very different meanings.

Also, evidence of other unibody laptops from other manufacturers and prices will be useful to back your claims. This does not include the 2nd-hand market.

But do carry on, don't let me stop you.

Anything that is invented is also designed. You cannot invent something without also designing it. The two go hand in hand. So my comments about inventions are relevant. Nevertheless, apple has done neither with their computers. They did not invent or design the unibody on the Mbp. The unibody is actually standardized, which is how Pcs can sometimes have identical unibodies with the same dimensions and layouts. There are Hps and Asus Pc laptops that are like that. there are actually threads on here about that. Some think they are clones and copies of Mbps. However, they are not. That is just the standardizing of computer components. That should be obvious though as computers, whether they are Macs or Pcs, are all built and assembled by the same 4 manufacturers in one of 12 Chinese plants. =Sony by the way. is the only exception. They actually have a plant in California where they do actual construction, build, and assembling of their computers.

 

[fat jez]

So then you would admit anyone who builds a PC at home is also designing their own computer?

I'm sure Johhny Ive's team would take exception to your view point that all they do is select components. Layout of components is not a trivial task, for one, with lots of considerations, not least of which is where the ports are going to be, where the battery will be, the optical drive, etc. All of those items tie in closely with the physical design of the chassis - the form factor, the screen size, etc.

 

[bigjobby]

Anything that is invented is also designed. You cannot invent something without also designing it. The two go hand in hand. Nevertheless, apple has done neither. They did not invent or design the unibody on the Mbp. Unibody is actually standardized which is how Pcs can sometimes have Unibodies too. There really is nothing to design or redesign; case dimensions are all the same regardless of whether the computer is a mac or a pc.

A fashion designer "designs" clothes, not "invent" them.

 

[jasin]

A fashion designer "designs" clothes, not "invent" them.

Actually does both. Just depends on which level and scale in the design process he or she is at. When a fashion designer, for example, comes out with a new line of clothing or a new style he or she is inventing that as the designer is creating something new and it is created new from scratch. Computers do not use the same criteria or processes for design and innovation though as the clothing design industry does so your analogy is not really applicable here.

 

[MacMadHatter]

I get the opposite, people usually ask me a few questions about what they do and if they can do it on a Mac. Then the next thing I hear is OMG it's expensive.

Yes OS X is great, but the real explanation and value proposition for any Mac is it's hardware quality. None of my macs have broken down due to quality issues, sure each one has had a hiccup, but it's usually fixed in software asap by Apple. AppleCare runs circles around any extended warranty provided by other companies, this especially holds true if you have a nearby Apple Store to go to.

My only beef is glossy screens. Someone who can make an antiglare glossy screen will be a god in the eyes of many.