P-p-p-Playoffs!! ohfive!

[eva01]

The catcher could not have seen the umpire's hand gesture and he should never rely on the pitcher for verification of the out being called. The ump does this verbally, and he says he didn't call the out, just the strike.

Officiating is no better or any worse than it's ever been. Yes, umpires do make mistakes, but they are human and the game is played by humans who also makes mistakes. I hope baseball never starts using that dumb instant reply for officiating. This instance is a perfect case against it. If a replay was used here to decide, it would create more grief than resolution because nobody can tell for sure whether the ball touched the ground. The game is baseball. I don't want it turned into a physics experiment.

i don't want instant replay either i can just see part of the reason why he says there should be. And my argument is the exact same as yours, that it is played by humans and humans make mistakes.

I just get upset when mistakes are made is all I love baseball too much

 

[IJ Reilly]

I agree. Very impressed with how the Angles are handling the controversy. Mike Scocia (spelling?) is a class act.

Scioscia knows he's got a series to play, and he also had to know his catcher bit the pickle. Yeah, he's a smart manager in addition to being a class act. As a Dodger fan, I have to wonder how the organization ever let him get away.

 

[eva01]

Scioscia knows he's got a series to play, and he also had to know his catcher bit the pickle. Yeah, he's a smart manager in addition to being a class act. As a Dodger fan, I have to wonder how the organization ever let him get away.

the dodgers seem to let a lot of people get away. Orel is apparently talking with the A's regarding becoming their manager.

 

[PixelFactory]

Whether the ball was in the dirt or not you can't really tell from the replay. But Escobar was off the mound immediately after the pitch and Josh Paul was tossing the ball towards the mound as the umpire called the strike. They made the assumption that AJ was out before hearing the call. Iffy call. Paul should have known to tag him when he was catching the ball with his mitt in the dirt.

 

[IJ Reilly]

i don't want instant replay either i can just see part of the reason why he says there should be. And my argument is the exact same as yours, that it is played by humans and humans make mistakes.

I just get upset when mistakes are made is all I love baseball too much

Human error is part of the game, always has been, and I hope always will be. Like I've said already, the real problem is that the catcher made an assumption that he should not have made. He forgot something he should have learned in the minor leagues, which if he'd done it, would have made the ump's call moot.

 

[eva01]

Whether the ball was in the dirt or not you can't really tell from the replay. But Escobar was off the mound immediately after the pitch and Josh Paul was tossing the ball towards the mound as the umpire called the strike. They made the assumption that AJ was out before hearing the call. Iffy call. Paul should have known to tag him when he was catching the ball with his mitt in the dirt.

for someone that actually watched the game, howcome Molina wasn't the catcher right then?

 

[IJ Reilly]

the dodgers seem to let a lot of people get away. Orel is apparently talking with the A's regarding becoming their manager.

I know, I know.

I once asked the (now former) Dodger pitching coach about Orel and I got from him that perhaps Hirsheiser expected to be elevated more quickly than perhaps he deserved. He was a great pitcher to be sure but I really don't know if he's got manger's skills.

 

[PixelFactory]

DaVannon pinch ran for him in the 8th or 9th.

 

[xsedrinam]

for someone that actually watched the game, howcome Molina wasn't the catcher right then?

I believe they had Molina in as DH for the night to give him a rest.

 

[MacNut]

The Angels are making a big deal about this call when the Yankees had just as much right to complain about the bad call against Cano supposedly running out of the baseline in Mondays game, What goes around comes around I guess.

 

[gwuMACaddict]

The Angels are making a big deal about this call when the Yankees had just as much right to complain about the bad call against Cano supposedly running out of the baseline in Mondays game, What goes around comes around I guess.

what are you talking about? the angels have said NOTHING about the call, specifically- mike scocia wouldnt talk about it and said that his team hadn't earned the right to win the game anyway. they've handled it like gentlemen.

 

[MacNut]

what are you talking about? the angels have said NOTHING about the call, specifically- mike scocia wouldnt talk about it and said that his team hadn't earned the right to win the game anyway. they've handled it like gentlemen.

So your saying that the Angels are perfectly fine with the call then?

 

[gwuMACaddict]

So your saying that the Angles are perfectly fine with the call then?

no- i'm not saying that. i'm sure that the angels were upset with it.

but you said this:

The Angels are making a big deal about this call

which is utter crap. the angels are being amazingly calm about the situation.

isn't the yankee's season over anyway?

 

[MacNut]

They are being calm in public but behind closed doors Im sure they are not so calm. All Im saying is that a bad call may have cost the Yankees might also cost the Angels in the end.

 

[gwuMACaddict]

They are being calm in public but behind closed doors Im sure they are not so calm. All Im saying is that a bad call may have cost the Yankees might also cost the Angels in the end.

thats not what you said. but i'm glad you're willing to clarify.

and a blown call didnt cost the yankees the season. good grief.

maybe they lost because they had old players, tired pitchers, no middle relievers, and an "MVP" who had no RBI in the entire series

 

[MacNut]

thats not what you said. but i'm glad you're willing to clarify.

and a blown call didnt cost the yankees the season. good grief.

maybe they lost because they had old players, tired pitchers, no middle relievers, and an "MVP" who had no RBI in the entire series

Maybe not but that call could of been a momentum swing just as the White Sox might take advantage of last nights call. We will never know what would happen if the calls were right from the start.

 

[eva01]

Ok i am even more outraged right now

Wilburn said it best on PTI today

he showed a previous ball in the dirt strike 3, the umpire waited till AFTER the Catcher made the tag on the player to make his fist which signifies that the player is out.

Yet he makes the fist in the bottom of the ninth but now magically it doesn't mean he is out?

WTF horrible call and at least admit you were wrong umpire don't make yourself look bad especially after you contradicted yourself on national television saying you make the fist right after every third strike when earlier in the game you waited until the tag was made to do that.

 

[IJ Reilly]

If you're waiting for all the calls to be "right" then I think you might want to give up following baseball... it's always going to drive you crazy.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Ok i am even more outraged right now

Wilburn said it best on PTI today

he showed a previous ball in the dirt strike 3, the umpire waited till AFTER the Catcher made the tag on the player to make his fist which signifies that the player is out.

Yet he makes the fist in the bottom of the ninth but now magically it doesn't mean he is out?

WTF horrible call and at least admit you were wrong umpire don't make yourself look bad especially after you contradicted yourself on national television saying you make the fist right after every third strike when earlier in the game you waited until the tag was made to do that.

Once again, the catcher sees none of this, and if he's taking cues from his pitcher, instead of listening to whether the ump makes the audible "out" call, then he's not doing his job. And if he isn't 110% certain that he's heard the ump call the batter out, and still fails to either tag or throw down to first, then he's made mistake unworthy of a Little Leaguer.

 

[gwuMACaddict]

Once again, the catcher sees none of this, and if he's taking cues from his pitcher, instead of listening to whether the ump makes the audible "out" call, then he's not doing his job. And if he isn't 110% certain that he's heard the ump call the batter out, and still fails to either tag or throw down to first, then he's made mistake unworthy of a Little Leaguer.

i think this gets to the bottom of it, and there's really no other way to hash this out.

yes, it was a bad call

but, the catcher should have been more careful

anyone watching the houston/st. louis game tonight?

 

[Counterfit]

The catcher could not have seen the umpire's hand gesture and he should never rely on the pitcher for verification of the out being called. The ump does this verbally, and he says he didn't call the out, just the strike.

Officiating is no better or any worse than it's ever been. Yes, umpires do make mistakes, but they are human and the game is played by humans who also makes mistakes. I hope baseball never starts using that dumb instant reply for officiating. This instance is a perfect case against it. If a replay was used here to decide, it would create more grief than resolution because nobody can tell for sure whether the ball touched the ground. The game is baseball.

I think it's a greater folly to not learn from your mistakes than to admit you make errors and try to correct the correctable ones. Too many umps seem to go on a power trip when a manager comes out for a little chat. Even when the manager is perfectly calm, like Joe Torré and Terry Francona usually are, and Soscia was in this case. Last year's Game 6 of the ALCS is a great example of getting calls right, even though the initial call was made differently.

I don't want it turned into a physics experiment.

it is a physics experiment, probably the most pure one you can find. F=MA. That one equation determines whether you hit a grand slam to win a ring, or the right fielder catches it and you go home for another long winter.

the Play this year for the red sox when the opponent ran about 6 feet out of the base path. i didn't see the game but even McCarver and Buck said that it was ridiculous and when two red sox hating announcers say it is ridiculous that is just bad.

That was Matsui taking TWO STEPS onto the infield grass while on his way to second to avoid a tag by Renteria. I used to have lots of respect for him, but this is almost as bad the The Slap.

 

[xsedrinam]

Official Score Keeper's word on the bottom of the ninth:
White Sox ninth: Everett grounded out, first baseman Erstad unassisted. Rowand struck out. Pierzynski struck out, safe on Paul's fielding error. Ozuna pinch-running for Pierzynski.Ozuna stole second. Crede doubled to left, Ozuna scored.
Runs: 1, Hits: 1, Errors: 1
That's the final word. Case closed. Time to move on. Of all the "should have"'s, imo the great omission was that of a pro catcher not tagging or throwing to first base to remove any doubt(s). Thus the error on the official score.

 

[leekohler]

YES! The White Sox go to the World Series! I'm so proud of them!

 

[QCassidy352]

Once again, the catcher sees none of this, and if he's taking cues from his pitcher, instead of listening to whether the ump makes the audible "out" call, then he's not doing his job. And if he isn't 110% certain that he's heard the ump call the batter out, and still fails to either tag or throw down to first, then he's made mistake unworthy of a Little Leaguer.

I know it's old news now, but I really can't agree with that. The catcher took his cue from the pitcher, yes, but the pitcher correctly told him that it was an out. The ump made the right call and then reversed himself after getting confused by A.J. The call was OUT - anything that takes place, doesn't take place, or should have taken place afterwards is beside the point.

Anyway, now it looks a lot like White Sox/Astros. Cards would have to beat Pettite/Oswalt/Clemens in order to advance. Possible, what with Carpenter going tomorrow and the last 2 at home, but not likely. What's amazing is that the Astros are 2-31 with runners in scoring position this series, and are leading 3 games to 1!

I called (months ago) Cards/Angels, but this will be a good WS too. (assuming the cards don't come back) we'll either have the end of a second curse in two years, or have a team win its first title ever. Good times.

And just you wait - the Red Sox will be back and better than ever next year.

 

[xsedrinam]

It's not over, yet, but doesn't look good at all for St. Louis. Even as a Cards fan, I have to say they don't deserve to win a game when they can't score (two chances) with a guy on third with 0 and 1 out. Then the sum of all fears, they get doubled up to end the game. No excuses, even if Edmonds gets the lousy call and ousted an inning before. They did not deliver, small ball or big ball. And congrats to the Sox. Hope they do well.