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Errr embedded is what I'm talking about. Motorola has already implemented memory interfaces on some of theire ebedded chips. A fast G4 with an on board memory controller couold be very attactive to there embedded cusotesr and Apple alike.

To be honest I don't think the spun off division has a chance in hell of staying in the embedded market it is in now without system CPU's. MUch of the embedded space that the G4 goes into will benefit form better performance. The market is there.

Besides do you really think that Apple wants to put all its eggs in one basket? I suspect that Apple willl continue to use Motorola hardware for as long as itis practical. Obviously that won't be to long if Motorola can't continue to improve its product line.

Dave



oingoboingo said:
I doubt Motorola would really be interested in investing any significant R&D resource into a desktop processor line which is really only used by one customer...and that customer has staked the performance future of their company on moving away from your chip designs!

As many people have pointed out in the past, once the CPU division of Motorola is spun-out, they probably want to concentrate on designing and building new embedded PowerPC designs, rather than sinking a lot of money into upgrading desktop/notebook CPUs destinated for a business relationship which is ultimately a dead-end.
 
Dippo said:
Two years?!?!??

If the same thing applied to the G5...then wouldn't that mean that we wouldn't see G5 Powerbooks until Summer 2005...

That's a long time, and would mean at least one more and maybe two more G4 powerbook updates. The Powerbook G4 might be up to 2.0Ghz before the G5 is released!!

Two years? Uh, no. The G4 Power Mac was released in Sept. '99. The G4 PowerBook was released in Jan. '01. That's 16 months, not two years. It's not even a year and a half. If the G5 PowerBook is released on the next revision (say sometime between November this year and January next), it'll be on the same type of time table as the G4 was.

Two years? Sheesh. Way to throw out a marketing lie...
 
What about enclosure, people?!

I have not seen one person talk about another very important thing about bring the G5 PowerBook to light,... the NEW enclosure.

Do you actually think Apple will just stick a G5 into the existing AL Book and be done with it? Not only will the book need new innards internally to make the G5 a reality, but it'll need a slick new enclosure.

I remember when the TI Books first came out... I always wondered HOW IN THE HECK would they improve such a work of art. Finally with the AL Book, they succeeded... in SPADES.

Now, they have to somehow (SOMEHOW!!!) top the AL Book... think about it... just how wonderful is the current enclosure. I'd say it's easily the coolest laptop the world has ever seen. Topping it will not be easy.

But, in order to attract new converts (i.e. the people how have passed on the current AL Books) Apple knows they've got to raise the bar once again. This is going to take time!

We just got these new AL Books about a year ago... I got the first 17" PB and I remember it came sometime in April. Why would Apple throw out all of the R&D it took to develop such an amazing enclosure to just abandon it in a year's time! Those who thought G5 Books were coming out are simply MAD.

Even though I've got the first 17" AL Book (at a mere 1GHz), I wouldn't trade too much for it (mayber a newer book, but that's all)... if you are the proud owner of any of the AL's then you know exactly what I mean.


Be patient. And in the meantime, order one of the new ones, you will be very glad you did. They are marvelous.
 
hulugu said:
Uh, how thick and heavy is a blade server? ...

It actually is only 1.75". Yeah, granted it is heavy, but it also supports a lot of things a laptop does not need, such as dual processors, 8gb ram support, 3 HardDrive support, more I/O connectivity, etc. etc.

EMachines is already on Rev. B of their Athlon 64 laptops. If eMachines can make it happen, why can't Apple?

Yeah, the eMachines is almost 2 pounds heavier and I think .25" thicker, but it is also like $800 - $1000 less than the comparable PB.

I would be happy with a G5 DeskBook right now. It could be priced around the current PB, but the trade-off would be that it would be a little heavier,little thicker, and a little less run-time.
 
Bhennies said:
I would like a desktop replacement that can adequately run Pro Tools. The powerbooks don't even come close, even with the updates. I would love it if I could reduce my audio hardware to just a g5 powerbook with a firewire interface and a small rack of outboard gear. Ahhhh...just dreaming.

your signature says you're running a dual 500 mhz G4 tower. And yet a 1.5 Ghz powerbook "wouldn't even come close" to meeting your needs? :rolleyes:
 
h'biki said:
It seems to me that the people who do all the whining are the very people who don't actually -need- the machines. Its about dick measuring. Single Processor G4s, clock for clock, aren't that much slower than a single processor G5 -- at least on the stats I've seen.

While I'm not whining, I do want to see a G5 PB. Once one comes out I plan on getting it. I can't really afford to have two computers at this point, and I need the portability (a bit more important than the power), but having the power would be immensely useful in a variety of things that I do. So, in a sense, I do need the power, but I'm getting by without it for now, as I don't have a choice. (Of course, one could argue that none of us needs our computers at all...)
 
Kelson said:
...look at how long it took for Apple to move the iBook to the G4. Assuming the PBG5 hits MWSF '05, you probably won't see G5 iBooks until MWSF '07 if not WWDC '07...

The iBook didn't get the G4 because Apple didn't have a new processor yet. If we're back onto a decent processor upgrade cycle, we should see a G6 in another year or two. Around that same time, I wouldn't be surprised to see the iBook move to the G5. So, that would mean G5 iBooks in late '05 or '06, not '07.
 
IBM Blade Servers

If IBM can get two PowerPC 970s in a blade server, why can't Apple get one in a laptop!

hulugu said:
Uh, how thick and heavy is a blade server? And, um how much power does such a thing use? I know their efficient, but enough to fit into a laptop?
Just a thought.

The BladeCenter JS20 takes 14 hot swappable 'blades', each of which contains 2 x1.6Ghz PPC970's in a space 12" high x 17" wide x 28" deep. Up to 2 IDE HDs per blade.

A fully loaded BladeCenter comes with 4 x 1800w power supplies, although only 2 are required (all hot swappable). That's 128w per cpu. A Powerbook G5 is going to need to use a lot less power than that.
 
JGowan said:
Now, they have to somehow (SOMEHOW!!!) top the AI Book... think about it... just how wonderful is the current enclosure. I'd say it's easily the coolest laptop the world has ever seen. Topping it will not be easy.

4 words

Carbon Fiber G5 Powerbook

Tyler
 
wizard said:
...As to a 970 based portable it is very apparent that the 970FX is not ready to go into a portable and may never be ready...

Very apparent? How so? Based on what? It's not a very hot chip. It may be a little hotter than the G4, but it's cooler than chips that are used in PC laptops. Yes, there are other issues, but they have less to do with the 970FX and more to do with other aspects of the system design. So, tell me again, how is the 970FX not able to fit in a portable environment?
 
SiliconAddict said:
If that's the case screw apple. I'm not waiting over a year for a high performance Apple laptop. And don't tell me the current 1.5Ghz laptop is high performance. Apple users are falling into the Mhz myth. Reality time. PC laptops outperform Apple's *books. I'll get an IBM. :mad: Here's a realization Apple better get in a freaking hurry. If they are going to charge a premium for their laptops they DAMN well better have performance to go with it and if not they better change their price scheme accordingly.
This is NOT cool.

I don't agree with this statement at all. I own a Dell Inspiron 8600 with a 1.4GHz Centrino chip and my Powerbook 1GHz G4 is hands down superior to it. Benchmarks are not really telling in the real world. I find that XP is not very effecient and bogs down quite a bit. The system will hang momentarily while its doing something. OS X on the other hand is smooth as silk and seems to manage its memory better. Windows requires frequent reboots, especially after hibernation. The Powerbook never requires this! I move back and forth from home and work with no trouble. How much time have I wasted waiting for the dam thing to reboot? The Dell sucks. No DVI support, and it can't handle moving around to different networks gracefully; if frequently looses it's IP address and refuses to renew it. Forget it, Windows is a hassle so who cares if it's benchmarks are a little higher, I am far more productive on OS X than XPl; I'll take a G4 over a Centrino any day. And I havn't mentioned the amazing design Apple products have. My powerbook driving a 20" cinema display is a beautiful addition to my living room and quite the conversation piece. All I really need now is a 30" display to replace it. :cool:
 
JGowan said:
...Do you actually think Apple will just stick a G5 into the existing AI Book and be done with it? Not only will the book need new innards internally to make the G5 a reality, but it'll need a slick new enclosure.

...

We just got these new AI Books about a year ago... I got the first 17" PB and I remember it came sometime in April. Why would Apple throw out all of the R&D it took to develop such an amazing enclosure to just abandon it in a year's time! Those who thought G5 Books were coming out are simply MAD....

First, it's 'AL', not 'AI'. 'AL' or 'Al' as in aluminum, the material the case is made from.

Second, sit a couple of industrial designers down for a week and they'd come up with a half a dozen new design possibilities. Spend another week doing focus group studies to determine which design has the greatest consumer appeal. Then send the designs to Steve Jobs for a week so he can decide which model he likes best, regardless of what the consumer focus groups say. Presto, in under a month you have a new design. It really doesn't take that much time. (This is, of course, grossly over-simplified, but I hope that you get my point...)

Finally, I agree that Apple will most likely put the G5 in a new skin when it enters into the PowerBook arena. However, I don't agree that Apple cares one bit how long the AL Book appearance has been around, or that that will have any influence on when they release the G5 PBs.
 
WANT WANT WANT WANT, good lord to you hear yourselves? I admit I read these rantings cause they provide e with entertainment, but cmon, lol. You guys are bitching for the sake of Bitching! Had Apple released a 1.6ghz G5 you would claim they should have put a 1.8 or 2.0 in it. Or the Display would not be updated and you would bitch about that, or the damn Superdrive would not have been fast enough, blah blah blah.

If you really are that pissed either get over it or head back to the Windows world, Bill is waiting for you. OS X is so god damn efficient that even a 1Ghz G4 is blazing fast, wake up people.
 
QCassidy352 said:
your signature says you're running a dual 500 mhz G4 tower. And yet a 1.5 Ghz powerbook "wouldn't even come close" to meeting your needs? :rolleyes:

ha, no kidding... i pay the rent with Audio App's too and this 867 12" with only 256k L2 Cache is smokin' with everything i need to do with it.

hell if i bought a 1.5ghz today, it would almost be a waste of money.

on another note... screw the G5, i didn't pay for Ghz... i paid for OSX.
for all the PC Comparisons... fine people then get your 3ghz plastic p.o.s. and we'll see you in 6 months after you are fed up with the worms, viruses, and spywares.
 
g5 lappi

Look i as an apple reseller do not believe that waiting on a g5 lappi is a bad thin would you want to buy something thats going to break down after a week hell no

Just remember good things come to those who wait :D
 
I repeat... its the heat...

I don't care about getting flamed but I care about heat...

Look people... the G5 is a great chip and a real advance over what can be done with systems etc etc... but the thing is like a mini furnace!!! It pumps out heat like there is no tomorrow. Now those who are brave enough to run a PB G4 on their bare knees will appreaciate that any increase in heat has got to be a very bad thing.

I'll say it again. There will be no PB G5 until the heat issue is solved. End of story. Period. That's it. There is no more.

once Apple gets around this problem, and they will, then it will be all on for young and old... I've got a PB 17" on a three year lease with one year just about up so in two years I'll be ready. Apple would dearly love to have a PB G5 out and about soon but it also has to deal to the PM range first so that it can get traction on the desktop market - which isn't exactly going as well as it should be if Apple Q2 numbers are any indication.

A PB G5 with fully optimised 64bit software would be an amazing thing... but were just going to have to wait. G4 is a perfectly capabale workhorse for the next 12 months at least....

Exits stage left....
 
oingoboingo said:
OK, after the massive explosion in replies that happened in the PowerBook release annoucement thread, I think we should have some kind of condensed, FAQ-like digest which will only take a few minutes to read, but which will convey all of the necessary points. Basically this FAQ is a collection of phrases which you can arrange as you will. You can pose them as questions or statements, mostly just by changing around a few key words and punctuation marks. Go ahead...experiment...mix'n'match!!! It's just like wasting hours reading the real forum!!!

- This is a disappointing update. Still no sign of the G5. Motorola sucks. I will not even consider a PowerBook until it has a 5GHz G5. Dude, I'm getting a Dell.

- Nobody needs a G5 PowerBook. Hell, most people don't even need a G4 PowerBook...it's just wasted processing power. I'm running PhotoShop, Illustrator, Final Cut Pro, GarageBand, Logic and Unreal Tournament 2004 all simultaneously on my 266MHz G3 PowerBook and it runs GREAT!!!. I deeply resent any suggestion that anyone needs more processing power than me. I am the benchmark.

- I can buy a 3.4GHz Dell Inspiron for $29.95 and have it personally delivered by Michael Dell. Only a fool would by a PowerBook.

- That Dell weighs 27.9kg and is made out of cardboard. I know, I worked in an office where we had 5000 Dell Inspirons and they all failed. Every single one of them. My 300MHz G3 toilet-seat iBook runs faster than those things anyway. MHz myth!!! MHz myth!!! Only a fool would buy a Dell. Their support staff are all in India, and instead of sending replacement parts they send stale pappadums.

- Nice updates, but I wish they had 1024MB of video RAM as an option. That would make that slow GeForce FX 5200 FLY!!!!

- 4MB of VRAM is way too much. If anything Apple should get rid of the VRAM chips and replace them with a small image of Steve Jobs. The GeForce FX 5200 in my 12" PowerBook runs UT2004 at 500fps. I don't know what you're talking about. Go back to the Wintel world, fanboi.

- <groan> I only ordered a pallet-full of the old 17" PowerBooks yesterday!!!

- You fool. You should have followed the PowerBook rumours. They've all been 100% reliable. We've had new PowerBooks released every Tuesday since January, you idiot!!!

Does anyone else want to add anything else?

I don't post much but i gotta say.....Hilarious! keep it up, best post of any powerbook thread....ever :D
 
chasingapple said:
WANT WANT WANT WANT, good lord to you hear yourselves? I admit I read these rantings cause they provide e with entertainment, but cmon, lol. You guys are bitching for the sake of Bitching! Had Apple released a 1.6ghz G5 you would claim they should have put a 1.8 or 2.0 in it. Or the Display would not be updated and you would bitch about that, or the damn Superdrive would not have been fast enough, blah blah blah.

If you really are that pissed either get over it or head back to the Windows world, Bill is waiting for you. OS X is so god damn efficient that even a 1Ghz G4 is blazing fast, wake up people.

Couldn't have said it better myself. :)
 
fatbarstard said:
I don't care about getting flamed but I care about heat...

Look people... the G5 is a great chip and a real advance over what can be done with systems etc etc... but the thing is like a mini furnace!!! It pumps out heat like there is no tomorrow. Now those who are brave enough to run a PB G4 on their bare knees will appreaciate that any increase in heat has got to be a very bad thing.

Are you sure about the G5 heat dissipation, especially the newer PowerPC 970FX? My understanding is that the G5 isn't a whole lot hotter than the G4. The huge heatsink and fans in the G5 PowerMac are designed that way to allow near-silent cooling of the entire system, rather than to cope with a furnace-like heat output from the G5. The G5 certainly runs much cooler than some of the Pentium 4 chips currently used in shipping x86 notebooks.

According to an article on the PowerPC 970 from arstechnica (link below), the original 0.13um 1.8GHz G5 CPU produces 42 watts...compared to the 2.8GHz Pentium 4 which produces 68.4 watts, and the 1GHz G4e which produces 30 watts. So you're looking at less than a 50% increase in heat output for an 80% increase in core frequency. It also mentions that at 1.2GHz, the first-gen PowerPC 970 produces only 19W...11W less than a G4e running at a 200MHz slower clock speed. The newer 0.09um 970FX G5s will be cooler than this, but as was highlighted in the recent Apple financial results conference call, is being held up because of manufacturing delays at IBM.

I should just clarify this...I'm not saying that heat issues with the G5 probably aren't going to be a major factor in the redesign of the PowerBook G5...I'm just saying that from what I've read, it doesn't seem that the G5 chip actually is 'the mini furnace' that many people claim. It's actually quite a bit cooler than CPUs already being used in common x86 notebooks. It shouldn't be an insurmountable issue for Apple...and I think 'G5 heat issues' are a red herring in a lot of product discussions around here too. As I mentioned before, it seems that PowerMac G5 updates are more likely delayed because of chip shortages from IBM, rather than the oft-repeated reason in these forums of "Apple can't keep the faster G5s cool!!!! OMFG!!!! HOT HOT HOT!!!!"

Does anyone have more up-to-date heat dissipation figures for the PowerPC 970 and the new PowerPC 970FX?

http://www.arstechnica.com/cpu/02q2/ppc970/ppc970-1.html
 
Hm

Well I think that the reason for this speed dumb was just to make a bigger thing out of the new ATI 9700 64/128MB

The cards that were on the G4 PB before was crap. But now it is the best you can get. The CPU you juse is almost never over 1,33Ghz. But it is always nice to have som bakcup.

Go apple.
 
Brandon Sharitt said:
If IBM can get two PowerPC 970s in a blade server, why can't Apple get one in a laptop!

even apple themselves have gotten two of those babies into a blade server... the expertise is definitely there...
 
deepkid said:
There are other similar scenarios whereby a G5 powerbook with true bandwidth and ability to offer more RAM would be welcomed with open arms.
Current PowerBooks would be able to support more RAM if more RAM slots were added. The current models can address 4GB RAM. They have two SODIMM slots. Are you telling me that someone is holding a pair of SODIMMs, each with a capacity greater than 2GB, and wondering when they'll be able to install them into a PowerBook? Not likely.

The largest PC2700 SODIMM I can find on Crucial's web site is 1GB. And let me tell you, a current model PowerBook can handle a pair of those with no problem, if you can afford the associated price tag. Would make the thing fly, too, since (assuming a majority of these "It's too slow" whiners aren't actually keeping an eye on the CPU usage) in my experience the real bottleneck while running Pro apps is in swapping memory to disk and back. Need even more? Just wait until the 2GB SODIMMs become available, and install a pair of those. Still no problem with the current models.

While I agree that the newest series of processors will eventually make it into the PowerBook, I don't agree that it's overdue or even due now. That's not to say that nobody needs a faster computer. Everybody wants a faster computer, some people even really need a faster computer. Just wait until the technology is available and suitable for use in a portable. If you really need raw power now, then you can buy a real workhorse big iron UNIX workstation or compute server for many many times the cost of any desktop.
 
gskiser said:
First, I wouldn't put much stock in the "two year" comparison to the G4. Its this guys job to do the PR spin. As another poster pointed out, if PBG5's were being released tomorrow, this guy would still plug the G4 until morning. What He's a marketing executive doing an interview on the day they released refreshed PBG4's. What's he going to say, 'Yeah, the G4 is on it's last leg and this update is really just to keep sales going until the PBG5 is released in a few months. But please, dont let that discourage you from plunking down a couple grand on these beautiful "new" G4PBs. He's got to allude to a time far off (2 years), otherwise, there's no justification for buying one of these updated models. They said the same thing about the G3 in ibooks last year. When questioned about the possibility of a G4 iBook they replied with something to the effect that 'we believe the G3 has a lot of life left in it.' Yeah right, like any of us believed that. Though I knew that statement was garbage, they actually put the G4 in the iBook sooner that I expected. I wasn't expecting a G4 in the iBook until the PBG5 it.

Secondly, I've heard many people say that we don't truly 'need' the power of a PBG5 and that the G4 can handle everyday tasks. This is true, we don't 'need' that much power yet. In addition, those same people throw out accusations that we're just vain in wanting the "latest and newest technology". While this may be true for some, it is not for all. People making those claims are forgetting the users like me who upgrade once only 5-6 years. I'm currently on an iBook 366mghz G3 and am ready to upgrade. I've filled my hard drive with Photos and Music and have finally maxed out this computer. While I don't need the power of a G5 today, and could get by with a G4, I'm looking ahead long term. I cannot afford to upgrade every 2 years like some, and I want a powerbook that is going to last me 5+ years. I don't see this future for the G4. The G5 and 64bit is the direction Apple is moving. While the OS X may not support 64bit for another year (or maybe even more), that is the direction we're going, and I want a computer that can support that growth. Its not the raw processing power of the G5 I want, but rather it's potential to take advantate of the direction Apple is headed. My G3 has served me well, but is on its last leg. I got 6 years out of it. I just don't see the PBG4s as having this type of longevity at this point. I could care less about the 'power' of the G5, I just want it because it's not going to be an obsolete processor in a year. The G4 is going the direction of the G3.

Finally, the PBG5 could come in June or it could come in Jan. Who knows. Either way, it's going to make it to the PB faster than the G4 did. The 2yr analogy doesn't hold water. That was several years ago, a different time. Technology has changed. Portables were not as commonplace, and we're seeing a trend of people wanting the portability over the desktop. This is going to speed things up. Plus, back when then, they didn't have the Xserve. We know that they can get a G5 in a small thin enclosure and control the heat. Not to say that PBG5's are around the corner simply because of the Xserve, but it's not going to be any two years. I agree with others who said 'if you need a PB now, buy it now', 'if you can wait, wait'. I desperately want one, but cannot force myself to pay for a processor thats on its way out the door. Waiting only a few months to purchase a PB could result in a few years of extra use. A PBG4, I may get a good 2 years. A PBG5, I definitely get 5-6 years out of it. Given what I've said, I don't think the PBG5 is as far off as the marketing clown leads us to believe. I understand that if you wait for the newest technology, you'll always be waiting. However, in the case of where we know the G4 is on its way out, a few months patience now could result in years of extra use.


I really second that. Everything you said makes sense to me and I agree on it. I am in a similar situation. I currently use an iBook G3 900Mhz which works still perfect for me. I have no need for that much speed, but I have a need for a computer that lasts 5-7 years. I will not purchase old technology thats outdated soon after I bought it. That happened to me already with the G3. And of course I don't blame Apple for progress.
 
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