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Palm re-enables iTunes sync
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I didn't take sides (because it doesn't affect me), I just think its silly when we get all up in arms about something like this, yet most those defending Apple probably download illegally, but it's totally fine to break copyright/steal someone else's material, as long as it isn't Apple. Hypocrisy is what I call it. I just wish people would stop trying to make their argument about IP, and just admit, like most others on this forum, they hate the "rival" at any cost. I would much rather see that.
Oh, I said I didn't like Apple blocking it? Really? Could yo go find that in my posts please? I'll pay you if you can
Like I must have said earlier, I have no interest in one party or the other, rather, I have all conflicting interests. Microsoft pays my bills, I have 2 MBs, iPod Touch 2g, and 3g, iPod Classic 3g, and I have a Palm Pre, that i do not sync because its a phone. I didn't buy those ipods for nothing!
Oh please, like i said to the last "developer"...I have some sites for you to get working on. Oh wait, its not about you actually being "offended" that anyone would steal, Its Apple, my bad.
Again, I am not taking sides, so telling me how much I'm a troll/fanboy won't work
It does actually. Apple have every right to run their business the way that they want/ You have consumer choice. If you don't like what Apple are doing then buy something else.
I don't like the fact that a Bugatti Veyron costs what it does. But I can't demand that they reduce the price of it. I love car analogies. Here's another. You buy a brand new Ford car, then mess around with the engine and fit a non standard part. The engine fails because of it. With what you are saying the manufacturer should cover you under warranty even though it was you who messed things up by using a non Ford part to get the car to do something that it wasn't designed for.
Likewise if Apple opened up iTunes for every device it would be Apple who gets blamed when there are incompatibilities with non Apple devices. Apple makes their own hardware for a very good reason. To avoid all the hardware incompatibilities that plague the PC world.
Why should Apple have to waste their time and money troubleshooting and bug finding in iTunes for non Apple devices?
As others have said Apple have NOT blocked other manufacturers from synching with iTunes. There is a very simple method for them to do it via XML. Others use it, but Palm decide not to because they can't be bothered. Either that or they can't face their device been seen to need a slightly less seamless way of synching music.
If Palm wants direct synching then they should develop their own iTunes style service.
Too bad that's not how it works. The fact is Palm has been scolded by the USB-IF over this behavior and they are the only player that is trying to get into iTunes this way instead of the documented way.
They are intentionally breaking the USB standard in order to profit from work Apple has paid to get done. It doesn't matter that it doesn't affect you or me that the Pre can sync with iTunes, what they have done, as an entity that defends their own IP, is wrong. They are the hypocrites.
If a user had come up with a hack to sync the Pre with iTunes and released it on the web for other Pre owners that are more technically inclined it would be one thing. This is Palm, the company, that is doing it and advertising it as one of their selling points.
Apple is now stuck in this cat and mouse game. They can't allow this behavior to go on or otherwise it might be viewed as something acceptable and others might start doing it. Don't forget iTunes sync is bi-directional and once legitimate music starts disappearing because some other vendor didn't implement the protocol properly, Apple will be stuck with the support calls. And the other vendors just get to ride on Apple's investment into iTunes syncing support, something they bought and developed for the last 9 years.
That is really what this is about. Forget everything else. The sad fact is it does affect us, because now Apple has to put time and money into this instead of putting it in bettering its products. It also affects Pre users, which were lied to and promised something Palm can't deliver in a stable and guaranteed fashion. And it affects the whole industry, in that the USB standard needs to be respected, or otherwise, devices might start being incompatible at one point if too many vendors decide to implement it their way instead of the standard way.
So that's why we didn't get the camera in the iPod Touch...DEATH TO PRE!
It affects Pre users? Really? Wanna scroll up to my last post a bit? This rivalry is clearly a childish one between Jon Rubenstein and Steve Jobs, the average consumer doesn't give a crap, actually most people don't even know whats going on. You are just so bored that you need to make this into a daytime soap opera.
P.S. Show me where this is affecting Apple making new products and I will stand corrected...good luck.
So that's why we didn't get the camera in the iPod Touch...DEATH TO PRE!
It affects Pre users? Really? Wanna scroll up to my last post a bit? This rivalry is clearly a childish one between Jon Rubenstein and Steve Jobs, the average consumer doesn't give a crap, actually most people don't even know whats going on. You are just so bored that you need to make this into a daytime soap opera.
P.S. Show me where this is affecting Apple making new products and I will stand corrected...good luck.
So you're saying Apple having to devote time to this is basically free ? The guy that spends his afternoon changing the device authentication code, passing it through testing, QA, packaging, release would just be playing solitaire otherwise ?
And you're saying that Pre users that were told it would work, but as of now, need to either not update iTunes or wait for WebOS updates if they did before they checked if the new update broke syncing are not impacted at all ?
Stop being naive. You're worst than the Apple fanboys you criticize.
@kbrittle how old are you? You must be 13 or 14 or something because you are just not getting that this is an ethics issue period.
And for you to sit their and accuse some of us for downloading illegally, yeah, I'm sure there are some people (quite a few probably) that do, but I, being a musician and a software programmer myself have never and will never illegal download or take something that that isn't mine, because I wouldn't want someone to do the same to me and my own creations (my livelihood depends on people being honest.)
You see kbrittle, unlike you, some people actually have integrity and morals, which is why you just. don't. get it. And now, yes, you are being a complete and total Troll; just arguing for argument's sake. So it's not worth it to try and explain it all to you any more.
And for you to sit their and accuse some of us for downloading illegally, yeah, I'm sure there are some people (quite a few probably) that do, but I, being a musician and a software programmer myself have never and will never illegal download or take something that that isn't mine, because I wouldn't want someone to do the same to me and my own creations (my livelihood depends on people being honest.)
You see kbrittle, unlike you, some people actually have integrity and morals, which is why you just. don't. get it. And now, yes, you are being a complete and total Troll; just arguing for argument's sake. So it's not worth it to try and explain it all to you any more.
Wasn't Reubinstein somehow related to the backdating scandal ?..I know the CFO quit because of it and he then started a venture capitol company that put up $325M or a 28% stake in Palm. He then proceeded to get Reubinstein to become the COO of Palm.
Looks like Palm is full of sleezebag techies. They won't stop doing this very illegal activity until they are busted for it and this last one where they emulate Apple,Inc. ( that's gutsy ) will be the last straw for the real Apple,Inc.
Look to see Palm lose it's accreditation with the USB folks sometime over the next few weeks.
And DVD Jon has his hand in it too.
Bye bye Palm,Inc.
Looks like Palm is full of sleezebag techies. They won't stop doing this very illegal activity until they are busted for it and this last one where they emulate Apple,Inc. ( that's gutsy ) will be the last straw for the real Apple,Inc.
Look to see Palm lose it's accreditation with the USB folks sometime over the next few weeks.
And DVD Jon has his hand in it too.
Bye bye Palm,Inc.
Lol, when did I opine on the ethics of the situation? Of course its unethical of them, my point was never is Palm or Apple right, if you want that, go to soemone else's posts. You need to read more carefully.
Anyhow, I just like calling out hypocrites. And good for you for not being a thief, unfortunately you are in the minority.
So you're saying Apple having to devote time to this is basically free ? The guy that spends his afternoon changing the device authentication code, passing it through testing, QA, packaging, release would just be playing solitaire otherwise ?
And you're saying that Pre users that were told it would work, but as of now, need to either not update iTunes or wait for WebOS updates if they did before they checked if the new update broke syncing are not impacted at all ?
Stop being naive. You're worst than the Apple fanboys you criticize.
I don't want your speculation and scenarios, I want you to show me some kind of concrete evidence.
From the Palm side it takes about 20-45 minutes to fix, I'm assuming its similar on Apple's end.
By the looks of it, Palm (being so small) is using a lot more resources that they definitely don't have, how 'bout Apple?
Most? Probably? Provide some specific examples or give up this ad hominem attack.
Wait, you truly believe changing a few lines of code in an app the size of Web OS or iTunes takes only 20-45 minutes ? You have never done software developpement of any kind if you truly believe this. Especially when changing said few lines results in modified device authentication.
You don't want speculation because it makes you look like a tool and a fool that doesn't know what he's talking about. You want the iTunes lead to come here and tell you what their testing and release process is like ?
Anyway, I'm done with you, an obvious Palm apologist. Come back when you stop being a hypocrite, calling people Apple fanboys when you yourself are just the black to their white.
And if you're really interested in a legitimate way on why Palm is wrong, read what this guy has to say, he sums it up pretty nicely :
http://hunter.pairsite.com/blogs/20091004/
All these people on this forum with music libraries in the tens of thousands?
(See the poll asking about music libraries)
That, coupled with http://technologyexpert.blogspot.com/2009/01/95-of-music-downloads-are-illegal-ifpi.html
....it's not looking too good
...and I'm still waiting for my links
(See the poll asking about music libraries)
That, coupled with http://technologyexpert.blogspot.com/2009/01/95-of-music-downloads-are-illegal-ifpi.html
....it's not looking too good
...and I'm still waiting for my links
Sorry that is complete bollocks. Most people don't want to steal, most people are honest.
And yes you were questioning ethics. We all are by even commenting on this.
Time it took for Palm Developers to re-enable iTunes sync for webOS 1.1: about five minutes (they just had to change the Vendor ID, after all)
http://www.precentral.net/rumor-webos-121-delayed-will-fix-itunes-sync
Oh and let me link you to a biased opinion as well
http://www.slate.com/id/2229856/
take care
Have you ever been involved in serious software development?
Do you know how much code is in WebOS or iTunes?
Do you know how much testing do you think Apple and Palm do to make sure that everything works?
You are talking weeks and weeks for a small change. 20-45 minutes is a laughable amount of time.
I don't think you get it, did i NOT just say it was unethical of them? Should I quote myself to help you out a bit? Read, think, then state your argument.
You're close but it won't take Apple "weeks and weeks" to fix Palm's faux paux.
Maybe a week. Or even a few days. You don't have to re-write the complete codebase to fix it.
Weeks and weeks? Wrong, they had both been pushing out updates days after one another, and if little old 1,000 employee Palm can do it, Apple can do it faster
Time it took for Palm Developers to re-enable iTunes sync for webOS 1.1: about five minutes (they just had to change the Vendor ID, after all)
http://www.precentral.net/rumor-webos-121-delayed-will-fix-itunes-sync
Oh and let me link you to a biased opinion as well
http://www.slate.com/id/2229856/
take care
Please don't talk about things you know nothing about. For a commercial release, so much dedicated testing is done. The code change may be 4 characters (1 vendor ID), however testing is done to try and break it. Every single conceivable test is done on multiple hardware configurations. The reason, they want to be absolutely sure, that on release, everything works.
Think about it... Apple have to go back and test on every type of iPod and iPhone, different firmware revisions, different OS versions (iTunes is supported on Tiger, Leopard, Snow Leopard, Windows XP (Home and Pro), Windows Vista (all versions 32 and 64 bit), Windows 7 (all versions 32 and 64 bit). Various chipsets and machines (iMacs from G4 to the latest Intel based, All Power Mac G4s, G5s and Mac Pros, All Mac Minis, All PowerBook G4s, all iBook G4s, all MacBook and MacBook Pros, Various PCs, using USB 1.1 and 2.0 ports, FireWire 400 and 800 ports (both 4 and 6 pin).
I doubt Palm will test quite as thoroughly, but their testing will still take a very long time to go through.
You don't get the big picture.
How many man hours (i.e. how long would it take one person) go into testing.
There are large teams of testers, not just one. The cost is many man weeks.