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PowerBook Updates in September?
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We'll see...im skeptical..but if it happens i will be kinda bummed cause i just bought at PB!! i do love it though...best system i could imagine...so if it acutally happens i think it will be really sweet...
Personally I can't see them going to 2 GHZ until Intel Insides, just so its another thing to brag and get people to purchase the 1st Gen one (since many might be skeptical about a rocky transition, 2 GHZ would be awfull tempting). Also, I could see the 17" and maybe higher end 15" if its still around coming with a 1 Gig-Ram built-in standard with a 100+ GB Hard Drive and who knows what else (dual-layer DVD drive and enhanced graphics cards, hopefully!). But most importantly, to me at least, cooler operation (none of this 142-degree nutsac-burners) and greater battery life (4 and a half on the 17" and 6+ on the 12" if its still around, if not 5 and a half on the 15" would be more then fine with me!). That being said, we're not rumoring about those yet huh? As for the update in September, or the next one, I think it will be about as minor/major as the recent iBook ones. Maybe a better graphics card (especially in the 12" if they keep it around), and I hope for better resolution screens which the iBook's didn't get. Just something of that sort to set them further apart. And if they don't keep the 12", have a affordable 15"-er or a widescreen 13"er could be pretty sweet. I'd even dig a widescreen 12 if they dare. But the 14" iBook and higher end 15" and 17" are seperated enough still, maybe price drops would do the trick. As for the lower end 15" and 12", I think they may see quite a bit of compitition from the new iBooks as is. Lastly but not Least, these updates are rumored to come out before the free iPod mini promotion is over right? That be pretty sweet but really would have to order quickly to work it out. But I wouldn't be half suprised to see the powerbook updates come out like a day after the iPod mini promotion, just because its kind of what i expect from apple. But if not, and if the update is on par with the iBook update rather then say... the mac mini update, then this could be pretty sweet. A decently updated PowerBook and free iPod mini just in time for school (which starts on the 29th for me i believe), I'd be feeling it. But not nearly as much as I'm feeling Intel-Powerbooks in another 6 months to a year! 
G4s certainly can "do HD." You can create HD content on G4s, whether it's DVCProHD, HDV or Apple Intermediate Codec (AIC).Chundles said:
What you're confused about is playback of HD H.264 material, which takes a bit more CPU effort. Current PowerBooks can play DVCProHD, HDV and AIC material just fine.
Plecky said:Lastly but not Least, these updates are rumored to come out before the free iPod mini promotion is over right? That be pretty sweet but really would have to order quickly to work it out. But I wouldn't be half suprised to see the powerbook updates come out like a day after the iPod mini promotion, just because its kind of what i expect from apple. But if not, and if the update is on par with the iBook update rather then say... the mac mini update, then this could be pretty sweet. A decently updated PowerBook and free iPod mini just in time for school (which starts on the 29th for me i believe), I'd be feeling it. But not nearly as much as I'm feeling Intel-Powerbooks in another 6 months to a year!
The free iPod Mini promotion is good through September 24th. Paris is 20-23rd I believe. I sure how they overlap, cause I want them both.
ZorPrime said:
OK, am I just an idiot or isnt it true that you need a decent bus speed to take any advantage of DDR anything?? I mean 167mhz......I've seen more interesting things come out of my dog. What Im asking is does it matter how high the RAM clock rate is if the bus can't even handle it?
/Will wait for the Intels to come out
djeddiebear said:
Aaahh!! I could have swore the deadline was September 29th, so my thinking was that I could buy a new Powerbook in that 6-day window. Guess I'll have to keep my current iPod and be happy with a hopefully new 15in Powerbook.
Small PB bumps and badder PMs
As I said before, what we'll see at the Apple Expo is the following:
- Bigger, badder PMs with 970MP and new form factor;
- Small speed updates in PBs and addition of other minor features, probably with HD display/capability in the top-line model (17");
- New iPod Minis with color screen;
- New iPod Shuffles with higher capacity (2Gb, probably);
- Major updates to iWork and other Apple softs.
The big NOs:
- NO updates to iMac G5, Mac Mini and XServe; in addition, EOL for the eMac;
- NO PB G5;
- NO PB Intel.
That's all.
As I said before, what we'll see at the Apple Expo is the following:
- Bigger, badder PMs with 970MP and new form factor;
- Small speed updates in PBs and addition of other minor features, probably with HD display/capability in the top-line model (17");
- New iPod Minis with color screen;
- New iPod Shuffles with higher capacity (2Gb, probably);
- Major updates to iWork and other Apple softs.
The big NOs:
- NO updates to iMac G5, Mac Mini and XServe; in addition, EOL for the eMac;
- NO PB G5;
- NO PB Intel.
That's all.
Stridder44 said:
Yeah, I was wondering that too.
The bus speed of the latest Pentium M (Alviso?) is 533 MHz and so is the DDR2 RAM running at 533 MHz (duh). I guess the bus for this type of RAM is communicating at full speed to the processor? Wow.
So if the next PowerBooks go with this, it will be to achieve feature parity with the WinBlowz lappies.
$1999 (US) for a 15" PowerBook with no SuperDrive is sounding expensive nowadays when the WinDoze laptops are offering Dual Layer DVD burning for half the price.
Still, wouldn't be a bad thing, if the next PowerBooks sported these features, just to give the impression that its feature set is up-to-date:
- PCI Express x16 Graphics
- Dual-Layer DVD-R/W
- DDR2 533 MHz RAM
- High-resolution screens
- 802.11 a/b/g
- Internal Mobile Wireless Card Option a la Sony T350?
Sadly, I have a gut feeling that this next PowerBook update will make me yawn long.
I agree. I am 100% sure Apple has a very nice update coming for the PowerMac based on PPC (it has been ready for a while based on what I heard, Intel announcement surprised these folks) and it could be as soon as you outline. I believe the last PM bump was simply a filler to extend the timeline for the PM a little to better line it up with the Intel release plans and build supplies for the new PPC PowerMacs. Apple is going to milk the PPC PM for as long as they can given the chips they likely want to use from Intel wont be around until late 2006 / early 2007 (the current developer x86 box in a PM G5 case is far from what they want for an Intel based PM).BRLawyer said:
Agreed. Small speed bump with expansion of other features. Again trying to milk existing hardware with what they can get CPU wise until the Intel switch starting early next year. We could how be surprised with a nice upgrade, but not likely.BRLawyer said:
Not so sure on this one. I believe we will see updated iPod firmware to expand video, image, etc. display in support of iTunes features (music videos, media rich podcasts, etc.). At least some time in the near future.BRLawyer said:
I would love to see existing capacities at slightly lower prices. More capacity really isn't needed that much for the usage model of the iPod shuffle.BRLawyer said:
Yeah it has been a while. We should see something in this space.BRLawyer said:
oops
Yeah, you're right, I forgot about that.
Still, I can't believe Apple would release a new powerbook at just 1.7ghz.
Especially, when the new chip has been built on the 90 nanometer process.
Note: Freescale lists the 7447A max cpu cycles as: 1420, yet Apple sells one running at 1670.
What's really interesting is that BareFeet's benchmarks of the G5 at 2.7 ghz does Very Well against Intel's Pentium D. When it comes to the G5 IBM is either the Best Chip Builder in the Busines or Number 2( possibly behind AMD by a hair, but, that's debatable. )
If only IBM could have built a Dual Core Laptop G5....
Azerty said:
Yeah, you're right, I forgot about that.
Still, I can't believe Apple would release a new powerbook at just 1.7ghz.
Especially, when the new chip has been built on the 90 nanometer process.
Note: Freescale lists the 7447A max cpu cycles as: 1420, yet Apple sells one running at 1670.
What's really interesting is that BareFeet's benchmarks of the G5 at 2.7 ghz does Very Well against Intel's Pentium D. When it comes to the G5 IBM is either the Best Chip Builder in the Busines or Number 2( possibly behind AMD by a hair, but, that's debatable. )
If only IBM could have built a Dual Core Laptop G5....
MikeAtari said:
Yup the G5 (PPC970, PPC970fx) are great CPUs. If the revs to the PPC970 family could have kept up with what appears Apple (and presumably IBM) thought they would be doing they would have been on top against the competition performance wise. Also the Power5, another IBM processor, is IMHO the best high-end server CPU in the industry at the moment. The PPC970MP is also likely a great CPU and hopefully we will get a chance to use it in a Power Mac soon.
The PPC and Power ISA (instruct set architectures) are IMHO superior to x86 and x86-64 (AMD / Intel call it different things) in many aspects. Altivec is superior to what x86 has had (however SSE3 is basically on par now).
I think most of us, including Apple, would love to continue going forward with the PPC line but Apple has simply been hit to many times with stagnation in PPC processor advancement over the last decade(s).
At least by using Intel (and AMD remains an option) Apple won't be any worse then what is available in the main stream personal computing world at any given time (within a product release cycle).
It will also help with acceptance of Apple hardware since it will be built using things that power most of the industry (a perception thing) and it should provide the option to run Windows, Linux, etc. either in a multi-boot, virtual machine configuration, (unless Apple system are so radically different) or run Windows applications using something like WINE at native speeds.
Apple has a good chance to win market share by selling a solution like they have been but built with hardware that makes customers a little less nervous.
Stridder44 said:
Good point. If they indeed did update the bus to accomodate the faster RAM it would be pretty good. I would find it safe to assume they, Apple, would speed things up because why bother changing the RAM type without updating the RAM bus or System Bus?
Here is what I think will happen IBM, did release low power low heat G5's that could theoretically be used in laptops. Apple did say that they will be phasing out the G5 over a period of 2 years... (maybe I was just reading it wrong?)
now here is what I think will happen Apple will release PB G5's that are under-clocked from the IBM specifications (to make it even better for laptops) and Apple will release it at Macworld SF 06.
Also, if Apple can squeeze a G5 into a 2" enclosure why couldn't they squeeze the new low power/low heat G5's into a 1.5" enclosure? If Apple does release the G5 into a laptop that would mean that Apple is not going to put intel processors into Laptops until the next development cycle.
Edit: I just realized that Apple can still have G5's and Mactel's sort of a choose your weapon type deal. you can get a Tower G5 or a Tower Mactel its up to you I dunno how apple would do it but, if anyone can Apple will.
now here is what I think will happen Apple will release PB G5's that are under-clocked from the IBM specifications (to make it even better for laptops) and Apple will release it at Macworld SF 06.
Also, if Apple can squeeze a G5 into a 2" enclosure why couldn't they squeeze the new low power/low heat G5's into a 1.5" enclosure? If Apple does release the G5 into a laptop that would mean that Apple is not going to put intel processors into Laptops until the next development cycle.
Edit: I just realized that Apple can still have G5's and Mactel's sort of a choose your weapon type deal. you can get a Tower G5 or a Tower Mactel its up to you I dunno how apple would do it but, if anyone can Apple will.
Physical dimensions is only one factor for laptops the other major one is power budget. That power budget includes feeding the supporting chips used on the mother board. You need a lower power versions of the U3 lite and a Shasta chips used in the iMac G5. It is non-trivial to go from an iMac G5 with a "infinite" (in comparison to a laptop) power budget to a laptop.shyataroo said:
Is it possible to do, yes... but not as easy as you appear to think. Will Apple do it? Who knows just yet... they will have to do it soon if they are since sometime early 2006 is rapidly starting to bump up against Intel based power books.
Kelson said:
Hmmm Some of your points make sense but the thing is I guess it could go both ways.....
My point is the TIME when it was announced. It was on 7.7.05 Interesting how it was AFTER Jobs for all intents and purposes bitched at IBM on stage. An announcement doesnt mean jack if they arent providing samples to Apple. Isnt it amazing how all of a sudden IBM has this wonderful series of chips ready to go for Apple after they throw up a stink. Do I think IBM has these chips? Sure. But the announcement doesnt tell us at what stage it is in development. Until it ships I call vaporware.
Yah that occurred to me after post. There has to be some development for the chipset for the G5. However the question I have is what development has to occur AFTER a chip is delivered to Apple. Its not as if you are going to just drop a 970FX in a chipset that was built around a previous years chip and call it done. There HAS to be tweaking, beta testing in the field, etc.
Now that just doesnt make sense. What kind of credibility would Jobs have if he went on stage in June and said that IBM couldnt deliver a G5 cool enough then turns around 3 months later and release a G5 PowerBook making his reasoning look like crap. The only reason I question my thinking is this quote from WWDC
I think a lot of you would like a G5 in your PowerBook and we haven't been able to deliver that to you yet.
OK we should all be skeptical of Jobss RDF. Take what you will about yet but I still think it makes him look like an idiot if one of his reasons up and evaporates within 3 months of him making it esp if he KNOWS he has one on the way as he makes the statement. The speech could easily have stood on it own without the PowerBook comment if a G5 was in the pipe for a fall release. All the other reasons were enough.
25W is TOTAL chip. That is two cores with a shared 2MB L1 cache which beats out the 970FXs single core and 25W is peak usage. Though I havent read what speed 25W encompasses. (e.g. High end speeds, midrange, or low.) Yonah has the ability to shut down entire cores when not needed or sections of a core. So in reality its going to be MUCH less in day to day operating environments.
True. However where is the line between preventing the OE and eating into near future sales. Apple would be releasing a brand new platform which EVERYONE would jump to just to introduce a brand new platform in probably 6-8 months. Sure has hell Apple will be releasing dual core PowerBooks sometime next year. We arent talking a speedbump here. Its a jump from a G4 to a G5. How many units would Apple sell and then see fewer sales next year. Apple is trying to migrate the platform. Sure you jack up sales but at the sacrifice of getting people to jump to new systems next year.
It all boils down to point of view. Reality with as little info we have it can be argued either way. Personally I just dont see it happening. Im sticking to my 20% chance.
iDrinkKoolAid said:
Actually by the time the first Pentium M dual core sytems are out the FSB will be at 633Mhz.
shyataroo said:
I wish your IDEA would get into STEVE's BRAIN!
I'd like to see Apple release either a G5 laptop or the FREESCALE Dual Core when it comes out. Just ONE MODEL, 1 15inch Powerbook for those guys interested in writing for the Open Source PPC architecture, IBM( RS6000 / AIX ), YellowDogLinux, Cisco guys. Just 1 new Model every TWO YEARS.
Call it the Apple/Linux/PPC model. Since OS X Now has the capability to run on both architectures, then keep that going...
Build it dual boot and load Yellowdog with Linux drivers.
But, that's probably too expensive, maybe IBM could fund it as a special project???
First off, I'm a huge mac fan, but seriously, I'm very happy that when I needed a new laptop for school this fall I bought an IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad and decided to get a new mac laptop in 2-3 years after the Intel switch is over. It's fantastic in the long term that they are switching, but in the short-term the hardware is just horrible that they are releasing.
Hell, I might even try running OS X on my Thinkpad
Hell, I might even try running OS X on my Thinkpad
Double platform Macs?
I wouldn't say this is feasible in Apple's (or any other company's) eyes...but surely SJ has 2 cards up in his sleeve now, Intel and IBM.
IBM was mostly scrapped because of its lethargy in delivering good and low-powered G5s to Apple, notably in what pertains to the PowerBooks...however, as previously stated by Apple execs and SJ himself, the relationship with IBM continues to be a normal one, just like any other business. No more honeymoons; but as long as the money keeps flowing, 2 companies can be mutually benefited from their commercial interests.
But Apple is all for streamlining production, and this is the main problem with the idea above. Keeping 2 different platforms under production takes a lot of resources, and this reminds me of the great conundrum (or catastrophe) brought by the multitude of production lines back in the 90s (Centris, Quadra and Performa anyone?)...we'll see.
MikeAtari said:
I wouldn't say this is feasible in Apple's (or any other company's) eyes...but surely SJ has 2 cards up in his sleeve now, Intel and IBM.
IBM was mostly scrapped because of its lethargy in delivering good and low-powered G5s to Apple, notably in what pertains to the PowerBooks...however, as previously stated by Apple execs and SJ himself, the relationship with IBM continues to be a normal one, just like any other business. No more honeymoons; but as long as the money keeps flowing, 2 companies can be mutually benefited from their commercial interests.
But Apple is all for streamlining production, and this is the main problem with the idea above. Keeping 2 different platforms under production takes a lot of resources, and this reminds me of the great conundrum (or catastrophe) brought by the multitude of production lines back in the 90s (Centris, Quadra and Performa anyone?)...we'll see.
I sure hope not! I just got mine for College! Apple why couldn't you do this before school started?!