hummm.... should i spend hundreds of dollars on software to support billion dollar corporations; that I can get for free. Or should I use that money to give to the charity of my choice?
http://www.networkforgood.org/index.html
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Piracy and Mac OS X
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hummm.... should i spend hundreds of dollars on software to support billion dollar corporations; that I can get for free. Or should I use that money to give to the charity of my choice?
http://www.networkforgood.org/index.html
alex_ant
macrumors 68020
Pirating the software is a separate act. You can donate to charity without spending whatever on software made by whatever corporations and WITHOUT pirating said software. It comes down to either buying said software or donating to charity. If you donate to charity instead of buying the software, pirating the software is a separate decision that is still illegal and by most accounts immoral.
I take it you're not going to continue the other facets of your argument you established? Specifically, worker exploitation, price gouging, soul theft and corporations being (I assume, based upon our wording) progressively more evil the more they are worth? Because I was anxious to hear you expand on those and draw them out into rational territory.
[Really. Please explain how workers who voluntarily choose to work for Apple and are free to leave at any time are being exploited.
QUOTE]
since you are oblivious to the facts of corporate exploitation in america, I suggest you talk a look at this pamphlet about conditions for ordinary workers in silicon valley.
http://www.igc.org/dbacon/Unions/04hitec1.htm
and specifcally; Quote from page 5 about your "darling" Apple:
According to Garcia, understanding the position of immigrant workers was an important part of the successful campaign at Shine and Apple. "Apple spends a lot of money on its image," he explained, "and our strategy attacked it. We helped people to understand that the company was exploiting immigrant janitors, and we forced Apple to take responsibility - we told Apple 'it's your system - you control the contractors; you're causing the exploitation."
http://www.igc.org/dbacon/Unions/04hitec5.htm
QUOTE]
since you are oblivious to the facts of corporate exploitation in america, I suggest you talk a look at this pamphlet about conditions for ordinary workers in silicon valley.
http://www.igc.org/dbacon/Unions/04hitec1.htm
and specifcally; Quote from page 5 about your "darling" Apple:
According to Garcia, understanding the position of immigrant workers was an important part of the successful campaign at Shine and Apple. "Apple spends a lot of money on its image," he explained, "and our strategy attacked it. We helped people to understand that the company was exploiting immigrant janitors, and we forced Apple to take responsibility - we told Apple 'it's your system - you control the contractors; you're causing the exploitation."
http://www.igc.org/dbacon/Unions/04hitec5.htm
peterjhill
macrumors 65816
Re: ok, picture this scenario
Go to Kinko's, they have legal copies of pagemaker. Since you do not own it, feel free to actually pay to "rent" the usage of it in a perfectly legal manner. Otherwise, by Pagemaker.
Go to Kinko's, they have legal copies of pagemaker. Since you do not own it, feel free to actually pay to "rent" the usage of it in a perfectly legal manner. Otherwise, by Pagemaker.
Rower_CPU
Moderator emeritus
Re: oh please...
I know this situation didn't happen. I was pointing out that your argument was based on poor reasoning to begin with.
Have you ever heard of the "straw man" principle/argument? It is a debate technique in which one of the debaters creates a fictitious example that he knows he can easily defeat (knock down) and thus bolster his argument. Your example was one such "straw man"...I simply put a match to it before you could knock it down.
I know this situation didn't happen. I was pointing out that your argument was based on poor reasoning to begin with.
Have you ever heard of the "straw man" principle/argument? It is a debate technique in which one of the debaters creates a fictitious example that he knows he can easily defeat (knock down) and thus bolster his argument. Your example was one such "straw man"...I simply put a match to it before you could knock it down.
wow. I do believe chuckzee has come armed with some info.
I like. I like.
though this is comparing apples and oranges--no?
we can't all sweep in as the crusaders for the exploited and pirate software for our own benefit and convince ourselves we're helping others. this wasn't the exact train of thought, but it is skirting dangerously close to two very different issues.
You dont know shiat about what I do or dont do with my money...
Unlike people like you, who have "plenty of money ", most people dont, and refuse to give what little they have away unnecessarily.
peterjhill
macrumors 65816
Rower_CPU
Moderator emeritus
Wow, you mean the janitors that are being paid minimum wage are the ones writing the code that you're stealing......you heartless SOB.😉
That article squarely points out that the contracting companies were using illegal labor, and then tried to fire them once they organized. You're blaming Apple for using a resource provided by another company.
It looks to me like this article points out that Garcia used bullying tactics, threatening to mar Apple's image in order to get his way. Nice example...way to show how "good" and "right" that campaign is.🙄
Once again, the "two wrongs make a right" argument is played out. If that's the best you can do, please move on.
As for giving your money to a charity... Bill Gates is the BIGGEST SINGLE PHILANTHROPIST in the world!
Bill "jesus christ" Gates giving $100,000,000 to chairity, (which i'm sure is someway involved in the propagation of windows, or some other selfish rite..) is like me donating 5 bucks. I dont hear nor want to hear anyone sing my praises (i would be embarrassed)
Bill "jesus christ" Gates giving $100,000,000 to chairity, (which i'm sure is someway involved in the propagation of windows, or some other selfish rite..) is like me donating 5 bucks. I dont hear nor want to hear anyone sing my praises (i would be embarrassed)
So that they can clear invetory, take it off their taxes, and sell millions of dollars in upgrades to OS 10.2
alex_ant
macrumors 68020
Let's assume Apple is as bad as Nike from the standpoint of "worker exploitation." (Which I would find very surprising.) Let's assume Apple is holding its janitors as slaves, feeding them bread and water, and torturing them when they don't work fast enough.
Here are just some of the many things you would have a legal and moral right to do in response to such a situation:
1) Not buy Apple products.
2) Organize a boycott of Apple products.
3) Report Apple to the authorities and get them busted for illegal labor practices.
4) Help form an Apple worker's union.
And here is one thing you would not have a legal or moral right to do in such a situation:
1) Pirate Apple's software.
Two wrongs don't make a right. Crime A does not beget crime B. Didn't your mother ever teach you that?
I'm still waiting for your explanations of why there would be price gouging in absence of piracy, how one's soul is being sold upon a software purchase, and how corporations are more evil the more they are worth. Your arguments have so far been nonsensical, but certainly chock full of entertainment value.
1) the **** they apple is forcing us to buy (they will force us, because they did it with 10.1 with new software) is what they should be calling the final release. The crap they have forced on us in the past has been barely beta worthy.
2) I have been a big supporter of apple through all of this. I have argued and gone through a lot defending them. But now they have pulled an MS/Big Business ploy and is forcing you to upgrade, **** them.
3) To probably use 90% of the software coming out in september or later you will have to upgrade, so to keep your mac up to date you will have to pay for the os.
4) They make money on the hardware, they should have the decency to keep upping their os to make their hardware sales go up, not ****ING SHAFT their past loyal users.
5) Upgrades in the decimals should be free. 10.0 - 10.9.9.9_ should not cost a dime. I was mad when adobe charged for 5.5, I hated that MS charged for 9x - ME, this is bad business practice and all of you are simply supporting it.
6) Forget me selling my dual 800, it's almost paid for and once it is it's getting smashed, forget selling it so Apple, oh so good compnay who cares for it's customers can reap another soul.
7) I will be looking at replacing the 100+ macs at my work with linux boxes.
8) the sole purpose of copyright was so that a person could not lay CLAIM to your work. Theoretically, if I do not steal any material objects from apple, and do not make money off of their intellectual property, I am theoretically am clear of charges. The problem is that lobbyist have had that changed. Soon, you won't be able to copy your movies, rip your cd's for back ups, or even lend many media types to your friends because these laws will soon be trickled down to apply to all intellectual properties.
Good work Uncle Steve. You killed NEXT, and you're killing Apple.
2) I have been a big supporter of apple through all of this. I have argued and gone through a lot defending them. But now they have pulled an MS/Big Business ploy and is forcing you to upgrade, **** them.
3) To probably use 90% of the software coming out in september or later you will have to upgrade, so to keep your mac up to date you will have to pay for the os.
4) They make money on the hardware, they should have the decency to keep upping their os to make their hardware sales go up, not ****ING SHAFT their past loyal users.
5) Upgrades in the decimals should be free. 10.0 - 10.9.9.9_ should not cost a dime. I was mad when adobe charged for 5.5, I hated that MS charged for 9x - ME, this is bad business practice and all of you are simply supporting it.
6) Forget me selling my dual 800, it's almost paid for and once it is it's getting smashed, forget selling it so Apple, oh so good compnay who cares for it's customers can reap another soul.
7) I will be looking at replacing the 100+ macs at my work with linux boxes.
8) the sole purpose of copyright was so that a person could not lay CLAIM to your work. Theoretically, if I do not steal any material objects from apple, and do not make money off of their intellectual property, I am theoretically am clear of charges. The problem is that lobbyist have had that changed. Soon, you won't be able to copy your movies, rip your cd's for back ups, or even lend many media types to your friends because these laws will soon be trickled down to apply to all intellectual properties.
Good work Uncle Steve. You killed NEXT, and you're killing Apple.
Is it morally right to give artificially created entities; (corporations) the same rights as human beings? Besides, no one can prove that piracy is morally wrong. The only argument I hear (not convincing, btw) is that if you do that, you will prevent people from making money?!
Since when is preventing people (corporations) from making money morally wrong?!
alex_ant
macrumors 68020
Who cares WHY they do it? They do it, don't they? Isn't that the whole point of charities? I didn't think charities existed so that we could measure our wholesomeness and integrity by supplying the reasons for our donations. I thought they existed because they were worthy causes that needed money, plain and simple?
I'm not a blind Apple loyalist by the way, but a no-strings-attached donation of $$$$$$ to a charity is a good and decent move by ANY company or ANY individual. It doesn't matter WHY they do it. It's the act that means everything. Some people (not usually corporations) actually donate anonymously in realization of this. Whoa.
Rower_CPU
Moderator emeritus
No, you don't prevent the corporation from making money...you take it away from the people who create the software.
Do you think that major corporation's software are the only one's being pirated? Get real! The small developers suffer worst of all when people disregard paying for software.
Get a clue. This isn't about sticking it to "The Man". It's about breaking the law.
Breaking the laws that protect major corps and shaft the working man.
Sadly little developers (who I buy as much software as I can from) get shafted due to the abusive practives of the large corps.
Sadly little developers (who I buy as much software as I can from) get shafted due to the abusive practives of the large corps.
Put it this way, if they did this crap in the car market...
They would change standards every 2 years
Make it where you couldn't use your car after 3 years
make incrmental changes on the driving abilities of the car every 6 months and you have to pay for it to keep your car up and running and have it able to run on the street.
Get a clue, this isn't about breaking the law, it's about the laws allowing bad business.
They would change standards every 2 years
Make it where you couldn't use your car after 3 years
make incrmental changes on the driving abilities of the car every 6 months and you have to pay for it to keep your car up and running and have it able to run on the street.
Get a clue, this isn't about breaking the law, it's about the laws allowing bad business.
alex_ant
macrumors 68020
Well, that's a whole different debate, isn't it? One that has nothing to do with software piracy.
Morality is not something you can "prove." It differs from person to person, and is often stood atop different foundations. For some these foundations may be logical - e.g. "Piracy is morally wrong because it is an exchange of goods or services agreed to by only one party." For some they may be religious - e.g. "Piracy is wrong because it violates the Ten Commandments." For some they may be philosophical - e.g. "Piracy is wrong because it is a violation of the law."
What these foundations and the somewhat differing senses of morality they support have in common are the almost universal conclusion that piracy is wrong. For one thing, it's illegal. For another, it involves taking the fruit of someone else's labor without compensation. (This someone could be either a company or an individual.)
Even if you happen to disagree that piracy is morally wrong, you can still agree that it is illegal. You are free to fight whatever nebulous construct you're fighting by continuing to pirate software at your own peril, but the legal and ethical thing to do would be to do STOP pirating software, and go about this process in a more civilized fashion. If you feel that software piracy should be legal, you are free to go about the process of enacting this change via legal and ethical means.
Am I saying, "STOP PIRATING SOFTWARE IMMEDIATELY!"? No. I'm merely pointing out that piracy is wrong. Feel free to go mad on Carracho to your heart's content. But please do realize that what you are doing is wrong, even if you don't like the companies which produce the software you steal.
It's not. You're free to simply not pay corporations any money whatsoever. But you are not free to use their software without paying for it - to do so would be illegal and, by most accounts, morally wrong. Certainly ethically wrong.
Alex
alex_ant
macrumors 68020
I agree. But pirating software is not the right way to go about resolving this problem.
Instead of saying,
"I don't like your business practices, so I'm gonna steal yer stuff,"
It would be smarter, much more effective, and more lawful to say,
"I don't like your business practices, so I'm gonna call my representatives and get some people together who will fight you on this."
AlphaTech
macrumors 601
They are NOT forcing you to buy anything, you CHOSE to purchase Apple computers to use. You also agreed to the software license agreement when you installed any software, as well as any OS. You get the OS with the computer initially, and then IF you DECIDE to update, you do so.
Nobody is holding a gun to your head and telling you to puchase it or else 🙄
That all depends on the other companies writing the software. I would find it very difficult to believe that m$ will drop IE support for any older Mac OS (version 9 and newer). Just as I don't believe that Adobe will stop supporting OS X 10.1 with their products. Get a clue Bubba. 🙄
You have to be on some hefty reality bending drugs there. Apple has never had free updates to go from one full decimal version to another. Were you able to go from 8.0 to 9.0 for free?? 😛 twit BTW, IF you bothered to take the time to look, you would find that you CAN go from 9.0.x to 9.2.2 for free, all via downloads. You still have to have OS 9.0.x installed though.
Bubba, you are one DUMB ****er... Donate your dual 800, smashing it is just ****ing stupid (got it Stimpy?). 🙄
Unless you are the head of the company you work for, or the head of IT good luck in getting the company to shell out XX thousands of dollars for systems that might work. Linux is NOT known for great hardware integration. You are at the mercy of the component makers to provide good drivers for the software. While it could be stable, once it is all setup, it will cost you even more money. I say more, because you WILL have to purchase all new versions of your software to run on Linux, unless you intend to STEAL that too. 🙄 twit
I guess you never bothered to read the end user agreement with the software... IF you bothered, you would see that it does follow copyright law. Just as the copyright laws prevent you from taking a movie, pulling sections from it and claiming it as your own.
Jobs pulled Apple back from the brink. While not all of us will agree with what a company does all of the time, I still feel that he will not drive it into the ground, or kill it. 🙄
Well, a)
you're an idiot.
B) where I work we have deals with Redhat and SuSE and oh no we get it for free. Also we work with DELL and IBM, and we get servers and solid desktops for great prices. We can get solid p4 boxes running redhat for a FRACTION of we pay for our macs.
We have linux guru's on our staff due to our oracle databases we run. Oh my, and expanding them to desktops would be fine. Brilliant people on staff.
And smashing it will be fun. Like I said, i would rather not donate it because I wouldn't want apple to do this crap to everyone else and forcing them to go to use a buggy beta software.
Also, apple is slowly loosing it's majesty it had. Steve saved it with some cool ideas and he is going to ruin with his Ego as usual.
And, yes, I do heavily influence our technology purchases through out the business. I am one out of 4 people who have kept the macs, and we are all weary of apple.
So before you go calling people names you need to ask. you **** 😱
you're an idiot.
B) where I work we have deals with Redhat and SuSE and oh no we get it for free. Also we work with DELL and IBM, and we get servers and solid desktops for great prices. We can get solid p4 boxes running redhat for a FRACTION of we pay for our macs.
We have linux guru's on our staff due to our oracle databases we run. Oh my, and expanding them to desktops would be fine. Brilliant people on staff.
And smashing it will be fun. Like I said, i would rather not donate it because I wouldn't want apple to do this crap to everyone else and forcing them to go to use a buggy beta software.
Also, apple is slowly loosing it's majesty it had. Steve saved it with some cool ideas and he is going to ruin with his Ego as usual.
And, yes, I do heavily influence our technology purchases through out the business. I am one out of 4 people who have kept the macs, and we are all weary of apple.
So before you go calling people names you need to ask. you **** 😱