Open letter from a Pro about the actual MacBook Pro

[MyopicPaideia]

I don't know. But I can tell you this: I've never been able to get a screen protector to go on a screen without dust getting under it. Not ever. I'm just not good at that.

I would pay more for a matte screen. It would be worth a lot more to me than "retina" is.

I miss the 17" MBP so much sometimes.

You should probably get a 'Pro' to apply the screen protector for you then, problem solved!
[doublepost=1479023660][/doublepost]What I really don't understand is reading the complaint about the MBP not being a workstation. WTF??? Since when has the MBP ever been a workstation or a workstation replacement? The new model is using the same class of components it always has. The best mobile CPU available with a middling but efficient dedicated GPU solution.

Performance wise there is nothing here to complain about. It is miles ahead of the model it is replacing, in every way. Half of the detractors are using the release to go off on a requiem for the 17" model for goodness sake!

Apple can't even really be criticized for not presenting new Mac Pro workstations or a new iMac, because Intel doesn't have the latest CPU SKU's available for those yet! Can you imagine the uproar if they came out with their new workstation class machines if they didn't have the latest and best CPU's available!?!? They are getting that criticism on the MBP already and IT ISN'T EVEN TRUE!!

I would like to know from all of the detractors, and challenge them for an answer - What has suddenly changed that they are expecting the MBP to be a different class of product than it has always been in the past? Why were all of you expecting a workstation class machine when you have NEVER gotten one previously???

 

[macjunk(ie)]

To me, the main issues with the new Macbook Pros are (in descending order):
1) the price
2) soldered components (same as last iteration and the multiple iterations before it - can't change this I know)
3) lack of ports

Tim has managed the equal the repairability factor of the MacBook Pro to the iPad Pro and while he was on it, he has made the Macbook Pro more expensive. Hurts like hell cause I like Mac OSX; very difficult to switch to Windows.
[doublepost=1479025995][/doublepost]

I noticed they all had 16gb RAM or Less... "Except for the "Joke" addition

The same website has and interesting article about 16gb Limitation https://www.slrlounge.com/is-16-gb-of-ram-in-the-new-macbook-pro-enough/

It's worth a read

Yeah...although, except the Razer and the XPS 13, I think all the laptops can be upgraded to 32GB by the user

 

[leman]

I would like to know from all of the detractors, and challenge them for an answer - What has suddenly changed that they are expecting the MBP to be a different class of product than it has always been in the past? Why were all of you expecting a workstation class machine when you have NEVER gotten one previously???

The only reasonable argument I got from the critics is that the GPU has become more important for tasks such as audio/image processing, where earlier it was just a very niche 3D modeling thing. At the same time, given the constraints on memory transfer speed etc, the 2tflops of the Pro 460 should be more then sufficient assuming the software is reasonably optimized.

 

[enthawizeguy]

u guys need to stop bitching

 

[cube]

Your definition of "pro" is irrelevant to others' and Apple's definition of "pro".

Game on.

Apple should not have just a narrow definition of pro.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Will I get a MBP, no not likely, as it doesn't fit my needs any longer, but I think overall, apple seems to have a successful strategy - well at least it appears to be so initially.

What exactly is that strategy? It seems the new MBP has alienated as many potential buyers -- like me and you -- as it has attracted them. And the ones who it has attracted would buy whether it had all USB-C or a few USB-C and a USB-A and a regular keyboard. Or someother port combination. So what Apple has really done is created a machine that will lose sales because of it's aethetic design choice to slim down an already slim case and to make it less versitile out of the box, and more clumsy to travel with if you frequently need USB-A or FW2 adapters.

Apple has dropped old tech plenty of times. I've been though every single one of them -- be it the PPC transition, the Intel transition, the transition away from the old Apple Serial Cable to USB, the transition away from CD/DVD, FW to FW2, etc. But Apple always did this in an evolutionary way, not an overnight revolution started way before all the troops were on shore. USB-C is great but it's not ubiquitous yet.

 

[aevan]

And the ones who it has attracted would buy whether it had all USB-C or a few USB-C and a USB-A and a regular keyboard.

Short term - maybe. But Apple is thinking long term. They are always making the best computer they can. Would a computer with USB-A ports be best in their eyes? No. It would be a compromise, even if people would buy them. It would've been a messy solution - to them (I knoe you disagree).

I would, personally, buy it even if it had USB-A ports, but would be a little disappointed. Sigh. Just get the 2 adapters for $8 from Amazon.

But Apple always did this in an evolutionary way, not an overnight revolution started way before all the troops were on shore. USB-C is great but it's not ubiquitous yet.

This is EXACTLY the way they did it before. And the reaction was EXACTLY the same.

This is EXACTLY the way they are going to remove all ports one day, replacing them with an all-wireless solution. And the reaction will be EXACTLY the same.

 

[maflynn]

What exactly is that strategy? It seems the new MBP has alienated as many potential buyers

Is it really? I mean so far reports have been overwhelmingly positive in terms of sales. I agree that the new MBP is a poor fit for me, but and I was very critical of apple's recent moves but it seems Apple is selling lots and lots of these things

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Is it really? I mean so far reports have been overwhelmingly positive in terms of sales. I agree that the new MBP is a poor fit for me, but and I was very critical of apple's recent moves but it seems Apple is selling lots and lots of these things

Right but where are these reports coming from? Apple PR. And they've lumped all the MBPs together and no actual sales numbers, either combined or for individual models, so I take all that with a grain of salt until Apple reports revenue for Q1 in January. Other factors include it's been 18 months since the last refresh so a lot of people there with older models are in a position they are forced to refresh. Fortunatly my 2012 rMBP is still not horrible to work with so I can skip this model, but I was prepared to buy until I added up all the deficiencies and then price tag.

But again, my point is that there are a lot of people like you and me -- anecdotally at this point I agree -- that are lost sales none-the-less. We would have bought despite everythign else IF it wasn't so tech forward to dump every single port being used today except for the almost new USB-C. I was delaying upgrading because I wanted USB-C because that is the future. But I'm still living in 2016 where USB-A is everywhere. I still need that and a full featured laptop (use to be that was what a "pro" model was) should have that onboard, not just as *compatible listing in the tech specs. This isn't my original though. It's shared with a lot of others online -- pundits, true pros, and commoners like me.
[doublepost=1479048217][/doublepost]

This is EXACTLY the way they did it before. And the reaction was EXACTLY the same.

This is EXACTLY the way they are going to remove all ports one day, replacing them with an all-wireless solution. And the reaction will be EXACTLY the same.

That isn't my recollection, and I've owned A LOT of Macs over the past 30 years. Please name me one pro market Mac where Apple removed every single type of i/o port from it except for the new one it wanted to promote. You can't because they never did that before. There has never been a pro-market Mac that only offered one kind of i/o with the option for dongles to connect others.

Also, my recollection is that the pro models were always the last to forgo an i/o and it usually happened when the tech was truly going out of vogue and not used much anymore.

 

[OneMike]

Is it really? I mean so far reports have been overwhelmingly positive in terms of sales. I agree that the new MBP is a poor fit for me, but and I was very critical of apple's recent moves but it seems Apple is selling lots and lots of these things

Selling a lot doesn't necessarily say everything. Apple will sell regardless because it's Apple.

 

[maflynn]

Right but where are these reports coming from? Apple PR.

Agreed, and do you need to take those comments with a grain of salt, but my point is that Apple is focusing more on the general consumer, and to it shows by their disregard to their most dedicated followers. I agree the USB-C is more of the same with Apple, what bugs me the most (aside from the ludicrious removal of the SD slot), is the removal of the magsafe. I'm sorry but that is a really something that is a requirement for me and other folks who travel.

Selling a lot doesn't necessarily say everything. Apple will sell regardless because it's Apple.

What's the old saying, money talks, BS walks. I think selling says enough, i.e., if the new MBPs are meeting or exceeding Apple's expectations, they will feel little need to alter their business plan regardless of how many dedicated Mac fans complain

 

[aevan]

That isn't my recollection, and I've owned A LOT of Macs over the past 30 years. Please name me one pro market Mac where Apple removed every single type of i/o port from it except for the new one it wanted to promote. You can't because they never did that before. There has never been a pro-market Mac that only offered one kind of i/o with the option for dongles to connect others.

That is a very silly argument. Of course there has never been a Mac, pro or otherwise, that offered only one kind of i/o because, until now, there never was a port that could replace all others. The technology wasn't ready.

But Apple did remove technologies that were widespread but on their way out all the time. Floppy drives, CD drives, LAN ports on laptops, etc. And the reaction was always the same: "We know it's a good move for the future, but it's to early to do it today." Guess what, Apple never cared about that - that's why they are the company that gets my money.

 

[jackoatmon]

its so silly when people get mad at apple for removing ports

killing technologies that are inconvenient for their ecosystem is apple's favourite parlour trick

and one of the reasons they're so successful and excellent

 

[maflynn]

and one of the reasons they're so successful and excellent

No always, they've shot themselves in the foot a number of times by removing too much. Just remember the old iPod shuffle, with no buttons?

 

[Chupa Chupa]

That is a very silly argument. Of course there has never been a Mac, pro or otherwise, that offered only one kind of i/o because, until now, there never was a port that could replace all others. The technology wasn't ready.

But Apple did remove technologies that were widespread but on their way out all the time. Floppy drives, CD drives, LAN ports on laptops, etc. And the reaction was always the same: "We know it's a good move for the future, but it's to early to do it today." Guess what, Apple never cared about that - that's why they are the company that gets my money.

Yes, but again, the pro machines were the last to have all these removed and at a time when it was clear the tech was DOA. When Apple pulled out the floppy pros were already well into Zip drives and other mass media. When Apple pulled the ethernet WiFi was quite prevalent. USB-C is around but it's not prevlent just yet.

And the fact USB-C can replace all i/o doesn't compensate for the fact that it has not yet done so. It's been point out and quite "funny" that out of the box the iPhone 7 cannot be connected via wire to the MBP. That is how too far a step Apple has taken this machine.
[doublepost=1479051408][/doublepost]

Agreed, and do you need to take those comments with a grain of salt, but my point is that Apple is focusing more on the general consumer, and to it shows by their disregard to their most dedicated followers.

Right, again, agree there. But it's still a head scratcher why they'd turn away so many "pro" customers when the cost to keep them was so little. But, yes, it's clear Apple is moving away from the power user market, and really the computer market. The MBP is really a step toward morphing Macs and iPads, something we all kind of knew was where Apple was moving the market. It's just hard when you are told to make do with less for more money.

 

[aevan]

Yes, but again, the pro machines were the last to have all these removed and at a time when it was clear the tech was DOA. When Apple pulled out the floppy pros were already well into Zip drives and other mass media. When Apple pulled the ethernet WiFi was quite prevalent. USB-C is around but it's not prevlent just yet.

It is prevalent, because it replaces everything even today. You don't have to wait for anything. You buy a $10 adapter and everything works. This is literally the most painless transition Apple did, ever. But people are crying and trolling about it the most because that's what we do on Internet now.

And you mentioned Zip drives, I remember the outcry when Apple did not include Zip drives to replace the floppy. "They removed floppy drives but did not offer us the alternative!" And they removed the CD while it was still heavily used elsewhere on the MacBook Pro and got the same type of comments - "internet and wireless is too slow for out needs, Apple is going too far!". You also mentioned Wifi. I remember numerous articles how "pros need LAN cables because they are more reliable and the time is not right and Apple is not taking the needs of pros into account". Sounds familiar?

You're constructing this whole scenario, trying to find some "yes, but this time is different" reason, just as people were doing every time before. But this is exactly what Apple does. In fact, when you look at it rationally, this is a very mild and easy to swallow case of Apple ditching old technologies compared to previous cases.

And the fact USB-C can replace all i/o doesn't compensate for the fact that it has not yet done so. It's been point out and quite "funny" that out of the box the iPhone 7 cannot be connected via wire to the MBP. That is how too far a step Apple has taken this machine.

Yes. You need a new cable or a $10 adapter. For pros, this is simply too much! This is way too far!

Seriously, do you guys even hear yourselves?

 

[Rafterman]

What's the obsession with the word "pro"? The machine either suits your needs or it doesn't. A "pro" can use an iPad and if it does the job, its a "pro" device.

 

[aevan]

What's the obsession with the word "pro"? The machine either suits your needs or it doesn't. A "pro" can use an iPad and if it does the job, its a "pro" device.

A "pro" is a mystical, perfect device that suits my specific, personal needs that I can compare any product to if I don't like it personally, but don't want it to sound like I'm being picky or unreasonable.

 

[Queen6]

Is it really? I mean so far reports have been overwhelmingly positive in terms of sales. I agree that the new MBP is a poor fit for me, but and I was very critical of apple's recent moves but it seems Apple is selling lots and lots of these things

Same boat, hence the switch to Surface Book for my primary 13" class system. That said it`s good if Apple sells reasonable numbers of the 2016 MBP or Apple will reduce focus on the Mac, as that`s just business. Apple is just doing what it does best, targeting the most likely audience, however that`s going to result in some attrition; you and I included.

Currently there is a significant pent up demand for new MBP`s, so it will be interesting to see how the "long game" plays out. For me, after just having some hands on with the new 2016 MBP, it very much served to reaffirm that the Surface Book is the right choice for my needs, with versatility & usability winning over thinner for the sake of it. Not that the 2016 MBP is subpar product, just no longer the best option for my needs.

Q-6

 

[Gudi]

Apple has lost their 'Why?' The last few keynotes and their advertising have been all about features, thinness, cameras and specs. They are focusing on the wrong things, Apple used to be about helping people do more, be more, create more. And that fed directly into the creative markets, which bolstered their cool factor with the masses. The new MBP will be successful, but losing the creative market will be a long term issue for them in my opinion.

This explains what I am referring to:

This video is complete utter nonsense, not because anything the guy says is wrong, but because he is presenting an idea so trivial, he should be ashamed of standing on a stage with nothing but a 'golden circle'. Of course everything starts with why you're doing it. What else would it start with? Apple hasn't lost its 'why'. Steve Jobs himself explained why touchscreens are great for building a smartphone "want to add a button later" and why vertical touchscreens are ergonomically bad for laptops "your arms want to fall off". The consequence of these two insights is the TouchBar, it's perfectly in line with everything Apple always said they believe in.

The odd child is the Smart Keyboard which turns the iPad Pro in an unergonomic vertical touchscreen. This thing is really only useful when and while you're typing a lot of text. And even then it's better to put the iPad away for a moment and grab a MacBook for the task. The Smart Keyboard only exists to make the iPad Pro look like a Surface Pro competitor, when in fact it's been far superior. 2-in-1 crossovers between tablet and laptop or tablet and smartphone have always only created horrible devices with subpar ergonomics. Apple should proudly turn away from iPhone Plus and iPad Smart and go its own way, ignoring the competition which can only think in terms of combinations of technologies which already exist. The Touch Bar is something truly novel and it avoids all the problems which came up during the Windows 7 to 8 transition.

Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

In October 2016 Windows 7 still commands a desktop OS market share of 48%, more than twice as much as Windows 10. And even Windows XP still owns a healthy 8% of the market. The OS is completely fragmented and destroyed, because of a failed touchscreen integration. Could you imagine only every fifth Mac user on Sierra, every second Mac user still on Snow Leopard and every tenth Mac user running the last 2001 version of Mac OS Classic? Ridiculous! Nobody exceeds Apple when it comes to integrating useful new technologies into an existing platform. We are standing on a mountain of successful transitions, while the competition is literally exploding and burning down the house.

 

[cmaier]

It is prevalent, because it replaces everything even today. You don't have to wait for anything. You buy a $10 adapter and everything works. This is literally the most painless transition Apple did, ever. But people are crying and trolling about it the most because that's what we do on Internet now.

And you mentioned Zip drives, I remember the outcry when Apple did not include Zip drives to replace the floppy. "They removed floppy drives but did not offer us the alternative!" And they removed the CD while it was still heavily used elsewhere on the MacBook Pro and got the same type of comments - "internet and wireless is too slow for out needs, Apple is going too far!". You also mentioned Wifi. I remember numerous articles how "pros need LAN cables because they are more reliable and the time is not right and Apple is not taking the needs of pros into account". Sounds familiar?

You're constructing this whole scenario, trying to find some "yes, but this time is different" reason, just as people were doing every time before. But this is exactly what Apple does. In fact, when you look at it rationally, this is a very mild and easy to swallow case of Apple ditching old technologies compared to previous cases.



Yes. You need a new cable or a $10 adapter. For pros, this is simply too much! This is way too far!

Seriously, do you guys even hear yourselves?

Everyone wants to me a martyr.

 

[spacebro]

This video is complete utter nonsense, not because anything the guy says is wrong, but because he is presenting an idea so trivial, he should be ashamed of standing on a stage with nothing but a 'golden circle'. Of course everything starts with why you're doing it. What else would it start with? Apple hasn't lost its 'why'. Steve Jobs himself explained why touchscreens are great for building a smartphone "want to add a button later" and why vertical touchscreens are ergonomically bad for laptops "your arms want to fall off". The consequence of these two insights is the TouchBar, it's perfectly in line with everything Apple always said they believe in.

The odd child is the Smart Keyboard which turns the iPad Pro in an unergonomic vertical touchscreen. This thing is really only useful when and while you're typing a lot of text. And even then it's better to put the iPad away for a moment and grab a MacBook for the task. The Smart Keyboard only exists to make the iPad Pro look like a Surface Pro competitor, when in fact it's been far superior. 2-in-1 crossovers between tablet and laptop or tablet and smartphone have always only created horrible devices with subpar ergonomics. Apple should proudly turn away from iPhone Plus and iPad Smart and go its own way, ignoring the competition which can only think in terms of combinations of technologies which already exist. The Touch Bar is truly something novel and it avoids all the problems which came up during the Windows 7 to 8 transition.

Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

In October 2016 Windows 7 still commands a desktop OS market share of 48% more than twice as much as Windows 10. And even Windows XP still owns a healthy 8% of the market. The OS is completely fragmented and destroyed, because of a failed touchscreen integration. Could you imagine only every fifth Mac user on Sierra, every second Mac user still on Snow Leopard and every tenth Mac user running the last 2001 version of Mac OS Classic? Ridiculous! Nobody exceeds Apple when it comes to integrating useful new technologies into an existing platform. We are standing on a mountain of successful transitions, while the competition is literally exploding and burning down the house.

Maybe if steve jobs ate something besides fruit he could have some upper body strength? New teachers find it hard to write all day on a chalk board but they get used to it in a few days. Touch screen is the future, go to a best buy and try it. The only annoying thing about it is having a keyboard at all to move your hands back to. As soon as a good soft keyboard happens on windows, they are going to win, everybody will throw away their keyboards.

 

[Howard2k]

Interesting whine from a Pro user about the new MacBook.

No, it wasn't that interesting at all.
It might have been more interesting with less whining and had it been written more professionally. Might.

I hope there is someone out there who loves him as much as he loves himself.

 

[MH01]

A good read, but let's be honest, these machines are not for real pros and thier niche needs, it's a mass produced machine that is a jack of all trades appealing to all.

 

[aevan]

A good read, but let's be honest, these machines are not for real pros and thier niche needs, it's a mass produced machine that is a jack of all trades appealing to all.

I'm completely honest, and I think they are for real pros.