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Originally posted by Mudbug
I assume you mean themes like Kalidescope offered for the pre-X OS's, but for now those looking to customize what they can can get candy bar from Icon Factory This may be only icons, but hey, it's a start
I have Candybar, thank you. i was talking about actually changing things up big, like duality.

but i don't want it to be 3rd party. i want them to include colors and things, and a themability would be nice... there are like 2 major desktop managers out there that aren't natively themable: Mac OS X and Windows. what a shame.
 
Originally posted by foniks2020
Well, as far as 10.2 goes, I think hardware accelerated windowing, pdf/opengl/video realtime compositing on said hardware and improved performance across the board, was worth paying for.

Now if all they do is add in a 'theming' api I will not be paying jack, off to the 1999 'hotline' equivalent of today to find an update I can live with...

if on the other hand they bring impressive new features as they have been doing so far for OS X I will gladly pay.

Here's wishing for OpenGL 2!

few would pay $129 for a theme API. rest assured there will be more than that. in fact, i am pretty worried that such an API won't be included at all.

apple has done more than that in 10.2.x changes, lol. I suspect they will be totally redefining some apps that go with it, like iChat, and they may not release safari final till Panther comes out. i would expect something big. Apples been doing a lot of ne stuff so far this year, i don't see why they would let us down now.
 
Originally posted by elo
I can offer the following as absolute certainties:

1. This will be a fairly early Preview Release, not the shipping product. Its purpose is to allow developers to get excited about the new OS and to start their own work. It will be feature-incomplete and not optimized for speed, as the target group requires neither.

2. The completed product will not ship before the one-year anniversary of Jaguar. (Nevertheless, this is not a "pre-announcement" as major releases must always be given first to developers.)

3. The shipping version will have significant new features, akin to the difference between 10.2 and 10.1. It will be a worthy upgrade and priced accordingly (in the neighborhood of $99-$129, though this has not been determined).

4. People will be happy about the direction of the Power Mac (even if they still don't have as many details as they want). Nothing dramatically new will be shipping by that point, however, or necessarily even announced as such.

5. Panther is for everyone.

6. It would be unwise to think of WWDC as the new MacWorld. It is for developers, period. If you evaluate software and hardware discussions by the same criteria you would at a convention for the general public, you would be significantly missing the point.

elo

All of those make a lot of sense, and they're being stated as fact. Do you have inside info, or are you just making some educated guesses? (Or option 3, is your NDA too restrictive for you to even answer this question :))
 
I can't believe nobody else has noticed this yet, so I guess that leaves it to me to lay on the really big kahuna: The last time Apple rescheduled an event at the last minute, the G4 iMac was released.

Also: the WWDC schedule lists the keynote as "to be announced."

Huh? Huh?
 
Originally posted by IJ Reilly
I can't believe nobody else has noticed this yet, so I guess that leaves it to me to lay on the really big kahuna: The last time Apple rescheduled an event at the last minute, the G4 iMac was released.

So if this is anything like the G4 iMac release I guess that means the first G5 revision will be overpriced and quickly made obsolite? I hope not.
 
Type-o? Creative writing? ??

Hey...

I was quickly going through the events and noticed this:

"Max OS X State of the Union"
To Be Announced

a) It's TBA. as in, We Won't Tell You A Thing Til You're Watching It Live

b) What the heck is "Max"? Type-o? Probably. Creative writing? Doubt it, it's pretty weak. New Product?

??
:confused:
 
Honestly, the people who are shelling out 1300 bucks to go to this thing are probably select or premier members of ADC. These guys get pretty much everything in the way of operating systems, including final releases. Don't worry yourselves over it. Also, for those who think that paying for an upgrade is a problem, did you actually pay for the jaguar update or download it off limewire like so many people? If you didn't buy the jag update and don't use it, you probably don't need it that badly. If you payed for the jaguar update, good for you. You are the people keeping the mac platform going. I think a big reason why apple has stayed afloat is because of the large numbers of people who are willing to pay for the software. If we take that away, there might not be much of an apple left.
 
Just like to start out by agreeing whole heartedly with rubikcube - If you're a tried and true apple user, buy the updates rather than pirate them OR YOU HATE FREEDOM!!! you don't hate freedom... do you..?

Additionally, IJ Reilly pointed out earlier that the last time they rescheduled an event at the last minute, something big happened. While I am hoping for some hot new thing (any EDUCATED speculation?), remember that this is a developers conference, not a macworld expo.

personal rubiks cube best: 1 minute 13 sec ;)
 
Originally posted by xenotek
If you're a tried and true apple user, buy the updates rather than pirate them OR YOU HATE FREEDOM!!! you don't hate freedom... do you..?

Don´t let this thread grow into an uncontrolled flame war about pirates. Make a new one for that in the community section. Or even better: Let it be completely.
 
Originally posted by Stike
I don´t see right now, HOW the date has changed. Has the event been delayed? It could also be a software-only thing, since a complete version of Panther to be demoed would be nice, and would be embarrassing to show an alpha version or whatever.

Okay, such a move is not done light-hearted. It will have its reasons. Could it be the new iPod? This device thingy with the myterious enclosures mentioned on Page2 ?

Hmmm!!

That postcard IS ugly, though.

The Apple press release states that the date has been changed so that instead of developers SEEING a demo of panther, they can actually take one home with them! Sound's like a good excuse.
 
Paying for updates is fine, as long as you dont have to do it a few months after you buy a new Mac. I only say this because I thought we would be getting the G5 this year, if that is the case, by the time Panther is ready to ship, the G5 should be out by then.
 
Originally posted by gotohamish
The Apple press release states that the date has been changed so that instead of developers SEEING a demo of panther, they can actually take one home with them! Sound's like a good excuse.

As stated above, such a delay must have very important reasons. So, IF this is not an excuse, but the true reason, WHY is it so important for Apple to give the developers a first seed?

Why could it be crucial for Apple to let the devs have a copy as early as possible?

My speculation: If Panther really contains a 64bit part, it would be very important to have developers on board as early as possible, in order to obtain a fast optimization of important apps to 64bit.
 
Originally posted by IJ Reilly
I can't believe nobody else has noticed this yet, so I guess that leaves it to me to lay on the really big kahuna: The last time Apple rescheduled an event at the last minute, the G4 iMac was released.

Um, what the heck are you talking about? The G4 iMac was released at MWSF '02, and MWSF took place at the same time it normally takes place: the second week of January. There was no rescheduling at the last minute.

Plus, the rescheduling of WWDC is HARDLY last-minute. The original date for WWDC was the END OF MAY. We're only in the end of MARCH. That's 2 months, and now WWDC is 3 months away.


Anyhoo, I believe that the major reason for this change is to position WWDC as the summer keynote event. Yes, WWDC is aimed chiefly at developers, but Apple only wants to do one show per year for consumers, so it makes sense to have a major venue through which to announce new products (probably mainly software upgrades like Panther and such), even if it's not at a consumer event. They'll probably reserve "Apple Events" for major hardware upgrades.


Also, remember last year how Apple changed its Mac OS X website when Jaguar was previewed at WWDC to tout Panther? This is going to be the same thing: Apple is going to announce Panther, say it's going to be shipping sometime in the next few months (I doubt that Panther is going to be released anytime later than December of this year, and I would bet on late summer), and they're going to update their Mac OS X website so that consumers can get all hyped up about the next major upgrade.


As for those people crying about having to pay for another upgrade: um, you have to pay for software development. If you like and want the features, then buy it! If you don't and can live without them, then you can keep on using Jaguar or Puma or Cheetah or whatever. You're not obligated to upgrade. I don't think $129 for a major upgrade like Jaguar was unreasonable, and charging again for Panther is not unreasonable either, as long as it has enough new features. Apple did the same with the Classic Mac OS releases, although it offered a small discount if you had bought the previous release and proved it with a coupon. I personally think that Apple should reinstate this policy, but I'm not going to get up in arms if they don't.

Besides, if you DO get a new Mac, Apple usually offers an up-to-date program that allows you to get the newest major version of Mac OS X if it was released 1-2 months after you bought your Mac. Apple did that with Jaguar and Puma, and I see no reason why they won't continue that with Panther. So there's no real reason to put off buying a new Mac, either.
 
regarding my last post...

i·ro·ny __noun

a. The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.
b. An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning.
c. A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect. See Synonyms at wit

:rolleyes:

Anyways, lets try to stay on track. Thank you simX for your explanation. Newbie question: I bought Jaguar and inside the box came some cute little software update coupons. These probably cant be used to get my hands on a copy of Panther when it comes out... can they..?
 
Originally posted by xenotek
regarding my last post...

i·ro·ny __noun
:rolleyes:

Anyways, lets try to stay on track. Thank you simX for your explanation. Newbie question: I bought Jaguar and inside the box came some cute little software update coupons. These probably cant be used to get my hands on a copy of Panther when it comes out... can they..?

Well, I know what irony is, thanks anyway. I just don´t want others to jump that quote and start an argument.

simX was right mostly, but regarding the "buy a Mac and upgrade then" program: It was neglected quite a lot by Apple when Jaguar came out. The upgrade time was only two weeks or something like that, many were upset.

The 10.2 update coupons are really there to get a discount if you buy 10.3 (or any other following paid upgrade). It is necessary that Apple supports it, though. I have those, too! :D
I just hope, I can use them on 10.3.
 
My speculation: If Panther really contains a 64bit part, it would be very important to have developers on board as early as possible, in order to obtain a fast optimization of important apps to 64bit.

And what would these developers test their 64bit apps on?
 
doesn´t anyone READ on this forum?

1. Apple will be releasing a preview of Panther, not the final.

2. The rescheduling of the conference could just well be because Apple won't be ready with the release until the later date, as stated. Reading anything more into it would just be an excercise in in fantasy.

3. I forget what Apple's usual development cycle is, but if they're barely releasing a preview, it won't be ready for another 3-6 months. So we might have to wait until MWSF 2004!

4. The final release of Panther should coincide with the release of 970. Again, depending on Apple's development schedule, it could be Jan. 2004 before Apple ships anything with a 970 in it. (But this is purely a speculation on my part, of course.)
 
Meta data and journaling are the only things I can think of that would be worth a paid update. People with G4s won't care about a 64 bit OS because they can't use it. The 64 bit OS has to come on a new 64 bit processor box.

I am not so sure this will be a paid update because I can't think of that many compelling new features. No imagination this morning.:)
 
Originally posted by simX
Um, what the heck are you talking about? The G4 iMac was released at MWSF '02, and MWSF took place at the same time it normally takes place: the second week of January. There was no rescheduling at the last minute.

Nope, wrong. The keynote was rescheduled from Tuesday to Monday just a few weeks before the event, which required no small amount of scrambling especially on the part of the media. After the keynote the press was escorted to the show floor for a special preview. Steve made it worth our while by being there in the flesh. That's what the heck I am talking about.

Rescheduling an event like WWDC so close in, and moving it from San Jose to San Francisco is a pretty strong signal that Apple will be using this event to announce what they'd otherwise roll out at MW-NY. We already know about Panther. I'm guessing that ain't all we'll see.
 
Catfish Man,

Sorry, I cannot further characterize my comments.

They do make sense though, don't they? ;-)

elo
 
Originally posted by Stike
Well, I know what irony is, thanks anyway. I just don´t want others to jump that quote and start an argument.

simX was right mostly, but regarding the "buy a Mac and upgrade then" program: It was neglected quite a lot by Apple when Jaguar came out. The upgrade time was only two weeks or something like that, many were upset.

The 10.2 update coupons are really there to get a discount if you buy 10.3 (or any other following paid upgrade). It is necessary that Apple supports it, though. I have those, too! :D
I just hope, I can use them on 10.3.

Actually it was that very day. I bought my first Mac (G4 Tower) in July of last year. The only reason I got the 10.2 upgrade is because they delayed my shipment until the 17th (2-3 days). But anyone who bought before the announcement day of July 17th was SOL. I just got lucky (sort of since I had to pay 19.95 + s&h to get Jaguar and the upgrade disk is ***** worthless since you cannot do a clean install from it, 10.1 has to be on the hard drive).
 
Originally posted by chewbaccapits
I know its not confirmed yet, but does everyone have to pay every year for an upgrade? What the heck! Thats weak.

How else would Apple get paid to do the point (10.2.x) releases?

Besides, 10.3 will be a $20 processing charge only.
 
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