Palm Releases WebOS 1.1, Restores iTunes Media Syncing

[bruinsrme]

If the customer loves the marble like surface of the Pre (well thats how I describe it anyway) that does not give Apple the right to hire palms design engineers and stuff the iPhone in to an exact replica of that enclosure.

Oh cmon now, apple doesn't hire Xbox marketing executives from their European divisions or AMD VPs of chip design/manufacturing. Whatabout the IBM executive that had to wait 6 months before being eligible to go to work after IBM sued Apple. Can you honestly tell me tht tey won't use their knowledge to improve the company and having their patent lawyers sifting through countless patents to see what they can and can not use without being sued and what they can use and the implications of the infringement?

Please no high horses here. Apple is just as crafty as the rest of the companies that make the toys we like/love and hate.

 

[chaosconan]

If I was Apple I would put a web os virus or initiate the kill switch into iTunes so that next time if it detects Palm it sends a virus to the device to infect it or sends a kill switch to disable the device completely and erase all data.

 

[seedster2]

I called it in the last thread

This is quite entertaining. Some of you react as if Palm has personally robbed your home All this talk about illegality, morals and FUD about poor sales is hysteria to sort of make yourselves feel better about Palm's moxie. It sort of reminds me of the unlocking days when these same vocalists proclaimed that Apple would stop it with this update yaydyayda. here we are years later and unlocking is still a cake walk. /ATT had to change their business model to really combat it.

My G/F had a hardware issue with her Palm Pre and brought her phone in and they replaced it on the spot. When we had iphone 3Gs we both went through multiple handsets as well. Similar no hassle exchange. What's the big deal?

When you consider that the Pre is selling well on one of the most unpopular carriers in the US and expected to be released on Verizon, AT&T and overseas shortly, one can safely say that this device has been a hit for Palm.

Palm decided it's worth it to keep issuing software updates to maintain iTunes compatibility. Shrewd because it keeps them in the news and forces apple to risk negative media coverage while utilizing resources to update iTunes on a faster cycle than they'd like. Moreover, apple risks annoying their own iTunes users who have to constantly update their software to break the syncing with other devices.

Despite what the vocal zealots may dream, I doubt any Pre users will be returning the device based on temporary iTunes incompatibility. Users simply dont have to update their iTunes and they are insured synchronization. Pre owners can continue to sync their devices or revert back to the last functional release. Apple is well within their rights to continue to break the syncing, but the question is will it be worth putting in the effort.

 

[Mr. Gates]

Stay Out Of My Clubhouse !

Don't be so Lame Apple , they want to Play too!, H3ll open up the playground and let us all play with you. Do you not want to make Friends? Well go sit in the corner then .....and wear the DUNCE CAP B!AtcH

 

[bobertoq]

I honestly don't get how this is a bad thing. Can Apple really not take a little competition? Just switch to Songbird...

 

[Great Dave]

... Palm is the sad and pathetic company who can't develop their own software and have to mooch off the work of others.

Totally disagree.

It isn't like Palm is taking Apple's software and rebranding it as their own.

All it does is allow you to access your stuff.

Actually, Apple should love it as Palm is just marketing iTunes for Apple for free.

And Apple has done plenty of mooching of its own in the past.
Apple is a monopoly that should be brought down a notch.

 

[inkswamp]

As a Pre owner I just don't care. The only time I used iTunes is when I owned an iPhone. Frankly, there are way better apps out there meant for syncing media. I know 5 people who use the Pre at work alone and none of them sync with iTunes. This really isn't that big of a deal.

On another note, Apple really needs to be careful how they handle this situation. It won't take much for the DOJ to look at Apple's iTunes/iPod as being a monopoly. They are by far the most dominate force in the multi-billion dollar industry that is online music. Considering the anti-business Democratic control in DC it will not take much. Obama's new appointee to the DOJ's antitrust division is already targeting Google as a possible monopoly, and they haven't really pulled anything "evil".

Oh fer f@#$% sake. How many times are people going to repeat this nonsense?

* Having a monopoly isn't illegal.

* Abusing one's monopoly power to create an anti-competitive environment in a given market is illegal.

* The market in question here is digital downloads.

* The market in question here IS NOT iTunes.

* Apple can keep anyone they want out of iTunes which isn't anti-competitive because in doing so...

* Apple has not used their power in the music industry to conspire in keeping competitors out of the digital download market.

* 70% of the digital download market is a far cry from a monopoly.

If you respond to any of the above points, please cite some sources. I have no interest in opinions.

 

[bobertoq]

So Apple is not allowed to protect their own IP which they have spent money and time developing? Palm is the sad and pathetic company who can't develop their own software and have to mooch off the work of others.

So someone isn't allowed to have access to their music through their phone? Does this not seem remotely monopolistic or unfair to the owner of the Palm?

 

[Packersfan27]

Palm, you have balls.

I applaud you.

 

[tundrabuggy]

As a Pre owner I just don't care. The only time I used iTunes is when I owned an iPhone. Frankly, there are way better apps out there meant for syncing media. I know 5 people who use the Pre at work alone and none of them sync with iTunes. This really isn't that big of a deal.

On another note, Apple really needs to be careful how they handle this situation. It won't take much for the DOJ to look at Apple's iTunes/iPod as being a monopoly. They are by far the most dominate force in the multi-billion dollar industry that is online music. Considering the anti-business Democratic control in DC it will not take much. Obama's new appointee to the DOJ's antitrust division is already targeting Google as a possible monopoly, and they haven't really pulled anything "evil".

I stood in line and bought a Palm Pre.....after a week, my screen cracked and then and it became a useless brick....the Pre was far from impressive after owning an iPhone....now, I could really careless if Palm survives or dies tomorrow....but I certainly would not want to be a Pre owner with iTunes off and on from here on out......you and the 5 people you know dont impress Palm obviously because they put some engineering resources into fixing the sync......there must be a significant number of Pre owners who do care about iTunes or Palm would not have advertised it as one of the top five features.

 

[beg_ne]

I would take a guess that Apple's main gripe is Pre showing up as an iPod when its plugged in. Obviously they would hate something like that.

Palm really should get their act together and make their own sync software instead of riding on Apple's coat tails.

Palm can easily get the information to sync with their own software just by parsing through the 'Itunes Library.xml' file.

It's cake to read in the file and get the location on disc and all the textual metadata. Including playlist info.

 

[bobertoq]

Oh fer f@#$% sake. How many times are people going to repeat this nonsense?

* Having a monopoly isn't illegal.

* Abusing one's monopoly power to create an anti-competitive environment in a given market is illegal.

* The market in question here is digital downloads.

* The market in question here IS NOT iTunes.

* Apple can keep anyone they want out of iTunes which isn't anti-competitive because in doing so...

* Apple has not used their power in the music industry to conspire in keeping competitors out of the digital download market.

* 70% of the digital download market is a far cry from a monopoly.

If you respond to any of the above points, please cite some sources. I have no interest in opinions.

But Apple is expressing anti-competitive and monopolistic behavior. They are potentially forcing users to use the iPhone instead of the Palm Pre. However, the way I see it, is they are forcing Palm Pre users to not use iTunes. This is a very anti-competitive move and there is no question about it. Honestly Apple, you're starting to lose my respect.

 

[oyebto]

Resources used to lock each other could be better spent on research.

 

[Rot'nApple]

Get ready for iTunes 8.2.2!

 

[deconstruct60]

Oh it may sycnc right now. Until Apple rightfully breaks it with another iTunes update (which has already happened), and until Apple leaves them completely out in the cold with a major iTunes update.

In part Apple's abilities are constrained. Unless Apple is going to require all iPod owners to reflash their firmware and come up with a substantially new protocol.

Extremely likely the reason this is so easy for Palm to do is that there really isn't all that much to the sync protocol. Now Apple is free to come up with the new complicated rube goldberg protocol that is much harder to crack ....but that is ridiculous allocation of development money.

Apple needs to maintain backwards compatibility with older iPods. That is going to put a constraint on what they can do. As long as the Pre provides/responds with the correct set of handshakes, it will work.

Maybe Apple could go nuclear and kill off all Classic iPods or whatever vector Palm is using, but that is even more retarded.


It would be oh so kindergarten behavior if the next major version of iTunes shows up and it isn't ready to deal with the post DRM, multivendor repository, multidevice world a bit better does it does now.

 

[boer]

What ppl in this thread fail to understand is that this is not a selling point of the Pre...

Yes it is. What you fail to understand is that one cannot release a smartphone in 2009 without a media management software and expect it to be succesful. Palm is too cheap to develop their media management software and instead opted to steal from Apple. How much effort do you think Palm saved? Worth of millions of dollars!

Nobody wants to organize their media on a smartphone manually like on a USB stick and Palm very well knows that.

 

[NAG]

But Apple is expressing anti-competitive and monopolistic behavior. They are potentially forcing users to use the iPhone instead of the Palm Pre. However, the way I see it, is they are forcing Palm Pre users to not use iTunes. This is a very anti-competitive move and there is no question about it. Honestly Apple, you're starting to lose my respect.

The only media locked to iTunes and the iPod/iPhone are tv or movies you download from the iTunes Store. Music has always been a complete joke to liberate from the DRM and it is no longer sold with DRM.

If anything it forces you to use another media player. Too bad Palm didn't work with Real or some other media player to compete with iTunes (or even work out a deal with Apple to support syncing with the Pre). The fact is that Palm is trying to piggy back off Apple's R&D when Apple has made it clear that they no longer support other devices (they did way back when due to iTune's roots in Soundjam). That isn't fighting for the consumer, that is being cheap.

 

[deconstruct60]

But Apple is expressing anti-competitive and monopolistic behavior. They are potentially forcing users to use the iPhone instead of the Palm Pre. However, the way I see it, is they are forcing Palm Pre users to not use iTunes. This is a very anti-competitive move and there is no question about it. Honestly Apple, you're starting to lose my respect.

They aren't forcing iTunes users to buy a iPhone. They are just making it more of a pain in the ass to use a Pre if primarily have all your music in iTunes.

Apple has the right to make it a pain in the ass. Neither has a legal upper hand here. Apple can't legally block Pre some interoperating with iTunes. Pre can't claim that this completely freeze them out of the market.

Frankly there are no saints on either side.

If your iTunes repository is 99% full of DRM free MP3 and video then Apple is being a pain. When a mature/acceptable solution for Pre shows up hopefully there is an easy migration path out of iTunes.
( if you are syncing with another ipod and the pre .... may eventually need multiple programs that largely do the same thing when it comes to file maintenance. )


If your iTunes repository is 99% full of legacy DRM iTunes then you have bigger problems with a Pre than sync.


The more critical factor in tying and anticompetitve would be Apple having 70% of the mobile MP3 playing device market. That is a high enough percentage so that if block interoperability they would be in trouble. In not in the US then in other countries where interoperability blocking is more clearly constrained. (e.g., pretty sure some EU countries have this, so the blow back would be on Apple worldwide. )

Apple would likely try to create a "new" MP3 player marketplace by pointing at every phone, PDA , and other mobile MP3 capable device on the planet. All of a sudden their marketing material about how they have the dominate share of the MP3 player market would evaporate and they would plain ole Apple with barely a 48% share.

 

[rjohnstone]

Palm is too cheap to develop their media management software and instead opted to steal from Apple.

I suspect that if Palm was actually doing anything "illegal" as many here like to proclaim, at minimum they would be staring down the short end of a C&D right now.
Based on the lack of legal action from Apple against Palm, I get the impression they have no real legal recourse. So Apple is left with playing cat and mouse with them through updates.

 

[BTW]

I believe Apple described the ability of the Pre to present itself as an iPod to be a bug so they fixed it.

What if Apple gave Palm a legitimate way to sync with iTunes. What do they have to lose? Not everyone loves the iPhone or AT&T so at least getting people to use iTunes and buy music therein would be a win.

 

[inkswamp]

But Apple is expressing anti-competitive and monopolistic behavior. They are potentially forcing users to use the iPhone instead of the Palm Pre.

Music purchased through iTunes is in a non-proprietary format. Any music player that supports AAC can play it. How is Apple forcing anyone to use an iPhone instead of a Pre just by stopping them from synching with iTunes? That doesn't stop them from moving the music over manually. I suspect Apple's concern is less with protecting the music are more with not being forced into the hassle of supporting a competitor's product.

However, the way I see it, is they are forcing Palm Pre users to not use iTunes. This is a very anti-competitive move and there is no question about it. Honestly Apple, you're starting to lose my respect.

So, let me see if I have your argument right. Apple, in turning away their own potential customers from iTunes, is being anti-competitive. You realize how ridiculous that sounds, I hope.

 

[Detektiv-Pinky]

<snip>

Apple has made it clear that they no longer support other devices (they did way back when due to iTune's roots in Soundjam). That isn't fighting for the consumer, that is being cheap.

So you like beeing locked in by Apple?

 

[slapppy]

For the people applauding this hack job move, you guys have no idea or respect for peoples hard work or respect for peoples property.

Let's say your GF or Wife just got the best boob job on the planet. So realistic, it's almost a miracle.

Now let's take your thinking and apply it with this situation.

I'm pretty sure you AINT gonna be liking it when every Tom, Dick and Harry want a piece of that magical spheres to get a hold on once in awhile. I bet you'll be guarding that pretty close to your "ahem" chest.

 

[pika2000]

But Apple is expressing anti-competitive and monopolistic behavior. They are potentially forcing users to use the iPhone instead of the Palm Pre. However, the way I see it, is they are forcing Palm Pre users to not use iTunes. This is a very anti-competitive move and there is no question about it. Honestly Apple, you're starting to lose my respect.

How is that anti-competitive? Can I use a a non-branded blade on a Gillette razor? No. Can I use any random blood glucose test strip on the One Touch Ultra blood glucose machine? No. Can I play Halo 3 on my PS3? No. The iPhone is Apple's product. If Apple wants to lock it to iTunes, it's their choice, just like MS locking Zune to Windows+Zune software. Does Apple prevent Palm Pre from using other software like Songbird? No. Does Apple prevent users from drag-n-dropping music to their Pre? No. So how is Apple "anti-competitive"?

The irony is, if everybody hates Apple so much, then why does everybody want to use iTunes that badly?

 

[pika2000]

What if Apple gave Palm a legitimate way to sync with iTunes. What do they have to lose? Not everyone loves the iPhone or AT&T so at least getting people to use iTunes and buy music therein would be a win.

Nokia has had software that allow Nokia phones to sync contents with iTunes, and Apple is cool with that. So why can't Palm do a better job rather than depending on a cheap workaround?