Palm Pre Continues to Generate Interest at CTIA Mobile

[clevin]

Except it doesn't because not all desktop apps are locally hosted webapps written in javascript, like they are on the Pre.

But you can run multiple web apps in Safari with no problem (and you can flick between using a card like interface, just like on the Pré), so on a technical level they're absolutely neck and neck.

If we're talking about multitasking involving real, compiled applications, then the Pré doesn't do this at the moment. Google's Android (which is Linux based) can but it has a detrimental affect on all the above.

Where we disagree is that you seem to be under the impression Apple has delivered a immature platform that is of little technological importance, whereas I believe that couldn't be further from the truth.

i dont think you followed the webos developing detail, webapp is different idea than what webos is allowing. and it will convincing no one to claim safari's web app is anything remotely close to true "multi-tasking".

The Pre offers desktop level multi-tasking experiences, and its best so far on a mobile device, More than technical issues, the user experiences will be at a completely different level than any current smartphones in the market (iPhone included), which are all, one way or the other, glorified app launchers.

My point is apple technically isn't capable of developing a good mobile os. I dont expect people here to agree, but I do want to put it out.

for topics about sales, innovations, revolutions, good or bad. I really have no interest to debate it since there is absolutely zero data to support any comparison. I will leave that to a later discussion.

 

[Stately]

Somehow I don't think the Palm Pre is going to be much competition for the
i phone at all. I feel this especially because of the fact that the 3.0 firmware is dropping soon. Uhh . . sorry there Palm.

 

[clevin]

Can someone explain this to me:

How come Apple isn't suing Palm over patent infringement? What are they waiting for?

Also, did anyone else presume the reason the video doesn't show a hand or ANY multitouch movement is because of the "potential" lawsuit?

because palm holds patent on alot of thing that apple infringed on? you dont think palm did smartphone for 15 years holds no crucial patent that can shake iPhone out of market, do you?

not to mention, apple's multi-touch patent doesn't necessarily cover what the Pre can do, apple didn't patent a gesture, they patented how the gesture was interacted by the device, AFAIK.

Somehow I don't think the Palm Pre is going to be much competition for the
i phone at all. I feel this especially because of the fact that the 3.0 firmware is dropping soon. Uhh . . sorry there Palm.

yeah, sorry, hopefully apple learn the issue more seriously than you think, you really should follow the video of the Pre first. which I bet apple already done so for more than once.

 

[t0mat0]

i dont think you followed the webos developing detail, webapp is different idea than what webos is allowing. and it will convincing no one to claim safari's web app is anything remotely close to true "multi-tasking".

The Pre offers desktop level multi-tasking experiences, and its best so far on a mobile device, More than technical issues, the user experiences will be at a completely different level than any current smartphones in the market (iPhone included), which are all, one way or the other, glorified app launchers.

My point is apple technically isn't capable of developing a good mobile os. I dont expect people here to agree, but I do want to put it out.

for topics about sales, innovations, revolutions, good or bad. I really have no interest to debate it since there is absolutely zero data to support any comparison. I will leave that to a later discussion.

What might be useful, is to explain a user scenario, about using multi-tasking, and how you'd see true multi-tasking, vs what's going to be offered from Palm/Pre this year that we know of.

What big advantages do you see you'd have vs the second or so of exiting one app, and going to another (barring the automatic movement to anothe app by clicking on an email link/web link etc).

Is there enough screen to really pass on all the desktop mentalities? Surely that thinking, in one way, is the downside to Microsoft's approach?

 

[rockosmodurnlif]

Pre, much like Wii, is a stupid name. Hopefully the Pre does for Palm what the Wii did for Nintendo.

The OS looks nice, I don't like the device. I imagine the Pre 2 or whatever they call it will be much more appealing to the eye. Not that I will be switching. I'm finished with hardware keyboards and sliding parts on my phone.

 

[clevin]

What might be useful, is to explain a user scenario, about using multi-tasking, and how you'd see true multi-tasking, vs what's going to be offered from Palm/Pre this year that we know of.

I think its better if people just watch the video. I dont think my words is convincing enough here.

There are two meet the Pre videos on palm.com, which demonstrate two such scenarios.

the other video is the CES video, which I got inspired alot.

I think these three videos covers pretty much most exciting stuff about the Pre.

There are many people mouthing off without knowing much, but I hope people remember, apple only thrive on competition, just like any other company, to deny the inferiority aspect of apple products is not the way of helping the company you like.

 

[Stately]

because palm holds patent on alot of thing that apple infringed on? you dont think palm did smartphone for 15 years holds no crucial patent that can shake iPhone out of market, do you?

not to mention, apple's multi-touch patent doesn't necessarily cover what the Pre can do, apple didn't patent a gesture, they patented how the gesture was interacted by the device, AFAIK.


yeah, sorry, hopefully apple learn the issue more seriously than you think, you really should follow the video of the Pre first. which I bet apple already done so for more than once.

You'll see when that 3.0 is released lol. Copy and paste is only one of the great features. I think Apple has some other great surprises as well and we will be getting document editing capability on top of that. Not to mention the release of i phone 3.0 is imminent also.

 

[clevin]

You'll see when that 3.0 is released lol. Copy and paste is only one of the great features. I think Apple has some other great surprises as well and we will be getting document editing capability on top of that. Not to mention the release of i phone 3.0 is imminent also.

Its sad that copy and paste can be a "great feature" of iPhone 3.0....

 

[EricBrian]

I think it looks pretty cool. I can't wait to see it.

 

[Stately]

Its sad that copy and paste can be a "great feature" of iPhone 3.0....

It's not sad. It's great because Apple takes their time in order to try to get things correct the first time around. Why is OSX the best? Because Apple took their time to build a better UI. Smoooth sailin' now. So much so that once you go Mac . . . you know the rest.

 

[imwoblin]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)

I'm as big an Apple head as most, but you coolade drinkers who worship all things Apple as if they can do no wrong are killing me. I've played with the pre-release Pre and it is indeed very slick. The multitasking OS allowing access to may open apps with just a flick of you're pinky is miles ahead of what I'm using on my iPhone 3G. If the final release is as smooth and fast as the pre-release, Palm will have a winner and we Mac heads will get a better product down the road as Apple goes back to work to top em...

 

[kdarling]

How come Apple isn't suing Palm over patent infringement? What are they waiting for?

What do you think they'd sue over? Apple has no patent on multi-touch.

Read a little more here.

Even more interesting is reading the so-called "iphone patent" and seeing all the references to things Apple used from others. Like, oh say, displaying an entire web page on a small screen and tapping a section to zoom in on it.

Almost nothing in the iPhone is new to the touch industry. Just new to the mass consumer.

 

[pugnut]

Interesting that they will not allow anyone to handle it

Other then their people, find it odd. For a product that is about to be released the hype in minimal as compared to the iPhone. Apple is beating them at the PR game every day.

 

[thiagos]

The woman talking sounds akwardly seductive.

It sounds pornographic.

 

[joemama]

What do you think they'd sue over? Apple has no patent on multi-touch.

Read a little more here.

Even more interesting is reading the so-called "iphone patent" and seeing all the references to things Apple used from others. Like, oh say, displaying an entire web page on a small screen and tapping a section to zoom in on it.

Almost nothing in the iPhone is new to the touch industry. Just new to the mass consumer.

This only strengthens Apples case, no? It's clear Palm copied Apple's scroll and swipe/slide.

 

[Stately]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)

I'm as big an Apple head as most, but you coolade drinkers who worship all things Apple as if they can do no wrong are killing me. I've played with the pre-release Pre and it is indeed very slick. The multitasking OS allowing access to may open apps with just a flick of you're pinky is miles ahead of what I'm using on my iPhone 3G. If the final release is as smooth and fast as the pre-release, Palm will have a winner and we Mac heads will get a better product down the road as Apple goes back to work to top em...

I hear ya. I am an Apple head as well. It's simply because I admire them for their listening ear, innovation and desire to bring consumers quality products. So in any event, if they were a company like any other, that brightly illuminated apple on my pro would have no significance to me and I would have gone with another company. I mean the Pre looks cool, don't get me wrong. I think I'm just tired of hearing about all these supposed i phone busters. If everyone had the capability to do this that and the other with phone tech, they should have released it long ago. Instead many of Apples now competitors wanted to continue to release dribs and drabs of new tech here and there little by little in order to leech us out of our money for as long as possible. They have done so by always releasing a supposed "cool" new feature, such as a higher megapixel amount on a phone or new ringtones etc . . Now they feel pressured to keep up with the hype, so they are all coming out of the woodwork. So I guess I admire Apple for their ethical status of sorts as well.

 

[kdarling]

This only strengthens Apples case, no? It's clear Palm copied Apple's scroll and swipe/slide.

As I said, it was a little more reading. Not definitive.

I've been doing touchscreens for almost two decades, and touchpads for a decade before that. Kinetic scrolling is nothing new. Swipes, slides, ditto.

The only new (to me) effect that Apple did was the rebound from the end of a document. But then, as the article points out, Palm has some base patents on stuff Apple uses. So I suspect each will ignore the others' transgressions, in order to avoid a war neither would like.

 

[lostngone]

It's not sad. It's great because Apple takes their time in order to try to get things correct the first time around. Why is OSX the best? Because Apple took their time to build a better UI. Smoooth sailin' now. So much so that once you go Mac . . . you know the rest.

I wouldn't worry, clevin is just hate'in on the iPhone. The Pre is going to be just like the Zune. Lots of hype but nothing that is going make alot of people with iPhones want to switch.

 

[Stately]

I wouldn't worry, clevin is just hate'in on the iPhone. The Pre is going to be just like the Zune. Lots of hype but nothing that is going make alot of people with iPhones want to switch.

Exactly and that's not me hating on the Pre either. The facts are the facts. It's like having Nikes vs. that no name brand that your parents forced you to get when you were little to prove the point of value lol. Of course you could play in them but they didn't look as cool and in most cases weren't as comfortable because not a lot of thought went into them, except making money.

 

[Slim02]

Actually Nokia's do sync with windows and macs. I owned an N93 and N93I and used to sync both with my macs. The Mac has built in synchronization and if that is not suffice enough there is always The missing sync.
And here is an article from Apple's page about iSync:
(Support where you need it.
iSync 3.0 in Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard provides built-in support for hundreds of popular mobile phones. Just plug-in or pair your phone, choose which calendars or contacts you want to synchronize, and away you go!

More where that came from.
If you have a newer phone than what is supported in Leopard, you can usually download the appropriate plug-in from the phone vendor or a third-party developer.)
Link:http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/isync/
here is your list of mobile phones (A wide range) that sync with a Mac
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2824

Yes but can it sync ringtones, music, videos, photos, bookmarks, email accounts back and forth on a Mac? No! Only Address Book Contacts, Address Book Pictures, Calendar and To Do Items. So you call that real sync up?.. Sorry the iPhone does way more then that and do it on both windows and Mac..

Your original assertion was


You seem to be trying to redefine your question to hide the fact that your assertion was WRONG.(I'd add flashy lights if I could)
And I hardly think of software written by the phone manufacturer to be third party - by definition they are party to the syncing process. It's just that bit more fluid with the iPhone because the phone manufacturer and the computer manufacturer are the same.

Sorry I am not wrong because you can only sync Address Book Contacts, Address Book Pictures, Calendar and To Do Items.. That to me is not syncing.. Ringtones, music, videos, photos, bookmarks, email accounts and so on is real syncing then that crap you call syncing.. No other phone like the iPhone can be sync up like the iPhone can do on both Windows and Mac..

 

[ArtursBoy]

I think its better if people just watch the video. I dont think my words is convincing enough here.

There are two meet the Pre videos on palm.com, which demonstrate two such scenarios.

the other video is the CES video, which I got inspired alot.

I think these three videos covers pretty much most exciting stuff about the Pre.

There are many people mouthing off without knowing much, but I hope people remember, apple only thrive on competition, just like any other company, to deny the inferiority aspect of apple products is not the way of helping the company you like.

Well, it's nice to find comments that don't start with the words "THE IPHONE SUCKS!" when comparing it to the Pre from those who feel Pre is a better phone/OS (or those who prefer Android or BB or WM devices)

I've seen the videos and read the reviews, and the Palm Pre looks great. Once thing I can't help but notice, however, is Palm's emphasis on how the OS looks, which is fine, Apple does this as well, but somehow I feel that the way they are implementing it cuts into the ease of use of the device.

For example, Pre's applications are actually on a submenu of the home screen. (Once on the home screen, you click the "up" arrow for the applications card to pop up). This is similar to a WM device, where the "up" arrow is instead the Applications folder or the Start button. Once in the applications card, not only can you slide to the side, but you can slide down, I can see this being a bit confusing when trying to locate an application if you have more than a "few" applications (I have 70+ apps on my iPhone, so I feel that looking for an app going up and down might take me longer to find it instead of just sliding to the sides). Definitely not a big deal, no one's gonna say the phone sucks because of this, but I think its just an example on how Apple might have tried to make it as easy as possible to operate the iPhone, and in doing that, they've given up a certain amount of eye candy. (iPhone does not have any submenus to get to the apps, the apps are on the home screen).

Granted, the iPhone's UI is now almost 2 years old, and we like to update things. It'll be interesting to see how Apple updates their UI while maintaining its simplicity. Hopefully improved hardware will allow true multitasking in addition to Push notifications, and maybe use something similar to "Spaces" on Leopard to manage open applications.

I'm looking forward for the Pre to be released, and very interested on seeing how Apple responds. I would like to see Apple finally giving in and introducing an iPhone with a physical keyboard in addition to an iPhone with no keyboard (iPhone Touch and iPhone Pro ?). I feel they should have more than one phone. Expand your line up Apple, the touchscreen-only phone doesn't need to be replaced, it should be complemented with a keyboard model for those who prefer/need it.

 

[Analog Kid]

The Pre gives people something nice to say about Palm after they're dead.

"Yeah, Palm was kind of a disaster but I have to say the Pre looked pretty good."

 

[leonstafford]

Even as a self-confessed Mac fanboy, this looks like the nicest interface alternative out there.

Palm really lost their status in the PDA world after releasing crap OS's, so me's guessing they want to come out fighting...

The thing which could (and likely will) neutralize this from being an iPhone killer is the SDK/developer support. App store shouldn't be a limiting factor if the software is good and at the right price, though iTunes is already on most people's computers....

I'd like to see Apple stop whining about Palm stealing it's technology which has been out for what 2 years now? Time and energy better spent bringing out the next super-device to put everyone behind them several years.....again!

 

[str1f3]

i dont think you followed the webos developing detail, webapp is different idea than what webos is allowing. and it will convincing no one to claim safari's web app is anything remotely close to true "multi-tasking".

The Pre offers desktop level multi-tasking experiences, and its best so far on a mobile device, More than technical issues, the user experiences will be at a completely different level than any current smartphones in the market (iPhone included), which are all, one way or the other, glorified app launchers.

My point is apple technically isn't capable of developing a good mobile os. I dont expect people here to agree, but I do want to put it out.

for topics about sales, innovations, revolutions, good or bad. I really have no interest to debate it since there is absolutely zero data to support any comparison. I will leave that to a later discussion.

This is a ridiculous notion that apple is not technically capable of delivering a mobile os and this is coming from someone who's contract ends in June. The pre could not have been done as it is on last years hardware. The pre has a significantly better processor and more ram than the iPhone 3g. Heck, the ipod touch has better hardware than the iPhone 3g. It is yet to be seen what is in hardware 3.0.

The pre has better integration than the iPhone which is something I would have liked to see in the sdk. It is a lot shorter walk for apple to add hooks for the integration for apps (i.e. fandango & mail) than it is for palm to add an api for something like gaming. You point to the pre website video which shows want palm wants you to see. The palmcentral video is more telling. It is like watching the iPhone 3g commercials and believing 3g is really that fast. In the palmcentral video, the pre is much more sluggish and choppy. You can say that it is not released yet, but it was nearly three months since the pre was initially shown and is not far from the time that the pre has to be released. This is not even considering that they are not letting anybody touch the phone (unless you're a celebrity). Bonnie Cha has complained about this on cnet.

Right now, I suspect the pre is a better phone but that all around the iPhone is better all around mobile/multimedia device. I do think though that the webOS is a better looking os and put more thought into the notification system that apple has put into their pns.

I don't know how anyone can say one or the other is better. The iPhone hardware 3.0 hasn't even been introduced yet and nobody can even touch the pre which is really weird at this late juncture.

 

[ArtursBoy]

As I said, it was a little more reading. Not definitive.

I've been doing touchscreens for almost two decades, and touchpads for a decade before that. Kinetic scrolling is nothing new. Swipes, slides, ditto.

The only new (to me) effect that Apple did was the rebound from the end of a document. But then, as the article points out, Palm has some base patents on stuff Apple uses. So I suspect each will ignore the others' transgressions, in order to avoid a war neither would like.

Kdarling, in a way I think we are overlooking the positives a patent brings. If we all act like anyone can copy just about anything, then development wouldn't be as intense (or as well funded) because companies would just realize they can simply steal from what others come up with, so why spend resources ourselves? If a company feels their findings will be protected, and they will eventually benefit (most importantly benefit financially) from it, they will be more likely to research and develop.

I don't think the infringed patents from either Apple or Palm should be overlooked. I think they in fact should (and I think they probably will) file lawsuits, but instead of fighting until the "end", they will "settle" outside of court. If they don't at least try to do something that says "don't copy me", it'll signal others to do the same. I'm no lawyer, but Apple might be waiting for the Pre to go on sale, since at that point, Palm would be "profiting" from patents owned by Apple, and well then Palm would most likely respond in a similar manner, but in the end, I think they would just find a settlement outside of court.