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P-p-p-Playoffs!! ohfive!
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xsedrinam said:
what teams would that be?
the astros who entire starting rotation minus roy oswalt came from somewhere else.
The white sox who does have the most people from their farm system. yet not nearly that many, contreras, el duque?
The angels who have barely anyone on there team from the farm system. cabrerra, lackey, gurerro?
or those pesky cardinals that have christ their entire team minus albert is not from the farm system
GO hanley rameriez next year (can't spell names for ****)
face it baseball is well past the days of having a farm system and sticking to it, and has been this way for years now, i can't think of many people that stay on the same team forever, i can think of Trot Nixon right now. the last people to stay on a team for a very long time and forever was Gwynn and Ripken, it doesn't happen anymore
For those that don't know, the Cardinals farm system, and the Cardinals use of that farm system, has been, in my opinion, pretty outstanding. Check this out:
Matt Morris has been a Cardinal his entire career. So has Yadier Molina. So Taguchi has not played for any other Major League team than the Cardinals. Brad Thompson, John Gall and John Rodriguez made major contributions this year, their rookie seasons, as Cardinals. And, of course, you mentioned Pujols.
Trades via the farm system
Mark Mulder was traded to the Cardinals (mainly) for Danny Haren, who did come up through the Cards farm system.
Jason Marquis was acquired from Atlanta for Eli Marrero and JD Drew, both who made their Major League debut in Cardinal uniforms.
Jim Edmonds was acquired for Adam Kennedy, who was drafted by the Cardinals, and Kent Bottenfield (who, admittedly, was not).
Scott Rolen was traded to the Cards for Placido Polanco and Bud Smith, both Cardinals products, and Mike Timlin (who was acquired using other Cardinal prospects).
The farm system is used for far more than developing players who will play with your club. Cards' GM Walt Jocketty has been exceptional at turning his minor league talent into Major Leaguers, whether that be the prospect himself, or another player acquired for that prospect.
And it's not all about the farm system. It's about making key acquisitions, however they come about. The Cardinals ace, Chris Carpenter, was signed as a free agent after being released by the Blue Jays. In this case, the team took a chance on a player (knowing it would NOT pay off short term) who had had major shoulder problems and helped him regain his form.
Matt Morris has been a Cardinal his entire career. So has Yadier Molina. So Taguchi has not played for any other Major League team than the Cardinals. Brad Thompson, John Gall and John Rodriguez made major contributions this year, their rookie seasons, as Cardinals. And, of course, you mentioned Pujols.
Trades via the farm system
Mark Mulder was traded to the Cardinals (mainly) for Danny Haren, who did come up through the Cards farm system.
Jason Marquis was acquired from Atlanta for Eli Marrero and JD Drew, both who made their Major League debut in Cardinal uniforms.
Jim Edmonds was acquired for Adam Kennedy, who was drafted by the Cardinals, and Kent Bottenfield (who, admittedly, was not).
Scott Rolen was traded to the Cards for Placido Polanco and Bud Smith, both Cardinals products, and Mike Timlin (who was acquired using other Cardinal prospects).
The farm system is used for far more than developing players who will play with your club. Cards' GM Walt Jocketty has been exceptional at turning his minor league talent into Major Leaguers, whether that be the prospect himself, or another player acquired for that prospect.
And it's not all about the farm system. It's about making key acquisitions, however they come about. The Cardinals ace, Chris Carpenter, was signed as a free agent after being released by the Blue Jays. In this case, the team took a chance on a player (knowing it would NOT pay off short term) who had had major shoulder problems and helped him regain his form.
For the two (supposedly) leading AL MVP candidates, Ortiz and A-Rod did very little in their respective ALDS'. But at least Papi got an RBIKoodauw said:
Sunday's Providence Journal included a look at what the Red Sox can look forward to as far as pitchers and position players from the farm system.
Pitchers:
Jon Papelbon
Craig Hansen
Manny Delcarmen
Lenny DiNardo
Jon Lester (Eastern League Pitcher of the Year)
Anibal Sanchez
4 of them made appearances for Boston this season, including 4 starts (3 for Papelbon, 1 for DiNardo).
Position Players:
Hanley Ramirez (SS, 2B/3B)
Dustin Pedroia (2B)
David Murphy (CF)
Adam Stern (OF)
Alejandro Macahdo (OF/IF)
We've seen a little bit of Hanley, Stern, and Machado (mostly pinch running, but still...) and the entire group should result in at least a few keepers.
It has finally been proven true, Major League Umps are blind as a bat. First they botch the call in the Yankee Angel game and now the worst call in MLB history in the Bottom of the 9th with 2 outs. I hate the Angels and I'm glad that the White Sox won but a game cant be decided on such a bad call.
worst call in history, play it under protest and complain to Selig see if something can be done.
That was indeed a bad call. Not horrible, because that ball was really close to the ground, but wouldn't it have made sense to check the ball for dirt? And why didn't the umps have a little conference? They did it twice in last year's Game 6 (both ending with the right call being made).
In a commercial for a sports show on Cox's local channel, one sports fan said, in support of instant replay (I'll have to paraphrase) "Once the right call is made, that's it."
In a commercial for a sports show on Cox's local channel, one sports fan said, in support of instant replay (I'll have to paraphrase
) "Once the right call is made, that's it."MacNut said:
The White Sox did something close to this in the BoSox / ChiSox series by having a batter pretend to be hit by a pitch, instant replay shows that the pitch never came within 3 inches of him. I am amazed by the ChiSox, this kind of play is inexcusable in baseball (akin to A Rod's slap last year on Bronson Arroyo).
Edit: They just had the Ump press conference on TV, he tried to make an exucse for his "out" sign. If Selig doesn't do something major in regards to the game (which is very hard to do), I do hope that this Ump is never in the majors again. There should be NO confusion between the signs of major leauge umpires.
BEN
the call wasn't that bad... you people would have done a better job?
try watching the replay in real time, from the same vantage point of the ump. tough call.
and he didn't cost the angels the game. letting the runner steal second, and then giving up a double lost them the game.
try watching the replay in real time, from the same vantage point of the ump. tough call.
and he didn't cost the angels the game. letting the runner steal second, and then giving up a double lost them the game.
gwuMACaddict said:the call wasn't that bad... you people would have done a better job?
try watching the replay in real time, from the same vantage point of the ump. tough call.
and he didn't cost the angels the game. letting the runner steal second, and then giving up a double lost them the game.
That game was wild. I can't be sad about the outcome though.
I think that John Kruk made a very good point last night on Baseball Tonight, something that I find extremely rare, as I consider him to generally be a bumbling idiot.
There was no way (Angels' catcher) Paul saw the sign from the home plate umpire. His back was facing the umpire. He could have only HEARD what the home plate umpire had to say. (Not to mention the fact that the home plate umpire had been signing his strikes the same way all game long.) Obviously, we can't possibly know that the umpire *said* ("he's out" or whatever).
AJ Pierzynski had to have heard or saw something different (or a distinct lack of a call) in the way the home plate umpire called or signaled that third strike to make him turn around and start running to first. Hats off to him for recognizing that and running to first.
So, don't you, as a catcher in such a big game...or any Major League game...when the ball is in the dirt like that, whether or not he caught it, tag the batter anyways? I've seen it done a thousand times. Paul will not forget to do it next time, I assure you.
Meanwhile, my Cardinals won again last night. Carpenter was great, going 8 full innings on only 96 pitches. Sanders continued to get the job done. I love the way this team does whatever it needs to to get the win. Moving runners over, squeeze plays, pitching to get ground balls (17 or 18 of them!)...Andy Pettitte who?, I say! These Cardinals have a pretty good rotation themselves.
There was no way (Angels' catcher) Paul saw the sign from the home plate umpire. His back was facing the umpire. He could have only HEARD what the home plate umpire had to say. (Not to mention the fact that the home plate umpire had been signing his strikes the same way all game long.) Obviously, we can't possibly know that the umpire *said* ("he's out" or whatever).
AJ Pierzynski had to have heard or saw something different (or a distinct lack of a call) in the way the home plate umpire called or signaled that third strike to make him turn around and start running to first. Hats off to him for recognizing that and running to first.
So, don't you, as a catcher in such a big game...or any Major League game...when the ball is in the dirt like that, whether or not he caught it, tag the batter anyways? I've seen it done a thousand times. Paul will not forget to do it next time, I assure you.
Meanwhile, my Cardinals won again last night. Carpenter was great, going 8 full innings on only 96 pitches. Sanders continued to get the job done. I love the way this team does whatever it needs to to get the win. Moving runners over, squeeze plays, pitching to get ground balls (17 or 18 of them!)...Andy Pettitte who?, I say! These Cardinals have a pretty good rotation themselves.
Glad the Cardinals won it, although I'm still concerned with how their bullpen has been doing - the opposition has been up with the tying or go-ahead run on in the late innings in 2 of the 4 games they've played (despite the starters protecting big leads), and late-inning scoring has been the norm.
As for the Sox game, I watched that replay on TiVo a number of times. In my opinion, it was too close to call. Looked like it could have it the ground, and not being a major-leaguer, I don't know what that would sound like. A.J. thought he heard it hit, and he's a catcher, so I'll given him the benefit of the doubt.
Regarding the umpire, he didn't start to signal A.J. out until Paul was headed to the dugout and so was A.J. I'm guessing the ump didn't say anything or else he wouldn't have gone to first. I'm rooting for the Sox, but I'm disappointed they got the game like that. It mars the series in my mind, since people will be questioning if they should have won it or not.
As for the Sox game, I watched that replay on TiVo a number of times. In my opinion, it was too close to call. Looked like it could have it the ground, and not being a major-leaguer, I don't know what that would sound like. A.J. thought he heard it hit, and he's a catcher, so I'll given him the benefit of the doubt.
Regarding the umpire, he didn't start to signal A.J. out until Paul was headed to the dugout and so was A.J. I'm guessing the ump didn't say anything or else he wouldn't have gone to first. I'm rooting for the Sox, but I'm disappointed they got the game like that. It mars the series in my mind, since people will be questioning if they should have won it or not.
tobefirst said:I think that John Kruk made a very good point last night on Baseball Tonight, something that I find extremely rare, as I consider him to generally be a bumbling idiot.
There was no way (Angels' catcher) Paul saw the sign from the home plate umpire. His back was facing the umpire. He could have only HEARD what the home plate umpire had to say. (Not to mention the fact that the home plate umpire had been signing his strikes the same way all game long.) Obviously, we can't possibly know that the umpire *said* ("he's out" or whatever).
AJ Pierzynski had to have heard or saw something different (or a distinct lack of a call) in the way the home plate umpire called or signaled that third strike to make him turn around and start running to first. Hats off to him for recognizing that and running to first.
So, don't you, as a catcher in such a big game...or any Major League game...when the ball is in the dirt like that, whether or not he caught it, tag the batter anyways? I've seen it done a thousand times. Paul will not forget to do it next time, I assure you.
My first reaction to this play was, "bad call." But on second thought, I agree with you. When in doubt, the catcher makes the tag or throws to first -- especially in a game of this importance. According to the ump, he called "strike three" but not the out. A catcher has to know the difference. Obviously, Pierzynski did and Paul didn't. Credit where credit is due: a head's up play on Pierzynski's part.
Second viewing of the ultimate **** up in baseball history.
The ball did not hit the ground, and the ump made the out call, when you close your fist like that it means out.
That is absolutely horrible, i think it has to compare to the Knoblauch missing the tag on Offerman by 3 feet and still being called out.
he called him out that is a horrendous call and the ump should never be in baseball again.
If the Ump didn't make the fist then i would say AJ (cancer of the club house) would have been safe.
But if the ump didn't make the fist maybe the pitcher wouldn't have left the mound giving him a chance to throw it to first for the real out.
The ball did not hit the ground, and the ump made the out call, when you close your fist like that it means out.
That is absolutely horrible, i think it has to compare to the Knoblauch missing the tag on Offerman by 3 feet and still being called out.
he called him out that is a horrendous call and the ump should never be in baseball again.
If the Ump didn't make the fist then i would say AJ (cancer of the club house) would have been safe.
But if the ump didn't make the fist maybe the pitcher wouldn't have left the mound giving him a chance to throw it to first for the real out.
eva01 said:
I saw the play, watched the replay multiple times and looked at the pictures, and I can't tell for sure whether the ball touched the ground or not. And you know what, it doesn't matter -- because it's the umpire's call to make, not the players on the field and certainly not yours or mine. People do tend to forget that about baseball. It's also not up to a replay, which isn't used to verify calls in baseball, and in this case at least, isn't definitive proof of anything anyway.
The catcher should always tag or throw when the out is even remotely in question, especially in such an important game. This is Baseball 101. Paul made a bush-league play and got burned. Time to stop blaming the officiating.
IJ Reilly said:
I agree. Very impressed with how the Angles are handling the controversy. Mike Scocia (spelling?) is a class act.
My point stands that he made the fist which is the universal sign for "OUT" just like if i put my hands to my throat it means i am chocking.
The Pitcher may have not left the mound if that fist didn't occur which would have given him the chance to throw out AJ.
I am starting to go over to my friends point of having Reviews in baseball, because the calls are just getting ridiculous.
The Pitcher may have not left the mound if that fist didn't occur which would have given him the chance to throw out AJ.
I am starting to go over to my friends point of having Reviews in baseball, because the calls are just getting ridiculous.
eva01 said:
what other examples can you provide? how frequently are these "ridiculous calls" happening?
i think that instant replay would ruin baseball
gwuMACaddict said:
trust me i hate instant replay, but these umps need to get things right all the time, or have a huddle about it.
the Offerman play, the Play this year for the red sox when the opponent ran about 6 feet out of the base path. i didn't see the game but even McCarver and Buck said that it was ridiculous and when two red sox hating announcers say it is ridiculous that is just bad.
And there are numerous close homerun calls that could be changed. Hell i am in shock and awe that the umps during the Astros game called the homerun correctly. (the one that went just over the yellow line in left center field)
then there was that lovely time that Randy Johnson throws a pitch and it is called a ball, then throws it in the EXACT same spot and it is called a strike, ESPN was commenting on how bad that was.
I believe there are just a few bad apples for Umps in the league and they need to get weeded out, overall I do think baseball has the best officiating out of any of the sports just that baseball umps seem to when they make a mistake, it is a HUGE mistake.
Yankees so called homerun against the Orioles when the kid stuck the net down about two feet to catch the ball comes to mind.
Here's the Official Rule - MLB.
"6.09
The batter becomes a runner when_ (a) He hits a fair ball; (b) The third strike called by the umpire is not caught, providing (1) first base is unoccupied, or (2) first base is occupied with two out; When a batter becomes a base runner on a third strike not caught by the catcher and starts for the dugout, or his position, and then realizes his situation and attempts then to reach first base, he is not out unless he or first base is tagged before he reaches first base. If, however, he actually reaches the dugout or dugout steps, he may not then attempt to go to first base and shall be out."
I see two mistakes made:
The Ump, if he did not see or know if the ball was trapped or caught, should have appealed to the third base Ump (line of sight), but he did not, immediately do that.
The catcher, as has been mentioned, should always tag or throw to first base to remove any doubt. He failed to do that, and it was a costly mistake.
"6.09
The batter becomes a runner when_ (a) He hits a fair ball; (b) The third strike called by the umpire is not caught, providing (1) first base is unoccupied, or (2) first base is occupied with two out; When a batter becomes a base runner on a third strike not caught by the catcher and starts for the dugout, or his position, and then realizes his situation and attempts then to reach first base, he is not out unless he or first base is tagged before he reaches first base. If, however, he actually reaches the dugout or dugout steps, he may not then attempt to go to first base and shall be out."
I see two mistakes made:
The Ump, if he did not see or know if the ball was trapped or caught, should have appealed to the third base Ump (line of sight), but he did not, immediately do that.
The catcher, as has been mentioned, should always tag or throw to first base to remove any doubt. He failed to do that, and it was a costly mistake.
xsedrinam said:
bingo there we have it, a home plate ump hates to appeal or have huddles because he is the leader of the officiating for the game and i believe that he has too much pride to do that in some cases.
don't get me wrong here yes the catcher should have done something about it and tagged him anyways, it just really pisses me off when umps screw up and don't huddle together or appeal to another one for help
eva01 said:
The catcher could not have seen the umpire's hand gesture and he should never rely on the pitcher for verification of the out being called. The ump does this verbally, and he says he didn't call the out, just the strike.
Officiating is no better or any worse than it's ever been. Yes, umpires do make mistakes, but they are human and the game is played by humans who also makes mistakes. I hope baseball never starts using that dumb instant reply for officiating. This instance is a perfect case against it. If a replay was used here to decide, it would create more grief than resolution because nobody can tell for sure whether the ball touched the ground. The game is baseball. I don't want it turned into a physics experiment.