Powerbook and PowerMac Updates - October 19th?

[~Shard~]

unlike most of you here, i am not looking forward to the upcoming release of the new powermacs. I, being the poor 20 year old that i am, just recently had enough cash to get a dual 2.3 G5, then, not even a few weeks after buying it, i hear of these new dual-core powermacs that are soon to be released. this almost makes me sick to my stomach. i spend $2500, and already there are going to be better macs out there. i asked, searched, etc. and found no evidence of any substantial upgrades until the big intel move, and was dead wrong. even the mac "specialist" told me that there wasn't going to be any big changes in the powermac until then. same thing with the ipod, just bought a 20GB photo, and now the new ipods are out and i've just taken my now retro ipod out of the box. well, that's it, i'm done complaining.

Welcome to the world of technology! Things are obsolete the day you buy them, whether they are $50 or $5000. The important thing is to buy what you need to satisfy your needs. I assume you wouldn't have bought a dual 2.3 GHz system if it didn't do what you needed it to. And now that new PowerMacs are coming out, does that magically make your system not perform as well as it did yesterday? Of course not. If it does everything you need it to, why complain? There are many people out there who wish they had a system like yours, but don't. I'm sure many other "poor 20 year olds" would love to be able to spend $2500 on a computer...

I know it can be frustrating when you spend a lot of money on something only to find a newer model out the next day, but as I said, that's technology for you. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

It's too bad your research didn't include MacRumors - we've been talking about 970MP PowerMacs for a while now, and how something substantial is going to come along since Intel PowerMacs aren't coming out until 2007.

As I said, I see where you're coming from, and I'm sorry, but hey, that's technology. It is what it is.

 

[DavidCar]

Contrary to some predictions here, I would think the new low end PM would be a single 2Ghz 970MP, rather than a dual single core. It seems more likely to me they would go to 970MPs for the whole line.

I've been trying to read up on DDR2, but I've not yet seen a clear indication it would be an advantage, or at least not a big advantage. Wouldn't two dual core chips require some memory architecture innovation, like quad memory banks or something, to maintain the current memory bandwidth to each core? Wouldn't four cores crossing the same northbridge chip result in a big traffic jam, or am I clueless here?

If all Oct 19th brings is an iPod Pro, I'm signing off MacRumors until January.

 

[Dave the Great]

you know, apple could put an h264 hardwware decoder chip in these powerbooks. that would help the poor ol g4 to play that hd content. if they can get a chip in a miniscule ipod to do 320x240, they should be able to get something in the pb that can do better than that. didn't ati just release a new chipset last week....

You know, I thought of that, too. I don't know why they couldn't.

TI has made a chip (DM64xxx) for quite awhile now that can encode/decode HD in MPEG-2, WMV9, and or H.264. It is not an expensive chip and, anyway, I am sure Apple would get a sweeter price. It is small and not power hungry, too.

It would be cool to see.

 

[VanNess]

"The systems are expected to be based on the Dual Core IBM 970MP processor which was announced in July. The new PowerMacs are said to feature Dual processors (for a total of 4 processor cores), PCI-E, and dual-layer SuperDrives."

Just reading that has made my 1ghz eMac much snappier

 

[~Shard~]

If all Oct 19th brings is an iPod Pro, I'm signing off MacRumors until January.

Wow, never even thought of that horrible possibility. Yeah, you and me both then.

 

[Indo]

i've read a lot of posts saying apple won't pack in more features and keep/lower price.

look right now at the ipod and imac updates. more features, same/lower price.

-Indo

 

[andiwm2003]

unlike most of you here, i am not looking forward to the upcoming release of the new powermacs. I, being the poor 20 year old that i am, just recently had enough cash to get a dual 2.3 G5, then, not even a few weeks after buying it, i hear of these new dual-core powermacs that are soon to be released. this almost makes me sick to my stomach. i spend $2500, and already there are going to be better macs out there. i asked, searched, etc. and found no evidence of any substantial upgrades until the big intel move, and was dead wrong. even the mac "specialist" told me that there wasn't going to be any big changes in the powermac until then. same thing with the ipod, just bought a 20GB photo, and now the new ipods are out and i've just taken my now retro ipod out of the box. well, that's it, i'm done complaining.

don't worry about that. you're G5 2.3 will be o.k. for years to come.

it's probably better to wait 3 month before one buys a dual core anyway. if they redesign the computers from scratch then you don't want to be the first one to buy. there could be heat issues, compatibility problems, noise and what not.

in fact i'm considering buying a G5 2.3 if they drop in price. GPU's and DVD burners can be updated. and how much faster the dual cores in real life are the future will show.

maybe for the average user 4 cores will not be much better than two. seeing my usage over the last year i hardly ever have more than two tasks running (a video and excel, or itunes and iphoto). so four cores are probably overkill for my needs. two cores are good because then the system stays responsive.

the alternative would be buying a dual core around christmas and then the intel systems are already looming.

well in the high tech world we all are outdated in a matter of month

 

[~Shard~]

i've read a lot of posts saying apple won't pack in more features and keep/lower price.

look right now at the ipod and imac updates. more features, same/lower price.

-Indo

I think Apple set a precedent with the new iMac in that yes, they have updated a machine with a lot more features and kept the price the same/lowered it. They pretty much have to follow suit with the PowerMacs, especially when it comes to DDR2 RAM and PCIe video cards, however when it comes to the cost of the new PowerMacs, I don't necessarily see them staying the same or lowering - it completely depends on what Apple does with the processor. If we see single 970MPs, then yes, the price could stay the same. However, if the high end machine (or more) see dual 970MPs, then I think Apple would understandably have to raise the price.

As for the PowerBook, as I've said before, it all depends what Apple's strategy and timing is with respect to the Intel chips. If the next PowerBook is going to be Yonah, don't expect too much - if it's going to me Merom, expect something of substance to tide people over until the Intel switch. So, this could range from essentially no worthy updates, to a 7448 update, to <shudder> a 970GX update! I doubt the last one is likely, but you never know I guess... I'm not expecting much, but I do see the possibility for a PowerBook update of some substance at the end of the day. The PowerMac update is the one I'll be watching closely.

well in the high tech world we all are outdated in a matter of month

Try "days" or "hours"...

 

[andiwm2003]

Try "days" or "hours"...

you're right. when you buy something basically the very second you leave the store or click o.k. online.....

but i actually meant WE are outdated

 

[~Shard~]

you're right. when you buy something basically the very second you leave the store or click o.k. online.....

but i actually meant WE are outdated

Us? No, never...

 

[sai_digitalle]

Forever Outdated: Choosing purchasing spots wisely

Upgrades, and configuration enhancements are always interesting. Though all cpu companies introduce chip upgrades (speed etc), Because of Apple's frustrations with reaching/breaking the 3.0Ghz mark, it seems the company is in a tailspin until the MacTel systems enter the market.

Just look at what's going on: Apple drops the G5's (speed ranges introduced from 1.8ghz to 2.3ghz), then bumped up the speeds in small increments- ultimately stopping at 2.7ghz. All while this is going on, they are flirting with releasing the 970MP systems- which will be released hopefully sometime next week.

We all understand that technology changes twice as fast as the human eye blinks! The new Dual-Core systems will enter the scene with reported speeds of up to 2.5ghz and substantial performance increases of around 50%.

This is what's first to be introduced with Apples' new line, But what i'm really waiting for is for Apple to be stable with one company manufactoring their processors, then i'll be AMPED and READY buy again. My feelings is when Apple and Intel hit the ground running, things will smooth out tremendously, for Apple, they will be more stable and consistant in regards to enhancements and improvements.

I'll conclude this with a question: where do you all think the PowerMac configurations will be in March 2006 with the Dual-Core configurations?

Peace, Sai.

 

[~Shard~]

I'll conclude this with a question: where do you all think the PowerMac configurations will be in March 2006 with the Dual-Core configurations?

The same place they'll be when they're released next week. I don't see another update to the PowerMacs until WWDC quite possibly, where we'll see an incremental speed bump to tide us over until the Intel PowerMacs are released in 2007.

 

[sai_digitalle]

3.0ghz barrier to be broken in 2007????

Shard,
forgive my ignorance but what does "WWDC" means? Also, the 970MP Dual-Core chips are expected to only clock up to 2.7ghz, and since the MacTel systems are'nt due til 2007, that means PowerMacs won't break the 3.0ghz til then.

But with the seriously signicant performance increases of the 970MP Dual-Core PM systems, I feel as though this should be viewed as a SERIOUSLY SIGNIFICANT upgrade for Macs because instead of Apple breaking the 3.0ghz mark with it's current single-core processors, Mac owners will still receive a better system update to the PM line.

Peace, Sai.

 

[MontyZ]

.

 

[~Shard~]

Shard,
forgive my ignorance but what does "WWDC" means?

No need to apologize whatsoever - as MontyZ linked to, it's the World Wide Developer's Conference.

Also, the 970MP Dual-Core chips are expected to only clock up to 2.7ghz, and since the MacTel systems are'nt due til 2007, that means PowerMacs won't break the 3.0ghz til then.

But they're dual core, not single core.

But with the seriously signicant performance increases of the 970MP Dual-Core PM systems, I feel as though this should be viewed as a SERIOUSLY SIGNIFICANT upgrade for Macs because instead of Apple breaking the 3.0ghz mark with it's current single-core processors, Mac owners will still receive a better system update to the PM line.

Yep - dual cores in the Powermacs will definitely be a significant upgrade - the question is, will Apple make the top of the line PowerMacs dual dual-core or not? If so, then that will be a seriously nice upgrade!

 

[DavidCar]

Originally Posted by DavidCar
If all Oct 19th brings is an iPod Pro, I'm signing off MacRumors until January.

Wow, never even thought of that horrible possibility. Yeah, you and me both then.

Maybe we should say our goodbyes now. Someone in the iPod thread just mentioned an aquaintance is testing an iPod DJ version to be released soon.

 

[~Shard~]

Originally Posted by DavidCar
If all Oct 19th brings is an iPod Pro, I'm signing off MacRumors until January.
Maybe we should say our goodbyes now. Someone in the iPod thread just mentioned an aquaintance is testing an iPod DJ version to be released soon.

Damn. Well, it's been good knowing ya...

 

[CyberDoberman]

I'm holding off on my computer purchase until this date... but I AM NOT HOLDING MY BREATH...

 

[Platform]

I smell bullcrap all over this one. The 7447A has a FSB of 166mhz. What the hell would be the point of stuffing DDR2 into that bottleneck? Even the 7448, which has a 200mhz FSB, would be questionable. And they will be using a 7448. I can't imagine there being so many problems that they wont even bump the speed up with a better processor.

Better Battery life

Shard,
forgive my ignorance but what does "WWDC" means? Also, the 970MP Dual-Core chips are expected to only clock up to 2.7ghz, and since the MacTel systems are'nt due til 2007, that means PowerMacs won't break the 3.0ghz til then.

But with the seriously signicant performance increases of the 970MP Dual-Core PM systems, I feel as though this should be viewed as a SERIOUSLY SIGNIFICANT upgrade for Macs because instead of Apple breaking the 3.0ghz mark with it's current single-core processors, Mac owners will still receive a better system update to the PM line.

Peace, Sai.

Are they not just going to 2.5

 

[BenRoethig]

I'll sort this out here.

Parallel PCI:
PCI: Consumer bus comes in 33 and 66mhz speeds
PCI Extreme (PCI-X): Professional PCI bus operating at speeds of 100 and 133mhz.

Serial PCI:
PCI Express (PCI-E) x16. Type of PCI express primarily used for graphics cards using 16 lanes.

PCI Express x4: Professional Form of PCI Express using 4 lanes. Roughly equivalent to PCI-X.

PCI Express X1: Consumer form of PCI express using 1 lane. Roughly equivalent to standard PCI.

 

[~Shard~]

I'll sort this out here.

Parallel PCI:
PCI: Consumer bus comes in 33 and 66mhz speeds
PCI Extreme (PCI-X): Professional PCI bus operating at speeds of 100 and 133mhz.

Serial PCI:
PCI Express (PCI-E) x16. Type of PCI express primarily used for graphics cards using 16 lanes.

PCI Express x4: Professional Form of PCI Express using 4 lanes. Roughly equivalent to PCI-X.

PCI Express X1: Consumer form of PCI express using 1 lane. Roughly equivalent to standard PCI.

Thank you, I wasn't completely certain how all the flavors of PCIe
fit in with the other versions myself.

 

[AidenShaw]

I'll sort this out here.

Your "pro" vs "consumer" distinction isn't really that useful.... Some of the different versions are historical, others are obvious cost mitigators (PCIe x1 is the "right" fit for a USB controller, it's not a "pro" vs. "consumer" issue).

PCI comes in 32/64 bit, and 33/66 MHz, and 3.3/5 volt. The distinctions aren't as much pro/consumer, but more early/late. (Early PCI was only 32/33/5, late is often 64/66/3.3).

"PCI Extreme" isn't "PCI-X". That name shouldn't be mentioned, it only adds confusion due to its similarity to "PCI Express". PCI-X is 66/100/133, PCI-X 2.0 is 66/100/133/266/533 MHz.

There's a PCIe x8 (not PCI-E x8) offered in some systems - very useful for 10 GbE, IB, and FC 4Gb.

AFAIK, there's no PCIe x1 card market. If you do single lane, it's for onboard "junk I/O" devices like modems, keyboards, USB....

 

[~Shard~]

Your "pro" vs "consumer" distinction isn't really that useful.... Some of the different versions are historical, others are obvious cost mitigators (PCIe x1 is the "right" fit for a USB controller, it's not a "pro" vs. "consumer" issue).

PCI comes in 32/64 bit, and 33/66 MHz, and 3.3/5 volt. The distinctions aren't as much pro/consumer, but more early/late. (Early PCI was only 32/33/5, late is often 64/66/3.3).

"PCI Extreme" isn't "PCI-X". That name shouldn't be mentioned, it only adds confusion due to its similarity to "PCI Express". PCI-X is 66/100/133, PCI-X 2.0 is 66/100/133/266/533 MHz.

There's a PCIe x8 (not PCI-E x8) offered in some systems - very useful for 10 GbE, IB, and FC 4Gb.

AFAIK, there's no PCIe x1 card market. If you do single lane, it's for onboard "junk I/O" devices like modems, keyboards, USB....

Thanks AidenShaw, very informative. I always learn a great deal of technical information from your posts.

 

[RoxStrongo]

I think Apple set a precedent with the new iMac in that yes, they have updated a machine with a lot more features and kept the price the same/lowered it. They pretty much have to follow suit with the PowerMacs, especially when it comes to DDR2 RAM and PCIe video cards, however when it comes to the cost of the new PowerMacs, I don't necessarily see them staying the same or lowering - it completely depends on what Apple does with the processor. If we see single 970MPs, then yes, the price could stay the same. However, if the high end machine (or more) see dual 970MPs, then I think Apple would understandably have to raise the price.

i dont see why they should have to raise the price particularly. especially as the technology with the current g5s has aged. im guessing apple pays a lot less for the components now than it did when they were first introduced. however we have not seen a drop in price. if the profit margin has grown during the course of the g5s life then there is not the same need to up the price for newer models.

 

[~Shard~]

i dont see why they should have to raise the price particularly. especially as the technology with the current g5s has aged. im guessing apple pays a lot less for the components now than it did when they were first introduced. however we have not seen a drop in price. if the profit margin has grown during the course of the g5s life then there is not the same need to up the price for newer models.

You're correct, it may not happen, and may not be entirely necessary, but all I'm saying is I wouldn't be surprised if the prices went up a bit (or at least stayed the same) for the high end PowerMac if it is indeed going to be a dual dual-core system. Guess we'll see!