Palm Releases WebOS 1.1, Restores iTunes Media Syncing

[sesnir]

Well prepared to be blown away MS DOES allo0w others players to sync with it. the Zune uses Microsoft Windows media player on windows. As far as Media player care it will let just about any device sync up with it.

Hell apple doing this and locking out everyone else is just giving Microsoft very good ammo to throw at Apple in ads.

For example "Unlike Apple Microsoft is not racist when it comes other MP3. players. Microsoft is open to letting any one sync up with Windows media player ............"

Two points...

1) The zune has it's own software. See here: http://www.zune.net/en-us/software/download/default.htm

2) I don't think "racist" means what you think it means.

 

[markredf150]

Let the war begin.
Serious, this won't be very pretty. Soon, there will be lawyers involved.
Yupeeeee.

Apple, you will win.

I agree with you...the ironic thing is this could kill Palm, their comeback may be over before it starts. If it gets to being a legal issue and Apple wins, Palm will have no choice but to nix the iTunes syncing and it could drive customers away. It's kinda sad that Palm can't create their own type of media manager software to compete with iTunes. If both companies are going to be offering software updates every week, that means both companies have to pay their software development teams more, because they will spend more time playing leapfrog against each other and getting deeper and deeper into a potential legal battle.

 

[pdjudd]

Yadayadayada. This file only enables developers to write their own software to synch with the iTunes library. If I am the typical ignorant end user why would I even know to use the software from the manufacturer? I see my songs in iTunes, I want to be able to press a few buttons and make it move to my own device.

Presumably the developer would market their product and educate you as the consumer before you bought the product and made such assumptions. It's nobody's fault but yours if you did not do research. ANd what you want can be done by a program that would come with your device - it would read APpple's library from iTunes and all would be well. All that would be lacking is integration into itunes which is pointless given that the only thing that you could exploit would be non-drmed content anyway.

A typical Apple argument against Windows is that it is bloated and full of 3rd party apps. This attitude from Apple would mean OSX would be exactly the same, if it were not for the fact that most manufacturers couldn't be bothered to target a 4-5% marketshare.

Apple is not interested in dominating the market though. And I have never seen the argument that you talk about. Now I have heard about the argument about crapware loaded from the factory, which is why Apple lets you add on programs when you need it. To think that is never going to happen is naive.

No wonder Apple can make billions if they treat their customers like this and their customers DEFEND them for it.

I defend Apple here because they are within their legally granted rights. They are not immune from criticism.

 

[soup4you2]

I cheer for Palm here, apple needs to get their act together and allow for 3rd parties to easily integrate into iTunes. restricting it to just apple devices is just pure BS.

 

[awmawm]

I cheer for Palm here, apple needs to get their act together and allow for 3rd parties to easily integrate into iTunes. restricting it to just apple devices is just pure BS.

Why? It is their software meant to sync with Apple devices. Palm can take the iTunes library file and use it for their own syncing application. That's much better than impersonating the Pre as an iPod without paying licensing fees.

 

[DougB541]

Why? It is their software meant to sync with Apple devices. Palm can take the iTunes library file and use it for their own syncing application. That's much better than impersonating the Pre as an iPod without paying licensing fees.

Palm's argument is the Open USB standard.

Palm has released webOS 1.1, which, along with offering more robust EAS support for business users, re-enables Palm media sync,” said company spokesperson Lynn Fox. “Palm believes that openness and interoperability offer better experiences for users by allowing them the freedom to use the content they own without interference across devices and services, so on behalf of consumers, we have notified the USB Implementers Forum [USB-IF] of what we believe is improper use of the Vendor ID number by another member.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[pdjudd]

Palm's argument is the Open USB standard..

It doesn't matter what Palm argument it. iTunes is not under their control and development. They can make whatever argument they want it still doesn't mean they can get what they want. If you want open interoperability, I don't know why you would want to choose an application that is only going to supply a limited set of your needs and is closed source and proprietary to boot.

 

[mudenza]

Why? It is their software meant to sync with Apple devices. Palm can take the iTunes library file and use it for their own syncing application. That's much better than impersonating the Pre as an iPod without paying licensing fees.

Why hasn't Apple taken legal action yet? I think if it were the case I wouldn't have released the update to block out the Pre. To avoid legal battles you say? Would they win it? And indeed law is very open to interpretation.

 

[shakenmartini]

I cheer for Palm here, apple needs to get their act together and allow for 3rd parties to easily integrate into iTunes. restricting it to just apple devices is just pure BS.

so how do you explain the fact that Sybian (Nokia) and Blackberry devices use supported sync services to sync with iTunes?

What about all those other programs out there that can also sync with iTunes?

Seems like you argument is bunk.

 

[bobertoq]

The only media locked to iTunes and the iPod/iPhone are tv or movies you download from the iTunes Store. Music has always been a complete joke to liberate from the DRM and it is no longer sold with DRM.

If anything it forces you to use another media player. Too bad Palm didn't work with Real or some other media player to compete with iTunes (or even work out a deal with Apple to support syncing with the Pre). The fact is that Palm is trying to piggy back off Apple's R&D when Apple has made it clear that they no longer support other devices (they did way back when due to iTune's roots in Soundjam). That isn't fighting for the consumer, that is being cheap.

But plenty of users are too uneducated to just switch to a different media player, and when I left iTunes, even after they removed DRM from all their songs, I still had songs with DRM. Apple demanded I pay 40 cents (or some ridiculous amount) to remove the DRM. I just deleted the songs with DRM and then downloaded them from somewhere else.

 

[dragossh]

Palm are being so pathetic. They can't be bothered to make their own media software, so they're being all smug by announcing to the whole world, "oh yes, um, by the way, you can sync with APPLE'S iTunes again now, because we're so cool, ahaha…"

You mean just like Apple announces “oh yes, um, by the way, you can run WINDOWS on your Mac natively, because we’re so cool!”

Again, there's no such thing as an illegal 'monopoly' on a product. iTunes is a feature of the iPod. Stop being silly about the 'monopoly' crap and get your brilliant Pre folks to write their own client the way other real development houses do.

iTunes came out one year before iPod. It’s a media player that added support for iPod.

Well prepared to be blown away MS DOES allo0w others players to sync with it. the Zune uses Microsoft Windows media player on windows. As far as Media player care it will let just about any device sync up with it.

Don’t try telling them that Windows Media Player exists. They will keep saying “Zune Desktop is Zune-only.”

 

[bobertoq]

Does Apple prevent you from drag-n-dropping music to the Pre? No. Is drag-n-dropping so difficult now?

For many users, yes. I know many people with complicated phones that don't even know what a folder or file is. How do you expect they find their music files then find where to drag them to?

 

[donny77]

Not sure why everyone is defending Apple here

Seriously though, if you bought music and own the rights to it, you should be allowed to put it on whatever f'in device you want...an iphone, ipod, mp3 player, cd, dvd, or a Palm Pre...

I prefer to put mine on an iphone, but I have no problem with people putting it on a Pre.

Seriously, let's not be complete fan boys here...

It's really not fan boyism. Why deamonize Apple over this. This isn't Kodak "easy" share that hides your standard jpgs in a catalogue file. iTunes is not holding your files hostage. The ACC file is right there on your hard drive, browse to it and do what you want with it.

This is about Drivers. iTunes contains an iPod/iPhone DRIVER. Palm is using this device driver with hardware it was not intended to work with. It works, great, but what side effects are there? We don't know, Palm doesn't know, Apple doesn't know. Now who's liable when an "invalid" driver call bricks a Pre?

Palm need to write their own syncing software and point it at the iTunes library.

 

[pdjudd]

But plenty of users are too uneducated to just switch to a different media player, and when I left iTunes, even after they removed DRM from all their songs, I still had songs with DRM. Apple demanded I pay 40 cents (or some ridiculous amount) to remove the DRM. I just deleted the songs with DRM and then downloaded them from somewhere else.

1) User noneducational is not the fault of Apple - Don't forget that Palm themselves advertise this feature. They are the ones that are confusing people here

2) DRM is an issue that is between Apple and the studios. Sadly, it looks like their agreements require an upgrade fee - I wouldn't think that Apple an do much about an optional process simply because users got into DRM knowingly. It was you (g) who chose to buy the tracks in the first place. If you (g) are not able to educate yourself about the problems laid out to you in the store's license agreement, that you are to blame here. Your only out would be if the original contracts themselves were illegally agreed to - ain't gonna happen. Expecially when music can be burned to CD and re-imported.

Why hasn't Apple taken legal action yet? I think if it were the case I wouldn't have released the update to block out the Pre. To avoid legal battles you say? Would they win it? And indeed law is very open to interpretation.

Because they might want a stronger case against palm? contrary to what you may think, it takes a long time to sue somebody, especially when it is another businesses model. And what could they sue for? This isn't a legal matter yet. Just because Palm hasn't broken any laws thiough doesn;t put them in the right.

 

[bobertoq]

Again, there's no such thing as an illegal 'monopoly' on a product. iTunes is a feature of the iPod. Stop being silly about the 'monopoly' crap and get your brilliant Pre folks to write their own client the way other real development houses do.

It's not about Apple having a monopoly, it's about Apple being anti-competitive. And it's the other way around; iTunes is older than the iPod. And if it took Apple eight years to get iTunes the way it is now, what would make you think Pre could make a replacement so quickly?
---

DRM is an issue that is between Apple and the studios. Sadly, it looks like their agreements require an upgrade fee - I wouldn't think that Apple an do much about an optional process simply because users got into DRM knowingly. It was you (g) who chose to buy the tracks in the first place. If you (g) are not able to educate yourself about the problems laid out to you in the store's license agreement, that you are to blame here. Your only out would be if the original contracts themselves were illegally agreed to - ain't gonna happen. Expecially when music can be burned to CD and re-imported.

Well it ain't (g) my problem anymore. It isn't (g) my fault Apple put DRM (g) on their music and charged a fee to remove it and it isn't me fault I stopped buying music because of it. (g)

 

[pdjudd]

It's not about Apple having a monopoly, it's about Apple being anti-competitive.

Of course, one of the biggest requirements of anti-trust is a monopoly (defined by the courts of course who have not made such a declaration - monopolies are also not illegal).

And it's the other way around; iTunes is older than the iPod. And if it took Apple eight years to get iTunes the way it is now, what would make you think Pre could make a replacement so quickly?

The age of iTunes is irrelevant. Several companies already have syncing software for the Pre. The age of iTunes would only be relevant in a discussion about setting up their own sync system - implying that Palm would have to re-invent the wheel. Other companies don't have to. SyncServices are already available! No re-inventing of the wheel needed!

It may be hard, but thats how life is. Nobody ever promised that being in the phone business or the software business was easy.

 

[cloudblood84]

Palm is NOT going to shoot themselves in the foot. Palm must have a good case otherwise they wouldn't be this persistent.

They aren't trying to make a statement. Who makes a statement with billions at risk? Come on people lets think realistically here.

No amount of "sympathy" is worth billions and losing a 17 year old company.

 

[mudenza]

Of course I should point out that carrier locking and the resulting unlocking is perfectly legal. I don;t care what end users do to their own devices. I do care about companies trying to run a business around that. Individuals and businesses are very different things.

I'm very well certain that Apple are highly concerned of the amount of jailbroken phones circulating, allowing the easy installation of pirated apps and other trickery related to tethering and such.

In essence, the fact that the Pre can sync with iTunes might pose a risk to the iPhone market share, since iTunes is widely used. But there are many apps like Songbird that allow iPods to sync with its library, so isn't it eating into the iTunes Store market? I'm personally a big fan of open source, and we know that Apple sits at the opposite end of the definition of open source in all of its products. I love to have interoperability between my devices, and not everything that Apple offers is of my liking. I'd love to buy an iPhone for example, but then I work on Ubuntu and I wouldn't be able to sync anything. I'd need iTunes.

 

[cloudblood84]

and if apple had SUCH a good case, they would have taken palm to court almost 2 months ago when the pre was released

 

[pdjudd]

Well it ain't (g) my problem anymore. It isn't (g) my fault Apple put DRM (g) on their music and charged a fee to remove it and it isn't me fault I stopped buying music because of it. (g)

1) The fee to remove DRM is in essence re-buying the song. Sorry thats how the music business requires it to be done.
2) Upgrading your library was and still is an optional process.
3) DRM was on there because the studios required it. Apple has long called for the death or such DRM but the studios would not budge - it was there terms. Of course these terms were made clear you everyone before they could buy their first track. It stinks, but then again, we chose to buy from iTunes. Nobody forced us.
4) I was not targeting you personally, jut responding to you. I was speaking about consumers in general.

 

[pdjudd]

Palm is NOT going to shoot themselves in the foot. Palm must have a good case otherwise they wouldn't be this persistent.

You can;t assume anything these days. Companies someines set up shop (like psystar) knowing darned well that they are going to be sued and will probably loose. Just because you can set up shop doesn't mean much if you are not willing to do the reseach to defend yourself.

and if apple had SUCH a good case, they would have taken palm to court almost 2 months ago when the pre was released

The palm Pre went on sale a month and a half ago. Legal cases can take a qhile to set up. Of course that assumes that any case would have legal merit. Apple may not choose to sue Palm. Nobody really is seriously suggesting or arguing that is going to happen. I don;t think that it will. What I think will happen is that this silly affair will go on for a few months until Palm gives up either by introducing their own software or going out of businesses.

 

[pika2000]

This is a mac site and you'll have to excuse people for wanting to continue to use a single program that they're already using (iTunes) to manage all their media.

User laziness != Apple being anti-competitive, contrary to what others are saying here. Palm could simply put up a quick FAQ page on how to import iTunes library to songbird, easy. But no, that would not generate news/publicity.

 

[johnnyjibbs]

Resolves an issue preventing media sync from working with latest version of iTunes (8.2.1).

Cunning.

 

[cloudblood84]

You can;t assume anything these days. Companies someines set up shop (like psystar) knowing darned well that they are going to be sued and will probably loose. Just because you can set up shop doesn't mean much if you are not willing to do the reseach to defend yourself.


psystar and palm are on completely different levels. palm hardly just SET UP shop.

yes psystar which released products in 2008 doesnt have much to lose.

again a company that has been around this long is not going to WILLINGLY throw money away. they are capitalists/business peope for a reason. they know what they're doing.

 

[pika2000]

I should not have to install a new player for every device I own.

Then that's YOUR problem, not Apple's. In fact, you don't have to install any software to transfer music to the Pre. Simply drag-n-drop.