Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Palm Pre Emulating an iPod to Accomplish iTunes Sync?
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I am generally in favor of devices 'just working,' so it is nice what Palm has done and all, but since they took such a shady approach I think retaliation might be in order.
What if Apple reverse engineers Palm's approach, detects when Pre's are syncing, and acts as if the songs have been transferred normally. It will appear to the Pre as though the files have arrived just fine, but they have actually been secretly corrupted during the transfer (only the outbound files, not the library version) rendering them unplayable.
Or more hilariously, they could work out licensing with Rick Astley to rickroll Pre users on every track
Not a single person on this board knows the approach that Palm took to accomplish this, so I think we are jumping the gun by saying they are shady, or violating terms.
The fact that a report from a competitor is being viewed as news is what's shady. If the Pre can sync with iTunes who does it hurt the most-the guy who made this article, because less people will buy his software. Clearly he wants you to believe that at any minute Apple will pull the plug, so be safe and use his software instead.
I think there has to be a statement coming from Apple regarding this. If not it means two things: It's not a big deal and this was agreed to, OR they are waiting until right before launch to do something.
Or maybe Apple just needs to update a text-string in iTunes.
"Synching iPod" is rather generic, after all.
Does iTunes say "synching iPhone" if an iPhone is attached? (I don't know, so i"m asking.)
Other devices have been able to connect to iTunes in the past. Maybe iTunes just doesn't know what a "Pre" is yet.
With iTunes selling all unprotected AAC tracks now, any device that can play AAC format can play iTunes store purchases. iTunes doesn't have to sync with those devices, but Apple can't do anything to stop other devices from playing those tracks.(except re-institute DRM). Maybe we will see other AAC capable devices connecting to iTunes soon.
If the Pre is simply sending a USB Vendor/Device ID that says "I'm an iPod" then Apple might be able to make Palm stop doing that but they can't break it without breaking every other iPod that sends that same Vendor/Device ID.
"Synching iPod" is rather generic, after all.
Does iTunes say "synching iPhone" if an iPhone is attached? (I don't know, so i"m asking.)
Other devices have been able to connect to iTunes in the past. Maybe iTunes just doesn't know what a "Pre" is yet.
With iTunes selling all unprotected AAC tracks now, any device that can play AAC format can play iTunes store purchases. iTunes doesn't have to sync with those devices, but Apple can't do anything to stop other devices from playing those tracks.(except re-institute DRM). Maybe we will see other AAC capable devices connecting to iTunes soon.
If the Pre is simply sending a USB Vendor/Device ID that says "I'm an iPod" then Apple might be able to make Palm stop doing that but they can't break it without breaking every other iPod that sends that same Vendor/Device ID.
So you either are an iPhone fanatic or you are all over getting your mobile with little CD-ROMs and hunting the internet for appropriate Mac OS X plugins.
There are other (and better) phones out there than iPhone, and having the Pre sync with iTunes is no big thing. They could just write an iSync plugin, if iSync wasn't that POS, it developed to be. But then they couldn't get Music syncing, and every normal user would be all over it.
But guess what: No bluetooth syncing for the Pre. Strange decision indeed.
Perhaps true at a casual glance, but Jon Johansen is in a position to know, and he also is pretty well known and has credibility.
Read about him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Lech_Johansen (DVD Jon)
arn
Right. But if somebody is breaking laws here, then it's Apple. They have huge problems in Norway and other countries because iTunes is such a closed proprietary and customer hostile system.
But even in the (too) corporate friendly United States there should be a lawsuit against Apple to force them to open iTunes for third party hardware: License the necessary protocols to anybody who wants to use them and make sure that iTunes works with everything that wants to connect to it - and not just iPods. You know, just like Microsoft has lost all those lawsuits and was forced to license their protocols to third parties.
What I don't understand is that Apple does not play well with others, but you guys even applaud them for it. Is this kind of attitude an American thing?
I agree that the source is quite credible, but the article sounds like more of an opinion than any fact gathering.
I think his knowledge is on the technical side, of how this could have been done, and not so much on the 'corporate side' of what agreements may be in place.
I mean no disrespect to Jon, and I'm sorry if it came off that way.
Pre-pare for Disappointment
Apple's list includes old, sync-compatible players which the iTunes jukebox software supported before the iTunes Music Store launched with FairPlay DRM.
Apple can always cite their licensing agreement with the labels as a restriction over support for products other than iPods and iPhones.
The Average Joe will be mad at Palm for falsely advertising that their product works with iTunes. If Palm really believed what they preached, their product wouldn't really need desktop sync clients, let alone unauthorized ones.
As much as consumers would want choice, I can't help but side with Apple. Especially after seeing how their IP has been blatantly ripped off by childish competition.
With a flick of a switch Apple will upset Palm's new users. This might turn out to be the #1 reason why the Pre might be this season's BB Storm. Foolish Rubenstein.
Sprint: Better add "Disabled iTunes Support" as one of the reasons in your 14th day service cancellation questionnaire.
Apple's list includes old, sync-compatible players which the iTunes jukebox software supported before the iTunes Music Store launched with FairPlay DRM.
Apple can always cite their licensing agreement with the labels as a restriction over support for products other than iPods and iPhones.
The Average Joe will be mad at Palm for falsely advertising that their product works with iTunes. If Palm really believed what they preached, their product wouldn't really need desktop sync clients, let alone unauthorized ones.
As much as consumers would want choice, I can't help but side with Apple. Especially after seeing how their IP has been blatantly ripped off by childish competition.
With a flick of a switch Apple will upset Palm's new users. This might turn out to be the #1 reason why the Pre might be this season's BB Storm. Foolish Rubenstein.
Sprint: Better add "Disabled iTunes Support" as one of the reasons in your 14th day service cancellation questionnaire.
Why buy from a company that makes it difficult for the media you buy to be used on devices made by other companies?
I can't see why anybody would be on Apple's side in this
Um, all the media I get from ITMS could be used with other devices I own (like my Nokia phone). If those devices don't support AAC, it's not Apple's problem.
Playing devils advocate: companies, or people, who are desperate sometimes put on the best performances to save themselves.
Not everything has to be a negative.
I think hes talking about Apple DRM songs.
I have many friends who won't bother with another player cause they bought a crap load of songs off the music store.
Why buy from a company that makes it difficult for the media you buy to be used on devices made by other companies?
I can't see why anybody would be on Apple's side in this
I'm on apples side. If I had written a piece of sync software to help sell my mp3 player I'd be pretty annoyed if someone piggybacked it and started using it to sync their hardware! It's apples software built for their customers and their iPods. They have every right to get annoyed over this IMO. I would. Palm should stop leeching off other programmers work and build their own sync software, or if they feel there should be a shared one, build an open source one and share with community! This is of course assuming apple didn't give them permission, which I seriously doubt. Well soon know when the next iTunes update is released.
True - Jon doesn't seem to have a Pre sitting in front of him, but I think we can safely assume that no corporate agreements are in place for this, based on comments during the demo:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/28/AR2009052802679.html
I said make it hard. Nothing about apple making it impossible. Stopping other devices makes sense from a business sense. It's horrible from a consumer point of view.
Who on earth is talking about AAC
?No it isn't. It specificly refers to iPod, and not some other device.
Um, most of the content people have in iTunes is NOT from the iTunes-store. I know that when I moved to iTunes, I moved my sizable mp3-collection to it.
iTunes has built-in support for certain third-party devices.
I said this earlier in a previous post; maybe I'm being incredibly naive, but I find it hard to believe that since Palm has so much riding on this that they would publicize this feature without being 100% sure it will work.
Then again that could be why Palm is possibly nearing extinction, because of poor business decisions.
I tend to agree. The success of the iPod and now the iPhone is due to just due to cool hardware but because of it's seamless integration with iTunes. iTunes was Apple's vehicle to sell more hardware and now Palm wants to use it too, despite it not being written by them and not coded by them.
Essentially they're taking a product that Apple has worked on since 2001 and is now one of the most widely used programs in the world, as a means to support their competing phone sales. If it isn't illegal is has to be called unethical.
Are there any left?
They could un-DRM their songs.
How exactly does Apple make it hard?Sure, iTunes might not sync with those devices, but the content is directly accessible as files and folders, and those could be synced with some third-part app.
Who on earth is talking about AAC
Since you talked about working with content bought from iTunes Store: you are. I mean, the stuff you buy from ITMS is AAC...
If what this guy says is true it's beyond reprehensible. To fool a piece of software ( and underlying frameworks ) into believing the Pre is an iPod is illegal in many arenas. It's as close to corporate espionage as you can get. And seeing how former iPod designers are doing this is evidence enough of wrongdoing. Regardless of whether a person thinks iTunes is a monopoly or not. Had they not used "iPod" as the vendor ID to connect it would be a different story.
This is either uninformed speculation or something that will not happen.
This is either uninformed speculation or something that will not happen.
By purposefully crippling the ability of iTunes to sync with other devices. Going out of their way to purposefully code to do so. Syncing a playlist etc from within iTunes is much easier than dragging from folders. Arguing otherwise is asinine.
I'm still not sure what you're talking about. Yes the media is AAC. This thread is about Apple purposefully crippling iTunes to maintain leverage over a competitors product. Not other companies not supporting AAC
.Except not at all.Peace said:
Ya, Palm is seriously walking on thin ice with the whole multi-touch thing and UI infringements and now this with iTunes and all their former Apple employees, WOW!!!
I know Palm has lots of patents too, but this is looking like it could turn into a big messy fight.
Apple WILL NOT let the Pre sync with iTunes PERIOD! Watch the next iTunes update come out way ahead of schedule in the next week or two!
I think the Pre looks cool and BY FAR the best and probably only REAL competition for the iPhone yet. But I am all for Apple protecting their ecosystem and IP.