Piracy and Mac OS X

[chuckzee]

Why is it ok if companies such as Kinko’s, make tons money off of the USE of software which is not theirs, (Photoshop, Qwark etc..)--and no one blinks an eye, or creates a stink about how they should share a percentage of the revenue with the developers who are being shafted by not having people forced to buy their software?

And If I was to pirate Photoshop and GIVE it away or God Forbid, sell it for a tiny sum, all hell would break loose!

 

[alex_ant]

GPTurismo, good buddy, can I have it? I'll pay shipping, and I'll promise not to run any Apple software on it. 😀

 

[alex_ant]

Originally posted by chuckzee
Why is it ok if companies such as Kinko’s, make tons money off of the USE of software which is not theirs, (Photoshop, Qwark etc..)--and no one blinks an eye, or creates a stink about how they should share a percentage of the revenue with the developers who are being shafted by not having people forced to buy their software?

Do they? I don't know. Kinko's and software companies have agreed on their own terms which allow Kinko's to do this. The difference between this situation with Kinko's and you pirating software is that Kinko's has reached an agreement with the software companies to whose terms both parties have agreed, whereas you haven't.

And If I was to pirate Photoshop and GIVE it away or God Forbid, sell it for a tiny sum, all hell would break loose!

No, you'd only be breaking the law. Probably nobody would even notice. But you'd still be breaking the law.

 

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by chuckzee
Why is it ok if companies such as Kinko’s, make tons money off of the USE of software which is not theirs, (Photoshop, Qwark etc..)--and no one blinks an eye, or creates a stink about how they should share a percentage of the revenue with the developers who are being shafted by not having people forced to buy their software?

And If I was to pirate Photoshop and GIVE it away or God Forbid, sell it for a tiny sum, all hell would break loose!

Stimpy, Kinko's has purchased LICENSES for those applications to run them on XX number of computers. The same as we do at the company I work for. We have corporate level licenses for office as well as windows. We also have specific license counts, per site, for Illustrator, PhotoShop, Quark, and other applications (like BBEdit). BECAUSE we have such good relationships with those companies, we DO get better then retail prices for the software/license count.

Giving away a copy, provided that is the ONLY copy, and you completely remove it from your system(s) is not a violation of the EUA. Selling it (for ANY amount of money) IS a violation of the EUA. Not to mention that theft and selling of the software is even worse then just giving it away (and keeping a copy for yourself).

 

[GPTurismo]

They are NOT forcing you to buy anything, you CHOSE to purchase Apple computers to use. You also agreed to the software license agreement when you installed any software, as well as any OS. You get the OS with the computer initially, and then IF you DECIDE to update, you do so.

Well, thats whats wrong with computers you fool. Also, if I want to get any newer software, oh look I have to upgrade. Most new apps coming out at the end of the year will require 10.2, just as it happened with 10.1

Nobody is holding a gun to your head and telling you to puchase it or else 🙄

twit yourself indeed.

That all depends on the other companies writing the software. I would find it very difficult to believe that m$ will drop IE support for any older Mac OS (version 9 and newer). Just as I don't believe that Adobe will stop supporting OS X 10.1 with their products. Get a clue Bubba. 🙄

Well. I remember how office required 10.1, and i know some newer apps will require it. So I have an outdated piece of **** already. Also, IE can drop from macs at any moment.

You have to be on some hefty reality bending drugs there. Apple has never had free updates to go from one full decimal version to another. Were you able to go from 8.0 to 9.0 for free?? 😛 twit BTW, IF you bothered to take the time to look, you would find that you CAN go from 9.0.x to 9.2.2 for free, all via downloads. You still have to have OS 9.0.x installed though.

Which is what's wrong with the industry. I complained about it then, I complain about it now. It needs to be something spectacular to change it.

A) not be what they promised 2 years ago
B) fix things they should have fixed in the first damn place. MULTI THREADING IN THE FINDER PLEASE?


Bubba, you are one DUMB ****er... Donate your dual 800, smashing it is just ****ing stupid (got it Stimpy?). 🙄

Like I said, I would rather rip out the decent compents and give someone a linux box with open office and a few other open source free apps before I gave them an item which would be out dated and force them to dump money into it.

Unless you are the head of the company you work for, or the head of IT good luck in getting the company to shell out XX thousands of dollars for systems that might work. Linux is NOT known for great hardware integration. You are at the mercy of the component makers to provide good drivers for the software. While it could be stable, once it is all setup, it will cost you even more money. I say more, because you WILL have to purchase all new versions of your software to run on Linux, unless you intend to STEAL that too. 🙄 twit

Read above post please.

I guess you never bothered to read the end user agreement with the software... IF you bothered, you would see that it does follow copyright law. Just as the copyright laws prevent you from taking a movie, pulling sections from it and claiming it as your own.

Eula's don't hold in court thank you. You need a digital signature or a real life signature.

Jobs pulled Apple back from the brink. While not all of us will agree with what a company does all of the time, I still feel that he will not drive it into the ground, or kill it. 🙄

He won't drive it into the ground. He might even stabalize it. But he sure has alienated a lot of older mac fanatics. Espeically the SMART ONES.

Quite a few of my friends that work for larger tech corps all use to love apple, now they feel the same as I do.

I wonder why?

 

[GPTurismo]

Kinko's purchases site licenses, which are fading away as we speak...

LOL

 

[chuckzee]

Originally posted by GPTurismo
Kinko's purchases site licenses, which are fading away as we speak...

LOL

Well, I guess you are right, Someone,(apple,adobe,whoever.) does give a shait about maximizing profits. And shafting everyone else.


I have a powermac 9600/350(which apple made sure osx wouldn't run WELL on it), which runs Mandrake Linux,without so much as a hiccup. And when apple goes to hell with microsoft; my G4 will also be converted to open source.[

 

[GPTurismo]

LOL.

we can get os x to run on that 9600, either with a g4 upgrade or just with that 604e, ecen though it might be slow.

 

[chuckzee]

Originally posted by GPTurismo
LOL.

we can get os x to run on that 9600, either with a g4 upgrade or just with that 604e, ecen though it might be slow.

yeah, i tried it with the 604e, but it was painfully slow and buggy. But i guess 10.2 will be faster? 😀

 

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by chuckzee
yeah, i tried it with the 604e, but it was painfully slow and buggy. But i guess 10.2 will be faster? 😀

Yes, it will.

Still want to complain about the price?

 

[GPTurismo]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU


Yes, it will.

Still want to complain about the price?

actually it won't be.

It's required is a 400 g3 compaired to the 233 of mac os 10.1...

Also, this all started because spymac, an unreliable source, said that they were going to do something which apple probably won't do 😛

Don't get me wrong, I love apple products, I don' tlike some of the things they are doing business wise...

 

[peterjhill]

Originally posted by chuckzee

So that they can clear invetory, take it off their taxes, and sell millions of dollars in upgrades to OS 10.2

Apple just donated something like 100-200 brand new iMacs to the University where I work.

As for:

Bill "jesus christ" Gates giving $100,000,000 to chairity, (which i'm sure is someway involved in the propagation of windows, or some other selfish rite..) is like me donating 5 bucks. I dont hear nor want to hear anyone sing my praises (i would be embarrassed)

Even if it does involve windows computers sitting in front of more people, I would rather a child have a PC sitting in front of them, then nothing at all. I may not like Windows, but if it improves a childs education, allowing them to empower themselves to break out of the poverty cycle, that is good enough for me.

If that is the best comeback you have to my comments, then you really do need to stay out of the debating business.

 

[peterjhill]

Originally posted by GPTurismo
1) the **** they apple is forcing us to buy (they will force us, because they did it with 10.1 with new software) is what they should be calling the final release. The crap they have forced on us in the past has been barely beta worthy.

All the current software that runs on 10.1.5 will continue to run. Bug fixes should be free (IMHO), but there is nothing wrong for charging for new features. If the new features are worth it for you, don't upgrade. I doubt that developers are stupid enough to make their new software only work for 10.2 (only time will tell), unless 10.2 provides a new feature that is critical to the application.

2) I have been a big supporter of apple through all of this. I have argued and gone through a lot defending them. But now they have pulled an MS/Big Business ploy and is forcing you to upgrade, **** them.

NEWSFLASH: Apple Computer representatives are holding a gun to GPTurismo's head, threating to kill him unless he buys a copy of 10.2 for every Mac he has ever purchased!

Give me a friggin break!

3) To probably use 90% of the software coming out in september or later you will have to upgrade, so to keep your mac up to date you will have to pay for the os.

See Above

4) They make money on the hardware, they should have the decency to keep upping their os to make their hardware sales go up, not ****ING SHAFT their past loyal users.

In case you didn't realize, that unlike most other consumer computer HARDWARE manufacturers, Apple computer also makes SOFTWARE. It isn't any cheaper to design new hardware, than to write new software. Apple has been pretty good at maintaining the same prices for their computers while coming out with faster hardware.

5) Upgrades in the decimals should be free. 10.0 - 10.9.9.9_ should not cost a dime. I was mad when adobe charged for 5.5, I hated that MS charged for 9x - ME, this is bad business practice and all of you are simply supporting it.

It's a friggin number! It is an arbitrary number. What the hell! Who gives a sh%t what they name it. See number one above. If you don't need the features, if it is not worth it for you to have it, DON'T BUY IT! That doesn't give you any right to install an illegal copy of it. If you need it, spend the cash.

6) Forget me selling my dual 800, it's almost paid for and once it is it's getting smashed, forget selling it so Apple, oh so good compnay who cares for it's customers can reap another soul.

Boo friggin hoo. I am sure that Apple will be so mad at you for doing that. They are all going to have a meeting to discuss how they hurt you, then they're gonna come to your house and beg your forgiveness. NOT!

7) I will be looking at replacing the 100+ macs at my work with linux boxes.

Have fun! I hope you know how to support them. I am sure that the users will love you for it! They are going to love using pine instead of mail.app, and vi instead of word. tar -xvf instead of stuffit. Hope all of your hardware is supported. Have fun maintaining user accounts, you are going to have them attached to the internet aren't you. They will all be hacked within a week.

8) the sole purpose of copyright was so that a person could not lay CLAIM to your work. Theoretically, if I do not steal any material objects from apple, and do not make money off of their intellectual property, I am theoretically am clear of charges.

<snip>
Check the facts buddy: USC Title 17 Chap 2 Sec 202

TITLE 17--COPYRIGHTS

CHAPTER 2--COPYRIGHT OWNERSHIP AND TRANSFER

Sec. 202. Ownership of copyright as distinct from ownership of
material object

Ownership of a copyright, or of any of the exclusive rights under a
copyright, is distinct from ownership of any material object in which
the work is embodied. Transfer of ownership of any material object,
including the copy or phonorecord in which the work is first fixed, does
not of itself convey any rights in the copyrighted work embodied in the
object; nor, in the absence of an agreement, does transfer of ownership
of a copyright or of any exclusive rights under a copyright convey
property rights in any material object.

 

[peterjhill]

Originally posted by chuckzee
Why is it ok if companies such as Kinko’s, make tons money off of the USE of software which is not theirs, (Photoshop, Qwark etc..)--and no one blinks an eye, or creates a stink about how they should share a percentage of the revenue with the developers who are being shafted by not having people forced to buy their software?

And If I was to pirate Photoshop and GIVE it away or God Forbid, sell it for a tiny sum, all hell would break loose!

Because you friggin moron (sorry this guy is pi55ing me off)

Kinko's owns a license for every machine on which it is installed! You must go to the computer, not have the software come to you! They pay for the software, there is nothing in the license or copyright that prevents them from letting other people use it. Just like you can legally lend your computer to someone, hell, even make them give you money to borrow it!

GET A FRIGGIN CLUE!!!!!

foreach moron do squelch;

 

[peterjhill]

Originally posted by GPTurismo

Eula's don't hold in court thank you. You need a digital signature or a real life signature.

If Apple really wanted to and got a court order to perform a software inventory of your computer and found software for which you did not have a license, they could impound the computer as restitution. Then Apple could smash your computer, right in front of your smart a55ed face, a55

 

[skunk]

Call it a day

This thread has become very revealing. The pro-piracy lobby are showing themselves to be selfish, illogical and dishonest (not least about their motives), which is leaving Alex Ant, AlphaTech, Peter J Hill and co in firm possession of the high ground (as you may have noticed, pjh, they've changed my tablets...). While I am sympathetic to those decrying corporate greed and the legal bias in favour of US corporations in general, the "pirates" are using more and more puerile arguments and personal attacks in their desperation. It astonishes me that people with such shallow and undisciplined thinking are allowed by their employers to hold positions where they can take major purchasing decisions. Taking stuff you have no rights to for your own profit is so obviously wrong that it shouldn't need further discussion. And for these same people to claim they support Apple is not even funny: with friends like you, who needs enemies?

 

[King Cobra]

I'm confused on a few things regarding stuff I've read in this forum.

First, how the ... do I censor out bad words? 😛

Second, GPTurismo, whatever you do in life is based on your decisions, unless you are forced to do something. I recommend you don't make the wrong decisions in trading in Apple for linüx. 🙄

Third, the fact of the matter is this: as the antmyster put it earlier, the law is the law, and it applies to _everyone_ under it. Now I'm not going to post my feelings about my take on this here, as things are already fired up, but I do want to point out something. For those who think their opinion is higher than the law, that's only true if the law is changed to meet your opinion.

 

[GPTurismo]

You guys simply are idiots and don't get it.

Lets see...

First, Apple isn't even offering an Upgrade price, for an upgrade that should have been final release.

Look at the finder and how slow it is. Look at the lack of hardware and peripheral support. Sure the under pinnings of OS X are solid but that's because they existed before OS X was considered.

Second, if Adobe released a copy of photoshop, lets say, PS8, and it was buggy, and lacked in performance, and it was built on a solid foundation, and lets say, somehow, they forced you to upgrade, due to it being that there is a new standards and you need to keep up or anything of that manner, and then, they came out with 8.1, which they offered improvements, but didn't fix everything that is wrong with the top level environments, THEN, released 8.2, and charged you full price, wouldn't that tick you off? Talking of ethics, and talking of blind product loyalty.

The fact is, X is still beta software, and they pulled an MS and let us beta test it. Truthfully, I didn't mind until they said they are going to charge for it, with no upgrade option.

Then, Apple couldn't smash my computer in my face dumba55. Legally, I own all data, and hardware. If you have something illegal in your house, say a stolen cd, sam goody or geffen records can't come in a DESTROY YOUR HOUSE.

You = idiot.

If they did that they would be completely liable to the data on the machine, which let me say, is worth a lot more than what they could get out of us for EULA violations and copyright violations.

So sure, they can smash our boxes, but then they can pay for the data. Isn't that sweet.

They only have claim to the os, and all they can do is erase it. They can't smash legally owned hardware and legally owned data.

idiots.

As for supporting linux and our users hating us? How dumb is that. Most users don't care what they work on. As long as it works. And for the matter of fact, more than 50% of the users here in house want PC's because they like them better. Not because they are, but that's what they are use to and what everyone else uses. So it really doesn't matter what we put them on. And finally, the computer is a tool to do their job, if it allows the user to do their job, it is stable, like linux and MOSX, and does what they want so they can do their job, they won't complain. I love how idiots like you have this notion that users care about the name on the side of the box. Maybe 6 to 10 people out of 100 care and love they are using a mac.

You're just as bad as those MS people spitting out idiotic rhetoric to support your cause.

As for smashing my Dual, you know, I said that out of rage. I have come very close due to me hating apple. Like I said, I love their hardware, and I like MOSX, even though I am not letting a lot of the users use it because they can't do a lot of the things they need to do in it, with 50% being partly our fault because we are running a legacy database software that won't run in 10, or even 9 for that matter.

That only affects 15 users though, which now they have 2 boxes on their desk and run 9 and 8.6.

As for the cost of replacing the computers. Well, we have 20 tray imacs. 15 beige g3s, and a few older machines. Why? They still work so why replace them? So... when we will need to replace 40+ machines at a grand a piece, and every time we have to upgrade the os we will have to dish out 130 bucks per machine, why not go ahead and go with Linux or windows. We get win xp licenses for $30 bucks a pop. I don't see apple doing anything like that, which is one reason they are pushing for pc's anyway.

As for apple donating computers to schools...

well, that's not because they love you, it's because they screwed up and lost the education market, and they simply have to regain that. Now that they can milk you dry for software upgrades, why not donate. Just like MS. Also they can use it as a big tax write off.

As for stealing software, let me say, that I really never said that. I siad I was upset with what apple is doing, and that the SN thing is not real yet because a) it hasn't happened, and B) spymac said it and we know the reliability of rumors... especially in the mac community.

I just can't believe you guys are supportive of it. Talk about blind fanatacism, Talk about ethics...

 

[GPTurismo]

Originally posted by peterjhill


<snip>
Check the facts buddy: USC Title 17 Chap 2 Sec 202

TITLE 17--COPYRIGHTS

CHAPTER 2--COPYRIGHT OWNERSHIP AND TRANSFER

Sec. 202. Ownership of copyright as distinct from ownership of
material object

Ownership of a copyright, or of any of the exclusive rights under a
copyright, is distinct from ownership of any material object in which
the work is embodied. Transfer of ownership of any material object,
including the copy or phonorecord in which the work is first fixed, does
not of itself convey any rights in the copyrighted work embodied in the
object; nor, in the absence of an agreement, does transfer of ownership
of a copyright or of any exclusive rights under a copyright convey
property rights in any material object.

Print the entire thing. Printing a piece of a bill/act/title is like printing one verse from the bible. Doing that you can prove anything. You have to look at the entire picture.

And define OWNERSHIP...

It basically means I cannot take OWNERSHIP, which means I can't lay claims to a logo, song, or anything. It does not cover "use."

Dumba55

I just wanted to add, that me being upset with apple, is pretty hard to believe. I use to be one of the biggest mac heads ever. But I think when i got out of college and got a real job I started to see how things really are. My point is, my view is that of most high end IT people and standard consumers. And as people who love apple, you guys should point that out too, that way apple can get better.

I really never said anything about piracy, and I have spent the entire year I have been at this company making everything legit.

But that fact is, what is to say apple comes out with 10.3, even after I upgrade at full cost, and I get charged again. It's a problem with technology companies, and sadly allowing them to act this way screws the most important people in computers.

the consumers.

 

[chuckzee]

Originally posted by peterjhill


Because you friggin moron (sorry this guy is pi55ing me off)

Kinko's owns a license for every machine on which it is installed! You must go to the computer, not have the software come to you! They pay for the software, there is nothing in the license or copyright that prevents them from letting other people use it. Just like you can legally lend your computer to someone, hell, even make them give you money to borrow it!

GET A FRIGGIN CLUE!!!!!

foreach moron do squelch;

With your blind allegiance to the "law", you are the moron.

I know damn well about Kinko’s and how licensees work. My point with the post was to point out that since in theory, having people not have to buy Photoshop in order to use it; doesn't that somehow take away from the pocketbook of the poor guy writing code, that all of you so champion?

 

[chuckzee]

Originally posted by peterjhill



As for:

Even if it does involve windows computers sitting in front of more people, I would rather a child have a PC sitting in front of them, then nothing at all. I may not like Windows, but if it improves a childs education, allowing them to empower themselves to break out of the poverty cycle, that is good enough for me.

hey you moron,. how does having a computer in front of your desk allow you to break out of the poverty cycle?

schools in poor districts had brand spanking new computers for years, yet poverty still exists in those districts.

get a clue, you idiot, it will take a hell lot more than a PC, to break a child out of poverty.

 

[Pin-Fisher]

I have to agree with chuck on this one..

 

[TechLarry]

Re: BAD

Originally posted by Sublime
I dont like it. Serial numbers suck.

You think Serial Numbers suck?

Get a load of Microsoft dreadful creation known as WPA (Windows Product Activation).

It's left me stranded THREE times where I was not allowed to use my legally purchased copy of Window XP Home untill I called the "Mothership" and obtained 'permission' and a new activation code.

This was AFTER it was installed and operating for months!

TL

 

[TechLarry]

On TechTV, Leo Laporte of "The Screen Savers" predicted that due to the lousy pricing of MacOS X 10.2, it's going to become one of the most pirated OS's of all time.

Apple knows it is screwing us, and they probably also know that we don't like it and some may try to do something about it.

Maybe this is their way of stopping the 'revolt' from occuring.

God, with all the nonsense going on at Apple, Microsoft, the RIAA, the MPAA and their well-funded Senators Bills, I'm just about ready to give up on computers altogether.

It's just not fun any more.

TL

 

[TechLarry]

Re: Piracy sucks!

Originally posted by BillGates
Apple should utilize the embedded computer serial number tied to a supplied OS serial number to generate and activation key that only works on the one system. This adds over head but at least requires the pirate to hack the OS to get it to run rather than simply grabbing a serial number of some list on the internet. I've seen other unix systems like Sun use this method.

Its funny how the honest people are always paying extra to cover the cost of piracy. Ohhh well, thats life.

Are you NUTS ?

Oh, never mind. I just noticed your name...

TL