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PowerBook Updates in September?
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VicMacs said:if its not a G5 it's not worth it...
Well, considering IBM's recent low-power G5 chip tops out at 1.6 ghz, and considering that G4s and G5s of similar clock speeds seem to have very little difference in real-world performance, it's probably nothing to get too upset about.
I'd be very disappointed if Apple dropped the 12" PowerBook from the line. And instead of offering a souped-up iBook in aluminium skin, they should put features such as gigabit ethernet, backlit keyboard, Firewire 800 and a beefier graphics chip with 128 megs vram in order to be more in line with the rest of the PowerBook family.
I doubt there will be DDR2...I'm not sure if the Intel platform that they'll be moving to will support it, but if it doesn't than it doesn't make sense to upgrade to DDR2 just to downgrade back to 3200 after The Switch.
The 1920x1200 screen would be really nice though...and an extra 300MHz never hurt.
The 1920x1200 screen would be really nice though...and an extra 300MHz never hurt.
The Intel platform that they will move to will most likely support DDR2 because they just discontinued the old DDR mobile chipset. I can't imagine they'd move backwards to PC3200 and create a special mobile chipset for old memory technology just for Apple.
The 7448 supports DDR2, so I don't see any reasons not to move to that, only if they are creating a new motherboard design for these new G4 PowerBooks and the fact that DDR2 requires less power.
It probably seemed shorter than 9-10 months because Apple ran out of G4 iMacs a month or two before the iMac G5 was introduced.~Shard~ said:
Well if they get a 7448 chip and upgrade the display (surely the display is a fairly simple change to do? Just whack in a new high res panel?) I'll be selling my the PB in my sig and getting it as soon as its released. If its available on the day in Paris, I'll get one then! And I'm presuming a shift to a double layer faster DVD burner is a given....
I'd like an updated gpu, but looking at whats available, and presuming they don't want to change the existing format too much (which is why I'm doubting DDR2 - like folks have pointed out, whats the point with an FSB of 200) I doubt they actually will. All of the newer GPU's seem to be power hungry apart from some of the PCI-e parts which probably won't go into anything until the Intel Switch, so I doubt it will see any change. Unless there is sufficient power saved everywhere and they lob in a 9800 which would be nice as it actually has 8 pixel pipelines - hello Doom3 with decent framerates!
A better screen and longer battery life through a newer processor and I'll be happy.
I'd like an updated gpu, but looking at whats available, and presuming they don't want to change the existing format too much (which is why I'm doubting DDR2 - like folks have pointed out, whats the point with an FSB of 200) I doubt they actually will. All of the newer GPU's seem to be power hungry apart from some of the PCI-e parts which probably won't go into anything until the Intel Switch, so I doubt it will see any change. Unless there is sufficient power saved everywhere and they lob in a 9800 which would be nice as it actually has 8 pixel pipelines - hello Doom3 with decent framerates!
A better screen and longer battery life through a newer processor and I'll be happy.
Dual Core?!
What's going on here? What happened to the dual G4 that we've been waiting for? It has been listed on Frescale's site for some time now. Its fast FSB and low power should make it an ideal candidate for Apple's last incarnation of the PPC PB. I need a PB and I can't believe Apple hasn't released a refresh in time for the new academic year.
What's going on here? What happened to the dual G4 that we've been waiting for? It has been listed on Frescale's site for some time now. Its fast FSB and low power should make it an ideal candidate for Apple's last incarnation of the PPC PB. I need a PB and I can't believe Apple hasn't released a refresh in time for the new academic year.
tigertrainer said:What's going on here? What happened to the dual G4 that we've been waiting for? It has been listed on Frescale's site for some time now. Its fast FSB and low power should make it an ideal candidate for Apple's last incarnation of the PPC PB. I need a PB and I can't believe Apple hasn't released a refresh in time for the new academic year.
The MPC8641D isn't set to come out before 1H06. Freescale, like most CPU makers, has to announce its chips well before they can actually be used. Freescale's customers often need to know what they should factor in (heat, power, performance) as they produce a design.
appleinsider said:
I dont know if anyone posted this yet.... but Apple insider made a mistake! they said 300mhz when they ment 30mhz!!! thats not even worth it!!!!
Given the massice drop in LCD panels in the past couple years, and the horribly slow speeds of the powerbooks, they ought to be selling the 17" model fully stocked with awesome graphics and the largest available 7200RPM drive for $1999 max. The 12" should be no more than $999 and still be maxed out internally. consumers are moving to laptops in droves and Apple's lineup is slow and overpriced. Sales are going to tank until Mactel unless they radically alter their pricing structure. As a longtime mac lover, I coudn't in good conscience advise anyone to buy an Apple laptop right now.
tigertrainer said:What's going on here? What happened to the dual G4 that we've been waiting for? It has been listed on Frescale's site for some time now. Its fast FSB and low power should make it an ideal candidate for Apple's last incarnation of the PPC PB. I need a PB and I can't believe Apple hasn't released a refresh in time for the new academic year.
Apple is limited by the chips it has. Welcome to the reason they are switching. AS for the dual core Freescale was est a fall timeframe when they would be sampling dual core G4's. That means in reality that a shipping dual core would probably end up being next year which isn't going to happen.
w_parietti22 said:
Woah. 30Mhz. I'm actually impressed. Really. I thought they already hit the wall with overclocking the G4 as it is. If they can squeeze a bit more speed out of an already dry sponge my hat's off to Apple.
Arrgghhhhhhhh I'm due to order a PowerBook for myself like, next week. Well, I'll just make do with an old G4 until we know whether new PBs are coming. ::twitch::
Seems to me that the PowerBook line is going to suffer on the performance front (again.) The 1.67 is great ... and 1.7 would be just fine, but the lack of L3 cache will just kill the performance.
It'd be nice if they carried a L3 cache but turned it off when not attached to a power supply.
I'm right on the edge of buying one now. In fact, I know I'll want a Pentium-M Yonah PB when they're out, so maybe buying one now would spread out the cost nicely? My problem is that I have an aging desktop I don't want to put more money into b/c it's better to put that money into a new machine. I need portability for the first time in my computing history but I also want the horsepower to do 3D and video conversion... which a laptop is terrible at. Can't see having 2 Macs and 1 PC (necessity and gaming) just for myself ...
Oy.
It'd be nice if they carried a L3 cache but turned it off when not attached to a power supply.
I'm right on the edge of buying one now. In fact, I know I'll want a Pentium-M Yonah PB when they're out, so maybe buying one now would spread out the cost nicely? My problem is that I have an aging desktop I don't want to put more money into b/c it's better to put that money into a new machine. I need portability for the first time in my computing history but I also want the horsepower to do 3D and video conversion... which a laptop is terrible at. Can't see having 2 Macs and 1 PC (necessity and gaming) just for myself ...
Oy.
SiliconAddict said:
You know this really is something to consider as a PLUS for the Intel switch. For every negative I see at least 2 positives. For the first time in a long time (ever???), Apple won't have supply issues on new chips. WOW. Just think about that. And they would actually have more than 2 chip families to choose from. They could go low end, mid range, and high end even amongst a single line of processors on more than just GHz rating.
Interesting times are ahead.
Hmm....maybe....
SiliconAddict....
I usually agree pretty much with what you have to say....however there are a couple points that I'd like to make...
1. IBM did announce a 970FX that is at 16W at 1.6ghz. With the restrictive FSB on the MPC7XXX, this alone would provide a good speed bump from the current 1.6ghz G4.
2. Apple has had the G5 Powerbook in development for quite a while, that means the chipsets and boards, but the issue was IBM providing them w/ low power 970FX chips. The R&D is probably done and paid for, so the additional cost at this point is fairly minimal considering the amount already invested in this platform.
3. Jobs could not announce a Powerbook G5 at WWDC even if he had one if he was going to switch to Intel, because it would have undercut support for the switch. Now that it has sunk in, he can announce the Powerbook G5, because most people are sold on the switch. Jobs can then spin that the G5 is available now in the LP model, but that IBM really had nothing to challenge the Merom, Conroe, etc chips. It's about the future, not the currently available chips.
4. The best power consumption data I've seen for Yonah states 25W, but I'm not sure if that is per-core or total, looks like total. If Apple could not get the 970FX in there at 24.5W@1.4ghz, don't they face the same issues for the dual-core Yonah? Plus, the Merom seems more like the processor Apple would be targeting for the Power line, which keeps in line with the statement that upgrades would start at the low end, putting a Powerbook update at WWDC 06, shipping a month or two later.
5. There is a huge demand for a Powerbook G5. This would definitely prop up sales of the Powerbook until the Intel transition, preventing the Osborne effect, in that product line.
This does fit inline with Jobs comments about great things from the PPC side, supports the strategy moving forward, and definitely makes a significant segment of the customer base very happy.
- Kelson
SiliconAddict....
I usually agree pretty much with what you have to say....however there are a couple points that I'd like to make...
1. IBM did announce a 970FX that is at 16W at 1.6ghz. With the restrictive FSB on the MPC7XXX, this alone would provide a good speed bump from the current 1.6ghz G4.
2. Apple has had the G5 Powerbook in development for quite a while, that means the chipsets and boards, but the issue was IBM providing them w/ low power 970FX chips. The R&D is probably done and paid for, so the additional cost at this point is fairly minimal considering the amount already invested in this platform.
3. Jobs could not announce a Powerbook G5 at WWDC even if he had one if he was going to switch to Intel, because it would have undercut support for the switch. Now that it has sunk in, he can announce the Powerbook G5, because most people are sold on the switch. Jobs can then spin that the G5 is available now in the LP model, but that IBM really had nothing to challenge the Merom, Conroe, etc chips. It's about the future, not the currently available chips.
4. The best power consumption data I've seen for Yonah states 25W, but I'm not sure if that is per-core or total, looks like total. If Apple could not get the 970FX in there at 24.5W@1.4ghz, don't they face the same issues for the dual-core Yonah? Plus, the Merom seems more like the processor Apple would be targeting for the Power line, which keeps in line with the statement that upgrades would start at the low end, putting a Powerbook update at WWDC 06, shipping a month or two later.
5. There is a huge demand for a Powerbook G5. This would definitely prop up sales of the Powerbook until the Intel transition, preventing the Osborne effect, in that product line.
This does fit inline with Jobs comments about great things from the PPC side, supports the strategy moving forward, and definitely makes a significant segment of the customer base very happy.
- Kelson
Nice...but overdue
I really hope that besides the faster CPU, also frontside bus will get a much needed boost, I am not talking a few Mhz, but at least 100 or 200 Mhz more!
Otherwise the Powerbook will remain no match for many newer Wintel notebooks. The PB is still one of the coolest looking machines around, and runs the best OS , but techspecs are starting to look a bit dated, useful none the less. Intel is next year perhaps, until then we need something for Apple to keep it's lead. Same goes for iPod. Listening around I hear more and more voices going up of people looking for an alternative. (there are many good other mp3 players out there, some with surprising ease of use, and better sound quality). Eventhough I'd go for an iPod myself still, reasons for others (future switchers) need to remain sufficient compelling.
come on Apple, surprise us in September!
I really hope that besides the faster CPU, also frontside bus will get a much needed boost, I am not talking a few Mhz, but at least 100 or 200 Mhz more!
Otherwise the Powerbook will remain no match for many newer Wintel notebooks. The PB is still one of the coolest looking machines around, and runs the best OS , but techspecs are starting to look a bit dated, useful none the less. Intel is next year perhaps, until then we need something for Apple to keep it's lead. Same goes for iPod. Listening around I hear more and more voices going up of people looking for an alternative. (there are many good other mp3 players out there, some with surprising ease of use, and better sound quality). Eventhough I'd go for an iPod myself still, reasons for others (future switchers) need to remain sufficient compelling.
come on Apple, surprise us in September!
Jobs also said "Yet"
Jobs was using the negative of a late G5 PowerBook as reason to make a future switch to Intel.
The Big G5? sign simply implied "So where is the G5 PB that people are wanting now?" Jobs then remarked about how Apple was disappointed that they weren't able to deliver a G5 PB "YET" . This naturally led to the Power per watt discussion.
Apple could and probably were working with prototype low-power G5 chipsets, designing a future PB, when the frustration of waiting forced the decission to switch to Intel.
IBM surprised by the switch decided to blow the whistle on the low-power G5 and announced it early.
Paris Expo Apple makes huge splash with the long awaited PB G5.
Intel is planning to hold a symposium this fall to talk about the greatly enhanced performance features of their next generation architecture. The Merom is expected to be a kick-ass notebook chip to be released late 2006.
January 2007, Apple anounces the all new PowerBook using Intel's radical new architectural marvel the 64 bit Merom, oh and one more thing, it will be running 64 bit optimized Leopard 10.5.
SiliconAddict said:
Jobs was using the negative of a late G5 PowerBook as reason to make a future switch to Intel.
The Big G5? sign simply implied "So where is the G5 PB that people are wanting now?" Jobs then remarked about how Apple was disappointed that they weren't able to deliver a G5 PB "YET"
. This naturally led to the Power per watt discussion.Apple could and probably were working with prototype low-power G5 chipsets, designing a future PB, when the frustration of waiting forced the decission to switch to Intel.
IBM surprised by the switch decided to blow the whistle on the low-power G5 and announced it early.
Paris Expo Apple makes huge splash with the long awaited PB G5.
Intel is planning to hold a symposium this fall to talk about the greatly enhanced performance features of their next generation architecture. The Merom is expected to be a kick-ass notebook chip to be released late 2006.
January 2007, Apple anounces the all new PowerBook using Intel's radical new architectural marvel the 64 bit Merom, oh and one more thing, it will be running 64 bit optimized Leopard 10.5.
Exactly!
Now you are starting to become a believer.
I agree with this scenario, except that the Merom PB wouldn't be available until January 2007 even by Intel's roadmap.
G5 PowerBooks Tuesday Sept. 27, WOO-HOO!
Kelson said:
Now you are starting to become a believer.
I agree with this scenario, except that the Merom PB wouldn't be available until January 2007 even by Intel's roadmap.
G5 PowerBooks Tuesday Sept. 27, WOO-HOO!