Try downloading the app CoconutBattery and see what it tells you. What MacBook Air model do you have? I can see High Sierra chugging on a 2010 era Core 2 Duo model...
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Pathetic support
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Try downloading the app CoconutBattery and see what it tells you. What MacBook Air model do you have? I can see High Sierra chugging on a 2010 era Core 2 Duo model...
Wait... I missed this. I'll be able to use xcode for at least another year? Til like next June or what?
https://arstechnica.com/information...-could-be-ending-early-on-some-intel-systems/
6-year old CPUs with discontinued Windows 10 support.
No guarantee any Windows 10 device keeps working, as Microsoft now release new builds of Windows 10 every 6 months, with support for 18.
Apple provide a (usually) solid 6-8 years of support, depending on your hardware. Sometimes, if you're lucky, even longer (with some workarounds, and/or caveats).
Most people don't support hardware this long, some people barely support their hardware at all well. But at least with Apple, you shouldn't ever be in a position where you install a new OS, and the hardware doesn't function as it should.
These cheap, netbook-class Atom CPUs are not comparable to the Macs with powerful quad-core Sandy Bridge Core i5 / i7 CPUs Apple stopped supporting in Mojave. The Macs can easily achieve 4x or higher performance.
And performance is exactly what should matter when dropping older hardware. Not an arbitrary age number or Metal requirement when the OS still has everything necessary for OpenGL acceleration.
Which wouldn't have been dropped if these weren't low-performance netbook-class system-on-a-chips to begin with. You simply can't compare them to a $2,499 Mac from 2011 that still holds its own in 2018 and even outperforms brand new MacBooks from Apple with multi-core CPU performance.
There are fundamental instruction sets the graphics cards in these machines lack. OpenGL is deprecated, and the WindowServer runs in metal with a software accelerated OpenGL fallback, something which I suspect is being transitioned to metal. I a Mid 2011, 27'' iMac. It's graphics card is obsolete by modern standards, and it looks like, with the proper GPU replacement, it can run 10.14 with minimal issues. Again, the limitation is the graphics card, not the processor. You say you have PPC Macs, right? Ever try running Leopard on a TiBook with the ATI Rage 128? The processor can handle Leopard fine, the graphics card doesn't support Quartz Extreme and can barely draw the desktop. Same issue with these Macs. They do not support the requisite instruction sets for Metal.
It sounds like you're confusing support built in to Windows and support provided by PC manufacturers.
Many manufacturers like Dell, Lenovo and HP (direct links) provide lists of their hardware that they test for compatibility with every release of Windows 10 to ensure they function correctly. Some of these devices fall off the lists between releases. For example, the Lenovo Thinkpad T430 (released mid 2012) appears on the Lenovo compatibility list for Windows 10 1507 but is no longer on the list for Windows 10 1803. Why Lenovo no longer considers it compatible, I don't know - but the point is that hardware compatibility can change during the Windows lifecycle and if the manufacturers don't fix it (and they won't if the hardware isn't on their compatibility list), you're probably SOL. The other thing you'll notice if you look at the compatibility lists is that you'll find it hard to find devices manufactured before about 2012.
So, the reality of the situation is that (1) hardware compatibility with Windows is completely independent from Microsoft support for Windows 10 that you're referring to and (2) compatibility of older hardware with Windows 10 is at Microsoft's discretion, which is generally good but does seem to change. And with the pace of evolution in Windows 10, I personally consider compatibility with older devices incidental.
On the Apple side of things, discontinuing o/s support for older models sometimes feels fairly arbitrary (e.g. removing support for models with an older wireless chip), and sometimes more understandable (e.g. Mojave requiring metal-capable GPU's). It's no more or less annoying when Apple drops support for a model than when a PC manufacturer drops support, but it happens on both sides of the fence.
I don't get the outrage of the OP. The latest developer tools will run on the previous OS 10.x, if the interest is truly that of learning and coding, where is the issue? Inability to run the latest OS doesn't impact his ability to maximize the investment in the SEVEN year old laptop?
That's all I wanted to know is if I can still use xcode or if it will require me to update to the very latest OS. My "outrage" isn't really that. It's making sure when I purchase Macs in the future that I'm not left guessing if I can use xcode. I'd like to take development, tools, etc seriously. In order to do so I want to make sure I can use xcode properly. I made a small investment on what I could afford to get into iOS programming.
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Professional developers would depreciate their machine after seven years and buy a new one.
Just start developing and enjoy the ride, I'd not bother too much in any way that <maybe> in the future you may or may not be able to use a specific set of new features of an OS or IDE.
If you want to pay your bills by being a dev, you'll appreciate sooner or later that a stable, reliable and highly available development infrastructure and environment is way more important in order to deliver your products than having the latest IDE, OS and hardware at hand. Many times these come with restrictions, uncomplete feature sets, have major issues and lack stability and enterprise readiness, preventing you getting your stuff done.
Keep in mind that a large number of your future customers itself also may not have installed or have access to the very latest soft and hardware, why limit your prospective user base?
In the last decades being in software development from freelancing, large system integrators, off/near shore sourcing partners, to big groups in different roles, I've rarely seen being dependent on the very latest software apart from proof of concept work, explorations or strategic projects.
E.g. the enterprise group I am currently employed with, we are still on Sierra and Xcode 9.3 for iOS and MacOS development in a managed environment. We <may> unit and regression test against Xcode10 with build targets for 10.14 and iOS 12 on specific Mojave environments once Apple is near GM release to make sure applications will not break for users running the latest OSes.
So it's many times more important to ensure upward compatibility and remove deprecated stuff than actually using new features.
If you plan to do multiplatform development you most probably may need to leave Xcode anyways or just use xcodebuild.
Of course above won't apply if your product ideas are dependent e.g. on the latest core AR or ML technologies to bring out that one killer app using specific shiny new features.
^^^ something like this is what I was really looking for: reassurance. Nearly everyone on this thread jumped on me about "whining" over the lack of support for my machine and told me to stuff a sock in it over a 7 year old laptop.
Then FatalFallacy comes along and this post above sums it up. No one else said what's possible with an older version of MacOS. I didn't know I was still able to code with it. Okay, maybe one or two were supportive, but still the majority of the posts were attacks on me. Thank you Fallacy. I now feel like I've got a fighting chance at learning on an older machine. I can update machines in the future, not a problem, but it's a comfort to know that I can still learn for now. That's all I really needed to hear.
Unfortunately it doesn't mean that all subsequent versions of Xcode 10 will work on High Sierra though.
Last year, Xcode 9 worked with Sierra up to version 9.2. But Xcode 9.3 (released in March this year) dropped support for it. See https://xcodereleases.com for details.
guess I'll find out how long I can use Xcode and learn for now. Trying to get in all the knowledge I can about programming before this Mac and its tools are obsolete. To add to your point, I found out about xcode dropping support like you mentioned when I first used a 2010 MacBook Pro running Sierra and tried to download xcode. It had me first update to High Sierra before I could download it. My only hope I've been encouraged by software wise is that my Mac can run Mojave as I've seen in another thread. I'm not ready to take that dive just yet and I understand it's not stable, it's unofficial etc. Do you think xcode and other programs would run smoothly on an unsupported Mac running Mojave?
I think the key summary here is to go ahead and learn and explore. Don't worry about when something might become obsolete, because with the knowledge you acquire from becoming a savvy Mac/iOS developer, you'll be able to adapt when the time comes. Two things if you can't shake the worry, though:
1.) Start saving for a new Mac right now. If you're going to be a professional, especially an indie, this is key to your livelihood and can be considered an expense (for tax purposes as well as philosophically). Put away whatever you can, bit by bit, in order to enable yourself to stay at the cutting edge (or leap to it if it takes you a long time to save—totally understandable in these times).
2.) Keep an eye on the latest news in this realm from Apple. If a new Xcode version (almost certainly to be released at WWDC, which isn't until June next year) is going to stop working on your Mac, don't upgrade. Leave that Mac as a development machine in maintenance mode until you can purchase your way up. If you can't go all the way to brand new (again, totally ok) then buy a 2 or 3 year old machine instead of 7 regardless of how good the specs seem on the older model.
Good luck with your journey learning to be a developer! We need more curious and self-motivated folks to make cool stuff that we all get to enjoy. Your machine will be fine. And as long as you plan ahead, your next one will be even better.
1.) Start saving for a new Mac right now. If you're going to be a professional, especially an indie, this is key to your livelihood and can be considered an expense (for tax purposes as well as philosophically). Put away whatever you can, bit by bit, in order to enable yourself to stay at the cutting edge (or leap to it if it takes you a long time to save—totally understandable in these times).
2.) Keep an eye on the latest news in this realm from Apple. If a new Xcode version (almost certainly to be released at WWDC, which isn't until June next year) is going to stop working on your Mac, don't upgrade. Leave that Mac as a development machine in maintenance mode until you can purchase your way up. If you can't go all the way to brand new (again, totally ok) then buy a 2 or 3 year old machine instead of 7 regardless of how good the specs seem on the older model.
Good luck with your journey learning to be a developer! We need more curious and self-motivated folks to make cool stuff that we all get to enjoy. Your machine will be fine. And as long as you plan ahead, your next one will be even better.
Yes this!! Not many devs I know refuse to upgrade hardware after 7 years and plan to go back to windows especially. Yuck!
I'm just gonna leave this here....
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macos-10-14-mojave-on-unsupported-macs-thread.2121473/
Welcome to MacRumors. I've been through it too.
If your goal is to deal with nice people, then keep looking. Maybe go to the official Apple forums.
Your best bet is to either leave now, or grow some skin and don't give anyone any power.
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Professional developers can still be professional on their own terms.
If your goal is to deal with nice people, then keep looking. Maybe go to the official Apple forums.
Your best bet is to either leave now, or grow some skin and don't give anyone any power.
^ thanks. I have a pretty thick skin. No one really bothers me. I just don't think it's productive for others to tell someone that they don't have a right to voice out their opinion as many people did on my thread. In regards to my Mac I'm referring to into this post, I actually like it. Heck I think I'll keep it even when I have to upgrade to a newer Mac (yes my next machine will be a Mac!) I enrolled in an online course to go over everything about Swift. I plan on using this Mac for that course until I can't upgrade Xcode. I've heard a lot of different opinions of when I won't be able to use it on High Sierra. Guess we'll see
Your best bet is to either leave now, or grow some skin and don't give anyone any power.
^ thanks. I have a pretty thick skin. No one really bothers me. I just don't think it's productive for others to tell someone that they don't have a right to voice out their opinion as many people did on my thread. In regards to my Mac I'm referring to into this post, I actually like it. Heck I think I'll keep it even when I have to upgrade to a newer Mac (yes my next machine will be a Mac!
) I enrolled in an online course to go over everything about Swift. I plan on using this Mac for that course until I can't upgrade Xcode. I've heard a lot of different opinions of when I won't be able to use it on High Sierra. Guess we'll see
If your goal is to deal with nice people, then keep looking. Maybe go to the official Apple forums.
Your best bet is to either leave now, or grow some skin and don't give anyone any power.
I just don't think it's productive for others to tell someone that they don't have a right to voice out their opinion as many people did on my thread.
Welcome to the Internet. This place sucks.
As to your next MacBook, good for you. Hope you'll like it.
Just to spite anyone who specifically did not want to know, here's my next laptop. https://puri.sm/products/librem-13/
I'll meet you there with my EDGE iPhone 1!What's with this sudden resurgence of whining from folk expecting their old devices to still work with all the latest operating systems?
True story: I just fired up my 2012 Droid Incredible. Rather unsurprisingly Google no longer allow it to connect to my Gmail account. Think I need to hop on over to the first Android forum I can find and complain incessantly how Google don't care about supporting users with old hardware...
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Exactly. Its so easy to take it personally or think "this shouldn't happen". I loved firewire but that doesn't mean its still effective.