Just agreeing with you that unsatisfied customers with any product are always MUCH more vocal than the happy ones. When people have something to bitch about, they'll let it fall on any open ears.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Palm Releases WebOS 1.1, Restores iTunes Media Syncing
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Just agreeing with you that unsatisfied customers with any product are always MUCH more vocal than the happy ones. When people have something to bitch about, they'll let it fall on any open ears.
If this iTunes syncing is out of their control and intermittent at best (only works until the next iTunes update), then why are they passing this off as a feature?
They're lying to their customers. That's what's going on here. This is a "feature" that isn't even under Palm's control and could break at any minute.
Right, because it's not like there's any Apple dimension to this story.
So any useless news with ''Apple dimension'' to it should be reported on te front page?
Apple the new Microsoft?
Why?
Because they want to allow you to access your music stored in iTunes?
I think Apple is the one who is sad and pathetic...Weren't we always bashing MS because they were so monopolistic and now it seems like Apple has become that. Apple just seems like they want to crush everyone and they even steal people's ideas(like we always complained about MS).
Even my public library has complained that Apple is so restrictive with iTunes.
I just don't like the path Apple has taken recently. My love is crumbling. They seem to have become what they hate.
Why?
Because they want to allow you to access your music stored in iTunes?
I think Apple is the one who is sad and pathetic...Weren't we always bashing MS because they were so monopolistic and now it seems like Apple has become that. Apple just seems like they want to crush everyone and they even steal people's ideas(like we always complained about MS).
Even my public library has complained that Apple is so restrictive with iTunes.
I just don't like the path Apple has taken recently. My love is crumbling. They seem to have become what they hate.
Oh it may sycnc right now. Until Apple rightfully breaks it with another iTunes update (which has already happened), and until Apple leaves them completely out in the cold with a major iTunes update.
Palm is fully aware of these issues. Their customers, however, are not. They see a "feature", they rightfully assume it's going to work consistently.
See where this is going?
Well the problem is that they cannot substantiate that claim. Apple treats this as an exploit. Thats a problem because this advertisement implies support that does not exist. They are dishonestly misleading customers that what they are doing is official when it is at best, a cat and mouse tactic that is what we expect from Psystar (who are notably failing in their tactics). Palms arrogance is simply not going to last, they will loose and they know it.
And it doesn't fully work. There are several components to iTunes that will not ever work on the Pre unless they try and circumvent Fairplay (that won't happen).
Its about implied support - something that Palm cannot honestly make
Apple should just make an arrangement with Palm where they pay a license fee to legally sync or something.
Better Palm syncing with iTunes than Windows Media, it'll help expand the standard.
Better Palm syncing with iTunes than Windows Media, it'll help expand the standard.
So Apple is not allowed to protect their own IP which they have spent money and time developing? Palm is the sad and pathetic company who can't develop their own software and have to mooch off the work of others.
But you CAN!!!! See SyncServices and the iTunes library XML file that tells you exactly where all the files that iTunes stores on your hard drive, files that are readily available.
Of course we should point out that calling the files "yours" is a teeny bit misleading, the word "yours" implies ownership and control. You may have paid for them, but you license it. Small nitpick and nothing more.
Did a yahoo search of the palm website and having trouble finding this document where Palm says that the Pre is an iPod killer.
Are you referring to the not so serious video with Jon Rubinstein and the marketing guy where is the sketch is the marketing guy says outragous stuff and him slapping his head saying no?
In other words is this documented somewhere .... or just more MR lore?
Certainly Palm has said things about being competitive with the iPhone but killer ? And other folks have tried to label it as a "iPhone killer". Palm is dooooooooooooooooooomed unless the Pre kills the iPhone is another track of blog/posts/etc.
I like your style. Which business school did you graduate from? Booth? Harvard? Kellogg? Wharton? Did you miss the part where you DON'T offer a profit driving feature to your competitor who has made it more than clear that they are your opposition and in some cases downright insulting your practices? In case you aren't getting it, Apple sells phones, too.
What is wrong with you people!!!! ITUNES IS APPLE'S NOT PALMS SOFTWARE. APPLE PROVIDES A METHOD FOR THIRD PARTY DEVICES TO SYNC. PALM IS TOOOOO LAZY TO WRITE THEIR OWN APP, SO THEY HACK APPLES.
That my dear Watson is the problem. UUGh
I am jailbroken but haven't updated to itunes 8.2.1. Everything is working fine with my iphones so why risk something happening to my sync/jailbreak if itunes is doing everything I need it to do.
same with the Palm, if I wan't having any issues with 8.2 and 8.3 came out why would I risk updating until it was well known that synching to 8.3 worked 100%.
If you have 8.3 and a person gets a Pre well, they are SOL.
I just don't understand the agrument, itunes is a free download, free. Why can't the consumer use it to sync their phones to ther music.
I understand that part but does it also keep the play list in tack and copy those over.
if not then your argument fails under that point because it is a HUGE pain in the ass to remake play list on multiple programs. It is one thing keeping the library. it is another keeping the play list and both need to be able to be sync though another peice of software before I buy that argument.
Why? Why should Apple accommodate their competitors, especially when they open themselves up to requests from everybody else - its a mess waiting. Apple doesn't have to do anything. They pretty much have already said "NO"
No, better that Palm do what RIM is doing - creating their own software that is built to work with their devices and do it using Apple provided frameworks - SyncServices.
iTunes is not sufficient to work with devices that are not controlled by Apple.
I am not a developer, but I believe the iTunes XML file does contain playlists. Its up to the program to read the program properly of course.
it wasn't Microsoft putting IE in the package that was the issue. it was them trying to make a condition of the license that no other web browser be put on as well that was the issue. the courts voted against them, saying that a web browser is not an integral part of an OS and they were using their strong market share with the OS market to push their web browser unfairly.
to those saying Apple is not a strong power, yes they are. in the digital media player market (but not in the personal computer market). so in fact, if pushed, the courts might rule against Apple on the issue. in the end, I doubt it is seen as such a huge issue that it is worth the risk.
although i still think it is tacky for Palm to be playing such a game.
Just because it doesn't cost the user anything doesn't mean that it cannot be restricted. iTunes is not distributed to be a media player for all devices. Its not marketed in that way.
Apple develops iTunes for their own devices, not other people. Apple has the right to make that decision. Just like Microsoft chooses that the Zune can only work with the Zune software and it's services. Thats just the way it is.
so Palm agrees not to say itunes anymore and stop supporting the sync with itunes campaign. Hackers galore will be providing the hack and will surely keep up with apple; redsn0w, yellowsn0w,purplerain come to mind.
Apple gets itunes on the pre box, advertisement for their product, additional sales of music and video downloads and so on.
Apple sells phones on a different network. Some will always be on sprint for their features. I know its hard to believe, but tere are some people out there that do not like the iphone and then there are some that will die to the end supporting it. Why not try to capture some of that market that you don't have a piece of.
The hack is out there, the hackers will keep up with it even as apple tries to keep up with it. Support it, embrace it, and somehow figure out a way to offer apps to support the Palm. Wait another opportunity to capitalize on.
Except thats not a relevant market in this case. Remember there is nothing wrong with creating a popular device and linking it with quality software - especially when it exists in a market with many competitors and Apple doesn't restrict competition using technology that they control.
Since the iPod competes with multiple players on the market, there is no real way that Apple can prevent competition in any reasonable way. The only unique component would be the iTunes store however Apple makes little money on that and arguably the media companies control that aspect more than anything.
Again, there is nothing illegal about controlling software that you develop to the exclusion of others. Apple does not prohibit the usage of other media players nor do they restrict access to the itunes XML or sync services.
Of course this is all academic. Apple's only competition with Palm is with the Pre - in the cell phone market. Apple hardly has any control of this market.
Any kind of antitrust claim is bound for failure since Apple has repeatedly shown that they do not have market power and are not a monopoly.
Look, no one hates the underground movement. That's already been established. Jailbreaking, unlocking, OSX86 is fine. Why? Because no one is trying to sell it and market it as their own.
Stupid n00bs trying to Pystar their way into fame and fortune by installing OSX86 or ripping off the EFI, idiots down the street having an "unlocking" business by keeping a computer that runs QuickPwn on hand, idiot phone companies trying to hack their way into an established eco system and then marketing it as a feature, this is where the stupidity comes in.
If you are a customer who loves iTunes and you are looking at the iPhone vs. the Pre, the iPhone wins hands down. This doesn't give palm the right to infringe on this technology because customers want it. If the customer loves the marble like surface of the Pre (well thats how I describe it anyway) that does not give Apple the right to hire palms design engineers and stuff the iPhone in to an exact replica of that enclosure.
I think the bottom line here consists of 2 things :
Firstly, (someone complained about the anthropomorphizing of Apple, so I'll refer directly to the developers), the developers created a product that they put time and resources into, not unlike a composer creating a piece of music. If someone comes along and samples that music without the composer's consent, the composer has a right to be angry and to take any action required to stop the spreading of that unauthorized use. It may seem to be a bit of a stretch of an analogy, but it's not as far off as it seems.
Second, the time the team spends trying to play this cat-and-mouse game with Palm, the less time they have for new features and bug fixes. This means all the consumers lose, not just Apple consumers, but also people who own a Pre, because Palm is spending time trying to fix iTunes syncing. I think the Pre owners lose out on this deal, because there is still a lot of basic development that needs to be done with the Pre as it is a device still in its infancy.
I hate to see this back-and-forth and time wasting, when both companies could spend their time better serving their customers.
Firstly, (someone complained about the anthropomorphizing of Apple, so I'll refer directly to the developers), the developers created a product that they put time and resources into, not unlike a composer creating a piece of music. If someone comes along and samples that music without the composer's consent, the composer has a right to be angry and to take any action required to stop the spreading of that unauthorized use. It may seem to be a bit of a stretch of an analogy, but it's not as far off as it seems.
Second, the time the team spends trying to play this cat-and-mouse game with Palm, the less time they have for new features and bug fixes. This means all the consumers lose, not just Apple consumers, but also people who own a Pre, because Palm is spending time trying to fix iTunes syncing. I think the Pre owners lose out on this deal, because there is still a lot of basic development that needs to be done with the Pre as it is a device still in its infancy.
I hate to see this back-and-forth and time wasting, when both companies could spend their time better serving their customers.
All I said is that it was well known from the beginning that Palm was going to make the Pre interface directly w/iTunes. It wasn't a knee-jerk reaction to sales figures as you seemed to imply.
Lethal
digital media players and digital media software is very much the relevant market
but in fact, apple does. if you have an ipod you are tied to using itunes to sync it in any automatic way and if you use itunes, the only device is will sync natively is an ipod (to include the iphone). all that 3rd party support disappeared after Apple released the ipod. yes there are programs that can read your library file and sync but you can't just plug in that not-ipod and have it pop up with just itunes anymore
the courts right now are loathe to excuse any kind of remotely anti-trust behavior. if this issue was tested, Apple could lose. so it is unlikely they will push the issue in court. not so long as they can update their way out of it.