Phil Schiller Discusses 16-Inch MacBook Pro, Says Virtual Esc Key Was Number One Complaint About Touch Bar

[pawxpaw]

Any reason why a pixelbook is being compared to a MacBook Pro. Don’t understand as one depends on an almost always on connection and the other doesn’t. I own both btw, I just find it odd that even an iPad is being compared to chrome OS.

Because in this article phil from Apple tried to slam chromebook as useless.
On the contrary the pixelbook is an amazing machine that would be perfect for many who have used Mac computers before.
in fact it reminds me of Apple computers from around 2008 when they were lightning fast and less full of a bloated os.

 

[Think creative]

Because in this article phil from Apple tried to slam chromebook as useless.
On the contrary the pixelbook is an amazing machine that would be perfect for many who have used Mac computers before.
in fact it reminds me of Apple computers from around 2008 when they were lightning fast and less full of a bloated os.

he slammed them for being insufficient for certain creative aspects, which they are worse at than the mac. He has a bone to pick, and he's right in that sense. Also, the privacy you give up to google is freaking terrible. But, for school use, he's wrong. the basic uses of Chrome are great for that, and Apple isn't willing to compete in that space. But if you price up their newest Chromebook to have matching specs, a MacBook air is a much more capable machine for creative individuals. Also, a $650 dollar Chromebook compared to the 2015 13 inch MacBook pro I bought this summer for the same price... the Chromebook comes out as a loser compared to my "old machine" in every category.

 

[slashlos]

I type for a living; no ESC key, no purchase. Period. Tough lesson to learn. Touch bar? eh? maybe when Adobe comes off the sub$ horse and it makes it useful, maybe. Solution in search of a problem?

 

[throAU]

I should have bought 2 laptops since my last one (2010) by now, but the keyboard nightmares have kept me away. Now I'm not even sure I need a laptop anymore, iPad Pro seems to be doing everything I really need at home.

So much this.

My 2015 Retina 13" is in pretty much perfect condition. It just needs more CPU and more RAM. But i have held off replacing it because of the keyboard. I will not buy a butterfly keyboard until the design has been proven to reliably last for more than a couple of years without breaking the way the previous ones have.

I'm guessing this scissor keyboard is going to be another "forced up-sell" to get people to pay near on 4k australian for a laptop in a form factor they don't necessarily want, purely because they want a keyboard that works. Sorry, not happening.

 

[code-m]

Because in this article phil from Apple tried to slam chromebook as useless.
On the contrary the pixelbook is an amazing machine that would be perfect for many who have used Mac computers before.
in fact it reminds me of Apple computers from around 2008 when they were lightning fast and less full of a bloated os.

ChromeOS had its limitations and has improved since its early days, Phil is a company man he is comparing present day iOS/iPadOS products with the early days of ChromeOS it is being disingenuous and this is not the first or last time he has made such claims regarding other technology.

I suspect Apple dropped the MB released the rMBA as the MB will have an ARM chip that will compete directly with ChromeOS and will be based off iPadOS or macOS ARM. There is a reason why Apple opened the door for iOS/iPadOS apps to be easily ported to macOS.

I would not pay attention to his double-talk, it usually confirms Apple will release a competing product. hopefully 2020/21 ARM MB with macOS.

iPad Pro is just a weird product, it should just be fused with this ARM MB with macOS.

 

[pawxpaw]

he slammed them for being insufficient for certain creative aspects, which they are worse at than the mac. He has a bone to pick, and he's right in that sense. Also, the privacy you give up to google is freaking terrible. But, for school use, he's wrong. the basic uses of Chrome are great for that, and Apple isn't willing to compete in that space. But if you price up their newest Chromebook to have matching specs, a MacBook air is a much more capable machine for creative individuals. Also, a $650 dollar Chromebook compared to the 2015 13 inch MacBook pro I bought this summer for the same price... the Chromebook comes out as a loser compared to my "old machine" in every category.

sure but most people aren't "creative", they are doing basic day to day tasks. and in that respect my pixelbook go kills any MacBook ive owned since my 2010. 2015 was ok, but the screen got multiple dead pixels in the centre. the machine was replaced twice before i got tired of it and went back to my 2010 that still works perfectly today. 2019 MBP was the worst computer i've owned.
the pixelbook go keyboard is what apple can only dream of. and at less than half the price of the entry model mbp the value is even better.

the new MacBook air is a joke and is borderline fraud to sell that heap to customers. most would rather a computer not overheat and have a failing keyboard from day 1.

i personally have always bought MacBook pros not because i necessarily needed the power, but because i wanted a machine that would still be fast for many years.
sure the chromeos won't work for everyone, but it would work for most people just fine. most people aren't video editing, or coding. they are emailing their grandma, watching netflix and writing word documents. for most students up to graduate level i'd say a chromebook is perfect. i know for me having gone back to university again it is great. most universities have everything web based these days anyway.

 

[s66]

x

 

[macduke]

I still don’t know anyone who uses the TouchBar and I know a lot of professional users. It has always seemed like a gimmick to me.

As for myself, I’m not upgrading yet. I mainly use my iMac with a powerful i9-9900K and an iPad Pro, but I’d be interested if they added WiFi 6, Face ID with a better camera, USB 4.0, Thunderbolt 4 80 Gbps, and a custom powerhouse Apple ARM CPU/GPU that has better performance and more battery life that will be supported for longer than legacy Intel chips. The new RAM and SSD options are welcome, but pricey as usual. I can’t imagine having 8TB the in a MBP. Would be nice so I don’t have to carry around Samsung T5 SSDs to keep my catalogs on.

I think the sweet spot on this thing for me, if I was buying, would be the base 8-core i9, 32GB RAM, the 8GB VRAM upgrade, and maybe the 2TB SSD. Though at 2TB it’s not really that different from 1TB in that I’d need to still have some external drives to work from, so I might just go for 1TB at this point. With 512GB I’m often running low on space just working with project files I’ll copy over and the apps, Dropbox synced docs and OS. The 2TB SSD on my iMac has been quite comfortable and I don’t mind leaving a bunch of drives plugged in since it’s a desktop, but honestly 1TB would be fine as I use a decent chunk of my iMac drive as a Windows boot camp partition to play games. My iMac Pro at work is only 1TB and it is fine for most tasks.

 

[Brien]

Looks like the butterfly will continue to be used in some machines.

They won’t Osborne themselves, trust me they’ll phase them out over time.

 

[r98266]

The number one complaint about the Touch Bar must be the Touch Bar...
At least the are making minor adjustments, really happy about that! But make it optional “upgrade” and see how many people choose it”. And yes MagSafe and HDMI would be nice too.

I won’t buy a MacBook again until Touch Bar is gone. Horrible user experience. Last one I purchased was the 2012 Retina. Just got a Razer Blade 15 to replace it.

 

[wigby]

There's nothing innovative about fixing a miserable screw up that they tried casting as innovation. There is nothing innovative about fixing a keyboard that is literally the most important input device on a laptop.

We know. That's why Philler quipped and didn't make a serious statement. It was a joke.

 

[Jcxa]

Sorry, I'm scratching my head here, Improvements: Keyboard; ESC key; Slightly bigger screen, battery, and base ram. This just does not square with all the drama. There was no reason to drag this release out. Notice that this release was a rather ho-hum press release, not the extravaganza of the WWDC or the Iphone dog and pony show in September. For me, it underscores how minor this 'redesign' is.

 

[DVD Plaza]

He is completely 100% wrong about Chromebooks in the classroom. He said the iPad works better. OK, just try and write an essay on an iPad. The glass keyboard is not that good. Maybe for very young kids who don't do much reading and writing. You need a real keyboard for real work

Finally, my experience is with high school students but if you ask students to do something on a Chromebook they can gt the right to work. But they are not nearly as productive on iPads

I am an ICT Manager for a school too, but R-12. The middle and senior students absolutely cannot get by with anything but a notebook, they need a full powered computer and keyboard.

Junior/primary students though (R-6) are all iPad and to be honest they struggle with the transition to a notebook in year 7, because they have for years now lived and breathed touchscreen iPads. They do magical stuff on these devices and actually find the concept of a physical keyboard, and even trackpad/mouse, bizarre.

I honestly don't know how long Apple can hold off with touchscreen Macs - I can't stand touchscreen computers myself, if people b#tch and moan about having to reach for a touchbar at the top of their keyboard it's utterly rediculous they think it is okay to completely move away from the keyboard to reach right up to the screen. However, working with kids I can tell you that you can't fight change... when the next few generations come through everything will need to be touchscreen as they just look at anything else like it is an old cassette tape or record player, physical switches and knobs and keys on anything from a computer to a dishwasher is just ancient to them.

 

[turbineseaplane]

if people b#tch and moan about having to reach for a touchbar at the top of their keyboard it's utterly rediculous they think it is okay to completely move away from the keyboard to reach right up to the screen.

I don't see the connection.
The screen is something I'm looking at anyhow. I'm more than happy to reach out and touch there.

My issue with the TouchBar is that it's on the plane I'm not looking at and am operating by feel/muscle memory, but with the TB you *have* to look down and move your hands and do something.

The TouchBar is a ridiculous half measure in my opinion.
They're just so damned stubborn about the touchscreen thing - it's ludicrous.

This is the same company that has their iPads propped up at Apple Stores with keyboard cases...so there, for some reason, it's ok to use a keyboard down below but all the interactions are with touch, on the screen itself, with your arm reaching out to touch the screen.

Apple needs to get out of its own damned way here.

 

[IPPlanMan]

Probably due to the fact these products are signed off for when they will be ready two or three quarters prior to release, and weighed against WiFi 6 in the iPhone vs. WiFi 6 in a year end laptop they most likely weren't going to modify their constraints that they agreed to 12 months ago to appease our wishes.

Not sure I understand why WiFi 6 made it into the iPhone and not into a MacBook Pro. Both are signed off on well ahead of time, and the release date for this MacBook Pro is 2 months after the release of the iPhone which has it. As for the 720P FaceTime camera, it’s simply inexcusable. There’s no way to justify it.

 

[alexandr]

Apple is stubborn and does not like to reverse course, they do at times with the scissor mech KB, maybe that had to do with some former employees de Didi on maybe not. One can only hope that Apple is finally regaining its senses and incorporating some of the suggestions it’s user base has been asking.

No company wants to make an unreliable computer that costs them money on warranty repairs or law suits, I believe Apple was floating too high on its own success and forgot the user base that supported them.

We put up with a lot of questionable decisions, some understandable others just bizarre.

i agree! hopefully they will revisit the router market idea. they were the best...

 

[bluespark]

The 13" and Air are still on sale. Next year they will probably update it to 14" and the scissor keyboard.

Instant buy from me if they do.

 

[Tech198]

Jesus Phil

"Chromebooks have gotten to the classroom because, frankly, they're cheap testing tools for required testing. If all you want to do is test kids, well, maybe a cheap notebook will do that. But they're not going to succeed."

Apple knows how to fluff the media. and only make themselves look better than they can see.

There must be an awful lot of kids then they don't grow up without a proper education, because they are "test subjects'

Time to revamp Apples slogan "Think different" its affecting too many employees.

 

[Bawstun]

“Defective“ is ridiculous and quite the reach, but unsurprising from you as you’ve continued to be wrong about Apple.

Wrong is subjective. I didn’t even bother posting in their latest earnings report because of how padded and skewed the results were. I don’t feel some unrelenting desire to bash Apple at every opportunity. Their iPhone business is tanking and sales show it, I don’t care how carefully worded the earnings statements are. Apple is doing fine ... for now.

 

[mikethemartian]

Average users don’t fiddle around with their tech and computers are basically nothing like cars. Tires are also nothing like RAM and the most you can really do is change tire brands...you can’t even change size without other mods and the manufacturer will basically telling you that you’re on your own If you go away from OEM.

What fiddling? My old 2008 MBP only took five minutes to swap out the RAM. Maybe 15 if you had never done it before and had to read the instructions. A lot faster and easier than having to take the machine to an Apple store and talk to a Genius.

 

[fairuz]

Many of us would also like to see MagSafe rise from the dead as well🙂

Nah, that stopped working well when laptops became so light that the magnet had to be virtually powerless for it to provide the safety it's meant for. I keep knocking it out of my 2015 MBP while it's charging just by moving slightly, and the only thing I want USB-C for is charging.
[automerge]1573706939[/automerge]
What bothers me way more than the escape key is the volume controls on the 2016 model I use at work. You either deal with the slider or turn the touchbar into function keys and still have to deal with waking the touchbar up then pressing buttons, usually having to retry cause it sucks at registering presses. Cmon, it was perfectly fine with buttons.

One great and oddly unique thing about Macs has always been that you can instantly change the volume without fudging with some UI or modifier keys... until this. Matters especially when you're accidentally blasting music at work and want to mute it instantly.

 

[Tech198]

Nah, that stopped working well when laptops became so light that the magnet had to be virtually powerless for it to provide the safety it's meant for. I keep knocking it out of my laptop while it's charging just by moving slightly.

My MBA 2017 was worse than the old MBA because they use less "pull power'. Just a a tiny bit of resisence and they come off, even to the point it doesn't even hurt the cable over time.. Apple just thinks it does.

There is something that i used previously. http://www.snuglet.com/

Not cheap, but worth the price.

Personally, i reckon the reason Apple made the "pull" less resistance not because they couldn't fit it in newer Mac,but because they wanted to cut back costs on the cable.

 

[HiRez]

This really looks like a great machine. Love the physical Esc key and inverted T arrow keys. And the pricing for upgrades is pretty reasonable especially the extra 1 TB SSD for +$400. Only concerns are battery life and fan noise (and the 720p webcam isn't great but not something I use much).

 

[fairuz]

My MBA 2017 was worse than the old MBA because they use less "pull power'. Just a a tiny bit of resisence and they come off, even to the point it doesn't even hurt the cable over time.. Apple just thinks it does.

There is something that i used previously. http://www.snuglet.com/

Not cheap, but worth the price.

Personally, i reckon the reason Apple made the "pull" less resistance not because they couldn't fit it in newer Mac,but because they wanted to cut back costs on the cable.

I was suggesting that the newer laptops are lighter, meaning a higher pull resistance will actually be enough to pull the laptop off a table. It seems like the old "Magsafe 1" cables would be strong enough to do that.
[automerge]1573707491[/automerge]

I won’t buy a MacBook again until Touch Bar is gone. Horrible user experience. Last one I purchased was the 2012 Retina. Just got a Razer Blade 15 to replace it.

They still sell new MacBooks without the touchbar, don't they?

 

[Baymowe335]

Wrong is subjective. I didn’t even bother posting in their latest earnings report because of how padded and skewed the results were. I don’t feel some unrelenting desire to bash Apple at every opportunity. Their iPhone business is tanking and sales show it, I don’t care how carefully worded the earnings statements are. Apple is doing fine ... for now.

Wrong is empirical. The evidence and market proved you wrong, emphatically.

Haha, “for now” were your famous last words when they traded at $175. At $265, I suppose predicting doom is all you have.

The market sees the iPhone business decline slowing and other businesses accelerating. iPad, services and 52% wearables growth are new drivers. The numbers are the numbers...record Q4 revenue despite contraction in iPhone shows the strength of the other businesses. iPhone decline slowed dramatically and the guidance shows Apple is confident for Q1.

With the new Mac Pro, you’re going to see Mac growth too.

You also can’t stop the buyback and record active devices In use.
[automerge]1573708333[/automerge]

What fiddling? My old 2008 MBP only took five minutes to swap out the RAM. Maybe 15 if you had never done it before and had to read the instructions. A lot faster and easier than having to take the machine to an Apple store and talk to a Genius.

You’re still in a dramatic minority doing memory swaps.