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Palm trying to 1-up Apple's [potential] iPhone Release?

I love the "knowledge" in these Pre vs iPhone threads... Personally, I think the closer to June 8th that Palm announces an official date and specs for Pre the more risk they take in actually getting and building media attention.

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I must ask, why do people assume they have the knowledge to speak definitively about iPhone OS 3.0's final features (or Pre's for that matter).

If my memory serves me, between the iPhone 2.0 beta and the WWDC iPhone 2.0 announcement Apple added...

GPS integration.
Contact search.
iWork document support.
And MobileMe integration.

Even if I'm mistaken on all other fronts, MobileMe alone affected several iPhone applications and processes. It indicates that Apple clearly had internal testing of significantly different iPhone OS builds going on during the 2.0 beta phase.

At WWDC, Apple also announced Push Notification Server which was targeted for release a couple of months after the iPhone 3G release. While delayed, Apple had much of the implementation completed in a separate 2.0 build which was temporarily (July 31) in some developers hands.

I'm 100% sure that the current 3.0 beta software is not what Apple employees are testing internally - just like 1.0 and the final 2.0 didn't have external beta testers before the final announcements.

If Pre had been released immediately after iPhone 2.0 or if it was widely believed that there would be no new iPhone in 2009, I'd say you could make valid comparisons. But the fact is, we won't really know a final feature set for 3.0 for about a month (WWDC). Nor do we know Pre's final feature set, battery life, price, release date, etc. If Apple announced everything in March, Palm would have had plenty of time to make adjustments.

Some of the rumored iPhone 3.0 features could potentially make the Pre look dated at release. Besides, you really need to compare what's available on the to-be-released final hardware because that's what determines if the Pre gets purchased over the iPhone.
 
kas23 said:
Except the iPhone though. How innovative. May Steve Jobs is just trailblazing and trying to show us we really don't need to have more than one app opened at once. Just like he was trying to make us learn we don't really want MMS.
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The iphone isn't the only phone without 3rd party multitasking, you fail.
 
QCassidy352 said:
Gotta love how multitasking is now being held up as the holy grail of smart phones ever since the 3.0 announcement removed every other advantage the Pre seemed to have over the iphone.

Multitasking is one somewhat interesting aspect to a smart phone os. I have a bb that can switch between apps and it makes very little difference. Only one app can be on the screen at a time anyway, so what you're really talking about is how quickly you can switch between apps (plus a few apps that need to run in the background like IM programs or music players). Since I have no problem with how long it takes to close one app and launch another on my iphone, I really don't see this as a big deal.
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Exactly, people always need to find something to hold against the iphone. Now as more and more of those items are being added, their list is getting narrower. When 3rd party multitasking is added, they will find something else to complain about.
 
Eso said:
The card system for apps has been a major feature in focus before 3.0 was even announced. The Pre's notification system is another major advantage over the iPhone.
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You have a pretty funny idea of what constitutes a "major feature."

While tying an email, for example, you can momentarily distract your attention to advance to the next song then bring your train of thought right back to typing. There are dozens of situations where the same principle applies, such as browsing a web page and responding to a text message.
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You're missing the point. Since a mobile phone can only display one app at a time, how much your work flow is interrupted doesn't depend on whether the phone can "multitask," it depends on how quickly you can switch between functions. If closing one app and opening another is fast enough, who cares that they weren't both running at the same time? By that same token, if they are both running but the resources are so used up that switching between open apps is slow, who cares that they were both running at the same time?[/quote]

For example, a pedometer app must be active to track your run.
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And what exactly do you need running during a run besides the ipod and phone functions, both of which can already operate side by side with other apps?

don't forget the ever-popular streaming media apps like simplify media, Pandora, last.fm, and the much anticipated Sling Media player.
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that's the one reason I'd care about multitasking, and I already mentioned it in my earlier post.
 
Besides the few apps like Pandora where audio is involved, what's so great about background apps? Isn't flicking through your open apps on the Pre almost the same thing as going to the home screen to open a different app on the iPhone? It saves like 3 seconds at most. Yeah, it would be nice to have, but not enough to make it a game changer. This whole multi-tasking argument is getting annoying.
 
It wouldn't be smart for Palm to release it before the iPhone for obvious reasons but they have been getting a lot of buzz, much more than any Samsung phone ever could. Palm would still get outshined by iPhone and most people, unless they're already with Sprint, will not switch over to a worse network just for the Pre.
 
QCassidy352 said:
You're missing the point. Since a mobile phone can only display one app at a time, how much your work flow is interrupted doesn't depend on whether the phone can "multitask," it depends on how quickly you can switch between functions.
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How much our flow is interrupted depends on the device keeping context. That can either be done via multitasking, or having an OS that keeps a context stack and restarts the previous app when you go back... and that app needs to reload its last situation.

For example, and this bugs me to no end on the iPhone, I will use a search app that gives back some web links... click on one, get taken to Safari... then want to flip back and click on the next link. But there's no easy way back to where I was. The context is lost.

Instead of just clicking a back button (or closing the current app and going back to the previous open app automatically), I have to find and relaunch the previous app, and if I'm lucky, it remembers where I was. Otherwise I have to start over again from scratch.

The lack of context is a huge lack with the iPhone OS. Those who never had smartphones before, probably don't know what they're missing. It's like going back to the days of single tasking DOS.
 
I think that Palm MAY be easier for developers since it is mainly javascript with the Mojo frameworks. The interesting thing to see is, how will they end up delivering the apps to the users (store? adhoc, user installed like a desktop application, etc). I also am curious about the developer program. I just looked and they are scrutinizing who gets in the program at this stage. You can apply, but you may not hear back from them.

Is there a revenue model for developers? One of the great reasons the iPhone has such a developer following is the AppStore. Developers can submit an app and after it gets approved, they really do not have to worry about how they get the $$$ and such. If it is a user installed model, then the devels have to worry about licensing, transactions, update methods, etc.

Might be more of a headache.

I guess only time will tell huh?
 
While Clevin certainly knows quite a bit about technical mumbo-jumbo, he clearly knows absolutely nothing about marketing or the mass media.
There will be incredibly limited mass media coverage of the Pre as compared to the iPhone.
If you surveyed the general population of the United States right now on recognition of the brand "iPhone" and "Palm Pre," you'd be lucky if you found 1 person who recognized "Palm Pre" for every 100 people who recognized "iPhone."

For some reason, people don't realize that the market is not made up solely of the 2,000 people who post on your Internet technology message board. Of the people in this category who already prefer the Pre, it's not likely they were going to purchase an iPhone in the first place. However, of the 99.9% of the population who doesn't surf Internet tech blogs and forums, very few are going to be swayed by any coverage or announcement of the Pre.
 
Goona said:
The iphone isn't the only phone without 3rd party multitasking, you fail.
Click to expand...

Huh? What other smartphones? What's your point?

edit: I already see other people were confused by your strange response too. I don't see why we would have been talking about anything other than smartphones? No other phones, besides smartphones, can multitask. Oh well.
 
Goona said:
Exactly, people always need to find something to hold against the iphone. Now as more and more of those items are being added, their list is getting narrower. When 3rd party multitasking is added, they will find something else to complain about.
Click to expand...

Listen, I just want my friggin Todo badges to show up without having to actively open up the App. And listening to the Pandora App while I write email or surf the net would be cool too. This is not asking for much.
 
JBaker122586 said:
While Clevin certainly knows quite a bit about technical mumbo-jumbo, he clearly knows absolutely nothing about marketing or the mass media.
There will be incredibly limited mass media coverage of the Pre as compared to the iPhone.
If you surveyed the general population of the United States right now on recognition of the brand "iPhone" and "Palm Pre," you'd be lucky if you found 1 person who recognized "Palm Pre" for every 100 people who recognized "iPhone."

For some reason, people don't realize that the market is not made up solely of the 2,000 people who post on your Internet technology message board. Of the people in this category who already prefer the Pre, it's not likely they were going to purchase an iPhone in the first place. However, of the 99.9% of the population who doesn't surf Internet tech blogs and forums, very few are going to be swayed by any coverage or announcement of the Pre.
Click to expand...

And even if the Pre does do some things better than the iPhone, every article will conclude that the iPhone is the better buy, simply because it has become such a consumer phenomenon. The Pre is probably going to be defined by the fact that it's not an iPhone, especially if they try to release their product in the same window as the 3.0 OS.
 
The Pre will always be a wanna be iPhone, will fail miserably and the key board blows as with all Palm phones!
 
maflynn said:
Smart move on their part.

The question is, will people be willing to jump over to sprint which is hemorrhaging customers at an alarming rate, and what price point will they sell these puppies. Just making it, will not be enough they need to sell them lower then the iPhone.
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Sprint is lousy. True, I've heard one person who has it and loves it, but she's in Indianapolis and rarely calls outside the city environs. Consumer Reports (granted, they're no the last word, but still) has consistently put them pretty low.

The General. I agree - I think many will try out the Pre initially, but it won't last. I predict that if they left the iPhone in the first place, less will return to it, so the iPhone-*skip*-Pre customers will be split between returning to the iPhone or going with BlackBerry.

Chaszmyr said:
I disagree. The Pre has been getting a lot of attention from the media while there hasn't been much new to report on the iPhone front, but if they try to release a day before the iPhone they'll get exactly one day of media attention before everyone starts talking about the new iPhone.
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I agree w your disagreement. They'll have a hard enough time getting the Pre to adopt already. If they think they can fight Apple in marketing, they'll fail.
 
I've been an iPhone user since day 1, it's really a great phone. Before I had the iPhone I had a Sprint WM device, crappy phone but awesome network. Customer service left something to be desired, but I rarely had dropped calls and a strong signal everywhere I go. With AT&T, I get dropped calls daily and when I'm inside my work place more often than not I don't get signal.

I got to play with a Pre this past weekend, and it sold me. The day it releases I'll sell my iPhone and buy a Pre. However that's just me, I can see some iPhone users who will not like the Pre and stick with the iPhone. For one the applications on the iPhone are more numerous, and WebOS will have to grow before developers really begin noticing it. Two some people prefer no keyboard now, and that's fine. I enjoy having a physical keyboard, sending texts on the Pre I forgot how much I like having a keyboard.

I don't understand why so many of you on here want the phone to fail. I didn't get the impression it was an iPhone wannabe, WebOS just didn't give me the feel it stole anything from the iPhone. Competition is great for Apple and iPhone fanboys, who knows what features from 3.0 would be missing if the Pre wasn't announced in January.

I believe Apple will continue to succeed with the iPhone, and Palm will have a lot of success with WebOS.
 
I agree..good post. Competition is always good for consumers. One day the iphone fanboyz will realize this... :rolleyes:

thetexan said:
I don't understand why so many of you on here want the phone to fail. I didn't get the impression it was an iPhone wannabe, WebOS just didn't give me the feel it stole anything from the iPhone. Competition is great for Apple and iPhone fanboys, who knows what features from 3.0 would be missing if the Pre wasn't announced in January.
Click to expand...
 
thetexan said:
I don't understand why so many of you on here want the phone to fail.
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It's because most of us (including myself) are Apple fanboy lunatics that want Apple to always be on top of the market. Additonally I think a little competition will only make the entire market better, so I welcome the Pre.
 
thetexan said:
I don't understand why so many of you on here want the phone to fail.
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Speaking only for myself here - I don't want the Pre to fail. It just doesn't make sense for me. Reasons:

1) the iphone has one-click syncing with all of my mac desktop apps (safari, itunes, iphoto, mail, etc.). I'm not going back to managing the data on my phone on a drag-and-drop or app-by-app basis. I don't have the time, patience, or interest.

2) Palm would need something that at least comes close to the app store in terms of quality, variety, and ease of use. Probably the majority of my iphone use is through 3rd party apps, so however good another phone is, unless there's a good selection of apps, it's not going to be as functional as an iphone for me.

3) I'd really like to get back to just one device, and while my employer does not yet support the iphone (bb only), they will do so at some point in the not-too-distant future. They're not, however, going to support the Pre for a long time, if ever.

4) I'm not going back to a physical keyboard. It's ridiculous how much slower it is to type on. (I have a bb curve, so I can compare on a daily basis.)

5) I'm at capacity on my 8 GB iphone, and the Pre tops out at 8 GB (I think).

6) I'm not going to Sprint. Period.

Now, those are just my preferences. I know that other people have different priorities. But what draws me in to these Pre/iPhone debates is that the Pre-loving crowd tends to act like the Pre is some clearly superior device, and only a "fanboy" could prefer an iphone. That's both insulting and wrong. Both devices have some advantages as well as some debatable differences (AT&T vs. Sprint, physical vs. virtual keyboard).
 
I believe superiority is an opinion based off personal needs. A friend of mine with the iPhone is a heavy Apple user, and the Pre would put a kink in his technology setup so I doubt he would find the Pre superior. I have another friend who is glued to his email due to his job in sales, also he keeps two batteries on him at all times due to how much he uses that thing. I know he finds his Blackberry Bold to be the superior phone over the iPhone he tried. Where I'm at Sprint is the superior network, maybe somebody lives in a rural area not serviced well by Sprint where AT&T is the superior network.

It's all about needs and wants. The Pre is simply another phone on the market, it offers certain features and abilities and the beautiful thing is people can accept it or reject it. I for one will accept it, as it meets my needs and wants in a way superior to the iPhone in my opinion.
 
thetexan said:
I don't understand why so many of you on here want the phone to fail.
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I don't think it's that we want it to fail. We expect it to fail. Why? Because outside of the tech community very few people know what the Palm Pre is. But everyone knows what the iPhone is. Even most people know what the Blackberry Storm and Samsung Instinct are, yet those phones didn't do as well as the iPhone. Palm and Sprint are doing little to get their phone out there and into the eyes of the public and while they are doing a little, it's doing nothing to showcase the phone's features and what sets it apart from the iPhone and the Storm and the G1. And with the media and public-loved iPhone update coming soon, the Pre is going to be ignored. Sprint and Palm have a great product, but that's not what makes things sell. Marketing and timing is what sells a product. And there is almost no marketing for the Pre and the timing is horrible. If they launched this in the winter, it'd sell well. But launching it right when the biggest phone in the country is about to be announced is just suicide.

And that is why we expect it to fail. It has nothing to do with the product, but how Palm and Sprint are treating it and expecting it to be huge while they do absolutely nothing. Many of us want the Pre to succeed, seeing as they're probably responsible for scaring Apple into introducing the features it put into iPhone OS 3.0. But that's not even a sign that Palm will do well when it comes to selling the Pre, it only scared Apple because it's interface and feature set were the biggest rival to the iPhone yet. They were scared about competition in quality, not sales.

So, yeah, some of us do want the Pre to fail. But a lot of (including me) want the Pre to do well but with what Sprint and Palm are doing right now, we don't expect it.
 
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