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PowerBooks in Paris?

my 2 cents...

i think all the talk about delays in the PB being protecting G5 and such is kind of off.

i highly doubt that apple would delay updating a laptop (15" Ti) that has been in desparate need of an upgrade just to protect the thunder of an entirely different machine - g5 desktop. i'm not sure whose fault it is, but laptop delay was not "intentional." if updated PBs were ready well before g5, it would have been announced before WWDC. if it was ready around the time g5 were (any time between july and now, since g5 is hardly shipping yet) apple would have announced it at WWDC. who wouldn't have welcomed a dual punched keynote - g5 will come in sept, updated g4 pb ready now at WWDC?

i think it was simply some inability to make the upgrade... and i sure hope it's coming soon.
 
Originally posted by Photorun
...some with people who know engineering, have said that with the current die and specs of the current (note: the current) G5 there's no way to put them into a laptop...Heat, even clocking the chip down, would be more than the current Powerbook enclosure to handle...
Click to expand...

Actually, I agree with alot of what you said about Apple fans getting their hopes up and such, but again alot of what you stated above is opinion.

The G5, at 1.2 Ghz, is not hotter than the 7455 or the 7457.

G5 at 1.2 GHz = 19 Watts
7455 @ 1GHz = 15.8W(typ)/22W(Max)
7457 @ 1.3GHz = 18.7W(typ)/26W(Max)

Looking at it from these numbers the G5 offers more "bang" for your battery. Interestingly, the 7457 was supposed to support better power consumption numbers, but at 1GHz it is the same as the 7455.

Again, I wouldn't bet money on a G5 powerbook, but I am also not saying it can't happen...
 
Re: Re: Re: from where i see it

Originally posted by VicMacs
apple has to sell things in order to better them... they cant just update machines every 6 months and processors every year...
Click to expand...

While I agree with you that the likely update is a G4, I simply don't buy this reasoning. Computer speed, on average, doubles every 18 months (according to Moore's Law). Dell updates their machines much more frequently than Apple, just without the fanfare. Apple owners have become so accustomed to the fanfare of the Stevenote, but updates in computing happen frequently and should darn well be expected to, lest Apple fall behind. Thank goodness for the G5, else there would be many unhappy trolls on this board, mumbling incoherently about Motorola and bus speed.
 
Originally posted by jxyama
if it was ready around the time g5 were (any time between july and now, since g5 is hardly shipping yet) apple would have announced it at WWDC.
Click to expand...

Just to confirm. If updated G4 PB's were shipping at WWDC, you don't think that it would have eaten into G5 PM sales with owners waiting in limbo for 3 months for their Power Macs?

I tend to agree that Apple simply did not have the stocks at WWDC or until recently for that matter. However, I do think it would have stolen at least some thunder and sales from such a monumental annoucement as the G5.

edit: The G5 after all, does deserve some limelight.
 
Originally posted by F/reW/re
Yeah, I've heard about MHz myth, pipelines and cach, but don't try to tell me that the 1GHz is as fast as the 3GHz Pentium, thats just stupid!
Click to expand...

As someone that uses and programs for both platform (Windows, Linux, Mac OS X, etc), allow me to say that you would be surprised.

Will a 3GHz P4 outpace a 1GHz G4 in most tests? Yes. Will it do so by a large significant margin? Not really.

Of course, there's an extent of apples-vs-oranges involved. Are you running Windows on the P4? Well that drags the P4 down a bit. OS X fares better in that regard. Build a Linux optimized for the specific processor, and it will smoke either OS. But Linux isn't quite so clean and easy for everyone to use.

Speed can't be defined only by CPU tests. There's more to it. Is a computer that is twice as fast, but crashes or locks up twice as often and requires frequent reboots, truly the faster machine? Faster for tests, but nothing slows down <b>real work</b> to a crawl like having to restart a computer or troubleshoot a software/driver conflict.

I'm not going to say "Windows constantly crashes and Macintosh never does", because it's not that simple and clear cut. But the amount of time one has to dedicate to handling crashes, drivers, and other system management things on the Mac is far less than that of other OSs (even my beloved Linux).
 
Centrino clarification

"Centrino" is simply a marketing term Intel uses to help sell the products that computer manufacturers are ignoring in favor of better/cheaper solutions. Intel will give a ton of marketing money to cover advertising costs as long as a computer manufacturer pushes the Centrino name and uses the logo. This way, they can sell their 802.11b wireless chip (which is overpriced and outdated) and their mobo chipset, when many manufacturers would rather just use the Pentium M chip, which is admittedly very nice. Usually, the wireless chip is the weak link, but the mobo chipset ain't bad.

I learned all this when an Intel rep came into my store before the Centrino launch and started spouting marketing jargon... you know, talking about how great something is without even saying what it really does?
 
Well I'll be very disappointed if the 12'' isn't updated at Paris. I've been holding out for so long now, and even if G5 PB's were to come out in 6 months that's just too long to wait. I'll be ready to hit the order button the moment after the keynote ... :)
 
I am not defending Moto, because they have let down Apple fans for a long time, but if the 7457 would allow them to scale the processor higher, with the improved L2 cache, and get a faster bus in it with true DDR support, which won't happen, but if it did I think a lot of people would be very suprised how a 1.25 Ghz 7457 would compare performance wise with a 1.25 G5 especially in Alti-Vec aware apps.
 
Originally posted by greenstork
The G5 after all, does deserve some limelight.
Click to expand...

It sure does, doesn't it? As it would in a Powerbook in Paris. Now, no, i honestly don't think we will get it next week, but I am at least 80% sure that the technology is already available for putting it in a laptop, apple probably just did not begin development on it as early as was humanly possible.
 
Re: Re: Something for sure

Originally posted by natebailey11
Did nobody else see this? If there is any validity to this what so ever, wow... immediate shipping. I'm not one to speculate, but I wanted to make sure others saw this so that someone can speculate on it! :)
Click to expand...

I think the rep was blowing sunshine up Maxx Power's butt. Look at what happened when the iSight was released. There was reports of these new boxes sitting in the back. There were leaks.
If a new PowerBook was already out there someone would have reported on it by now.
 
Originally posted by NoPrideELF
It sure does, doesn't it? As it would in a Powerbook in Paris. Now, no, i honestly don't think we will get it next week, but I am at least 80% sure that the technology is already available for putting it in a laptop, apple probably just did not begin development on it as early as was humanly possible.
Click to expand...
Yeah.. you may be right :( But if they do make it availble to the public at the end of the week, do you think Bram Stoker's Dracula would look good on it?? Heeellll Yeah!!
 
More on PB

As a university computer store manager, here is a summary of what I've seen and my speculation:

---In six weeks, we have received a total of 5 PB SuperDrive 15" models out of 150 ordered, and that one shipment was a month ago.

---In the same six weeks, we've received almost all of the 15" ComboDrive units we ordered, and we just got 13 this week so the production hasn't stopped on those (it slowed but didn't stop).

Speculation:

Apple needed every 1Ghz+ specced G4 chip for the new models that are coming out... if they speed bump, then the 12" models and 15" ComboDrive will probably be up to 1Ghz with the SuperDrive and 17" models sporting a 1.25-1.4Ghz chip. So, they aren't shipping 1Ghz 15" currently because they are saving the chips for the new line (which is probably being built now, so not saved per se, but in use)... and they are shipping 867 chipped laptops like mad because they will no longer have a place in the new PB lineup.

If they were using a G5, they would still be shipping 1Ghz Powerbooks, because those chips would be obsolete once G5 laptops were announced, and they wouldn't have any reason to stop making the current models. However, they did stop production on the Supers, obviously, as we can all see by the barren sales channels.

The good news? I fully expect them to have models ready to ship once they are announced. They had two options: announce new models before they are ready, which means they are tied into to a set of specs/pricing (and get flamed for slow shipments), OR do what they did... do all the production work up front, and then have people wait for the announcement.

I think we can all agree that we would rather have the info early and wait for shipments... this is a horrible way to do business, because they have missed every ship date they estimated for the Supers. I have customers coming in on a daily basis, very angry at me because they have classwork to do and Apple was giving us bad information. Of course, I'm the one who gets blamed... all because they don't want to communicate their plans. I almost have to come to work in an asbestos trenchcoat now...
 
Re: not really

Originally posted by eric67
this is true up to now, but Intel plans to release Celeron Centrino; so indeed then Centrino at the end will simply mean with wireless capacities.
Actually it also means processor speed management, so it means that the processor clock when not required goes down, so a 1.6GHz P4M might go 1.0 or even less when there is no intensive request, that is the way that Intel has chosen to extent battery life...
Click to expand...

No, you are wrong. The next Centrino product group includes the code-named PentiumM chip Dothan (90nm production, 2MB L2 cache.) (The current PentiumM chip codenamed Banias is 130nm production, 1MB L2 cache, max 1.7Ghz.) There would be no need or place for a celeron centrino; the current ULV 900Mhz Pentium M chip outperforms the celeron.

Centrino, as stated before by others, is merely the package of mobo chipset, wireless card, and Pentium M chip (NOT Pentium 4 M-- these are substantially different chips.) Each of the three groups will be continously updated, but they want to sell them as a group package to OEMs by enticing them with marketing money.

The means for increasing battery life for the Pentium M is through dynamic adjusting of processor speed (8 steps, IIRC) and some below 1Ghz. Average draw of these processors over longterm use is 1watt. This is built into the chip and controlled by the mobo set; both are required.
 
Keeping my fingers crossed

Let's hope something really really good comes abouts next week. I'm just wanting a new computer that will store my music, do work, and play a few games on every once in a while before i get old and get bored of fake things. Hurry up apple, it's fall, and golden apples are being harvested...
 
Re: More on PB

Originally posted by the_dalex
As a university computer store manager, here is a summary of what I've seen and my speculation:
...
Speculation:

Apple needed every 1Ghz+ specced G4 chip for the new models that are coming out... if they speed bump, then the 12" models and 15" ComboDrive will probably be up to 1Ghz with the SuperDrive and 17" models sporting a 1.25-1.4Ghz chip. So, they aren't shipping 1Ghz 15" currently because they are saving the chips for the new line (which is probably being built now, so not saved per se, but in use)... and they are shipping 867 chipped laptops like mad because they will no longer have a place in the new PB lineup.

If they were using a G5, they would still be shipping 1Ghz Powerbooks, because those chips would be obsolete once G5 laptops were announced, and they wouldn't have any reason to stop making the current models. However, they did stop production on the Supers, obviously, as we can all see by the barren sales channels.

The good news? I fully expect them to have models ready to ship once they are announced. They had two options: announce new models before they are ready, which means they are tied into to a set of specs/pricing (and get flamed for slow shipments), OR do what they did... do all the production work up front, and then have people wait for the announcement.
Click to expand...

This is by far the most reasonable speculation I've seen yet. Very persuasive logic, it explains the peculiar dearth of most powerbooks combined with peculiar availability of some models.
 
Re: Re: More on PB

Originally posted by matznentosh
This is by far the most reasonable speculation I've seen yet. Very persuasive logic, it explains the peculiar dearth of most powerbooks combined with peculiar availability of some models.
Click to expand...


except the chips could be for the ibook update, and something new, i would guess g4 (57) but wildly as well g5, could be install for pb.

doesn't preclude ongoing speculation. though i can accept the logic and would be happy with it as long as there is actually an update.

we'll see next week.
 
well...

Let it go please! no one is predicting a g5 exept you wannabees - oh i hope there will be a g5 powerbook so i can open word faster. everyone in the know says g4. deal with it already.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's going to happen but it's possible and in case you haven't noticed, everyone "in the know" has kept their mouth shut on this topic. It is however possible if development for a Powerbook G5 had started around the time for the Powermac G5, which it most assuredly did. They have not held out so that the PM G5's could sell either because most people don't shop for a desktop and then buy a laptop or vice versa. That doesn't make any sense at all.

As a university computer store manager, here is a summary of what I've seen and my speculation...
Click to expand...

I agree with what you said. While I still believe it is possible that Apple has produced a PB G5 it's not very probable. Also, the PB development team has had plenty of time in excess of the PM G5 team to complete the PB. Still, it takes much longer to create a laptop, especially one with Powerbook like stature, than a desktop, granted the chassis for the Powermac is complicated for a desktop. Oh, and if you want to believe in nonsense assure yourself that every single engineer at Apple worked on the Powermac G5, until it was complete and then said, "Well let's get started on the rest of the computers now!"

As for myself, I am torn now between this update and a Powerbook G5. I'd like the G5 and if they gave me a date that it would come out I'd be ecstatic and could wait. But Apple always seems able to screw me over so I'm not sure if I should buy now or wait. My current old Dell POS that I traded for is falling apart. I need a nice new system but I'm not sure what to do. So I have an unbased hope for a PB G5, though I believe we'll see another G4. Still, Jobs announcing it may suprise us. He may have much more up his sleeve than a mere 1.25 GHz G4. This update has been a long time coming and I think the problem hasn't been Motorola's, but time consumed in engineering better chips.

That's just my $1.50....
 
Re: More on PB

Originally posted by the_dalex

I have customers coming in on a daily basis, very angry at me because they have classwork to do and Apple was giving us bad information. Of course, I'm the one who gets blamed... all because they don't want to communicate their plans. I almost have to come to work in an asbestos trenchcoat now...
Click to expand...

Wow talk about immature little brats. They need a timeout when college kids act like that.
 
Re: well...

Originally posted by zync
I don't think it's going to happen but it's possible and in case you haven't noticed, everyone "in the know" has kept their mouth shut on this topic. It is however possible if development for a Powerbook G5 had started around the time for the Powermac G5, which it most assuredly did. They have not held out so that the PM G5's could sell either because most people don't shop for a desktop and then buy a laptop or vice versa. That doesn't make any sense at all.
Click to expand...


See this logic doesn't track. If they had been working on a G5 laptop do you actually believe they would have skipped the back to school rush? Apple isn't insane. They wouldn't skip the back to school rush. If they had a parallel project going on alongside the PowerMac they would have either timed it to release this summer for back to school or released a G4 chip. Also the lower end G5's aren't totally in short supplies. Do you think Apple would have let stock dwindle for months if they had a new product right around the corner. If they had a product they would have announced it if for no other reason to get those preorders flowing.
It makes more sense that something was holding them back from shipping causing strained supplies of PB's. And I'll bet that something was Moto.


G5's aren't happening. Maybe 1st or 2nd qt but not this year.
 
Re: Re: Something for sure

Originally posted by natebailey11
Did nobody else see this? If there is any validity to this what so ever, wow... immediate shipping. I'm not one to speculate, but I wanted to make sure others saw this so that someone can speculate on it! :)
Click to expand...

I saw it:D

And I'm there too. In any regard, I can wait no longer. New PB's or not, G5 or G4, I'm getting a new one after the keynote...

Which one is up to my good friend Steve

:cool:

MM
 
Re: I'd venture to guess...

Originally posted by greenstork
That Apple has waited this long to update PB's for a couple of reasons:

1) Not to take away anything from G5 sales, publicity, etc.
Click to expand...

This is a probably true, especially with laptops gaining ground over desktops in marketshare.

2) To make sure that they sell updated G4's PB's by backing up the pipeline of PB buyers. Since many people have waited so long, there are many folks just chomping at the bit to buy a new PB and waiting on the next update. By keeping people waiting, boom, when they releasae them, they sell like hotcakes.
Click to expand...

This is a good idea, in theory. However, it only works if you have enough stock built up to meet initial demand, something Apple never seems to be able to do. That last time Apple actually had enough of something at its release, they were still selling beige computers. The worst consquence example of this is the G4 downgrade a few days after its introduction.

This is why I think PB's will have a G4. They will eeeek out one last big run on G4 PB's and release the G5 PB early next year.
Click to expand...

I agree. But it may be the Summer Macworld before the G5 Powerbook arrives. It will use the .65 micron 970 (or whatever is gleaned from the Power5), not the current spec 970.
 
Re: More on PB

Originally posted by the_dalex
As a university computer store manager, here is a summary of what I've seen and my speculation:

---In six weeks, we have received a total of 5 PB SuperDrive 15" models out of 150 ordered, and that one shipment was a month ago.

---In the same six weeks, we've received almost all of the 15" ComboDrive units we ordered, and we just got 13 this week so the production hasn't stopped on those (it slowed but didn't stop).

Speculation:

Apple needed every 1Ghz+ specced G4 chip for the new models that are coming out... if they speed bump, then the 12" models and 15" ComboDrive will probably be up to 1Ghz with the SuperDrive and 17" models sporting a 1.25-1.4Ghz chip. So, they aren't shipping 1Ghz 15" currently because they are saving the chips for the new line (which is probably being built now, so not saved per se, but in use)... and they are shipping 867 chipped laptops like mad because they will no longer have a place in the new PB lineup.

If they were using a G5, they would still be shipping 1Ghz Powerbooks, because those chips would be obsolete once G5 laptops were announced, and they wouldn't have any reason to stop making the current models. However, they did stop production on the Supers, obviously, as we can all see by the barren sales channels.

The good news? I fully expect them to have models ready to ship once they are announced. They had two options: announce new models before they are ready, which means they are tied into to a set of specs/pricing (and get flamed for slow shipments), OR do what they did... do all the production work up front, and then have people wait for the announcement.

I think we can all agree that we would rather have the info early and wait for shipments... this is a horrible way to do business, because they have missed every ship date they estimated for the Supers. I have customers coming in on a daily basis, very angry at me because they have classwork to do and Apple was giving us bad information. Of course, I'm the one who gets blamed... all because they don't want to communicate their plans. I almost have to come to work in an asbestos trenchcoat now...
Click to expand...

Your theory doesn't explain why the 17 inch models have been unconstrained. I have been following out-of-stock issues through MacPrices for 6 weeks now. The 12 inch and both 15 inch models have been far more constrained than the 17 inch. Therefore it doesn't seem related to either the 867 or the 1 Ghz G4.
 
Originally posted by aras
Ok - let me ask this: how much faster might a G5 underclocked at say 1.2 ghz in a powerbook be than a 1.25 ghz G4 ?

Would there be a difference? For which applications? I understand something of the G5 architechture is much better, but in day to day performance? Until 10.3?
Click to expand...

It's a 64-bit processor, mate.

32. 64. 32. 64.

Think about what this means in terms of how software is going to be developed for Macs from this point forward.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dear G5 PB posters,

Originally posted by mania
Let it go please! no one is predicting a g5 exept you wannabees - oh i hope there will be a g5 powerbook so i can open word faster. everyone in the know says g4. deal with it already.
Click to expand...

You know what?

At this point, a G4 update isn't a PowerBook update, it's an iBook update.

We're not the ones that need to deal. It's going to be Apple that has to deal with lackluster sales around this latest update if it is a G4.

You see people stampeding to buy the new iMacs?
 
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