OS X keeps crashing on me!(?)

IJ Reilly · May 18, 2007

Fukui said:
Try making a new user, that is not admin, and log in as only that user. See if the crashing still happens.

This is excellent advice. Sorry, I neglected to recommend it.

Still, I think resetting open firmware is worth trying. I believe actually booting into open firmware and resetting from there does more than a simple PRAM reset. Apple seems to suggest it when PRAM resetting doesn't work, which just might be the case here.

7masscom · May 18, 2007

Let's do this somewhat logically...

Main Causes for Kernel Panics:http://www.thexlab.com/faqs/kernelpanics.html

Defective or incompatible RAM - checked

Incorrect permissions or bugs - checked

Incompatible, obsolete, or corrupted kernel extensions - I too started getting the KP's recently, after installing CS3. Coincidence? Maybe...This is what drew me initially to this thread, seeing that you had Dreamweaver CS3 and Fireworks CS3 running when it first happened. (I thought maybe it was the airport issue for me but that has still yet to be confirmed, the only changes I've made recently, is to add CS3)

Incompatible, obsolete, or corrupted drivers - same as above. If you had the older version of CS 2, then upgraded, which I did, maybe there are outdated drivers that are causing this.

Insufficient RAM and available hard disk space - you're running CS3, with a 100 gb hd, 2 gb ram, on PB G4, possible... but the fact it still happens with no apps running doubtbul

Hard disk corruption - possible

Improperly installed hardware or software - possible

Defective hardware - seeing that the computer works fine until it goes to sleep, doubtful in my opinion

I'm currently trying to understand the log file more, I'll let you know if I find anything else out.

sk3pt1c · May 18, 2007

ok, one at a time
1.i'm not using FileVault or encrypted virtual memory
2.i don't know how to reset the open firmware, help?

3.the safe mode or new user thing can't really happen, because the crashes are periodical in occurence, so i can't really start up in safe mode for two-three days straight and then if that works log in as a new user for another two-three days.i got work to do so i can't really go that way.
4.i don't know if CS3 is to blame, but i never had Photoshop before, i only had macromedia's suite, dreamweaver, fireworks and the lot.

if no other advice comes up, i'll give the safe mode and new user option a go, cause i'm getting really desperate here...

thanks a lot for all the support guys, you rock! keep the good advice and wisdom coming!

ps. (edit) : after reading up on troubleshooting from the link provided i have this to add. i have a small program called Transparent Dock that modifies the dock to make it transparent. you think this may have something to do with the crashes? i thought about this since it is a part of the OS that's being modified... should i disable it and see what happens?

IJ Reilly · May 18, 2007

sk3pt1c said:
2.i don't know how to reset the open firmware, help?

Restart, hold down cmd-opt-o-f

At the prompt, type:

reset-nvram [return]

reset-all [return]

The Mac should restart.

sk3pt1c · May 18, 2007

right, done that, thanks

you think i should disable TransparentDock too?

IJ Reilly · May 18, 2007

sk3pt1c said:
right, done that, thanks
you think i should disable TransparentDock too?

Are you saying you'd done it already?

Don't know anything about TransparentDock. If it hasn't installed a kernel extension, then I don't see how it could cash a crash.

gnasher729 · May 18, 2007

sk3pt1c said:
right, it just did it again
i flashed it again but haven't put it to sleep since
i'm scared
this time i didn't have DW or FW open
just the usual simple stuff
i don't get it
i haven't tampered with the ram at all, it is as it was when i got it
flashed the PRAM, ran hardware test, verified and repaired everything
and still it crashes!

any ideas?
i'm actually scared here!

First, repairing permissions helps about as much as dancing naked around the table. It may make you feel better, but the Mac will be completely unaffected by it.

Some hardware failures are hard to detect. Could be a bit of RAM that isn't hundred percent reliable; that would explain a crash after waking up as well. The one time that I had defective RAM (dealer added the wrong RAM to several Macs), no RAM test program found anything.

I think at this point in time you should probably look at what a new MacBook would cost you.

sk3pt1c · May 18, 2007

it would cost me a whole lot more than i can afford right now.
plus, i don't see why i should buy a new computer just because this one has a problem sleeping.
in the end, i can just shut it down and not sleep it again, right?

JJ, no man, i did it when you told me to, last night.

so now i'm gonna give it a couple of days (as long as it took last time)
and if it doesn't crash on me again it means that that was it...
hopefully

sk3pt1c · May 20, 2007

in the words of DJ Shadow:
"it is... happening... again..."
sh*t!
crashed on me again...
looks like we've exhausted the possible problems and solutions to those problems...
anyone got a clue or a new idea?

Fukui · May 20, 2007

From the website: Currently, TransparentDock is not compatible with Intel-based Macs. Intel info...

Transparent dock hacks the binary (the executable file) of the dock application. Therefore, your crashing may very well be related to this hacking.

I suggest you use pacifist and extract dock.app from it and reinstall it to your HD.

Also, if possible, can you give us a print out of the kernel extentions in your /library/extentions folder? (You can do this by "selecting all" in the finder, then dragging and dropping into a text field in text edit or even safari). This may help us diagnose your problem if we can see what is modifying the kernel...

IJ Reilly · May 20, 2007

Fukui said:
From the website: Currently, TransparentDock is not compatible with Intel-based Macs. Intel info...

Transparent dock hacks the binary (the executable file) of the dock application. Therefore, your crashing may very well be related to this hacking.

Good catch. I agree.

sk3pt1c · May 20, 2007

my mac is PowerPC, first of all.
i had suspected TransparentDock too, but no one thought it might be causing this...
it's gone now, zapped it with AppZapper and reset the dock.

can't find a Library/Extentions folder (?)

Fukui · May 20, 2007

sk3pt1c said:
my mac is PowerPC, first of all.
i had suspected TransparentDock too, but no one thought it might be causing this...
it's gone now, zapped it with AppZapper and reset the dock.

can't find a Library/Extentions folder (?)

Go to the finder and use the "Go" menu item and click go to folder.
The type in /Library/Extensions/

Also go to /System/Library/Extensions/ as well, something might be installed there as well.

If you have a small firewire disk, you might take a moment to install OS X to it, and work off of that, and access your files from there, and see if there is any crashing going on. If so, its hardware related.

My G4 cube started crashing randomly, and when I removed the (now 6 year old) airport card, it stopped and works beautifully... so.....

IJ Reilly · May 20, 2007

sk3pt1c said:
my mac is PowerPC, first of all.
i had suspected TransparentDock too, but no one thought it might be causing this...
it's gone now, zapped it with AppZapper and reset the dock.

can't find a Library/Extentions folder (?)

Fukui is saying that TransparentDock hacks the Dock application binaries, which argues for re-installing Dock, not just deleting TransparentDock. Actually, hacking Dock should not have the potential for causing system crashes, since it's really just an application. Any application which hacks/extends the kernel itself has the potential to cause kernel panics.

Extensions is in root/System/Library. But I don't think you can alter anything there without being logged in as root user.

IJ Reilly · May 20, 2007

Fukui said:
If you have a small firewire disk, you might take a moment to install OS X to it, and work off of that, and access your files from there, and see if there is any crashing going on. If so, its hardware related.

This is a good idea, but a word of caution: I once had a problem with bad RAM which mysteriously did not manifest itself on a duplicated system booted from an external drive. It panicked only when the Mac was booted on the internal drive! I can supply absolutely no logical explanations for this; it just happened. RAM replaced, problem solved.

Fukui · May 20, 2007

IJ Reilly said:
This is a good idea, but a word of caution: I once had a problem with bad RAM which mysteriously did not manifest itself on a duplicated system booted from an external drive. It panicked only when the Mac was booted on the internal drive! I can supply absolutely no logical explanations for this; it just happened. RAM replaced, problem solved.

Yea, thats interesting. That might be the problem... to add to this, I had a bad ram module but it passed the ram tests... so you never know.

sk3pt1c · May 20, 2007

TransparentDock has a "reset dock" option that resets the dock to its default, since you back it up before you apply your first changes, so i'm guessing that having reset it should be ok (?).

the list of extentions is pretty long, but here goes:

Code:

/System/Library/Extensions/XserveRAIDDriver.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/Xerox USB Printing.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/webdav_fs.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/VirtualAudioDriver.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/udf.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/System.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/SoftRAID.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/smbfs.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/SMARTLib.plugin
/System/Library/Extensions/SM56KUSBAudioFamily.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/SharedIP.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/SCR24X_Apple_Driver.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/Radius.ppp
/System/Library/Extensions/PPTP.ppp
/System/Library/Extensions/RoxioBluRaySupport.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/PPPSerial.ppp
/System/Library/Extensions/PPPoE.ppp
/System/Library/Extensions/PPP.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/PMUMotionSensor.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/OSvKernDSPLib.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/NVDAResman.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/NVDANV40Hal.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/NVDANV30Hal.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/NVDANV10Hal.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/ntfs.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/msdosfs.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/MegaRAID.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/MacIOGPIO.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/LSIUltra320.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/LogitechForceFeedback.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/Lexmark X422.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/L2TP.ppp
/System/Library/Extensions/KeyLargoATA.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/iTunesPhoneDriver.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/iPodDriver.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IPFirewall.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOUSBMassStorageClass.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOUSBFamily.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOStorageFamily.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOSerialFamily.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOSCSIParallelFamily.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOSCSIArchitectureModelFamily.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOPlatformFunction.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOPCIFamily.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOPCCardFamily.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IONetworkingFamily.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IONDRVSupport.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOKeyLargo.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOI2CSMUSat.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOI2CSlewClock.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOI2CPulsar.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOI2CMotionSensor.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOI2CMaxim6690.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOI2CMaxim1989.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOI2CMaxim1631.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOI2CLM8x.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOI2CLM7x.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOI2CLM6x.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOI2CHWClock.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOI2CFamily.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOI2CDriveBayGPIO.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOI2CDeviceLMU.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/NVDANV20Hal.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/ATIRadeon8500VADriver.bundle
/System/Library/Extensions/GeForce3GLDriver.bundle
/System/Library/Extensions/GeForce2MXGLDriver.bundle
/System/Library/Extensions/GeForceFXGLDriver.bundle
/System/Library/Extensions/ImmersionForceFeedback.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/ICAFWKodakProDriver.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOI2CADT746x.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOATAFamily.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/I2CGPIO.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/EAP-RSA.ppp
/System/Library/Extensions/HeathrowATA.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/ICAClassicNotSeizeDriver.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOADBFamily.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/GeForce.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/ATIRadeon9700.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOI2CDeviceFCU.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOI2CCPUVoltage.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOI2CControllerSMU.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOI2CControllerPPC.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOI2CControllerPMU.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOI2CAD741x.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleVIA.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/autofs.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/ATIRadeon8500DVDDriver.bundle
/System/Library/Extensions/AudioDeviceTreeUpdater.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleHWSensor.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleFan.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleMIDIFWDriver.plugin
/System/Library/Extensions/ATIRageProGA.plugin
/System/Library/Extensions/ATIRadeonGA.plugin
/System/Library/Extensions/ATIRadeon8500GA.plugin
/System/Library/Extensions/ATIRadeon9700GLDriver.bundle
/System/Library/Extensions/ATIRadeon8500GLDriver.bundle
/System/Library/Extensions/IOFireWireAVC.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IODVDStorageFamily.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOCDStorageFamily.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOBluetoothHIDDriver.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOBluetoothFamily.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOAudioFamily.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/cddafs.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/BootCache.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/ATIRadeonGLDriver.bundle
/System/Library/Extensions/IOFireWireSBP2.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOFireWireIP.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOFireWireFamily.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/ATIRadeon9700GA.plugin
/System/Library/Extensions/CRYPTOCardPCCard.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/CMD646Root.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/ATIRadeon8500.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleSym8xx.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleStorageDrivers.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleSPU.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleSMUMonitor.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AudioIPCDriver.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/CM4040.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/ATIRage128GLDriver.bundle
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleCPUThermo.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleHeathrow.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleK2SATARoot.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleK2SATA.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleK2Fan.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleSMU.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleSEP.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleRAID.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleLSIFusionMPT.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleLMUController.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleAirPort2.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleAirPort.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/ATTOExpressPCIPlus.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleLM8x.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleLM87.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleLM7x.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/DSAuth.ppp
/System/Library/Extensions/DSACL.ppp
/System/Library/Extensions/ATIRagePro.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/EAP-TLS.ppp
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleOnboardDisplay.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleOnboardAudio.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleNDRV
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleMPIC.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleADM103x.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOHIDFamily.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOHDIXController.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOGraphicsFamily.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOFireWireWDHID.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/IOFireWireSerialBusProtocolTransport.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/ATIRage128GA.plugin
/System/Library/Extensions/ATIRadeon.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleMacRISC4PE.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleMacRISC2PE.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleDallasDriver.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleCuda.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/ACard6885M.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/Apple_iSight.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleGPIO.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleI2S.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleI2C.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleFPButton.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/ACard67162.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleLED.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleKiwiRoot.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleADT746x.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleFileSystemDriver.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleFCU.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleCore99NVRAM.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleK2Driver.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleK2.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/Adaptec39160.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleAltiVecDVDDriver.bundle
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleGracklePCI.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleMIDIRTPDriver.plugin
/System/Library/Extensions/ATIRadeon9700DVDDriver.bundle
/System/Library/Extensions/ATIRadeonDVDDriver.bundle
/System/Library/Extensions/ATIRage128.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/ATIRadeon9700VADriver.bundle
/System/Library/Extensions/Adaptec29160x.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/CMD646ATA.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/DVFamily.bundle
/System/Library/Extensions/EAP-KRB.ppp
/System/Library/Extensions/GeForceGA.plugin
/System/Library/Extensions/GeForceVADriver.bundle
/System/Library/Extensions/ATIRage128DVDDriver.bundle
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleKeyLargo.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleKauaiATA.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleKiwiATA.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleKeyswitch.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleIRController.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleI2SModemFamily.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/Apple16X50Serial.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleMLANAudio.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleXsanFilter.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleVADriver.bundle
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleUSBTopCase.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleUSBDisplays.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleUSBAudio.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleThermal.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleADBMouse.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/Adaptec290X-2930.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/ACard671xSCSI.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/ApplePMU.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/ApplePCCardATA.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/ApplePCCard16ATA.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleCore99PE.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleMediaBay.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleMaxim6690.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleHWClock.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleHIDMouse.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleBlower.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/Adaptec78XXSCSI.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/ACard62xxM.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleGossamerPE.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleFWAudio.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleAD741x.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleFlashNVRAM.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleMaxim1989.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleMacRiscPCI.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/Apple02Audio.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/ACard68xxM.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleVSP.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleADBButtons.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleMIDIUSBDriver.plugin
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleMIDIIACDriver.plugin
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleADBKeyboard.kext

i'd like to thank you guys once more for the excellent support and patience with me. thanks!

Fukui · May 20, 2007

Hmm, here are a couple that I don't have on my system (Powerbook G4 12")

XserveRAIDDriver.kext
RoxioBluRaySupport.kext

The roxio one jumps out at me....

Try disabling one of those kernel extentions.
You can dynamicaly unload them in some cases (depending on how they hook into the system) in the terminal by typing:

sudo kextunload RoxioBluRaySupport.kext

If it fails, then manually move the file out of there to somewhere else and restart.

If roxio provides an uninstaller, use it, and ensure the kernel extension is gone.

sk3pt1c · May 20, 2007

the XServeRaid one is from Apple's Software update, and i downloaded and installed it just in case, cause i'm using final cut pro and so on.
the bluray one came with Toast i think, to support burning onto bluray discs, should you have a drive to do that...
so neither of them are suspicious to me, plus it's been quite some time since i installed them...

Fukui · May 20, 2007

sk3pt1c said:
the XServeRaid one is from Apple's Software update, and i downloaded and installed it just in case, cause i'm using final cut pro and so on.
the bluray one came with Toast i think, to support burning onto bluray discs, should you have a drive to do that...
so neither of them are suspicious to me, plus it's been quite some time since i installed them...

Well, its still possible, especially the blue ray driver..... (third party drivers and all)

What usually happens right before OS X crashes??
If your doing something specific, or its a regular interval of time, that can signal something....

IJ Reilly · May 20, 2007

Fukui said:
If your doing something specific, or its a regular interval of time, that can signal something....

Waking from sleep, he said. This is what made me really suspicious of an issue with persistent settings, but I think we've got that one ruled out now.

sk3pt1c · May 20, 2007

yeah, just waking from sleep, either normal or safe...
nothing specific running, i've tried various combinations of apps...
i can't really pinpoint it still...
it usually takes about two days maximum for it to appear after
i've (we've) tried a fix...
if it doesn't appear within the next two days, it will have been
TransparentDock (hopefully)

sk3pt1c · May 21, 2007

crashed again, i'm gonna do it the pacifist way and cross my fingers
edit: right, re-installed with pacifist...
anything else you can think of?

IJ Reilly · May 21, 2007

This thread has been going long enough that I've probably forgotten much of what's been suggested earlier, but I believe we've eliminated most of the possible problems which are not hardware-related. The only other thing I can think of which you haven't tried is to clone the hard drive to the external drive, and boot off that for awhile.

sk3pt1c · May 21, 2007

and how would i go about doing that?
just copy everything to the external?
how do i choose where to boot from?
thanks

OS X keeps crashing on me!(?)

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