Petsmart removed from Apple Pay list

[JoeTomasone]

In defense for the OP, people have been dealing with security breaches left and right these past few years. Just because they have had no issues, 5 years ago means they should keep doing the same old same old.

The security breaches at major retailers is increasing all the time and your personal info is being compromised left and right. I think the approach of Apple Pay is a great step in the right direction.

Just received my second replacement card of 2014 thanks to Target and Home Depot. Looking forward to changing all of the bills paid via CC yet again. (Not).

It's about the security. The convenience factor - which varies by person - is secondary and incidental to me.

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ANY type of NFC based solution is probably better than swiping a card

Not true. Using a contactless credit card is no better than swiping from a security perspective.

Google Wallet and Apple Pay offer more security.

What if, and just bare with me here, what if with CurrentC your purchase was discounted half the amount saved by the business. So for example what would normally cost them 4% in fees they discounted your purchased items 2%?

Would you still not shop at places that offered it over ApplePay? Btw you still don't have to use it, you can use a credit card and not get any discount. I'm just curious if you'd still not shop at those places even if their was a clear benefit to the consumer.

So I save $2.00 on a $100 sale, and in return I accept all of the liability for a fraudulent transaction or identify theft if their system gets hacked?

That's simply not worth it to me.

 

[willmtaylor]

You're funny. You mocked the OP with a "Sounds smart" remark then proceeded to report a member.

But that's not even the best part. He mocked the OP, tattled on him, but then posted a 1-word post which didn't add to the discussion, which is against forum rules.

 

[tj22]

Apple loyalty is so nauseating.

OP lost the ability to save .002 seconds checking out at a store (and to look like a dork in the process), and his feathers got so ruffled over it, he embarrassed himself by taking issue with Petsmart not letting Apple bury it with transaction fees, a cost that he, as a consumer, would ultimately bear.

"Shut up and take my money."

 

[dontwalkhand]

It works at Petsmart fine here, just because they aren't on Apple's list doesn't mean Apple Pay does not work.

 

[Michael CM1]

In my area they are more expensive. Is using Apple Pay worth buying pet supplies for more money?

To me, apple pay is but one possible payment method. If a retailer doesn't use it, but provides either good prices or good service I'll use them. Lack of Apple pay is not a deciding factor. In a sense I could care less about further lining apple's pockets (they get a piece of the action for every use).

I personally want my iPhone to kill my wallet. Aside from cash, there's no reason it can't. So that's why I would be a person to frequent stores supporting it more. It's more secure than swiping a card and signing your name, and the technology could eventually ditch all plastic cards -- including IDs -- from wallets.

But since Petsmart is all there is around here, to there I still go.

 

[deeddawg]

Petsmart not letting Apple bury it with transaction fees, a cost that he, as a consumer, would ultimately bear.

Just a suggestion, you might want to know what you're talking about before posting such stuff. All you've succeeded in doing is looking foolish in your ignorance.

The merchants and acquirers pay no fees to Apple; the card issuers (banks) pay the fee. Their expectation is that the fee will be more than offset by a reduction in fraud costs due to the greater security of EMV tokenization relative to a conventional card-swipe.

What will be interesting to see further down the line is if the exchanges and banks lower the fees to the acquirers for tokenized purchases (inclusive of Google Wallet) vs swiped.

It will also be interesting to see how merchants incent people to use chip+sign instead of swipe in a year when liability shifts to the acquirers.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I've never seen one.

The American Express Blue cards were (had the antenna for wireless payment). I actually punched the chip out of my card after I started hearing of people having their cards hacked, and making unwanted purchases...

It's easy enough for me to spend their money, I don't need any help.

 

[Newtons Apple]

I personally want my iPhone to kill my wallet. Aside from cash, there's no reason it can't. So that's why I would be a person to frequent stores supporting it more. It's more secure than swiping a card and signing your name, and the technology could eventually ditch all plastic cards -- including IDs -- from wallets.

But since Petsmart is all there is around here, to there I still go.

You wants are a few years down the road. No matter how badly you people want Apple Pay to fly, it will a while and in the mean time there are multiple additional systems that will come on line and compete.

Competition will be HUGE as there is a lot of money involved here and Apple will no take over and be the only player.

 

[legioxi]

In my area they are more expensive. Is using Apple Pay worth buying pet supplies for more money?

To me, apple pay is but one possible payment method. If a retailer doesn't use it, but provides either good prices or good service I'll use them. Lack of Apple pay is not a deciding factor. In a sense I could care less about further lining apple's pockets (they get a piece of the action for every use).

Until token purchasing is supported with other systems in the US, I will opt for Apple Pay supporting vendors over non-Apple Pay supporting ones simply for the privacy and fraud protection. The extra cost is worth it to me and usually competing vendors are across the street from each other around here.

I fully expect more NFC capable credit cards with tokenization to come out and more retailers to turn on NFC in the near future though. I believe AMEX is the only one supporting this (or soon supporting this) in the US at the moment.

 

[BeeGood]

Do you really think any major retailer is going to completely cut off credit card payments?

CurrentC adoption will be encouraged via discounts, special deals, or other carrots.

It needn't be all-or-nothing for the merchants to realize a benefit; simply reducing credit card fee payments is a win by itself. And if they do make a notable impact on card usage it puts them in a stronger negotiating position with Visa/MC/Amex/Disc.

No single retailer will, but if they are colluding to block NFC mobile payments, do you really think they won't try to do the same if they can make their "alternative" mainstream?

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Not true. Using a contactless credit card is no better than swiping from a security perspective.

Google Wallet and Apple Pay offer more security.

Those don't use NFC do they? I thought they used some other technology. And I probably should have clarified that I meant any NFC mobile payment system is better than using a credit card.

 

[tj22]

Just a suggestion, you might want to know what you're talking about before posting such stuff. All you've succeeded in doing is looking foolish in your ignorance.

The merchants and acquirers pay no fees to Apple; the card issuers (banks) pay the fee. Their expectation is that the fee will be more than offset by a reduction in fraud costs due to the greater security of EMV tokenization relative to a conventional card-swipe.

What will be interesting to see further down the line is if the exchanges and banks lower the fees to the acquirers for tokenized purchases (inclusive of Google Wallet) vs swiped.

It will also be interesting to see how merchants incent people to use chip+sign instead of swipe in a year when liability shifts to the acquirers.

And the bank passes the fee on to Petsmart (ever encountered a minimum purchase requirement or card fee at a small store?), and Petsmart passes the fee onto the consumer.

Six to one, half dozen to the other. Same end result. But by all means, carry on dedicating hours and hours to the defense of a company you have no affiliation with. lol

 

[deeddawg]

And the bank passes the fee on to Petsmart

Sounds like you've never owned a small business and accepted credit cards.

The merchant has specific contract rates with the acquirer (aka the company that runs the credit cards through the payment networks). Until that contract is renewed (or unless they signed a variable rate agreement) the acquirer can't change the rates for different transaction types. For example a card-swiped transaction (someone with card in hand in your presence) rate is usually a bunch lower than one where you take a phone order and punch the card number into the terminal.

If anything the issuers/networks will set the rate for an EMV tokenization charge to be lower than a card-present swiped rate due to the enhanced security reducing fraud losses.

By the way -- do you know the fee that the issuers pay Apple?

(ever encountered a minimum purchase requirement or card fee at a small store?),

Those fees exist for all credit transactions; it's a set per-transaction fee plus a percentage of the charge.

carry on dedicating hours and hours to the defense of a company you have no affiliation with. lol

It's mildly amusing combatting the ignorance people spew here with some actual facts. If others reading the threads gain some education about how this stuff works, that's a good result.

Do you think an implementation of a payment system that should reduce credit card fraud is NOT something we should be in favor of? Or do you think that fraud costs are somehow special and NOT passed on to consumers?

Seems to me that reducing credit card fraud benefits everyone... unless you're a crook.

 

[JoeTomasone]

Those don't use NFC do they? I thought they used some other technology. And I probably should have clarified that I meant any NFC mobile payment system is better than using a credit card.

They use NFC. That's what those readers were originally developed for. Keep in mind that RFID is a close cousin of NFC, so you may have heard them referred to as RFID cards.

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

And the bank passes the fee on to Petsmart (ever encountered a minimum purchase requirement or card fee at a small store?), and Petsmart passes the fee onto the consumer.

That's already reflected in the price of goods just from the customers' using credit cards. Apple Pay doesn't result in an increase and may in fact lower the overall fees in the long run as there's less chance of data breach and fraud, which the banks have to cover.

 

[BeeGood]

They use NFC. That's what those readers were originally developed for. Keep in mind that RFID is a close cousin of NFC, so you may have heard them referred to as RFID cards.

Didn't know RFID and NFC were related... I just learned something today

I'm not opposed to the chip embedded in the card, but I would rather something a little more sophisticated and secure. Most android phones built in the last 3 years have NFC chips and in a few years, most iPhones out in the wild will as well.

 

[deeddawg]

Didn't know RFID and NFC were related... I just learned something today

Yep. Technically NFC is a specialized subset within the RFID family. Here's a good article and infographic: http://blog.atlasrfidstore.com/rfid-vs-nfc

I'm not opposed to the chip embedded in the card, but I would rather something a little more sophisticated and secure.

Agreed. Mentioned here or in another thread, MasterCard pushed hard to get their PayPass system adopted. I never saw much about Visa's similar payWave system. Never really caught on in the US, partially due to a misperception of susceptibily to fraudulent charges without the person knowing and mostly because they didn't tend to offer much advantage over just swiping the card.

Google Wallet and ApplePay hopefully offset the perception of vulnerability because the consumer is actively involved in authorizing any transaction.

 

[Michael CM1]

You wants are a few years down the road. No matter how badly you people want Apple Pay to fly, it will a while and in the mean time there are multiple additional systems that will come on line and compete.

Competition will be HUGE as there is a lot of money involved here and Apple will no take over and be the only player.

Very true. But I can use all the power I possess to frequent places that use it. It's not really that much of a factor until the drugstore deal where companies yank payment systems to push a competitor that doesn't even exist yet.

I can recall a few years back when a Sam's Club didn't accept any credit cards other than Discover. This was because of the swipe fees. It ended up with me not going there because I was using credit and debit cards, and my bank at the time charged extra for debits using your PIN instead of signing like a credit card. Now I'm pretty sure most Sam's stores use them all. It's just the CODB. If you want to sidestep it, do like Target with the 5 percent off for using the store card. I go there all the time thanks to that.

 

[Newtons Apple]

Very true. But I can use all the power I possess to frequent places that use it. It's not really that much of a factor until the drugstore deal where companies yank payment systems to push a competitor that doesn't even exist yet.

I can recall a few years back when a Sam's Club didn't accept any credit cards other than Discover. This was because of the swipe fees. It ended up with me not going there because I was using credit and debit cards, and my bank at the time charged extra for debits using your PIN instead of signing like a credit card. Now I'm pretty sure most Sam's stores use them all. It's just the CODB. If you want to sidestep it, do like Target with the 5 percent off for using the store card. I go there all the time thanks to that.

I will never blame the retailer for wanting to save money and the sipe fees total in the billions. They have been working on this new system to save them money. I fear getting hacked like everyone else but choose to keep it in perspective and will not allow it to change my shopping habits.

I do wish the USA would catch up with the rest of the world and at least get chipped cards in the hands of the users. As far as Apple Pay, I will wait and see.

 

[JoeTomasone]

I do wish the USA would catch up with the rest of the world and at least get chipped cards in the hands of the users. As far as Apple Pay, I will wait and see.

Chip & pin cards (EMV standard) transmit card data in the clear, and thus would still have been compromised in Home Depot, Target, et al. The only problems that they attempt to solve are 1) unauthorized use of a lost or stolen physical card and 2) cloning of a card.

The card networks are essentially forcing US merchants to accept chip and pin cards by this time next year (although gas stations get another 2 years to comply). Merchants who don't will be forced to accept liability for fraudulent transactions conducted on their swipe-only terminals.

Since most of the terminals that support EMV also have NFC, it is expected that this will result in much wider NFC acceptance over the next year.

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

Since most of the terminals that support EMV also have NFC, it is expected that this will result in much wider NFC acceptance over the next year.

That's only if the retailer enables NFC. Just because a terminal is NFC-capable doesn't mean it's actually enabled. A major brand, Verifone, has included NFC in all its POS machines since 2011 but I still see many newish Verifone terminals with NFC disabled.

 

[JoeTomasone]

That's only if the retailer enables NFC. Just because a terminal is NFC-capable doesn't mean it's actually enabled. A major brand, Verifone, has included NFC in all its POS machines since 2011 but I still see many newish Verifone terminals with NFC disabled.

Granted - but with the interest in Apple Pay, why wouldn't you, as a merchant, enable it now? In the past, sure - no one was using it. If you're a member of MCX - we get that. But everyone else? You go with the tide, generally.

 

[Newtons Apple]

Chip & pin cards (EMV standard) transmit card data in the clear, and thus would still have been compromised in Home Depot, Target, et al. The only problems that they attempt to solve are 1) unauthorized use of a lost or stolen physical card and 2) cloning of a card.

The card networks are essentially forcing US merchants to accept chip and pin cards by this time next year (although gas stations get another 2 years to comply). Merchants who don't will be forced to accept liability for fraudulent transactions conducted on their swipe-only terminals.

Since most of the terminals that support EMV also have NFC, it is expected that this will result in much wider NFC acceptance over the next year.

CHip and Pin cards will still be a welcome addition when compared to what I have now. I am not jumping on the Apple Pay wagon now, maybe next year but after waiting in line behind some poor sap trying to pay for his groceries with Apple Pay . . . . . I will be waiting for a long time.

 

[kupkakez]

Neither of them sell food worth feeding your dog anyway.

Petco sells Merrick which is a pretty good grain-free dog food. Although I just have it auto-shipped from chewy.com which sometimes is a little cheaper than Petco.

So yes one of them does have worthy food to feed your dog.

I wouldn't stop shopping at Petsmart just because of Apple Pay though. I like to get my dogs toys from there, plus their vet is right there.

 

[KuchiKopi]

Petco sells Merrick which is a pretty good grain-free dog food. Although I just have it auto-shipped from chewy.com which sometimes is a little cheaper than Petco.

So yes one of them does have worthy food to feed your dog.

I wouldn't stop shopping at Petsmart just because of Apple Pay though. I like to get my dogs toys from there, plus their vet is right there.

You feed your dog Merrick? That poor poor pooch.

 

[deeddawg]

You feed your dog Merrick? That poor poor pooch.

Gee that's a particularly unhelpful comment.

Not that I've ever heard of Merrick before, but maybe if you're going to advise on dog food you might add some substance to help people understand your stance.