Does Apple prevent you from drag-n-dropping music to the Pre? No. Is drag-n-dropping so difficult now?
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Palm Releases WebOS 1.1, Restores iTunes Media Syncing
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For the people applauding this hack job move, you guys have no idea or respect for peoples hard work or respect for peoples property.
Let's say your GF or Wife just got the best boob job on the planet. So realistic, it's almost a miracle.
Now let's take your thinking and apply it with this situation.
I'm pretty sure you AINT gonna be liking it when every Tom, Dick and Harry want a piece of that magical spheres to get a hold on once in awhile. I bet you'll be guarding that pretty close to your "ahem" chest.
Hahahahaha +1
Heres what people who know nothing about software development don't understand. Your software needs to create a user experience. In Apples case its all part of one package that they control across the board with iPod, iTunes, iPhone, etc. If 30942293243 third party devices can sync with iTunes they have no way of controlling that user experience. What if palm or whatever device keeps corrupting songs? People are going to blame it on iTunes thus hurting apples image.
Sorry palm, you did wrong and I hope you get whats coming to you. For all of you defending palm, your very ignorant of the way things work. If you dont like the way palm pre doesnt sync to iTunes get an iPhone.
It is so kindergarten behavior for Palm to rely on a cheap workaround (and try to gain attention and sympathy at the same time) while other companies like Nokia went through the proper way by developing their own software to sync with iTunes content (and Apple is cool with it).
You do realize that dozens of non-Apple devices have been able to sync w/iTunes for years right?
Lethal-
All iTunes media files are accessible manually or by other software. Those files are on your hard drive and are not in any way hidden or encrypted (after DRM was removed). It is just that Palm cannot get from their lazy asses to make their own management and sync software. And not just because they are lazy but because it would cost them millions. Palm would probably go bankrupt in the process of making their own "iTunes". That is why they are acting like children here. I doubt anyone will be taking Palm seriously soon.
Presonally, wouldn't be surprised if did approach Apple and were told to drop dead and told a litany of excuses of how it couldn't possibly be done in any reasonable amount of time. Palm pointing out the Soundjam legacy and the new DRM free landscape ... just like back then. Apple sticking to their drop dead stance. So went back and over a couple of weekends had something working. Primarily at first because the litany of excuse were just bunk. After a while it just takes on a life as a "Well F' you too" hack. Eventually someone in marketing see it and sees it as a inexpensive dig at Apple. and ta-da becomes a launch marketing feature.
If your music is in iTunes , the protocol has been hacked and know (Linux iPod sync tools) , and not that hard for Palm to mimic the handshake. then it is a minor hack that saves some consumers some hassle.
There no significant R&D being lifted. Some id numbers largely which are subject to copyright. People keep trying to characterize this as some code that Palm stole.
The other major factor is that this is only a very small subset of what iTunes does. Why does someone have to create a GUI / management / etc. if all want to do is put some files on a device.
I don't think Palm is too cheap to build duplicative software. I think there is higher value added stuff for them to work on in the short term. They just got the SDK out the door. If a choose between getting the SDK squared away and duplicate the functionaly of already existing programs ..... which one would you put as a higher priority to long term objectives?
Especially if there is a drumbeat out there about meta sync management programs out there that are going to obsolete iTunes. Wait for one of them to get real traction and then buy it if necessary or just work closely with them if cheaper.
From a consumer perspective each vendor build their own sync program and you own multiple devices from different vendors and buy music from different vendors .... that is just dumb.
Funny, but the worst analogy I've heard yet.For the people applauding this hack job move, you guys have no idea or respect for peoples hard work or respect for peoples property.
Let's say your GF or Wife just got the best boob job on the planet. So realistic, it's almost a miracle.
Now let's take your thinking and apply it with this situation.
I'm pretty sure you AINT gonna be liking it when every Tom, Dick and Harry want a piece of that magical spheres to get a hold on once in awhile. I bet you'll be guarding that pretty close to your "ahem" chest.
It's not like Palm hacked iTunes.. they simply used a generic a USB device ID (USB Mass Storage Device) and the BUS ID for an iPod. I don't recall those being protected by any law.
Most USB device ID's are very generic and shared among different hardware manufacturers.
The iPod Shuffle's manufacturer ID for example, appears as a "Compatible USB storage device" in Windows, not as an Apple device.
Hell the driver was written by Microsoft, not Apple.
The real work comes in coding WebOS to support the sync protocol for iTunes.
This is what I suspect Apple tweaked.
If Apple comes up with a new iTunes update to block this before they fix the broken EFI for the Macbook Pro 13 and 15 I will be SERIOUSLY ANGRY.
Other than that, it's a battle of two giant companies. I don't care. Though I do think Palm didn't inform their customers well enough that Apple doesn't support what they were doing and would prolly try to break it...
Other than that, it's a battle of two giant companies. I don't care. Though I do think Palm didn't inform their customers well enough that Apple doesn't support what they were doing and would prolly try to break it...
Millions? Are you daf. Minimally, all they need to do is sync. That is pretty straightforward if just going to select a playlist and sync the files on that list.
Having trouble how that becomes a million dollar program in development costs.
All the rest of the stuff that iTunes does ... yeah perhaps. Buy from store(s) , play radio , view video , ...... blah , blah , blah. If want to get into a pissing match as to which one is the "one , all emcompassing, manage all media from any source" program .... yeah that could be millions.
However, the customers true root cause problem is that they simply want to put playlist "foo" onto the Pre. That's it.
Apple has every right to control what can and cannot sync with iTunes. That being said, there is absolutely NOTHING stopping palm from writing a program for OSX or any other OS to create there own itunes like program that syncs music and other data with the palm Pre.
It is not a anti-competitive practice it like what has been previous said interfering with the end user experience. Because the palm is not an ipod it could actually foreseeable get apple in trouble with the content providers of the itunes store as it could allow for a distribution method that is not legally approved of by the content providers.
Palm pre is a great phone and WebOS is a very good OS but it has little to no support. If Palm can somehow survive on this hail mary pass great but the fact that they are openly making so that there OS can sync directly without a third party application is just asking for trouble..
It is not a anti-competitive practice it like what has been previous said interfering with the end user experience. Because the palm is not an ipod it could actually foreseeable get apple in trouble with the content providers of the itunes store as it could allow for a distribution method that is not legally approved of by the content providers.
Palm pre is a great phone and WebOS is a very good OS but it has little to no support. If Palm can somehow survive on this hail mary pass great but the fact that they are openly making so that there OS can sync directly without a third party application is just asking for trouble..
All you fanboys should stop sharing files between your Mac and Windows machines because your Mac is pretending to be a PC which is pathetic. I just lost all respect for Apple. I hope they die tomorrow. You see Mac OS X is using Samba which reverse engineered the CIFS protocol when Microsoft wouldn't license it to them. Samba finally started incorporating code written using licensed documentation in 2008, which Microsoft was required to provide due to a European court decision. So that means that every release of OS X has code that uses deception to talk to Windows machines!!!!!!! (Leopard was released in Oct. 2007).
The facts are here, but fanboys, don't click the link because it could cause you to break out in hives due to your fact allergy.
http://www.samba.org/samba/PFIF/index.html
The facts are here, but fanboys, don't click the link because it could cause you to break out in hives due to your fact allergy.
http://www.samba.org/samba/PFIF/index.html
Why should they warn their users? If they can whip out a bug fix faster than your EFI updates you've been waiting on and faster than Apple can make the protocol more complicated than necessary .... it will be a couple day outage.
Honestly I would expect that if Apple did something that wasn't a part time hack workaround they'd announce they were done. So far I suspect it is an amusing slideline over at Palm to do between recompiles of something more serious.
Not sure why everyone is defending Apple here
Seriously though, if you bought music and own the rights to it, you should be allowed to put it on whatever f'in device you want...an iphone, ipod, mp3 player, cd, dvd, or a Palm Pre...
I prefer to put mine on an iphone, but I have no problem with people putting it on a Pre.
Seriously, let's not be complete fan boys here...
Quoting this post but this could apply to any of the 'but it's a monopoly' views.
Apple ALREADY allows devices to sync to iTunes. They provide your iTunes library in a handy XML file and there are hooks to allow third party apps to work with iTunes. Blackberry sync is probably the most obvious example of this off the top of me head. If Palm would simply use the existing mechanisms and write their own damn software instead of using this kludge none of the problems would exist.
There are a number of problems for Apple with Palm's 'solution', not the least of which is that should Apple accept it and say nothing they could be setting themselves up for a situation where they're being expected to support it and would get a massive negative backlash if they didn't do so. Which is ridiculous.
What is iTunes? A music player and music store.
Why doesn't Palm just make a palmTunes that looks and does the exact same thing? It would allow users to organize their music and buy new music. Palm could contract with Amazon for music.
IF PALM WAS SMART, THEY WOULD CREATE A PALM TUNES AND CONTRACT WITH APPLE TO PROVIDE THE CONTENT. IT WOULD ESSENTIALLY BE ITUNES CONTENT, BUT IT WOULD BE PRESENTED THROUGH A PALM TUNES PROGRAM.
Why doesn't Palm just make a palmTunes that looks and does the exact same thing? It would allow users to organize their music and buy new music. Palm could contract with Amazon for music.
IF PALM WAS SMART, THEY WOULD CREATE A PALM TUNES AND CONTRACT WITH APPLE TO PROVIDE THE CONTENT. IT WOULD ESSENTIALLY BE ITUNES CONTENT, BUT IT WOULD BE PRESENTED THROUGH A PALM TUNES PROGRAM.
iTunes is multimedia jukebox software. iTunes Music Store is a store. They are not one in the same.
Lethal
Very true. Controlling too much and vertically is frowned upon. I have to believe Apple will threaten but ultimately be required to allow other hardware connect to iTunes. Apple shareholders are only ones who benefit from Apple's policies/control. As customers we should all want competition and Apple doesn't like to play fair in that way. It gets away with it on computers because it only has 5% of the market. However, Apple has a GIGANTIC share of music and player markets. Its strategy will not flow over and offer it the same protection with its iTunes/iPods/iPhones. I predict within ten years Apple will be required to play fair and allow competing devices to attach to iTunes being the music empire it is.
I give it one more time before Apple makes it a legal battle. As far as Apple losing due to a monopoly, that won't happen. What do they have a monopoly on? Their products and software? There are tons of places online to purchase music. Apple simply says that their software is for use with their products, not others. If you don't like iTunes, don't buy an iPod or purchase content from iTunes. I see nothing wrong with what Apple is doing.
No, Apple supports a way to sync with iTunes. Palm chose to ignore this supported way to sync with iTunes.
Nokia/Symbian and Blackberries all sync with iTunes using supported methods that also sync playlists.
Palm is just too lazy to actually write the software properly to do it with SUPPORTED methods.
First you are dumb, Apple communicates with PC's using supported methods (Samba to which you link) with all appropriate licenses. In fact, it is funny you mention Samba, because Samba generally adopts Microsoft's own protocols better than MS itself.
What Palm is doing is by unsupported methods.
The funny thing is, Apple supports 3rd parties syncing with iTunes. This is how Blackberries and Symbian devices sync with iTunes. Apple has no problem what so ever using supported methods.
I agree with your sentiments.
Why should Apple put so much time and effort into this when there are more important things to be concentrating on, like their own customers. When the new hybrid iTunes/Store/DVD Player/Front Row software comes out (in my dreams) it will break the sync anyway.
If I was a Palm or Blackberry customer it would be easier if I could just sync via the jukebox program itself instead of having some bloated and pointless syncing application wasting space on my hard drive.
No harm done I say.
+1 ... the analogies on here are so ridiculous and not even close to the real thing, pretty soon someones gonna come up with, "It's like you went next door and slept with your neighbors wife and then afterward you were like, hey dude, can I have one of your eggo's? And he's like no way man, leggo my eggo."
Uhhh, competing devices can today, see my posts above, even with playlists!
In fact, you can even drag and drop your non-DRM'd music to your favorite music player if you like.
There seems to be a lot of confusion in this thread. I don't understand why people are taking Palm's side.
First of all, iTunes sales make up less than 1% of Apple's overall revenue, so saying their music sales would increase by letting Palm sync is irrelevant.
Music you purchase off of iTunes can just as easily be imported into other music syncing software; so Palm users can still purchase iTunes music and use other software to sync it onto their phones. What Palm (Apple's biggest competition in the phone market) is doing is hijacking Apple's software, designed as a primary selling point for their media devices, and dressing the Pre up as an iPod so it can sync. Apple sure as hell has a right to not let their competition use their software primary designed for their products.
Palm has all the tools available to create their own software for their devices, they are just lazy. Instead they like to hack into Apple's multiple times and play their childish game. The ones really getting screwed over will be Palm's customers. They promise iTunes compatibility and use it as a selling point, but what happens when Apple updates iTunes again and yet again removes this compatibility? It's false advertisement and the number of complaints and Pre returns will continue to rise.
And before anyone says Apple has a monopoly with iTunes, you really need to think again. There's so many other good services like Amazon out there, Palm just needs to finally grow up and stop taking shortcuts; first the multitouch stealing and now the iTunes hacking - you think they would learn their lesson.
I can't wait to watch this all unfold. Like the other poster said, Palm will have their asses handed to them - they are already a dying company.
First of all, iTunes sales make up less than 1% of Apple's overall revenue, so saying their music sales would increase by letting Palm sync is irrelevant.
Music you purchase off of iTunes can just as easily be imported into other music syncing software; so Palm users can still purchase iTunes music and use other software to sync it onto their phones. What Palm (Apple's biggest competition in the phone market) is doing is hijacking Apple's software, designed as a primary selling point for their media devices, and dressing the Pre up as an iPod so it can sync. Apple sure as hell has a right to not let their competition use their software primary designed for their products.
Palm has all the tools available to create their own software for their devices, they are just lazy. Instead they like to hack into Apple's multiple times and play their childish game. The ones really getting screwed over will be Palm's customers. They promise iTunes compatibility and use it as a selling point, but what happens when Apple updates iTunes again and yet again removes this compatibility? It's false advertisement and the number of complaints and Pre returns will continue to rise.
And before anyone says Apple has a monopoly with iTunes, you really need to think again. There's so many other good services like Amazon out there, Palm just needs to finally grow up and stop taking shortcuts; first the multitouch stealing and now the iTunes hacking - you think they would learn their lesson.
I can't wait to watch this all unfold. Like the other poster said, Palm will have their asses handed to them - they are already a dying company.
But Apple does let their competition access iTunes. Photos, non-DRM media, podcasts, playlists, etc., can all be synced up w/non-Apple devices.
If Palm stole multi-touch so did Apple because multi-touch was not created by either of them.Lethal