PowerBook Updates in September?

[Lord Kythe]

I sure hope not! I just got mine for College! Apple why couldn't you do this before school started?!

As far as I know, the Apple Expo events (with the exact dates) are clearly listed and easily accessible through Apple.com's hot news page.

Why would one buy a PB in mid August when there's such a major event in September?

Don't tell me your school requires that you have a laptop or you'll be thrown out!

I wonder... But I argue that one who does this brought it upon him/herself and shouldn't complain!

 

[SurfAddict]

The real thing about this whole intel switch is that in all reality users like me who bought a brand new PB on the last update(see sig) will likely be shut out in 2 years time. I planned on really stretching the use of this thing as far as I could hopefully 3-4 years and now I think that 2 years is looking what is probably more likely which kinda sucks after putting over 3g's into a machine even with the student discount. Whats worse is that h.264 isnt even really playable without all sorts of stutter on this book its kinda depressing since its basically the reason I bought Tiger, I knew I wouldn't reallisticly be able to render or create h.264 but I figured I would at least be able to play it back. But after all that its not like I regret buying it I had been waiting for the next update since rev c was intro and when these things came out I was on it in the first hour, so it gets what I need done for now but it looks like I'll be getting a new machine not as far down the road which will suck to pay for but will be great to use

 

[hvfsl]

The real thing about this whole intel switch is that in all reality users like me who bought a brand new PB on the last update(see sig) will likely be shut out in 2 years time. I planned on really stretching the use of this thing as far as I could hopefully 3-4 years and now I think that 2 years is looking what is probably more likely which kinda sucks after putting over 3g's into a machine even with the student discount. Whats worse is that h.264 isnt even really playable without all sorts of stutter on this book its kinda depressing since its basically the reason I bought Tiger, I knew I wouldn't reallisticly be able to render or create h.264 but I figured I would at least be able to play it back. But after all that its not like I regret buying it I had been waiting for the next update since rev c was intro and when these things came out I was on it in the first hour, so it gets what I need done for now but it looks like I'll be getting a new machine not as far down the road which will suck to pay for but will be great to use

Even if your computer was faster enough to play H.264, you wouldn't be able to watch HD-DVDs/BlueRay movies because you only have a DVD drive and it will probably be a year or 2 before they make them small enough to fit in a PowerBook.

Although 720p H.264 should be playable on your PowerBook and there may be help in the future from ATI because there was a suggestion that current ATI cards can decode H.264 video using the pixel shaders (IIRC).

 

[jc27]

As far as I know, the Apple Expo events (with the exact dates) are clearly listed and easily accessible through Apple.com's hot news page.

Why would one buy a PB in mid August when there's such a major event in September?

Don't tell me your school requires that you have a laptop or you'll be thrown out!

I wonder... But I argue that one who does this brought it upon him/herself and shouldn't complain!

I think Apple's move of waiting until right after the back-to-school rush to introduce a new powerbook is pretty irritating, especially since laptops are such a necessity in universities. People have every right to complain that Apple appears to by introducing a relatively minor update at such a big event, which is usually reserved for items of bigger caliber (the iMac, anyone?) So there's no reason to be so cold, Lord Kythe.

 

[Rod Rod]

The real thing about this whole intel switch is that in all reality users like me who bought a brand new PB on the last update(see sig) will likely be shut out in 2 years time.

You are very unlikely to be shut out in two years' time. Look at the OS 9 to OS X transition first by way of dual-boot and Classic, then Classic only. That took about four years. This transition will be seamless in comparison. Universal binaries will have you covered for at least the next four years because software companies will want to sell to the massive installed base of PPC Macs, even as they accommodate the newer Intel-based Macs.

As for H.264, you should get great playback results (with high quality and really small file sizes) on lower-resolution movies, such as standard definition DVD rips and such.

Even if your computer was faster enough to play H.264, you wouldn't be able to watch HD-DVDs/BlueRay movies because you only have a DVD drive and it will probably be a year or 2 before they make them small enough to fit in a PowerBook.

Although 720p H.264 should be playable on your PowerBook and there may be help in the future from ATI because there was a suggestion that current ATI cards can decode H.264 video using the pixel shaders (IIRC).

1. Current iMac G5s and Power Mac G5s can play HD-DVDs authored with DVD Studio Pro 4, burned onto regular red-laser single / double-layer DVDs and played back with DVD Player 4.6.

2. I hope you're right about that, but it's been so long and we don't even have GPU-accelerated MPEG2 decoding on Macs even though (at the moment) every single current Mac graphics card has the capability.

 

[bit density]

I planned on really stretching the use of this thing as far as I could

Dude, this isn't a car. And the economics of Macs is different than even on the PC side. Functionality, speed, and capability always go up. The questions is where are you going to find yourself on the continueum. You like the high end. Now you could say spend every 3500 every three years. At the beginning of that time you are the man, and at the end of three years you feel forced to upgrade because there just is only so much that you can do. And at the end of that three years your computer loses much of it's value.

Instead you can upgrade regularly while your current computer has a lot of time value left in it. Then you always have the best computer and at the end of 6 years, you spent the same $7000 dollars, but you ALWAYS had the best computer.

 

[Stella]

The real thing about this whole intel switch is that in all reality users like me who bought a brand new PB on the last update(see sig) will likely be shut out in 2 years time.

Sigh..... you need to think a bit more...

There are far too many PPC Macs for apple to drop support in a short space of time - which two years is. Not even apple would upset a large proportion of its customers this way. PPC Macs will be supported for *years* yet by Apple. G3 Macs are still supported, and they've not been sold for a while now.

When Apple do start selling Intel Macs people are not going to throw away their current Mac and buy the Intel instantly. This won't happen instantly, it will take time - just like the hangers on to OS 9.

PPC Macs will be the largest proportion of Mac user base for several years to come.

Apple have been through processor transitions before, they know how to manage it. Dropping support for existing processors in a short space of time is not going to be good business sense.

 

[manu chao]

G4s certainly can "do HD." You can create HD content on G4s, whether it's DVCProHD, HDV or Apple Intermediate Codec (AIC).

What you're confused about is playback of HD H.264 material, which takes a bit more CPU effort. Current PowerBooks can play DVCProHD, HDV and AIC material just fine.

Does anybody know whether Pentium M notebooks can playback H.264? (Or is H.264 not available yet for Windows? I remember that QT 7 was released only as a beta for Windows not so long ago, and apparently at least within QT, vers. 7 is necessary for H.264.)

 

[Rod Rod]

Does anybody know whether Pentium M notebooks can playback H.264? (Or is H.264 not available yet for Windows? I remember that QT 7 was released only as a beta for Windows not so long ago, and apparently at least within QT, vers. 7 is necessary for H.264.)

Even cell phones can play back H.264. QT 7 on Windows shouldn't have any trouble. You probably meant to say "HD material in H.264," in which case you could figure out whether any Pentium M is as fast as a dual 2.8GHz Xeon.
link

 

[iQuit]

Why would they even update with such a little boost? I need a new laptop (high end) for highschool this year and need it almost right away for projects and such, my laptop is starting to get old too. What is the chance of an update and should I just get the 17" now or wait till September, is the wait worth it....I will wait but only if there is a big chance...please help.

 

[manu chao]

Dude, this isn't a car. And the economics of Macs is different than even on the PC side. Functionality, speed, and capability always go up. The questions is where are you going to find yourself on the continueum. You like the high end. Now you could say spend every 3500 every three years. At the beginning of that time you are the man, and at the end of three years you feel forced to upgrade because there just is only so much that you can do. And at the end of that three years your computer loses much of it's value.

Instead you can upgrade regularly while your current computer has a lot of time value left in it. Then you always have the best computer and at the end of 6 years, you spent the same $7000 dollars, but you ALWAYS had the best computer.

I get the point of your argument but I do not think the numbers add up quite that nicely:

Strategy 1: Buy a new one every year, total cost: 6*3500 = 21'000, sell a one year old laptop for 2500 every year, total revenue: 6*2500 = 15'000. Overall cost: $6000

Strategy 2: Buy a new one every three years, total cost: 2*3500 = 7000, sell a three year old laptop every three years, total revenue: 2*1000 = 2000.
Overall cost: $5000

And that is using assumptions trying to support your argument. One could easily make 2000 out of that 2500 and the difference would be $4000 and not $1000 dollars. It would be much harder to justify the assumption that a three year old former top of the line laptop would sell for only $500, the necessary condition to equalize the two strategies.

Sorry, there must be a monetary benefit for forgoing the benefits of always having the top of the line gear (Strategy 2 instead of Strategy 1) or something is wrong in marketplace.

 

[Squire]

Why would they even update with such a little boost? I need a new laptop (high end) for highschool this year and need it almost right away for projects and such, my laptop is starting to get old too. What is the chance of an update and should I just get the 17" now or wait till September, is the wait worth it....I will wait but only if there is a big chance...please help.

The thought of needing a laptop for high school is a scary one. I guess I'm showing my age. Well, based on what you say, you already have a laptop, albeit an outdated one. Why not wait until the 3rd or 4th week of school to order one? I doubt you'd be doing anything really intensive in that short time, would you?

As someone else posted about half a dozen pages ago, this will be the best of the G4s. Think of the areas where the current PBs could be improved and they likely will be for this last (?) revision.

Squire

 

[iQuit]

Ok here is what I think.

1.PPC has great processors and pretty much made the current Mac what it is.

2.WTF about the MHz myth?

3. Pipelines... What about multitasking and Photoshop and 3D rendering with the new switch?

4. Who thinks the Motorola chipsets rocks and Apple should of stayed with them?

5. Who thinks that at all if there should be a new switch that it should be AMD? Like AMD mobile chips rock.

6. Who can't stand not living without a dual core PB and thinks Leopard will own Vista....and is pissed off about Windows stealing features like spotlight and the GUI?

-That is all.

 

[shawnce]

Why would they even update with such a little boost?

If that little boost (30MHz) takes things to 1.7 GHz it likely means (as others have said) that Apple is going to a 8.5 clock multiplier which means the FSB is likely going from 166 MHz to 200MHz (whole or half multipliers are much more common then any others). That boost in FSB throughput will help current G4s, which are starved for data when processing many types of tasks.

So that little 30MHz bump could mean a 20% bump in FSB which means an improvement for the system as whole, one greater then what you would see from a small 30MHz change.

 

[oskar]

As far as I know, the Apple Expo events (with the exact dates) are clearly listed and easily accessible through Apple.com's hot news page.

Why would one buy a PB in mid August when there's such a major event in September?

Don't tell me your school requires that you have a laptop or you'll be thrown out!

I wonder... But I argue that one who does this brought it upon him/herself and shouldn't complain!

Otherwise they risk getting cold and useless comments such as these. People (some) buy their computers according to their needs.
And you might be surprised, there are some universities that do make you (or the person who pays your education) sign a form which says that they realize that the students education (some careers) require a portable computer and they'll do what they can for the student to have one.

 

[BGil]

Even cell phones can play back H.264. QT 7 on Windows shouldn't have any trouble. You probably meant to say "HD material in H.264," in which case you could figure out whether any Pentium M is as fast as a dual 2.8GHz Xeon.
link

Yes, any of the newer ones can playback HD res H.264. Its pretty slow in QT7 because QT7 is a POS but any of the other h.264 compatible players will play it just fine. H.264 was available and running smoothly on PC about a year and a half before QT7 was released. Apple is pretty late to the H.264 game but most Mac users simply don't know that.

2.WTF about the MHz myth?

Apple will try to use it against AMD now

3. Pipelines... What about multitasking and Photoshop and 3D rendering with the new switch?

Until those apps go native and the OS gets a lot of SSE3 and 64-bit optimizations it's going to suck for people doing higher-level work. Photoshop will run slow, 3D apps will run slower, and multitasking will suck. It's not like Pentium M's have ever been great in those areas anyway.

 

[shawnce]

Ok here is what I think.
1.PPC has great processors and pretty much made the current Mac what it is.

Yes but it is far from the only thing that makes a Mac a Mac, in fact it likely is the least important in many ways.

2.WTF about the MHz myth?

What about it? It still is a myth that clock rate is the only thing that tells you the performance of a system. The Intel chips Apple will be using will running at clock rates not all that different then what we see for PPC currently and in the near future. Apple IS NOT going to use the netburst based Intel chips (the P4 family).

3. Pipelines... What about multitasking and Photoshop and 3D rendering with the new switch?

The Intel chips Apple will use will not be that radically different then PPC (G5 in particular) in the depth (number of pipeline stages) and width (number of functional units). Again not using netburst. Also expect dual core to be all but standard and all with SSE3 (SIMD on par with Altivec).

4. Who thinks the Motorola chipsets rocks and Apple should of stayed with them?

I don't. IBM has better stuff in the PPC family currently.

5. Who thinks that at all if there should be a new switch that it should be AMD? Like AMD mobile chips rock.

The Intel chips that Apple will be using will perform rather well in raw performance and performance per watts in comparison to the AMD chips available at the same time. Regardless it is good to have competition pushing things forward, something that will help Apple. Also AMD will technically be an option for Apple if they want to use chips from AMD at some point in the future.

 

[cbr600rr]

I agree. When was the last update that was actually impressive? (The G5 iMacs and new Mac Mini's were the last couple I can remember that impressed me)

So sad, but so true.

 

[oskar]

Whats worse is that h.264 isnt even really playable without all sorts of stutter on this book its kinda depressing since its basically the reason I bought Tiger, I knew I wouldn't reallisticly be able to render or create h.264 but I figured I would at least be able to play it back. But after all that its not like I regret buying it I had been waiting for the next update since rev c was intro and when these things came out I was on it in the first hour, so it gets what I need done for now but it looks like I'll be getting a new machine not as far down the road which will suck to pay for but will be great to use

I think someone already responded to this... H.264 is playable but only up to a certain resolution on PowerBooks (without loosing frames). The RAM you have also determines this. From what I can see in your signature, you have the best playback capabilities anyone can get from a PowerBook, which I wouldn't doubt is at least 720P H.264 video. My PowerBook with 1 GB of RAM plays 720P H.264 at frame rates between 20 and 24 fps. I haven't tried playing back at a higher resolution or frame rate, though, which would obviously be slower.

 

[shyataroo]

Ok here is what I think.

1.

PPC has great processors and pretty much made the current Mac what it is.

Great processors but, they take too long to get faster.

2.

WTF about the MHz myth?

The MHz Myth is interesting story, Back in (I think it was 99) Apple was REALLY REALLY lagging behind in CPU Hz speeds (AMD had just made a 1GHz Processor and Apple was still at around 500MHz So they devised a new marketing scheme which was simply this: Don't believe that higher clock speeds mean faster processor, while it is a necessity to have fast clock speeds there are other factors that make a CPU faster in fact that is one of the least important parts. (PPC's use A type of microprocessor that recognizes only a limited number of instructions. It's the opposite of the standard PC which is CISC (Complex Instruction Set Computer). RISC computers can execute their instructions very fast because the instructions are so simple. Also, RISC chips as easier to make (as they require fewer transistors.)
3.

Pipelines... What about multitasking and Photoshop and 3D rendering with the new switch?

OS X Has always Included Preemptive Multitasking which is a task in which a computer operating system uses some criteria to decide how long to allocate to any one task before giving another task a turn to use the operating system. The act of taking control of the operating system from one task and giving it to another task is called preempting. A common criterion for preempting is simply elapsed time (this kind of system is sometimes called time sharing or time slicing). In some operating systems, some applications can be given higher priority than other applications, giving the higher priority programs control as soon as they are initiated and perhaps longer time slices. That kind of things make photoshop faster, also, Photoshop for MacTel will probbably just be photoshop for intel except ported to mac OS X. so it will no longer take advantage of the Altivec velocity engine but it will take advantage of the Intel version of it) as for 3D Rendering it will pretty much be the same as with the photoshop thing.

4. Who thinks the Motorola chipsets rocks and Apple should of stayed with them?

Just you. Motorola still hasn't broken the 2GHz Barrier, and the FSB is only 167MHz its older and has been under development since before the G5 was released and they still can't beat it. Motorola sucks right now.
5.

Who thinks that at all if there should be a new switch that it should be AMD? Like AMD mobile chips rock.

Apple Said AMD couldn't supply them with what they liked and Apple apparently also looked at the CELL processor (which they underestimate) and said that it wasn't ready for computer use.

6. Who can't stand not living without a dual core PB and thinks Leopard will own Vista....and is pissed off about Windows stealing features like spotlight and the GUI?

A Dual Core PB would be still slower than a low power G5 (as the FSB of the G5 runs at half the processor speed whereas with the G4 it runs at about 1/10th so even if you had two front side busses (one per core) it still would be 1/5th as fast as a G5. Leopard will of course own vista as Tiger owns vista right now (and as time goes on vista is getting less and less features) Windows Steals features but Apple stole the GUI from Xerox and the mouse. and Apple stole the idea of making a cheap computer from IBM DELL COMPAQ (AKA Amiga) and basically every other PC company. Apple stole the idea for a browser built specifically for one OS only Apple Stole the idea of having a portable Mp3 player. Apple stole their name from Apple Inc. which is a record label that The Beatles were signed to. Apple stole the idea of Apple works from Word Perfect. so in conclusion everyone steals from everyone thats how the OS wars work.

-That is all.[/QUOTE]

 

[BGil]

What about it? It still is a myth that clock rate is the only thing that tells you the performance of a system. The Intel chips Apple will be using will running at clock rates not all that different then what we see for PPC currently and in the near future. Apple IS NOT going to use the netburst based Intel chips (the P4 family).

I'm betting that Apple will use P4's because currently they are Intel's highest performing chips. The Pentium M based stuff isn't going to take over until well into 2007 if ever.
If Apple want's 64-bit then they'll have to use a P4 and if they care about floating point operations then they'll use one as well. Not to mention that P4's are cheaper than Pentium M's.

Windows Steals features but Apple stole the GUI from Xerox and the mouse.

Didn't Apple license it from Xerox?

Apple stole the idea of Apple works from Word Perfect.

Didn't Apple buy Claris and Claris Works?

 

[shawnce]

I'm betting that Apple will use P4's because currently they are Intel's highest performing chips. The Pentium M based stuff isn't going to take over until well into 2007 if ever.

I just don't see it happening. The P4 (NetBurst) is dead by the end of 2006 (literarily) and already likely dead from Apple's point-of-view.

If Apple want's 64-bit then they'll have to use a P4 and if they care about floating point operations then they'll use one as well. Not to mention that P4's are cheaper than Pentium M's.

Again P4 is dead in the time frame Apple will be releasing MacIntels desktop systems (unless they release desktop systems using Intel first, which I just don't see happening given the legs left in the G5 for the desktop). What is coming in the late 2006 time frame will perform well (including in floating point), have the option of dual core and have the option for EM64T.

Look over...
Mike's Hardware - 2006 Roadmap
Intel to unveil Pentium 4 successor at IDF

EDIT: When I typed "desktop" above I mean in general Power Mac class systems not iMacs or Mac mini.

 

[BGil]

Again P4 is dead in the time frame Apple will be releasing MacIntels desktop systems (unless they release desktop systems using Intel first, which I just don't see happening given the legs left in the G5 for the desktop). What is coming in the late 2006 time frame will perform well (including in floating point), have the option of dual core and have the option for EM64T.

The P4 or P5 won't be dead. The Presler core will be the proc around when Apple's starts issuing Mactels. The Conroe core hasn't been confirmed to be based on the Merom (Pentium M core aftert he Yonah) yet but I wouldn't be surprised if it's more like a Northwood p4 with EMT64 and SSE3 than the Dothan. The Northwood ran cool enough, had hyperthreading, ran at speeds up to 3.4/3.6ghz, and had a higher IPC than the Prescott. Intel still needs to use the megahertz myth if they want to hold off AMD and the Pentium M in desktop form isn't going to do that.

I think the iMac will be one of the first to make the move. A dual core p4 will be perfect for an iMac. It's cheap and the power requirements are similar to the G5 they are already using. Not to mention it's already 64-bit.

Looking at the price and heat output of G4's I don't see dual core Yonah's fitting in eMacs, iBooks, and Mac Mini's. A single core version Celeron M will work but the SSE3 implementation is said to not be as good as the P4 version. And P4's are much faster at the same price points (and are 64-bit, have HT etc)

I think there's a reason that the developer Macs have P4's with HT and EMT64 in them when there are desktop Pentium M mobo's available. That's what they want developers to aim for. Yonah's and Meroms won't run in dual processor configs and the latter won't be 64-bit so I don't see them using those in PowerMacs at all.

Even with the Merom it doesn't look like the Pentium M will climb much above 2.5 ghz until 2008 at least. Seeing as Merom's won't run in dual processor configs they'll be forced to use Xeon's (P4/5 based) if they want to compete with Dell, Boxx, and AMD based workstations. A PowerMac with a Pentium M based proc before 2008 is just a recipe for failure.

 

[pelagi]

Hey guys, my 1st post. Just wanted to comment on the future design of the next gen. powerbooks. The mactel p'books should have a CFRP case in order to overcome the faraday-cage effect on 'airport' wireless, still looks 'top class' but is more functional. A solid-state storage drive would be great too, lower power usage and better performance (as I am lead to believe). Also cannot argue with the possibility of the wuxga HD screen either. I think the processor specs are trivial and what makes a great portable is the 'auxillary' features and OS (tiger rox) to give it all round usability. My 2 bob, what would the rest of you like to see in the next generation of powerbook (apart from the processor). cheers

 

[fyzle]

I just hope they give the 12" a better screen. The viewing angle is incredibly horrid.