Palm Pre Continues to Generate Interest at CTIA Mobile

[elppa]

I said this at treocentral

the most revolutionary feature of the Pre is desktop level multi-tasking that allows multiple work-flows for user.

Except it doesn't because not all desktop apps are locally hosted webapps written in javascript, like they are on the Pre.

and thats precisely apple's problem with iPhone, its not if they "know" it or not, which I agree with you, they absolutely "know it".

I don't quite understand. What Apple knows is they must have the next generation iPhone hardware and software ready by this Summer and it has to be better than the Pré.

However, knowing it, doesn't mean they can do much about it, OSX is too big and bloated to run on a phone with true multi-tasking without causing problems in places like battery, speed, stability, etc.

But you can run multiple web apps in Safari with no problem (and you can flick between using a card like interface, just like on the Pré), so on a technical level they're absolutely neck and neck.

If we're talking about multitasking involving real, compiled applications, then the Pré doesn't do this at the moment. Google's Android (which is Linux based) can but it has a detrimental affect on all the above.

As every OS X based laptop on the market today would beat a Linux based laptop in the area of power management, I wouldn't draw yourself into a Darwin vs Linux debate in this particular area.

I adore apple making a new direction for themselves and trying to crawl out of this situation

We all know the stats: 30 million devices sold and 500 million app downloads, Apple are hardly crawling anywhere.

by promoting gaming, but boy, is apple really think playing games on iPhone will be that attractive? I think it will generate buzz, but not a long-term solution for iPhone's multi-tasking ghost.

If you take the number of Nintendo DS games and the number of PSP games and add them together you get a number smaller than the total number of iPod touch games. That says something about quantity. Now quality: iPhone OS games cleaned up at the recent Independent Games Festival awards in the mobile games area.
Apple is doing a bit more than generating buzz.

Waiting for better hardware? maybe, if thats how apple thinks, then go ahead wait and see.

Apple's not waiting for better hardware, they're actively trying to create it. hence why they acquired PASemi.

Your post backs up my previous point about certain posters being all too willing to belittle Apple's technological prowess.

First you belittle Apple's ability to deliver a viable software platform, then you belittle their ability to deliver a viable gaming platform, then for the hat-trick you try to belittle their ability to deliver hardware.

In reality Apple has delivered in all three areas and (as of today) with the Pré Palm has delivered absolutely zilch.

I agree on these things:
[1] The Pré looks promising
[2] Apple can improve a heap on what they are doing

Where we disagree is that you seem to be under the impression Apple has delivered a immature platform that is of little technological importance, whereas I believe that couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[Keebler]

I have 2 thoughts:

1. the lawsuit regarding the touch patent if i'm correct in remembering? it will be interesting to see if Apple wins.

2. i'm all for competition. I wonder what the world's computing environments would be like if MS hadn't had such a monopoly when this all started years ago. Not saying I would want everything to be apple, but i wonder if stronger competition would have caused MS to fix some of their issues sooner.

In that respect, I like my iphone alot. I'm not a business power user, but i do use it for work and for my needs, it does the trick. I'm not saying it's the be all and end all, but with everyone breathing down their necks, it will keep Apple and the others innovating so in the end, the consumers win.

 

[sd2009]

+1

The Pre looks good, and if it is better than the iPhone, and does everything I want it do, and I can get it for a good price then there'd only be one thing stopping me and that's seamless music syncing like iTunes provides.

Some people may say "PFFT *SNORT* DRAGGING AND DROPPING FOLDERS ONTO AN MP3 PLAYER IS WAY BETTER." but I disagree. Dragging and dropping music onto an MP3 player is something I did in 2003 and it was awkward and slow, and it required me to manually do things..

I keep my music library in iTunes. It really does "just work". I add music to my iTunes, plug in my iPhone and OH WOW IT SYNCS MY MUSIC TO MY PHONE.

Unless they have something better than iTunes which syncs just as well, or unless iTunes supports the palm pre (haha right), then I'm stuck with Apple

and what is all this **** under my name?

 

[ZiggyPastorius]

The Pre looks good, and if it is better than the iPhone, and does everything I want it do, and I can get it for a good price then there'd only be one thing stopping me and that's seamless music syncing like iTunes provides.

Some people may say "PFFT *SNORT* DRAGGING AND DROPPING FOLDERS ONTO AN MP3 PLAYER IS WAY BETTER." but I disagree. Dragging and dropping music onto an MP3 player is something I did in 2003 and it was awkward and slow, and it required me to manually do things..

I keep my music library in iTunes. It really does "just work". I add music to my iTunes, plug in my iPhone and OH WOW IT SYNCS MY MUSIC TO MY PHONE.

Unless they have something better than iTunes which syncs just as well, or unless iTunes supports the palm pre (haha right), then I'm stuck with Apple

and what is all this **** under my name?

I too enjoy the uniformity of iTunes and the iPhone, however I can't stand syncing. As soon as I change anything, my whole phone gets erased and that bugs me. I like being able to manually change everything.

As for the stuff under your name, this was already covered by many people. Hover your mouse over them in order and spell it out.

 

[gilroykilroy]

At&t $$$

Biggest problem I have with an iPhone is AT&T. It would cost me $1,200 ($50/month over 2 year contract) to replace my Sprint phones (Instinct & 755p) with iPhones. Not to mention activation fees...

I may replace my Instinct with a Pre provided it actually can do PAM tethering (not Bluetooth) like I can do on my Instinct.

 

[sd2009]

Except it doesn't because not all desktop apps are locally hosted webapps written in javascript, like they are on the Pre.

But you can run multiple web apps in Safari with no problem (and you can flick between using a card like interface, just like on the Pré), so on a technical level they're absolutely neck and neck..

But that's really not true is it.

1) Webapps are slower since they have to load things from the web

2) The PP apps are just like native apps, except they use javascript, html, and css. The javascript has access to APIs on the phone that allow much much more than what you can do in a web browser.

So

 

[sd2009]

I too enjoy the uniformity of iTunes and the iPhone, however I can't stand syncing. As soon as I change anything, my whole phone gets erased and that bugs me. I like being able to manually change everything.

As for the stuff under your name, this was already covered by many people. Hover your mouse over them in order and spell it out.

Sounds like there's something wrong if it erases everything on your phone.

And it spells April 1. Is it supposed to be an April fools joke? Because its 3rd April here, also its not funny

 

[iMacoo7]

I like the way the OS allows some features that are not on the iPhone, but in all honesty (regardless of the hardware the Pre has over the current iPhone)I think the new iPhone will blow the Pre out of the water.

 

[elppa]

But that's really not true is it.

1) Webapps are slower since they have to load things from the web

2) The PP apps are just like native apps, except they use javascript, html, and css. The javascript has access to APIs on the phone that allow much much more than what you can do in a web browser.

So

[1] HTML 5 spec includes offline databases, allowing for offline storage. So not everything has to come from the web all the time.
[2] Compiled Objective-C will execute faster than interpreted javascript.
[3] You can't do 3D in HTML/CSS and Javascript

Its a limitation. You can still make good apps though. It just limits a few areas.

 

[inkswamp]

Couldn't have put it better.

Thanks.

I fully expect to hear things like "Wow, this new Product X will really get Apple moving" on Digg or Slashdot, but when I hear it on a Mac forum, it just grates on my nerves. Presumably most of the people here have at least a passing knowledge of Apple's history and should know darn well that Apple almost never reacts to what the competition or the rest of the market is doing.

If Apple reacted to competitors like the rest of the tech industry does, we'd have a Mac Tablet, a Mac NetBook, a Mythical Midrange Tower and iPods would work with Plays-For-Sure.

And dammit, we would have had a two-button mouse back in 1999.

 

[sd2009]

[1] HTML 5 spec includes offline databases, allowing for offline storage. So not everything has to come from the web all the time.
[2] Compiled Objective-C will execute faster than interpreted javascript.
[3] You can't do 3D in HTML/CSS and Javascript

Its a limitation. You can still make good apps though. It just limits a few areas.

Right but you said that Palms apps were basically the same as iPhone web apps. My main point is that the javascript can do far much more since it has access to those APIs.
Javascript is fast enough for anything I'd want an app on a phone to do.
And I'm not a gamer.

 

[sd2009]

Thanks.And dammit, we would have had a two-button mouse back in 1999.

Instead of years later?

 

[iMacoo7]

So your telling me that your phone came with software that can work with both OS X and Windows? Can you prove it with a link or the name of the phone..

Actually Nokia's do sync with windows and macs. I owned an N93 and N93I and used to sync both with my macs. The Mac has built in synchronization and if that is not suffice enough there is always The missing sync.
And here is an article from Apple's page about iSync:
(Support where you need it.
iSync 3.0 in Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard provides built-in support for hundreds of popular mobile phones. Just plug-in or pair your phone, choose which calendars or contacts you want to synchronize, and away you go!

More where that came from.
If you have a newer phone than what is supported in Leopard, you can usually download the appropriate plug-in from the phone vendor or a third-party developer.)
Link:http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/isync/
here is your list of mobile phones (A wide range) that sync with a Mac
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2824

 

[elppa]

Presumably most of the people here have at least a passing knowledge of Apple's history

Sadly, I think you are being extremely over optimistic on this one.

 

[elppa]

Right but you said that Palms apps were basically the same as iPhone web apps.

Technically they are. They're web apps optimised for the HTML 5 and CSS 3 features in WebKit. Adding custom hooks doesn't change the fact that they are little more than this. Desktop widgets in OS X have access to other APIs, and I don't think of them as full desktop applications either.

Javascript is fast enough for anything I'd want an app on a phone to do.

And 640K software is all the memory anybody would ever need on a computer.

And I'm not a gamer.

I didn't say games, I said 3D.

 

[sd2009]

Technically they are. They're web apps optimised for the HTML 5 and CSS 3 features in WebKit.

But you're just ignoring the main point: They're not, they have access to APIs and are better integrated into the system unlike the iPhone.

And 640K software is all the memory anybody would ever need on a computer.

I'm sure that was true for a computer back then. You could apply that argument to anything. i.e., "The iPhone doesn't need copy paste" (in 2007)

And I wouldn't need 3D for anything but games.

Besides, the Palm Pre seems to have everything I want built in anyway.

 

[elppa]

But you're just ignoring the main point: They're not, they have access to APIs and are better integrated into the system unlike the iPhone.

I'm not ignoring it. I read it and understood it the first, second and third times you made the point.

I just don't think it is particularly relevant. Either way it is spun, Pré apps are little more than web apps at the moment and I for one don't think that will cut it in a few years time. This is because I believe most regular folk will own and use a cellphone as their primary computing device (and dock it to a screen/projector and wireless keyboard if needed).

I fully expect Palm to change this and offer a real platform for development. Using web technologies offers a quick shortcut for getting a large number of apps out there and developed quickly.

It doesn't answer question like how their developers are going to write for multi-core phones. And yes, the hardware is moving that fast. There will be multi-core chipsets in phones in 2009.

 

[CaptainScarlet]

You "actually use your phone for business"? I don't understand this correlation between the physical keyboard and business. I sort of understand the "Taking up half the screen thing," but I pumped out an entire three page essay while I was on an airplane with just my iPhone, hardly painful to edit when I go back to a laptop, and it was actually a good paper. I REALLY don't understand what is the correlation between physical and business? If you say "I prefer a physical keyboard," then I 100% understand and agree with your decision, but "Physical keyboard is better for business and fast/long typing" makes zero sense to me.

Ditto on that...I use my iPhone for business purposes, in fact several people at my work do. We all receive a high volume of emails per day and I don't hear a lot of complaining about not having a "Physical Keyboard". It's something you get use to. We all had Blackberry 8830 phones at first, although nice phones (I loved my blackberry), the iPhones gave us more flexibility.

 

[gcmexico]

I must say, this is great competition for the iphone...I'll never switch over...but not bad Palm Pre

 

[macnchiefs]

1st Week

I can't wait for the phone to come out. I'm buying it the first week fo shizzle yo...

 

[phobic99]

Looks to be an amazing device. I can't wait to see more but as long as it's on Sprint, I'll have to pass.

 

[sd2009]

I'm not ignoring it. I read it and understood it the first, second and third times you made the point.

I just don't think it is particularly relevant. Either way it is spun, Pré apps are little more than web apps at the moment and I for one don't think that will cut it in a few years time. This is because I believe most regular folk will own and use a cellphone as their primary computing device (and dock it to a screen/projector and wireless keyboard if needed).

I fully expect Palm to change this and offer a real platform for development. Using web technologies offers a quick shortcut for getting a large number of apps out there and developed quickly.

Ok well I actually agree. And I'm not even planning to switch from my iPhone any time soon, although I would have some fun writing apps for the Pre if I had one.

 

[t0mat0]

I'm not ignoring it. I read it and understood it the first, second and third times you made the point.

I just don't think it is particularly relevant. Either way it is spun, Pré apps are little more than web apps at the moment and I for one don't think that will cut it in a few years time. This is because I believe most regular folk will own and use a cellphone as their primary computing device (and dock it to a screen/projector and wireless keyboard if needed).

I fully expect Palm to change this and offer a real platform for development. Using web technologies offers a quick shortcut for getting a large number of apps out there and developed quickly.

It doesn't answer question like how their developers are going to write for multi-core phones. And yes, the hardware is moving that fast. There will be multi-core chipsets in phones in 2009.

Is it too much of a presumption, if Pre apps are more like web apps - that the ability to bring them to the iPhone would be rather easy? In the sense that there will be lots of apps on the iPhone the Pre cannot do/ have, but that the apps on the Pre will pretty much all be implementable on the iPhone, to a larger userbase? Will the Pre be able to effectively monetize their apps, in comparison to maybe more complex, but more features apps on the App Store? (Interesting to watch how RIM's store goes, and their current pricing of applications, and what's there / not there).

In terms of tech, and OS size etc - isn't Apple's play that the phone is a small part of it in comparison to other capabilities one of it's strengths? As Gruber recently said:
Apple is coming with "the idea of a general-purpose pocket-sized networked computer." It's a platform. And as OS 3.0, it can be used to retrospectively add software features. Apple's looking to implement features in the main OS in the next update, that will be able to be passed on to it's other products, along with their lessons learnt from it. As mentioned, multi-core chips, GPU as a bigger factor - how new tech can be added and managed in this telephonic MID.

Either way, as the article goes on, we ain't seen nothing yet. The iPhone doesn't really interact with PCs/Macs / other devices or even Apple products (e.g. Touch, iPhone) too much. Yet.

 

[iMacoo7]

I dont know how many people watched the full video on the Pre site, but at the very end of the interview the guy said are the apps going to be available on the "app store or whatever you guys are calling it" and the one being interviewed with the Pre said "why yes it will be available on launch day and you will be able to download your apps that you want directly from the device"...
Pretty interesting

 

[joemama]

Can someone explain this to me:

How come Apple isn't suing Palm over patent infringement? What are they waiting for?

Also, did anyone else presume the reason the video doesn't show a hand or ANY multitouch movement is because of the "potential" lawsuit?