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Pathetic support
- Thread starter techguy15
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On current hardware...
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We will see how people feel about this in a couple of years when their aging computer is starting to show it's age because Apple has dropped support. Anyone who spends $3k to $6k or more should expect a full and healthy life from their computer. The attitude coming from the Apple fanboys only applies to a very small number of those who can afford to buy a new laptop every year. Good luck to you and all the pretenders. May you live a long and happy life so you can continue to make payments long after your computer is no longer supported...
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No one needs to buy a new computer every year to keep up to date, so whingers, try to avoid hyperbole when attacking people that think people who seriously want to be developers and want to be up to date, need to do more research when they buy OLD Macs.
I'm sorry if you think that because you're counting pennies, Apple should care. Apple are here to make money from making computers. Extending support for old machines impacts on everyone who wants the latest OS. It takes resources to keep coding for machines that are so old, If you're buying a new computer every 10 years, you're just not Apple's (or anyone's) target market. You are simply not worth investing in.
I'm sorry if you think that because you're counting pennies, Apple should care. Apple are here to make money from making computers. Extending support for old machines impacts on everyone who wants the latest OS. It takes resources to keep coding for machines that are so old, If you're buying a new computer every 10 years, you're just not Apple's (or anyone's) target market. You are simply not worth investing in.
Do you want to add that Apple makes money from its App Store? Sure they make hundreds of millions of dollars off Mac, iPhone, etc yes I get that. But they also make some money off developers great ideas. A great team of developers can make a smash hit game and make it big on iOS. How do they get there? Using a Mac of course
So, in short, they need to support both seasoned developers and entry level coders like myself. Is it really going to hurt Apple to support some machines for a few more years?
The phrase "full and healthy life" is grossly subjective. Is 3 years long enough? 5 years? 7 years? 20 years? Seriously... of course the answer to "how long should Apple support a device" is "as long as I am using it". But that's just not a reasonable expectation.
A computer doesn't "show it's age because Apple has dropped support"... it shows it's age because it gets old, something breaks or technology advances and the computer gets 'left behind'. Apple supports hardware for as long as feasible - 7 years is a very long run, IMO. In order to move on, Apple has deemed that support for Metal is necessary to move forward, which will leave some computers behind. Of course every one who buys a computer expects it to work for all of eternity. People "ooh" and "ahhh" when Apple announces and releases new tech, but they expect this new shiny tech to somehow be backward compatible with older hardware, which is rarely possible.
Most people don't buy new computers every year... but I'd question the wisdom of anyone still making payments on a 7 year old computer.
There wouldn't be as many.
Apple overprices their products. They drop OS support every three years. They are almost a trillion dollar company. They have hundreds of millions of consistent customers who put Apple very close to their heart. Apple can stand to support their [expensive] products a few more years than they do.
The lone fact that High Sierra supports the 2010 MacBook instead of the 2009 Mac Pro is embarrassing (putting aside High Sierra being among the most broken releases of OS X ever). They can easily adjust support for different products as needed. Workstations should be 10 years, professional laptops should be 9, etc... I understand you sometimes must make cuts in order for the machine to run the OS as well as possible, but I believe Apple is a little too trigger-happy in this regard.
In any case, I'm thankful that the community is filling in Apple's gaps as needed (as they always do), and that you can unofficially run High Sierra on a 2008 Mac Pro, and that you can (probably) run Mojave on a 2011 iMac. If Apple did not deprecate OpenGL in Mojave (which was a wholly unnecessary move), and retained some kind of legacy compatibility layer, at least for a while longer (which would have been a very rational course of action), we would not be having this discussion.
When you question anyone still financially supporting a valuable asset, no matter how old it may be, I question the wisdom of you.
Depending on its use and owner, absolutely. Don't discount something just because it's old. I blame Apple for this "disposable technology" mentality that has seeded itself in the minds of so many. It's a horrible mindset.
And the context was that of 7-year-old computer, not that of the laptop in question, but if the OP is going to be relying on it, then yes, it is indeed a "valuable asset".
I agree with your agreement of our agreeing to disagree. Indeed, it would be detrimental if we disagreed to agree in favor of agreeing to disagree, which we have both thankfully agreed upon, if you agree.
And I agree, relics belong in museums. But a massively-manufactured consumer device from 2011 is not a relic by usual practical means, wouldn't you agree?
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OK. So Apple are moving to Metal, dropping OpenGL support. This will result in improved performance.
Let me rephrase this - why should those of us with a newer Mac suffer so that those who haven't upgraded can use the latest software.
Your computer will not break just because you can't use the latest OS. And tbh, anyone who's using a 7 year old computer isn't exactly interested in the latest and greatest, and certainly isn't "just about to buy into Apple's whole ecosystem".
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So do you complain that the iPhone 4s can't run iOS 12? Same timeline.
We were talking about computers, not phones.
I'd say they're fine as far as phone support goes.
No one is stopping you from putting Mojave on your machine even though it's not supported. Dropping support lets them focus on developing for the newest hardware. Also Apple tends to keep recent older versions of OS X updated with security patches. I see nothing wrong the current model Apple is using.
My Mac, which is the topic of this thread I started, runs fine on High Sierra. It ran fine on Sierra when I got it. I guess people keep forgetting my main worry is not being able to use the latest Xcode for my online course on Swift....And that's a very valid concern and I don't care what anyone says. You lose.
I'm a beginner so I don't see the point in going into Apple and putting down over $1k on a new Mac. I simply can't afford that. Shoot even a used Mac is expensive. I settled for a late 2011 to get my feet wet. It's what I could afford and my financial situation is my own and no one else's business. Did I get an older machine? Yes. But do I really have time to play roulette and guess which models are going to be supported and which ones are not? No. I gave up that game with Android phones. I buy mid range Androids knowing full well they might not get support even one year later. I get it, they're cheap phones. I'm not an unrealistic person here. Someone brought up phones and so that's why I say this. But when I see very expensive well-built computers with capable specs getting cut I do have the right to speak up. There's nothing wrong with a 7 year old laptop...for a novice coder like myself. I'm not gonna spend $2k+ on a maxed out MacBook with 32gb ram, all the bells and whistles etc especially if I find that coding might not be for me as I progress in this current course. That's like saying well gee I'd like to learn how to drive a manual car so maybe I'll start with a new Ferrari. You know? When you first learn to drive you don't go out to a dealership and buy a $80k Mercedes to learn on. Just doesn't work like that. Hey I'd like to learn about iOS coding so man I'm gonna drop $2,000 or $3,000... At least I'm not out a lot of money. At this point I like the machine I have and I use it daily and I might just keep it who knows. I'm not unrealistic but with my machine I would think it can run Mojave just fine... Yeah I know, I know... Metal, metal, metal. I'm just hoping I can use Xcode for at least another year before I upgrade to another Mac. That's all and it's not a lot to ask. I might take a dive and install the Mojave patcher I found on the unsupported forum. That looks cool. Might help push Xcode along.
I'd like to add that awhile back when I looked at Macs online I found the term "future proof". Owners would say their 2010, 11, etc were future proof due to maxed out RAM, SSD, etc. I'm curious as to how that term came about.
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I wonder if my 2012 Toyota is an antique. It's got 64k miles. So old and ancient! It's ready for the scrap heap. Can you imagine a 2011???? It's ready for a classic car museum! Damn
I'm a beginner so I don't see the point in going into Apple and putting down over $1k on a new Mac. I simply can't afford that. Shoot even a used Mac is expensive. I settled for a late 2011 to get my feet wet. It's what I could afford and my financial situation is my own and no one else's business. Did I get an older machine? Yes. But do I really have time to play roulette and guess which models are going to be supported and which ones are not? No. I gave up that game with Android phones. I buy mid range Androids knowing full well they might not get support even one year later. I get it, they're cheap phones. I'm not an unrealistic person here. Someone brought up phones and so that's why I say this. But when I see very expensive well-built computers with capable specs getting cut I do have the right to speak up. There's nothing wrong with a 7 year old laptop...for a novice coder like myself. I'm not gonna spend $2k+ on a maxed out MacBook with 32gb ram, all the bells and whistles etc especially if I find that coding might not be for me as I progress in this current course. That's like saying well gee I'd like to learn how to drive a manual car so maybe I'll start with a new Ferrari. You know? When you first learn to drive you don't go out to a dealership and buy a $80k Mercedes to learn on. Just doesn't work like that. Hey I'd like to learn about iOS coding so man I'm gonna drop $2,000 or $3,000...
At least I'm not out a lot of money. At this point I like the machine I have and I use it daily and I might just keep it who knows. I'm not unrealistic but with my machine I would think it can run Mojave just fine... Yeah I know, I know... Metal, metal, metal. I'm just hoping I can use Xcode for at least another year before I upgrade to another Mac. That's all and it's not a lot to ask. I might take a dive and install the Mojave patcher I found on the unsupported forum. That looks cool. Might help push Xcode along.I'd like to add that awhile back when I looked at Macs online I found the term "future proof". Owners would say their 2010, 11, etc were future proof due to maxed out RAM, SSD, etc. I'm curious as to how that term came about.
[doublepost=1532759744][/doublepost]
I wonder if my 2012 Toyota is an antique. It's got 64k miles. So old and ancient! It's ready for the scrap heap. Can you imagine a 2011???? It's ready for a classic car museum! Damn
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My Mac, which is the topic of this thread I started, runs fine on High Sierra. It ran fine on Sierra when I got it. I guess people keep forgetting my main worry is not being able to use the latest Xcode for my online course on Swift....And that's a very valid concern and I don't care what anyone says. You lose.
I'm a beginner so I don't see the point in going into Apple and putting down over $1k on a new Mac. I simply can't afford that. Shoot even a used Mac is expensive. I settled for a late 2011 to get my feet wet. It's what I could afford and my financial situation is my own and no one else's business. Did I get an older machine? Yes. But do I really have time to play roulette and guess which models are going to be supported and which ones are not? No. I gave up that game with Android phones. I buy mid range Androids knowing full well they might not get support even one year later. I get it, they're cheap phones. I'm not an unrealistic person here. Someone brought up phones and so that's why I say this. But when I see very expensive well-built computers with capable specs getting cut I do have the right to speak up. There's nothing wrong with a 7 year old laptop...for a novice coder like myself. I'm not gonna spend $2k+ on a maxed out MacBook with 32gb ram, all the bells and whistles etc especially if I find that coding might not be for me as I progress in this current course. That's like saying well gee I'd like to learn how to drive a manual car so maybe I'll start with a new Ferrari. You know? When you first learn to drive you don't go out to a dealership and buy a $80k Mercedes to learn on. Just doesn't work like that. Hey I'd like to learn about iOS coding so man I'm gonna drop $2,000 or $3,000...
I'd like to add that awhile back when I looked at Macs online I found the term "future proof". Owners would say their 2010, 11, etc were future proof due to maxed out RAM, SSD, etc. I'm curious as to how that term came about.
[doublepost=1532759744][/doublepost]
I wonder if my 2012 Toyota is an antique. It's got 64k miles. So old and ancient! It's ready for the scrap heap. Can you imagine a 2011???? It's ready for a classic car museum! Damn
Hi Folks
I have a mid 2011 iMac 27" with a SSD installed and do have a few points.
1. Had this since new and with the SSD it is super fast.
2. Apple has built a great machine and I have had many years of pleasure.
3. This seems such a waste not to be able to upgrade to Mojave.
4. With the millions of dollars profit the company makes it was not surely impossible to produce a cut down version of Mojave for older machines. Other folks seem to be nearly there without Apples help.
5. Apple always boast how many of its products have adopted the latest operating system.
Dave
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We're discussing computers, not cars.
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Why should they build a cut down version of Mojave for really quite old machines? There's simply no money in it. Apple needs to sell computers (and phones etc) to make profits. They develop new versions of MacOS to drive new sales. They don't charge for macOS.
Bottom line is that if you cannot invest in a new mac when apple finally drops off support for your current mac, that's your problem.
I don't see what the problem is. They seem to continue to support older releases for 3 years (from what I can see, they happen to discontinue support when the release hits N-2). That's good enough for me. I only just upgraded my MacBook Pro from OS X El Capitan to macOS Sierra this year. After Apple discontinues supporting your hardware, you know you've got 2 to 3 years of continued security updates before you need to think about buying a new machine.
They eventually need to discontinue support for older hardware so they can strip out legacy code in the operating system. It's not always motivated by getting users to buy newer hardware from them.
They eventually need to discontinue support for older hardware so they can strip out legacy code in the operating system. It's not always motivated by getting users to buy newer hardware from them.
Stop whining Dave! Your iMac is old!
1. Try and install a super SSD and see if there's a difference in speed.
2. Apple builds great machines? More like super fantastic machines!
3. A waste not upgrading your ancient museum-ready machine to Mojave? Apple obviously needs to devote its resources towards making sure insanely fast and under speced phones like the iPhone 5S get iOS 12! So forget your more powerful iMac!
4. Apple has billions, not millions. They reserve no right to update your capable but ancient machine to Mojave. Your iMac is trash and it's old. Just like my 2011 MacBook Pro.
5. What do you mean? Apple is supporting it's 2013 iPhone 5S which will run the upcoming iOS 12! They made sure a phone with a dual core processor and 1gb of RAM is getting the latest and greatest software. Your iMac that's two years older with more powerful specs than a phone cannot possibly run Mojave properly like the 5S will run iOS 12. It makes no sense for Apple to invest in their older iMacs and MacBooks. What do you think Apple is, a computer company?
Overall stop whining and throw your iMac in the local recycling center. It's selfish of you to come on here and think your SSD 2011 iMac that can easily run Mojave will somehow be supported. That's almost the same as someone with a late 2011 MacBook Pro with 16gb RAM coming on here whining about not getting Mojave (pronounced MO Jaave, not ha-vee) by the way.
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Apple made sure the 5S gets iOS 12. They somehow optimized it for that incredibly ancient device, did they not?
For what it's worth, I believe somewhere around the late 2000's or early 2010's, Apple changed their corporate name from Apple Computer to Apple Inc.
Just like Google in 2015 changed their corporate slogan from "Don't be evil" to "Do the right thing".
Food for thought.
Again you're talking out of your backside. iOS 12 is an incremental update compared to previous years and doesn't involve moving to a new graphics system (Metal) like Mojave does. Also, the iPhone 5S is only 4 years 10 months old. As I said before, if you budget to replace your Mac every 5 years, you'll never go wrong...
For what it's worth, I believe somewhere around the late 2000's or early 2010's, Apple changed their corporate name from Apple Computer to Apple Inc.
Just like Google in 2015 changed their corporate slogan from "Don't be evil" to "Do the right thing".
Food for thought.
You can't see me but I'm slow clapping at your comment
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**defeated look on my face**
You win man. You win