Part II - UDP For Life

[JulesJam]

Comprehension problem....

What if it runs on 3G?

The block C spectrum license restrictions apply to 4G LTE devices regardless of whether or not they currently are using the 4G LTE network or the 3G network.

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I just want to be able to sell the phone and another person be able to activate it on whatever carrier and data plan they want, and it is not linked to me. I do not want to be on the hook for the $400 cost difference.

Then the safest thing to do is open the phone, activate the PHONE on the new line and then remove the SIM card and pop it into the iPad. THEN sell the phone as already having been activated.

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If I am going to use the line myself and pay the bill every month for two years, does Verizon really care who has the phone and what they are doing with it?

Once you activate the phone on the new line, you are free to do with it whatever you want to including selling it. If you fail to fulfil your 2 year contract on the line they will charge you the etf.

Looks like I should activate the phone with the SIM in it and then pull it out and put it in the iPad and we should be fine.

Yes, for sure that will work.

When I sell the phone, they can bring it to a carrier and they can activate it with no problems, it sounds like?

Correct - Verizon phones will work on ATT and TMobile. If they have a problem with the phone though, they will have to deal with Apple as ATT and TMobile will not provide support for a Verizon phone.

What are the odds of Verizon figuring out it is in the iPad

When you log into your account you will see that an iPad is on the line. So will any rep who helps you with your account.

and does it really matter?

No, Verizon allows tablets on UDP lines. Now you may encounter an idiot rep who says otherwise, but if so, hang up on them. And NEVER, NEVER, NEVER go into a Verizon corporate store for any reason is you have a UDP line. That last part has nothing to do with an iPad, it is merely good advice in general.

Has it happened to anyone and they cancelled the UDP?

The only time I have heard of that happening the person had a MiFi on the line. They got their UDP back by filing an IPR.

 

[sox8104]

So you AOL'ed the line w/o a PDI on it? Did you ever activate a phone on that line b/f AOLing it?

Is the buyer trying to activate the new phone with the original SIM card in it?

Clearly the safest route is to open the phones and activate them, then AOL the line with a PDI on it and then sell the phone.

What happens if he tries to activate the phone with a new SIM card?

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While this is true for tablets, reps have been known to kick someone off of UDP if they see a MiFi device on a UDP phone line. The person was able to get it back by filing an IPR.

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Works fine for me - 16GB IP6 and iP6+ everywhere near me but no 64GB anywhere to be found.

also no 64s here either. plus or regular. I feel like the 2am refresh is the better of the two. I have a feeling the space gray plus 64 is the most rare. I might see a quick gold or silver but never the gray.

local apple store told me they still have 50 people line up every morning at 6am for when they open at 10. I bet 90% of those iphones go directly over seas haha

 

[sboychuck]

Alright, just popped the SIM out of my 6 Plus and put it into the iPad Air 2. Turned off WiFi and it worked fine registered with Verizon LTE service. I then went to My Verizon and it shows I have an iPad Air 2 on my phone line with a picture of an iPad. Took the SIM out of the iPad and back into the 6 Plus and all is well. So, that works.

So, at the end of the day, I should add a line using the APPLE website. I get a subsidized phone with an UDP on a two-year contract. When the contract expires, it changes over to month-to-month, like I have right now. When I get the phone, I should activate it and wait for it to show up in My Verizon. I take the SIM out and put it into the iPad. I then sell the phone (6 Plus SG 128GB) for at least what I paid for it to get my money back. I tell the new buyer they need to supply their own SIM and to not use Verizon? Seems like they may have a problem with Verizon as the phone is already listed with Verizon and may complicate things.

Does that sound about right all?

Thanks again...

 

[JulesJam]

I'm not sure if Verizon blocks tethering on iPads,

Verizon does not block tethering on iPads.

 

[KPOM]

Correct - Verizon phones will work on ATT and TMobile. If they have a problem with the phone though, they will have to deal with Apple as ATT and TMobile will not provide support for a Verizon phone.

This may not necessarily be the case if the phone is purchased directly through Apple. It was last year, but I noticed that this year, when I moved my AT&T SIM from my VZW 5s to the T-Mobile iPhone 6, I got a text message telling me to get a new SIM from an AT&T retail store. I did so, and the rep was able to add the phone into their system so that it shows up on my account as a supported phone. She was even able to offer me insurance, etc. (which I declined).

Things may be different this year on the back end with Apple. Remember, the GSM models "work" on VZW this year, though they aren't whitelisted and show up as unknown. So perhaps AT&T and T-Mobile have "whitelisted" all the non-Sprint iPhones for support purposes.

 

[JulesJam]

That's what I meant (i.e. there is a direct tie of the device to the account, unlike with a true GSM carrier, where SIM swapping is commonplace).

Yes, this is true as long as Verizon uses a CDMA network for phone calls. It will all change once Verizon gets rid of the CDMA network and moves entirely to VoLTE, which may not happen in my lifetime.

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I feel like the 2am refresh is the better of the two.

yes b/c more people on the east coast are sleeping!

I have a feeling the space gray plus 64 is the most rare. I might see a quick gold or silver but never the gray.

I got one once but never have seen another where I live.

I bet 90% of those iphones go directly over seas haha

Yep!!

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Alright, just popped the SIM out of my 6 Plus and put it into the iPad Air 2. Turned off WiFi and it worked fine registered with Verizon LTE service. I then went to My Verizon and it shows I have an iPad Air 2 on my phone line with a picture of an iPad. Took the SIM out of the iPad and back into the 6 Plus and all is well. So, that works.

Yes of course it works. That is required by the terms of the block C licenses.

So, at the end of the day, I should add a line using the APPLE website. I get a subsidized phone with an UDP on a two-year contract. When the contract expires, it changes over to month-to-month, like I have right now. When I get the phone, I should activate it and wait for it to show up in My Verizon. I take the SIM out and put it into the iPad. I then sell the phone (6 Plus SG 128GB) for at least what I paid for it to get my money back. I tell the new buyer they need to supply their own SIM and to not use Verizon?

They can use the phone on Verizon once you have activated it on the new line as long as they get a new SIM card. They just need to call Verizon or go into a Verizon corporate store and get a free SIM card.

Seems like they may have a problem with Verizon as the phone is already listed with Verizon and may complicate things.

No, not once you have activated it on the new UDP line it will be fine after that to be used on another Verizon line.

The problems arise when people don't activate the new phones on the new UDP lines.

 

[sboychuck]

"No, Verizon allows tablets on UDP lines. Now you may encounter an idiot rep who says otherwise, but if so, hang up on them. And NEVER, NEVER, NEVER go into a Verizon corporate store for any reason is you have a UDP line. That last part has nothing to do with an iPad, it is merely good advice in general."


I have not been into any Verizon store for four years. Is there a specific reason to stay away from the corporate stores with UDP lines? Do they try and change the plan without your knowledge or ????. Just wanted some background for future reference and then to use an authorized retailer instead. Thanks...

 

[JulesJam]

This may not necessarily be the case if the phone is purchased directly through Apple. It was last year, but I noticed that this year, when I moved my AT&T SIM from my VZW 5s to the T-Mobile iPhone 6, I got a text message telling me to get a new SIM from an AT&T retail store. I did so, and the rep was able to add the phone into their system so that it shows up on my account as a supported phone. She was even able to offer me insurance, etc. (which I declined).

Gtk, thanks!

Things may be different this year on the back end with Apple. Remember, the GSM models "work" on VZW this year, though they aren't whitelisted and show up as unknown. So perhaps AT&T and T-Mobile have "whitelisted" all the non-Sprint iPhones for support purposes.

I think all of the radios are enabled on all of the phones even the Sprint radios but I could be wrong.

 

[sboychuck]

Thanks again all for the help.

It is great to be able to come to this forum and get the answers to questions the carriers do not want you to know about.

Looks like I will have a 6 Plus SG 128 GB to sell in 3-4 weeks and recoup my phone costs! Yeah!

 

[JulesJam]

Is there a specific reason to stay away from the corporate stores with UDP lines? Do they try and change the plan without your knowledge or ????.

Yes, they get bonuses for switching people off of UDP. One guy merely had a used device activated on his UDP line and the rep switched him to a 2GB plan.

Also, you don't want them poking around in your account and seeing that you have a UDP line with a 2016 contract end date. That is not supposed to be possible.

 

[KPOM]

"No, Verizon allows tablets on UDP lines. Now you may encounter an idiot rep who says otherwise, but if so, hang up on them. And NEVER, NEVER, NEVER go into a Verizon corporate store for any reason is you have a UDP line. That last part has nothing to do with an iPad, it is merely good advice in general."


I have not been into any Verizon store for four years. Is there a specific reason to stay away from the corporate stores with UDP lines? Do they try and change the plan without your knowledge or ????. Just wanted some background for future reference and then to use an authorized retailer instead. Thanks...

I think the fears are overblown. Just don't do anything silly or call attention to the UDP. I went into a VZW corporate store over the weekend to get a new SIM and activate a used iPhone 5c onto a UDP account that I AOLed in. The rep was "training" a new hire, and so he pulled every trick in the book, including trying to upsell me on minutes, sell me a screen protector or case because the phone has a hairline crack on the screen, and trying unsuccessfully to make small talk while we were waiting what seemed like an excruciatingly long time for the phone to register on the network with the new SIM. Never once did he ask me about the UDP, though I'm sure he saw it.

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Yes, they get bonuses for switching people off of UDP. One guy merely had a used device activated on his UDP line and the rep switched him to a 2GB plan.

Also, you don't want them poking around in your account and seeing that you have a UDP line with a 2016 contract end date. That is not supposed to be possible.

VZW just closed the "pass around the upgrade" loophole this year, so it would be possible even within the corporate policy. Also, they do sell some business/municipal accounts with UDPs.

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Gtk, thanks!

I think all of the radios are enabled on all of the phones even the Sprint radios but I could be wrong.

Probably, but the Sprint phone are permanently SIM-locked, at least for US carriers. They'll only unlock it for non-US use.

 

[JulesJam]

I think the fears are overblown. Just don't do anything silly or call attention to the UDP.

It's a YMMV kind of thing. Safest thing is to avoid them.

VZW just closed the "pass around the upgrade" loophole this year

What do you mean? The 4ever method still works - see the SDs thread.

Probably, but the Sprint phone are permanently SIM-locked, at least for US carriers. They'll only unlock it for non-US use.

But the Verizon phones could work on Sprint if Sprint would whitelist them, correct?

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Wow I think this FTC lawsuit against ATT may very well induce ATT to cancel UDP on off contract lines or not let you renew a UDP line and if they do Verizon will be sure to follow. Enjoy it while you can people!!!!!

http://www.zdnet.com/ftc-sues-at-an...imited-data-but-throttling-speeds-7000035161/

 

[KPOM]

It's a YMMV kind of thing. Safest thing is to avoid them.

What do you mean? The 4ever method still works - see the SDs thread.

But the Verizon phones could work on Sprint if Sprint would whitelist them, correct?

I think the 4ever method was technically a "permitted" upgrade route that Verizon officially closed (but which still works). As for whether the Verizon phones could work on Sprint and vice versa, perhaps, but they use different bands for LTE so coverage would be spotty. The Sprint model has a separate model number.

 

[JulesJam]

I think the 4ever method was technically a "permitted" upgrade route that Verizon officially closed (but which still works).

Well it still works even at Verizon corporate stores.

The Sprint model has a separate model number.

Ah that explains it then. I was under the impression that all of the US released devices' hardware was the same, just the branding was different.

 

[KPOM]

Wow I think this FTC lawsuit against ATT may very well induce ATT to cancel UDP lines and if they do Verizon will be sure to follow. Enjoy it while you can people!!!!!

http://www.zdnet.com/ftc-sues-at-an...imited-data-but-throttling-speeds-7000035161/

Well, I have a truly grandfathered AT&T Unlimited plan that I pay next to nothing for ($61 including tax with my corporate discount) for 450 minutes (with Rollover!), 200 texts, and unlimited data. I hit the throttling cap for the first time in September. It's out of contract. I'll hold onto it for now. If only there were a way to port the number without cancelling the account, I'd move it to my VZW line. The Google Voice trick doesn't work on AT&T.

 

[JulesJam]

The Google Voice trick doesn't work on AT&T.

Why not - you can't change the phone number after you port to GV?

 

[hnamanh]

Hi,

I need a little assistant from you guys on getting this to work. I am currently on the ANY MOBILE TALK & TXT SHR 700 plan and have 5 lines. 4 lines are UDP and one dumb phone line. I created a sub account and transferred 4 of the lines to it. I kept one line on the main account. I tried adding a new line on apple.com and every time it gives me your order can not be processed at this time. I just tried going to the store to do it with the sales rep but it didn't work. The only data option i was able to choose was the tiered plan and it was the new MORE Everything plan. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[sox8104]

hey jules quick question for you. I used a line to make a sub account 700 fam share plan like you had said and yesterday I got a second line on it but can I aol the first line I used to create the sub account and sell the phone or is it better to keep it. don't know if it will mess something up if I aol the line used to create the sub. thanks

 

[skisteven1]

So you AOL'ed the line w/o a PDI on it? Did you ever activate a phone on that line b/f AOLing it?

Is the buyer trying to activate the new phone with the original SIM card in it?

Yes, I think so. They're giving him trouble about the MEID, not the ICCID (ie. sim card number), but that could still be the issue.

He's going to try getting a new VZW sim card today.

Clearly the safest route is to open the phones and activate them, then AOL the line with a PDI on it and then sell the phone.

Though I was once young and stupid, that now seems clear to me. Thanks

I think Jules said a PDI would resolve this issue - I'm not sure though.
I sold one yesterday that also wasn't fully activated before I AOLed the line. He was shipping it int'l and tested it by popping in a sim and it looked like it worked. Have the buyer try just popping in an active sim.

It seems like the phones that i've sold that were not going onto the VZW network have been totally fine. Only had an issue with this one guy trying to get on VZW with the phone.

I think the problem is that the buyer is trying to activate the iP on a Verizon line using the SIM card that the scan activation associated with the line that has now been AOLed.

I think you're right. I'll ask him to get his own SIM.

The CDMA radio is not tied to your account. For the CDMA network, Verizon ties the IMEI of the device that is currently active on a line to the line until you put another device on the line. Once you do, the previous device's IMEI is free to be put on another Verizon line.

This is why I suggest putting a PDI on a line b/f you AOL it.

So then, the PDI before you AOL a line simply makes it easier to use that PHONE later on another VZW line. It doesn't do anything for the line.

But to AOL a line that has never had a device on it to someone and then to sell a phone that is associated with that line to someone else with the SIM card in it that is associated with the line you AOLed is dangerous. The IMEI, ICCID and the line are associated with each other until you do something to change that - i.e., put another device on the AOL'ed line and use a different SIM card to activate the phone.

Got it. Once again, Jules to the rescue. Super helpful, thanks.

 

[JulesJam]

Wow I think this FTC lawsuit against ATT may very well induce ATT to cancel UDP on off contract lines or not let you renew a UDP line and if they do Verizon will be sure to follow. Enjoy it while you can people!!!!!

http://www.zdnet.com/ftc-sues-at-an...imited-data-but-throttling-speeds-7000035161/

I also want to point this out to everyone about the new lines - note the asterisk - UDP is only $29.99/mo!!!!!

 

[beratblakaj]

hey jules quick question for you. I used a line to make a sub account 700 fam share plan like you had said and yesterday I got a second line on it but can I aol the first line I used to create the sub account and sell the phone or is it better to keep it. don't know if it will mess something up if I aol the line used to create the sub. thanks

I believe once you AOL the main number. The second number now becomes the main. You shouldn't have any issues. Jules can confirm but that's how it worked for me.

 

[JulesJam]

ANY MOBILE TALK & TXT SHR 700 plan

It will not work with this plan. I have it too and had to AOL a NW Talk plan with UDP data into a subaccount to be able to add UDP lines.

 

[KPOM]

Why not - you can't change the phone number after you port to GV?

AT&T closes the account as soon as they get the port request. They don't leave it in suspense the way VZW does.

 

[sox8104]

I believe once you AOL the main number. The second number now becomes the main. You shouldn't have any issues. Jules can confirm but that's how it worked for me.

oh okay thank you. I figured that would probably be the case.

 

[JulesJam]

hey jules quick question for you. I used a line to make a sub account 700 fam share plan like you had said and yesterday I got a second line on it but can I aol the first line I used to create the sub account and sell the phone or is it better to keep it. don't know if it will mess something up if I aol the line used to create the sub. thanks

I would keep the first line until you are done and merge it back into your main account b/c that line is the one you created the online access to the subaccount on. If you AOL it, then you would have to re-register for online access to the subaccount.

Is there some reason you can't AOL the second line? Don't you want to merge the first line back into your main account at some point?