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Pathetic support
- Thread starter techguy15
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No, your argument is.
You're wrong.
Awesome thread. We should get to "my dad can beat up your dad" within the next page or so.
My MOM can beat up your dad.
But, seriously, let's take it from this angle: since OP is a novice coder, maybe they will be terrible at it, can't pick up the basic concepts, and or finds out that they really don't want to do it (aside: no guarantee of riches in app business, no matter how kewl you think your idea for an app is, and quality sw dev is not as easy as it seems, even with tools like Xcode, Swift).
An old Mac running an older version of Xcode is a viable entry point to get one's feet wet and learn the basics. If find out that software dev is something that one does not want to pursue, can sell the box and move on, otherwise, then worry about Xcode/OS version support, possible new hardware. And even then, can use what you currently have to get the basic prototype running before investing in your business.
I actually find, in my limited experience, that MacOS makes much better use of old hardware than Windows does---barring them officially dropping support of older hardware for new OS releases. My Macbook Air is much older and less powerful, spec wise, than my (now retired) desktop PC; but not only did the graphics card go kaput on said PC (a blessing I've been visited with on one other occasion) but MacOS is snappier on the Macbook than Windows 10 is on the more powerful machine.
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I'm not mad about Apple dropping macOS support for my 2011 MBPro as I am mad AT Apple for building these crappy, overpriced disposable appliances and calling them MacBook Pro.
If I can't open up my laptop computer for a few simple RAM/storage replacement upgrades, then I really don't want it.
At least Apple could price them lower, for being such disposable equipment, OR not price RAM/storage upgrades so high when you purchase the laptop.
I am quite willing to expend for a new laptop but there's just nothing on Apple's laptop market that I WANT to throw at least a couple thousand dollars of my hard-earned money at, when I see how quality manufacturers like Lenovo are providing radically better hardware values.
[EDIT: changed "I'm not so much mad about" to "I'm not mad about", is what I really meant to say.]
If I can't open up my laptop computer for a few simple RAM/storage replacement upgrades, then I really don't want it.
At least Apple could price them lower, for being such disposable equipment, OR not price RAM/storage upgrades so high when you purchase the laptop.
I am quite willing to expend for a new laptop but there's just nothing on Apple's laptop market that I WANT to throw at least a couple thousand dollars of my hard-earned money at, when I see how quality manufacturers like Lenovo are providing radically better hardware values.
[EDIT: changed "I'm not so much mad about" to "I'm not mad about", is what I really meant to say.]
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If what matters to you most is getting the best specs for the best price, then go for it, I guess? I've certainly gone down that route myself when I was using my PC for gaming, but nowadays I don't care how powerful a machine is on paper if it means I'm stuck using Windows or Linux.
Please check out the second link in my signature. See if you like their laptops.
What on earth is the OP on about? Windows 10 will not be supported on your old hardware, I doubt you can get Creators Edition or newer, Microsoft drop new feature updates for CPUs older than 5 years, and 5 years after that they drop all support which includes security updates. Microsoft are far more agressive at dropping support than Apple.
Heck, Microsoft even drop support for computers that are two years old! The installer won't allow you to install Creators Update. https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-blocks-windows-10-creators-update-on-some-pcs/
Because it is "Windows 10" by brand name, doesn't mean you have the latest version.
Heck, Microsoft even drop support for computers that are two years old! The installer won't allow you to install Creators Update. https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-blocks-windows-10-creators-update-on-some-pcs/
Because it is "Windows 10" by brand name, doesn't mean you have the latest version.
I just retired a PC I built in 2009. Windows 10 was fully supported on it. That's almost a decade of use. I would expect that Apple could do that as well, if they wanted to. The hardware is certainly capable of it.
Yeah, I'm sure we could all convince Apple to have a moratorium on adding new features to their OS for five years, so that peasants who can't keep up can stay 'current'. Again, for those with poor comprehension - Apple makes computers to make a profit, they build macOS to sell new Macs. They are not held back by offering a decade of compatibility with old machines. If you can't afford a new Mac every 5 years, please just do yourself a favour and jump into the slow lane of Windows, where you get a 'new' OS every 5 years that needs to be compatible with every poor POS out there that peasants use, so they can maximise sales of their OS. Just don't mind that every 3rd-world coder can write viruses and malware for such a wide-spread platform that needs to be constantly assessed for infection.
My only hope I've been encouraged by software wise is that my Mac can run Mojave as I've seen in another thread. I'm not ready to take that dive just yet and I understand it's not stable, it's unofficial etc. Do you think xcode and other programs would run smoothly on an unsupported Mac running Mojave?
Even if you could no longer acquire an up to date xcode, you could always use Linux + gcc or a non-Apple version of Clang. For some reason, Apple still doesn't support openmp, even though gcc, the intel compiler, Visual C++ and other forks of clang do. I often find the way IDEs typically set up linking to be a bit cumbersome as well.
I will point out that nothing is ever guaranteed on an unsupported machine. If your system is not supported and you find a critical bug, you will just have to work around it if possible. Y
The rich and stuck-up Apple fanboy, Ladies and Gentlemen. I really should quit this website.
To OP: Unless you're trying to turn a profit, why not install Linux? People have said that development on it is awesome. And in all likelihood, C++ is going to be more useful than Swift. And your computer will be supported for a very long time.
#JoinThePenguinSide
Anyone like this who demonizes people who can't afford newer machines can't be taken seriously. Next person I see eating at McDonald's or some other cheap fast food place I'm going to go inside and demonize them because they "can't afford" to dine in a nicer restaurant
Calling people peasants and telling them what they should or should not purchase is uncalled for and really a low blow at some of us. Also telling people if they can't afford a new Mac every five years then to move to Windows? Like you're some high and mighty king? Please. No reason for you to be mean-spirited. If I can't afford a $2k MacBook but I want to learn to code on what I have and I want to make sure I get the most out of what machine I can afford at the moment....does that make me a peasant? [doublepost=1533229714][/doublepost]
I actually looked into Linux for my Mac. For now I'm okay on HS but Linux is a consideration. I ran Mint on my old Dell and I never had issues with it. There was a learning curve but I started getting used to the terminal. Thank you for actually putting out good ideas and suggestions as apposed to criticizing my "lack of money" like some people on here.
-Pesant
#JoinThePenguinPEASANTSide
My dad has a 2008 24" iMac with 4GB of RAM and I think he made it all the way up to Sierra and was shocked that is STILL works decently well. A 10 year old computer. Even his 2011 11" MacBook Air runs like a champ on High Sierra. I say this only to point out that it surprises me how good of a job Apple does many times with their support. They've had some recent screw ups with Mac OS and iOS, but on the whole, they are essentially supporting Macs that are 6 years old and iOS devices 5 years old (iPhone 5S is supported by iOS 12).
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You're so misguided I don't even know where to begin. Just about every point you think you're making, is so horribly wrong it's laughable, or if accurate would imply that Apple uses coding practices from the 1970's or earlier.
Linux is actually a decent option for developers; especially considering that they can use their knowledge and skills to resolve the myriad issues one is bound to run into as a Linux user. I was a Linux user for many years myself, but I was heavily reliant on more-knowledgeable others to get even basic system functions to work correctly. if I had to ditch Mac, I'd definitely go back to Linux before Windows, but right now I'm very pleased to be using an OS that bears a lot of resemblance to Linux (or BSD) under the hood, but which really 'just works.'
Your macdonalds analogy is bogus. If you want to use a Macdonalds analogy, it would be like you complaining that Macdonalds doesn't serve lobster for the price of a junior burger and blaming Macdonalds. You bought a machine that isn't supported by Mojave, and that's your decision. You wanted to get into mac programming as cheaply as possible and then whinge and whine about how Apple's not supporting your OLD Mac, characterising it as pathetic support. As has been stated by others here, you simply didn't do your research.
[doublepost=1533250800][/doublepost]
You really should. Especially when you suggest that OP should try linux for learning how to develop, when OP wants to learn how to develop FOR the Mac.
[doublepost=1533250967][/doublepost]
Clearly you didn't have the time or inclination to actually make an argument.
Credit where credit's due.
OP wants to develop. Here's how he can develop. Objections? It's a better strategy than calling people that have to buy older Apple machines "peasants" because Apple overprices all newer products, thus you must wait several years before prices come down.
But aside from that, I can smell your burn. It's obvious.
OP, you really should have researched which Macs are compatible with which OSes. Better informed purchasing desicions, please.
[doublepost=1533252592][/doublepost]
It's about fighting on the playground.
[doublepost=1533252667][/doublepost]
Clearly you didn't have the time or inclination to actually make a proper rebuttal.
*slow clap*
[doublepost=1533252723][/doublepost]This thread amuses me.
A 2009 iMac will have had almost a decade of tier 1 software support when Mojave debuts this fall, and another 2 years of tier 2 security updates after that.12 years is pretty good, and I really wouldn’t want to be using a Core 2 Duo in 2018, let alone 2020...