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What's wrong did I upset all of you little scalpers?
What is your definition of a scalper? As I understand the term, it is someone who buys something, typically a ticket to a sporting event, in high demand at retail and then sells it for a much higher price.

You do realize that many of us gave our lines away for free and sold our iPhones at retail or below retail don't you? Some people here even PAID people to take the lines!

And what exactly did we do in your mind that was wrongful? And who was hurt by what we did?

I was trying to save some of you from getting scammed by E-Wireless.
Still not understanding how what they are doing is a scam.

How would like to spend $500 to rent a line and have it gone tomorrow and that's what is going to happen very soon with these crooks.
Verizon certainly has the right to do that under their CA. But if someone enters into a contract to rent a line for $500/mo from another person and then Verizon cuts that line off, the "renter" can demand a prorated portion of their money back from the "landlord". If the landlord won't pay, the renter can take them to small claims court to get their money back.

It is no different from any other contractual agreement that people enter into all of the time - if one party breaches a contract, the other party can demand compensation for the breach. And if the party in breach won't comply, the other party has to sue them to get their money back.

I don't need to rent or sell lines since I have a real job . Thanks for playing and have a nice day
I am pretty sure none of us needed to do it either - it was simply a fun and profitable activity that benefited EVERYONE involved, especially Verizon and Apple.
 
Still not understanding how what they are doing is a scam.

I don't know anything about the specific company being discussed, but I can tell you a potential way that people get scammed in a situation like is being discussed.

The whole reason that I needed the UDP I took over was because a well-known Verizon reseller of data-only hotspot plans, Millenicom, recently pulled the rug out from under all of it's customers with only a month of warning. All of the rumors indicate that it was Verizon who shut them down because of shady reselling practices. As is customary in these arrangements, all plans were month-to-month with hardware purchased up-front. So a lot of people were stuck having just paid the substantial up-front cost recently only to get a couple months of service and then be dumped. Also, some people are finding their equipment unusable on Verizon's network directly because it is flagged or marked.

This same company did the same thing a year or so ago, but with Sprint plans. They canceled all of the plans for people buying resold Sprint service because they got into problems with Sprint and were shut down. The devices (purchased up-front) were all held in limbo (indefinitely, I believe) because of payment and legal disputes.

Another similar provider (Blue Mountain Internet) recently was shut down by Sprint service with only a single day of warning to customers. Again, I believe all hardware purchased up-front from them was rendered unusable.

It sounds like the carriers are cracking down on people finding creative ways to resell services without being resellers. That seems to be what happened in each of the above situations. When the arrangement requires large up-front investments, the customer really gets messed over when the operation is shut down soon after signing up.
 
I am sure no one would pay 500$ to rent a line. I think going rate is 120$ I would rent one of my extra lines for $80 for data. There are other options for unlimited data tmobile will update all its edge to lte and in some place they will be able to deploy 5x5 lte. I am hoping that verizon will adjust its data based on what tmobile is doing that forces att to respond to it by doubling the data.
 
I am sure no one would pay 500$ to rent a line. I think going rate is 120$ I would rent one of my extra lines for $80 for data. There are other options for unlimited data tmobile will update all its edge to lte and in some place they will be able to deploy 5x5 lte. I am hoping that verizon will adjust its data based on what tmobile is doing that forces att to respond to it by doubling the data.

They've spotted Verizon PCS band being used in New York. i believe Milan was the first to report on it. It'll be a long time coming before T-Mobile does make a big splash. But they're getting there.
 
I am sure no one would pay 500$ to rent a line. I think going rate is 120$ I would rent one of my extra lines for $80 for data. There are other options for unlimited data tmobile will update all its edge to lte and in some place they will be able to deploy 5x5 lte. I am hoping that verizon will adjust its data based on what tmobile is doing that forces att to respond to it by doubling the data.

If you need the service in a rural area like I do, TMobile isn't an option. I don't have any TMobile coverage at my home at all and only have Edge in the nearest city (population ~50k).

The traditional options - DSL, cable, etc. - aren't even offered in my area.
 
If you need the service in a rural area like I do, TMobile isn't an option. I don't have any TMobile coverage at my home at all and only have Edge in the nearest city (population ~50k).

The traditional options - DSL, cable, etc. - aren't even offered in my area.

Well i agree for some verizon is the only option, rv owners truck drivers.
There are options for you they many not be cost effective such as satelite internet or local wireless internet.
 
I don't know anything about the specific company being discussed, but I can tell you a potential way that people get scammed in a situation like is being discussed.

The whole reason that I needed the UDP I took over was because a well-known Verizon reseller of data-only hotspot plans, Millenicom, recently pulled the rug out from under all of it's customers with only a month of warning.
I read they went out of business. Going out of business is NOT a scam. It amazes me that people don't understand the difference b/t a scam and a breach of contract or in this case, a failed business.

Businesses fail all of the time. That is not a scam. It is caveat emptor wrt picking a business when you are a consumer, but it does not mean you were scammed if a business fails.

All of the rumors indicate that it was Verizon who shut them down because of shady reselling practices.
What do you mean shady? Verizon can shut down ANYONE who resells their service. Read the CA. By the terms of the CA, no one is allowed to resell Verizon's service.

As is customary in these arrangements, all plans were month-to-month with hardware purchased up-front. So a lot of people were stuck having just paid the substantial up-front cost recently only to get a couple months of service and then be dumped.
That's NOT a scam. That is a business failure.

I once paid a deposit for a custom wrought iron gate and the company went out of business before they could make it. I filed a claim with the bankruptcy trustee and got nothing. But I wasn't scammed. The business just failed.

Also, some people are finding their equipment unusable on Verizon's network directly because it is flagged or marked.
That is a shady practice on Verizon's part quite frankly. They shouldn't be able to do that and if I researched it I bet I could come up with some case law to support that a bona fide purchaser for value has a cause of action against Verizon for doing that. And please don't tell me just b/c Verizon does something that it is legal. They have been fined for their shady practices before.

This same company did the same thing a year or so ago, but with Sprint plans. They canceled all of the plans for people buying resold Sprint service because they got into problems with Sprint and were shut down.
But that is Sprint shutting them down, not a scam. The only argument that I can think of to say they are doing something less than ethical is if they don't disclose to the customers that the carriers do not allow their service to be resold and so the customer must be aware that they could be shut down at any time. And even then, that doesn't rise to the level of a scam, but it is a failure to disclose a known risk of the transaction and is a less than ethical business practice IMO.

The devices (purchased up-front) were all held in limbo (indefinitely, I believe) because of payment and legal disputes.
By Sprint. Your beef is with Sprint, not e-wireless. If anyone is doing anything wrong by harming bona fide purchasers for value it is the carriers.

Another similar provider (Blue Mountain Internet) recently was shut down by Sprint service with only a single day of warning to customers. Again, I believe all hardware purchased up-front from them was rendered unusable.
So people need to complain to Sprint b/c it is Sprint who is doing something wrong there.

It sounds like the carriers are cracking down on people finding creative ways to resell services without being resellers.
And I would be willing to bet you almost everyone who rents a data only device is well aware of the risk that this can happen. If not, well caveat emptor - it is your responsibility as a consumer to research these things before you put your money down.

That seems to be what happened in each of the above situations. When the arrangement requires large up-front investments, the customer really gets messed over when the operation is shut down soon after signing up.
Still not a scam. It is a bad choice on the consumer's part to get involved with MHS renting to begin with. They have another option and that is to pay for their data directly from the carriers at tiered data rates. But they want unlimited data and they choose to take the risk of buying from a reseller. When the risk that they took materializes, they are not scammed though.

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The traditional options - DSL, cable, etc. - aren't even offered in my area.
But you have the option of opening a line directly through Verizon and paying at tiered data rates. Or a satellite internet service.

Those options just cost more than you would like to pay. So instead you take the risk of going with a reseller.

Also, there is no god given right to internet service in rural areas. And you also have the option of moving.

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Well i agree for some verizon is the only option, rv owners truck drivers.
And they have the option of paying for data from Verizon at Verizon's tiered data rates.

People drove trucks and RVs for many decades w/o onboard internet access and no one died from lack of internet access, lol! In fact more people probably die now with all of the electronic gadgets onboard that distract drivers.
 
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What is your definition of a scalper? As I understand the term, it is someone who buys something, typically a ticket to a sporting event, in high demand at retail and then sells it for a much higher price.

You do realize that many of us gave our lines away for free and sold our iPhones at retail or below retail don't you? Some people here even PAID people to take the lines!

And what exactly did we do in your mind that was wrongful? And who was hurt by what we did?

Still not understanding how what they are doing is a scam.

Verizon certainly has the right to do that under their CA. But if someone enters into a contract to rent a line for $500/mo from another person and then Verizon cuts that line off, the "renter" can demand a prorated portion of their money back from the "landlord". If the landlord won't pay, the renter can take them to small claims court to get their money back.
My guess is that Verizon was probably less concerned by the number of UDPs created per se (probably in the tens of thousands, tops) as they were with the subsidies they were handing out. As you mentioned, most people were giving away lines, but were buying iPhones for $199 care of a $450 subsidy from Verizon and then re-selling them on Swappa for retail or near-retail prices. This was possible only because Verizon UDP lines are easy to give away. It isn't rational to AOL in a brand new TDP since you can just as easily sign a new contract and get a subsidized phone and potentially $150 directly from Verizon if you port a number. So by cutting off AOLs and/or the UDPs they essentially shut down this market.
 
My guess is that Verizon was probably less concerned by the number of UDPs created per se (probably in the tens of thousands, tops) as they were with the subsidies they were handing out. As you mentioned, most people were giving away lines, but were buying iPhones for $199 care of a $450 subsidy from Verizon and then re-selling them on Swappa for retail or near-retail prices.
You do realize that Verizon will recoup the subsidies from the people who assumed liability on the lines don't you? That is how Verizon recoups the subsidies from EVERYONE. And that is why Verizon gives you a $15-$25/mo discount if you use Edge - b/c they don't have to recoup the subsidy from you.

Verizon will either get 2 years worth of service payments from the person who AOLed the line to recoup the subsidy or the etf if the person cancels the line b/f 2 years are up. The only way Verizon loses out is if the person who AOLed the line cancels the line before 2 years are up and doesn't pay the etf and Verizon has to send them to collections. But that is why Verizon does a credit check on someone b/f they let them assume liability on the line - to reduce their risk of a defaulted account.

And the subsidy is not $450, it is $350 that is why the etf is $350. Verizon doesn't pay Apple $650 for the device.
 
I read they went out of business. Going out of business is NOT a scam. It amazes me that people don't understand the difference b/t a scam and a breach of contract or in this case, a failed business.

They're still in business - just finding a new business. Verizon stopped them from reselling accounts that they weren't allowed to resell (business subaccounts, etc.). Some people even tracked down their devices to a charter school out of PA.

I don't really have any opinion one way or the other about the legitimacy or illegitimacy of whatever business you all were originally discussing (ewireless?). I was just sharing the cases with these other providers/resellers in case people here weren't familiar with it. I certainly don't care enough about it to get into some kind of big argument or debate.
 
They're still in business - just finding a new business.
Ok well then that aspect of their business was shut down. For all intents and purposes that is the same thing - still not a scam.

Verizon stopped them from reselling accounts that they weren't allowed to resell (business subaccounts, etc.).
Idk what you mean - they were selling lines rather than renting them? But if so, people here sell lines and I don't think anyone is getting scammed by buying a UDP line.

Some people even tracked down their devices to a charter school out of PA.
What does this mean? Did they buy the devices from a charter school? That's not illegal.

I don't really have any opinion one way or the other about the legitimacy or illegitimacy of whatever business you all were originally discussing (ewireless?). I was just sharing the cases with these other providers/resellers in case people here weren't familiar with it. I certainly don't care enough about it to get into some kind of big argument or debate.
Well you were the one who entered the discussion to tell me about how people were potentially scammed. But nothing discussed as of yet is a scam. Breach of a contract with Verizon? Sure but Verizon then executed their remedies under the contract and terminated the lines.
 
Some people think everything is a scam when it's too good to be true.

I have people who think selling insurance to people are scams....
 
You do realize that Verizon will recoup the subsidies from the people who assumed liability on the lines don't you? That is how Verizon recoups the subsidies from EVERYONE. And that is why Verizon gives you a $15-$25/mo discount if you use Edge - b/c they don't have to recoup the subsidy from you.

Verizon will either get 2 years worth of service payments from the person who AOLed the line to recoup the subsidy or the etf if the person cancels the line b/f 2 years are up. The only way Verizon loses out is if the person who AOLed the line cancels the line before 2 years are up and doesn't pay the etf and Verizon has to send them to collections. But that is why Verizon does a credit check on someone b/f they let them assume liability on the line - to reduce their risk of a defaulted account.

And the subsidy is not $450, it is $350 that is why the etf is $350. Verizon doesn't pay Apple $650 for the device.

I believe it is $450 or pretty darn close. The one month of service at $70 plus the $35 activation fee make up for that. I think the issue is that so many of the AOLs were going to existing subscribers who were then letting TDP lines lapse. Either that, or people who otherwise would have paid full price to keep UDPs were finding a new way to get a subsidy.
 
I think the issue is that so many of the AOLs were going to existing subscribers who were then letting TDP lines lapse.
How do you know that? Only 1 of my 12 lines went to replace a TDP line. Every other person I gave a line to was a new Verizon customer.

Either that, or people who otherwise would have paid full price to keep UDPs were finding a new way to get a subsidy.
Again, how do you know that? I would have never bought 12 iPhones full price, lol!

IMO if anything bummed out Verizon it was the $45/mo UDP MHS but all they had to do to stop that was not allow the $15/mo 30 min Loyalty plan to be put on a line with a data plan.
 
IMO if anything bummed out Verizon it was the $45/mo UDP MHS but all they had to do to stop that was not allow the $15/mo 30 min Loyalty plan to be put on a line with a data plan.

Or the smart select few who use this plan with Google Voice and have unlimited everything for that price :)
 
Or the smart select few who use this plan with Google Voice and have unlimited everything for that price :)
Where I live, that isn't a viable option b/c the call quality varies with the 4G LTE signal. I have tried it with hangouts dialer and in the interior of my house it is a no go in terms of call quality as well as walking through my neighborhood I get dropped calls.
 
Where I live, that isn't a viable option b/c the call quality varies with the 4G LTE signal. I have tried it with hangouts dialer and in the interior of my house it is a no go in terms of call quality as well as walking through my neighborhood I get dropped calls.
Ah no wifi at home?

Luckily I have great LTE service and I haven't had a droped call yet and you can always use the 30 minute allowance for emergencies.
 
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