Well said.
While Apple certainly does not catch all the exploits/bugs, many are revealed in just the manner you explained !
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Pod2g wants your vote on the next jailbreak
- Thread starter Justinb51
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Well said.
While Apple certainly does not catch all the exploits/bugs, many are revealed in just the manner you explained !
Was there a point to the comment? So why are you so against them releasing it now in hopes of finding a future vulnerability in the next OS?
When you post a comment quoting someone else, it's usually a good idea to make a point in your own comment that actually relates to the quote.
There a number of devs and their exploits/tools available, released through various channels over the last 4 -5 years incorporating just about every iDevice from iTV to iPad to iPhone to iPod.
Apple is hardly in control of the situation, as you eluded to earlier and considering these exploits are essentially the work of a handful of part time hackers, all the more of an indictment on Apple's control of the situation.
Is it getting more difficult? Yes. Are we waiting longer for these exploits? Yes.
If pod2g didn't believe releasing a 5.1 jailbreak would compromise a 6 jailbreak why would he have asked?
I appreciate Apple is one or two steps ahead of the game, hell, probably even half a dozen. Fact of the matter is worldwide right now I wouldn't even want to speculate how many Jailbroken devices there are. So as far as them stemming the negative PR associated with a vulnerable OS, hardly convincing.
To conclude, I found the general tone of your post a bit condescending towards your fellow forumites and as you put it, their "uneducated responses".
Uh, no. There was no jailbreak for the 4S at release so anyone "REALLY" wanting a jailbreak wouldn't have had it. The 4S jb was released January 20th, and iOS 5.0.1 was no longer being signed as of March 9th. That is just one month, and 3 weeks.
Michael
Apple doesn't seem to take many proactive measurements to research and patch exploits. They are reactive in that they release small updates to close the exploit holes in subsequent releases. Furthermore, if holes are closed before the jailbreak is released, it's because the redesign of the OS (i.e. features/holes in iOS 4 are removed/rebuilt in iOS 5), OR because they are leaked to the public or among jailbreak devs who then work for Apple
(Comex).Please prove when devs have kept exploits and they have been burned because apple magically determined them and patched them in a subsequent update. Note: iOS 4 -> iOS 5 doesn't apply because they were mistakenly patched by chance, nor does Comex's iPad 2 4.3.X exploit "magically" being patched before release (interesting he went to work at Apple afterwards).
Also, app developers certainly report bugs in some cases, but they are usually solely concerned with how their app functions, not the boot exploits required for a jailbreak. Exploit developers have never implemented a jailbreak through an App Store app.
Point is, if you were even remotely in touch with the jailbreak or iPhone community, you would be very aware of the consequences of updating and not obtaining a 5.0.1 or lower phone, of which you had a lot of time to do.
What about people who didn't have the money when Apple was shipping iPhones with 5.0.1? Or those who just got into the jailbreaking game? Or those who wanted this to be their first device they jailbreak but it was on 5.1 when they got it.
It's already been mentioned that there is no guarantee the exploits won't be patched in iOS 6. Pod2g himself said it's a gamble. If it was guaranteed then sure I'd say let's wait.
Dude don't waste your time with that poster.
It's been explained to him countless times. There is simply no reasoning with an individual who refuses to comprehend simple logic such as not all apple devices have firmware 5.0.1 out of the box. He'd rather sit here and foolishly keep peddling his asinine argument and belittle people who got screwed out of a jailbreak by apple. It's like trying to have an intelligent conversation with a 3 year old.
Let's use facts instead of petty arguments.
If you bought a 4S when it was released, you had to wait about 3 months for a jailbreak, yet at least you were guaranteed to be on a firmware that could be jailbroken.
If you bought a 4S through mid March, chances are that it was still running 5.0.1 because Apple doesn't wipe out their entire inventory in a day, and there is lag time between loading new phones with 5.1 and shipping them as inventory to stores.
That means, that basically the ONLY people who are unable to jailbreak their 4S at the moment are the following:
- Those who "mistakenly updated" to 5.1
- Those who bought a 4S between late March and the present, barely over a month (knowing that there was a high probability it would be on 5.1 and un-jailbreakable)
See my point yet?
If you bought a 4S upon release, you had to wait 3 months for a jailbreak - If you bought a 4S after mid March through today, then you will probably have to wait a maximum of 2 months. If anything, your wait time is guaranteed to be shorter.
This is because pod2g is more than likely nearing completion of the A5 jailbreak and is working on finalizing the tool, but at this point with WWDC a few weeks away he may hold out. Even still, the tool is NOT ready yet, so quit your whining as if you are owed a jailbreak and it is being withheld.
He doesn't care about them because "they should have known better."
Yes, it's ridiculous lol.
Michael
If you have ever owned an iPhone or jailbroken it, you very well know the sensitivity they have to Apple's iOS updates. At the very least, if you were buying an iPhone to jailbreak it, then an educated consumer, who "couldn't afford one for the previous six months", would be sure to do their research before spending so much money. The forums are littered with "WHEN CAN I JB MY 4S ON 5.1?"
Newsflash: Apple screws everyone out of jailbreaks. You just can't deal with the facts that you didn't get your 4S soon enough, or updated it by mistake, or will have to wait a few months just like the rest of us had to.
Holy COW The sense of entitlement within the jailbreak community is ridiculous.
FYI my 4S is jailbroken on 5.0.1 so I'm not whining nor do I have a sense of entitlement. Can we just stop arguing. There was a poll, people voted and now pod2g will make his decision and none of us can influence that decision. No point in fighting over it.
Wirelessly posted
That's a bad idea. Ios5 had the exploits exist through each beta until the GM was released and then they were closed. So just because the exploits exist in the first beta does not guarantee they will exist in the GM.
ACardAttack said:
That's a bad idea. Ios5 had the exploits exist through each beta until the GM was released and then they were closed. So just because the exploits exist in the first beta does not guarantee they will exist in the GM.
The whole jailbreaking thing is simple, it revolves around the intent of the iOS hacker. The jailbreaker's intent needs to be identified first before going deeper into the topic.
For i0n1c, his intent is personal, he did all the work and I fully agree that he has every right to hang onto any secrets and benefits he reaps from the result of his time and effort. For guys like him it makes sense to hold off releasing anything to anyone so that he can hang onto whatever he discovers for as long as possible.
For pod2g, his intent appears to be to release his work to the general public. If that's the case it makes less sense to hold off on releasing it.
First, you never know when the next coder intends on cashing in by submitting the exploit to Apple, after all $250k per exploit is very tempting.
Second, you never know when the next app engineer is going to stumble upon an exploit required for the JB and submit it to Apple.
Third, you never know whether Apple has already discovered the exploit with a patch on its way.
For i0n1c, his intent is personal, he did all the work and I fully agree that he has every right to hang onto any secrets and benefits he reaps from the result of his time and effort. For guys like him it makes sense to hold off releasing anything to anyone so that he can hang onto whatever he discovers for as long as possible.
For pod2g, his intent appears to be to release his work to the general public. If that's the case it makes less sense to hold off on releasing it.
First, you never know when the next coder intends on cashing in by submitting the exploit to Apple, after all $250k per exploit is very tempting.
Second, you never know when the next app engineer is going to stumble upon an exploit required for the JB and submit it to Apple.
Third, you never know whether Apple has already discovered the exploit with a patch on its way.
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A quote in Forbes Magazine that a government would pay $250,000 for an iOS "exploit" has somehow turned into Apple paying $250,000 for jailbreaks. Do people honestly believe Apple would pay for a jailbreak when all they have to do is wait on it to be released and then patch it in a week for free? Apple DOES NOT BUY JAILBREAKS, they don't need to. Governments buy jailbreaks.
That's not as important to know than it is about any entity willing to shell out that much money per iOS exploit. The money is what motivates some to submit key exploits needed to perform/maintain the jailbreaks, that's the point I was trying to make about why if a jailbreaker's intent is to release it to the general public, there's less of a reason to wait to release it. I don't think anyone cares where the money comes from as long as it's $250,000.
Well it's mostly various governments that are buying the exploits - at least according to that article. There could be issues with that... Let's say you're an American citizen and North Korea wants to buy an exploit for big bucks... There's a very good chance you can get charged with treason. So yes, it does matter where the $250k comes from.
Also - i0n1c does have the right to do whatever he wants with his work. But teasing the community and ******** on the userbase that makes the exploits valuable (no one would pay $250k for an exploit of the iOS userbase wasn't so hige) is childish
I disagree. I don't think most iOS hackers who're in it for the money (black hatters) care where the money comes from as long as they get it. Being charged with treason is one thing but proving it and getting to that point where such a charge could be made is another. iOS is not intellectual property of the US Gov, it's exclusive to Apple so I don't see how treason could be an issue so your example is overwhelmingly irrelevant.
i0n1c's behavior is no different from anything else I've seen in any other hobby or profession, if anything I'm glad that he has the skillset to find what he needs to perform his own jailbreak. That only helps me appreciate guys like pod2g more and more. You're only upset because he refuses to share it with you because you're likely only concerned about what you get from it. How many other folks have shown off something to rub it in someone's face? It's nothing new.
Selling a tool used for cyber warfare i.e. iPhone "exploits" to North Korea would most definitely be regarded as treason by the United States. It makes no difference that Apple owns iOS. Most hackers selling vulnerabilities to governments are smart enough to know that you don't sell said vulnerabilities to governments that are not friendly to your own.
It would be treason beccause you'd be selling information that would allow a foreign power (which is considered an enemy state) to spy on Americans. iOS devices are also being deployed in various US government departments - granted they probably wouldn't trust top-secret information to an iPhone or iPad; but if someone can intercept network traffic through a compromised iPhone, that can still yield valuable information.
The iOS hackers aren't really even blackhatters. Everything I've seen about them (with the possible exception if i0n1c) is that they're generally upright people. Especially the dev-team which insists that people donate to a charity if they feel the need to give anyone money. They're against stealing in any form, and try to abide by all laws. People who are greedy enough to just sell to the highest-bidder no matter what the consequences are don't think like that. Hackers are not the same as arms dealers.
i0n1c's behavior may not be new, but that doesn't make it acceptable. I'm not even all that upset - pretty much everyone else in the JB scene is more than willing to share their work. I just think he's deliberately being an *******. If I had a skill that others wanted/needed, and I didn't want to share it, I just wouldn't make it known that I could do what they're asking.
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I love all of this back and forth bantering from both sides because it's so IRRELEVANT.
Pod2g is going to do what he wants to do. If anyone of think think some meaningless blog "poll" is going to influence him one way or another then I have a concept 'iPhone 5' that I'm willing to sell you.
Pod2g is going to do what he wants to do. If anyone of think think some meaningless blog "poll" is going to influence him one way or another then I have a concept 'iPhone 5' that I'm willing to sell you.