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Re: Dear G5 PB posters,

Originally posted by Photorun
Put down the crack pipe, and slowly back away.

NOT HAPPENING! Sorry to burst your thick noggin's bubbles but there ain't no way to currently put a G5 in a Powerbooks. Someday maybe, this year no, so stop posting your dumbass drivel!

No way??? I doubt a G5 PB so soon, but I hate inflamatory statements without backup.

Reasons for a PB G5:
1.) 1.2 GHz G5 power consumption approximately the same as a 1 Ghz G4.

Reasons against:
1.) Current architecture with dual banks of ram may need heavy modification for PB's.
2.) System Controller runs fairly hot ( since it is a proprietary chip, we will never know... )

Please reason and argument before certainty of your opinion!
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lower prices? Ha-ha!

Originally posted by tomf87
Ahhh yes... :) Just trying to get to the point that some things should be done collaboratively, rather than against each other.
right, and I remember when I bought my G3 how Apple boasted that they were the first to have USB. They helped intel out alot.
 
Originally posted by tomf87
-Rocketman

How long have you used your PB? I heard one gentleman say their new PB's last only about a year before needing repair. He stated the case would crack or something along those lines.

Mine is an original PB G4 500MHz, from the first shipping batch and has been working almost none stop as my main computer since I received it 01-31-01. It's been all over the world and still works great, there are some scratches here and there but no cracks. As for its speed, it's still fast enough for day to day work and tweaking projects in the field (what I bought it for), I have other Macs for for heavy work like video compression... still waiting for my G5s (ordered the first day) to ship.
 
Re: Price is THE issue for me..

Originally posted by DrGruv1
looking for G5 powerbooks (not going to happen till jan or later.. my guess)

and

ibooks go to the G4

then what is the price?

$2100 G5 powerbook
$1200 G4 ibook

???????

Kids, the iBook is not going G4. It will stay with G3, using the Gobi processor, and possibly with the AltiVec unit that the Gobi is capable of.

Why would Apple up the iBooks to the G4 when the Gobi is capable of faster speeds? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Gobi capable of something like 1.5 Ghz?
 
Re: Re: Price is THE issue for me..

Originally posted by ColoJohnBoy
Kids, the iBook is not going G4. It will stay with G3, using the Gobi processor, and possibly with the AltiVec unit that the Gobi is capable of.

Why would Apple up the iBooks to the G4 when the Gobi is capable of faster speeds? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Gobi capable of something like 1.5 Ghz?

1.1 Ghz if you trust this..

http://www.lowendmac.com/misc/03/0903.html

Then it also talks about the new "Mojave" processor supposedly to go to 1.6Ghz and slated for production in December 2003.
 
Hopefully a 12" update too

nice to see a *solid* rumor :D (if there is such a thing) on PB updates. But I hope Apple updates the 12" little guy. That model sorely needs some more ummph, more bang for the buck, y'know? I'd love to get a 12" PB G4, but the current one is just lacking too much IMHO.
If they slimmed it down a little, gave it L3 cache (they way they SHOULD have to begin with), higher RAM ceiling (what's with the 640MB ceiling??), maybe FW800 and USB2 as well, although neither of those are a necessity, I'd get one. The FW & USB updates might raise the cost, which wouldn't be good, so if they needed to leave those out to keep the current price point, that'd be fine with me. Just bump the proc speed, higher RAM capacity, add some L3 and slim it down, and.. oh yeah, some more base RAM would be nice too.
I know, I know, I'm dreaming, but the 12" model is close to what I've wanted for some time now, but it's juuust not quite there yet. Some here's hoping, eh?
 
Fiber optics - not really a good idea

Originally posted by grahamtriggs
Fiber optics.... basically means that they could (do?) use the backlight for the screen display to light the keyboard.

Couple of issues....

1. Apple says that they're separate "In low light, for example, the PowerBook G4 automatically lowers its display backlight and turns on the backlit keyboard." (http://www.apple.com/powerbook/index17.html)

2. Have you ever looked at the cable bundle already snaking through the hinge? Adding fibres would be a headache at least.

3. Seen the keychain flashlights - the white LED ones powered by watch batteries? The power drain would be insignificant (especially since the backlight would already be dimmed, as was mentioned)
 
Re: Re: Price is THE issue for me..

Originally posted by ColoJohnBoy
Why would Apple up the iBooks to the G4 when the Gobi is capable of faster speeds? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Gobi capable of something like 1.5 Ghz?

If marketed as being something newer than the G3.

Intel seem prepared to spend the dollars on marketing their Centrino chips and getting the brand recognised. If these G3 chips are going into the iBook only, then Apple could come up with a suitable moniker that would position the Gobi/Mojave (if it does exist) as Apple's 'mobile' chip.

I would probably buy a Mojave-powered laptop over a G5 simply on cost reasons. I would love to buy a G5 laptop, but then so would my credit card company.
 
Reasons for a PB G5:
1.) 1.2 GHz G5 power consumption approximately the same as a 1 Ghz G4.

Reasons against:
1.) Current architecture with dual banks of ram may need heavy modification for PB's.
2.) System Controller runs fairly hot ( since it is a proprietary chip, we will never know... )

Please reason and argument before certainty of your opinion


Not opinion, but if you want "opinion," every Rumor site of varying quality, some with actual factual info, and this is rumor sites, some with people who know engineering, have said that with the current die and specs of the current (note: the current) G5 there's no way to put them into a laptop.

It's safe(r) to speculate that there cannot be a G5 Powerbook for at least a few months based on information gleaned from everywhere and watching the progression of the G5 chip, then to speculate foolishly that the G5 Powerbooks will be sooner than later... in fact, the latter is dangerous as too many naive macheads tend to then blame Apple when their foolish, misguided dreams are put upon pedestals that clearly cannot and will not take place... like the G5 Powerbook.

As a person who's looked inside a G5, oooh and ahhhed over the work of art the G5 is (it really is, a G5 1.8 anyways, only one I've taken apart), and as a guy who's been taking computers apart since his first Timex Sinclair (anyone remember those?) and then used to build his own peecees before one thing was self evident, Macs rule, unless there's an engineering breakthrough overnight there's a lot of work to go from the current G5 as a desktop machine to a laptop machine. Heat, even clocking the chip down, would be more than the current Powerbook enclosure to handle. That's just the tip of the iceberg, then there's fitting much of the new architecture under the hood, if you've been inside a G5, you'd see there's a lot of stuff going on that wouldn't fit in the G4 17 PB, let alone the other sizes. Not that they can't reengineer it, but that takes time and testing.

The only way Apple could release the G5 Powerbook would be to say "available come the first of the year" which of course with Apple will mean mid 2004 which is about how long it'll take to make the G5 possible. In other words, Jobs could do what he did with the G5, say it'll be available on X date, really knowing it won't be until Y date (a month later for most buyers) and then not be able to ship until Z date in quantity, which reality is, for the current G5 Powermac, that's not going to be until mid to late October (mark my words), maybe later for some (just today I've heard from people who've said their current "revised" date has slipped a week back). Five months from Paris Expo is February 2004 so, by the current BS that Apple is working on with the G5 desktops, yes, they could indeed announce the Powerbook G5. But hopefully they're not going to do two moronic things in one year.

BTW I'm a huge Apple fan, just not sucked into the RDF. Apple is a great company, but needs to do better on being upfront about delivering on promises.
 
There is a way to make a G5 "laptop" All you need is a drill, some screws, a generator to power that sucker lol, and a screen so u can see. First you lay the G5 on its side and the screen on it. Take that drill u bought and drill the screen into the G5. Then plug both in the generator and there u have it. A G5 laptop. Sure it weighs as much as a baby cow and will burn through your pants. But hey, everyone wants a G5 laptop, thats how u make one.

Adam
 
Faster SuperDrives?

Any thoughts from anybody on the possiblity for faster SuperDrives for these rumored updated Powerbooks?:confused:
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Lower prices? Ha-ha!

Originally posted by pgwalsh
Don't forget about who developed USB.

Zayante.

An ex-Intel engineer started it up, got USB going...and was reeled in later by Intel.

Did you have a point?
 
Man, I have been wanting an updated 15" since May... this has dragged on so long and the speed bump is going to be so low for the amount of time its been that I don't even want one anymore. I'm not sure if others feel the same way, but these laptops have been delayed so long that I've lost all interest, unless there is some incredible "wow" factor... which i doubt. Looks like I'll be getting a G5 tower then.
 
Re: Re: Dear G5 PB posters,

Originally posted by hmmm
Well done Photorun, such conviction, but how are you backing up your statement, do you work for IBM?

He doesnt have to work for IBM. The G5 simply runs too hot to go into a Powerbook. They have been working on the .9 and .65 micron versions, but those are all research right now. They aren't being mass produced.

Apple itself said there wouldn't be a G5 in Powerbooks anytime soon.

Why do you people continue to think there will be a G5 in the Powerbook?
 
Re: Re: Re: Dear G5 PB posters,

Originally posted by SeaFox
Why do you people continue to think there will be a G5 in the Powerbook?

People make this assertion because a clocked down (1.2Ghz) G5 dissipates roughly the same amount of heat as the current G4 chips. That is why.
 
Ok - let me ask this: how much faster might a G5 underclocked at say 1.2 ghz in a powerbook be than a 1.25 ghz G4 ?

Would there be a difference? For which applications? I understand something of the G5 architechture is much better, but in day to day performance? Until 10.3?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Dear G5 PB posters,

Originally posted by crees!
People make this assertion because a clocked down (1.2Ghz) G5 dissipates roughly the same amount of heat as the current G4 chips. That is why.

What about Apple's statement then?
 
A thought on the G5 system controller

Well.... I was going to start this post saying that the G5 controller couldn't be ultra-power hungry since it's on the back of the G5 logic board. (thought process being that if it's THAT power hungry and heat producing, it would need to be in the large thermal zone on the other side of the board.

BUT

I did some research and checked out the back of the G5 logic board, only to find a heat pipe network that rivals the one in my PB G4 667 DVI. This makes me think the chip is probably dumping 15-20W by itself.

However, This doesn't mean that dual G4's would solve everything, in a dual G4 Powerbook (as suggested by powerpage.org) you would find the following:

2x G4 Processors
1x G4 System controller
2x 1MB L3 cache

Whereas in a G5 laptop you would find:
1x G5 (~19W for 1.2GHz@1.1V if the Oct. 2002 docs are to be believed)
1x G5 Controller
Higher speed ram

I maintain that the G5 system would draw less power than the supposed 2xG4 system. Especially for the fact that 1) Power consumption increased with frequency. 2) The G5 controller's clock speed is 1/2 that of the G5 itself. meaning at 1.2GHz, the controller would run at a relatively slow 600MHz.

Which would you rather have? I'd rather have the G5 Laptop than some hacked together dual G4 laptop. (so put my money on a single G4 pb next week and let me be surprised if it's anything better)

PS, this image is copyright Apple 2003.
 

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dear G5 PB posters,

Originally posted by SeaFox
What about Apple's statement then?

Everyone has their own take on when Phil said, "Not any time soon." For me, I don't think it would happen this soon. Other people think "not any time soon" can mean 3 weeks, 3 months, or 3 years. That's why everyone has a varying opinion about this. The only way we will know is when Apple releases the G5PB.. THEN we all will understand the meaning of "not any time soon."
 
As crazy as it sounds initially, a dual cpu notebook would restore a lot of the hardware superiority mystique apple has lost the past few years.

I think there is enough room in the 17" for another CPU :^)

I like the idea of mobile workstations. This IS what PBs are used for. An extra lbs would not hurt too much would it?

Light small and cheap is what an iBook should be. Not the PB.
 
Something for sure

Well, i just talked to a apple computers sales man on campus here at university of ottawa, i was wanting to buy a computer. I mentioned to him i'm waiting for a powerbook revision/update, and he says to me, it's coming on tuesday, and he's already got a few in stock, and says for me to be here first thing on tuesday if i want mine.
 
Re: A thought on the G5 system controller

Originally posted by magitekkn
Well.... I was going to start this post saying that the G5 controller couldn't be ultra-power hungry since it's on the back of the G5 logic board. (thought process being that if it's THAT power hungry and heat producing, it would need to be in the large thermal zone on the other side of the board.

BUT

I did some research and checked out the back of the G5 logic board, only to find a heat pipe network that rivals the one in my PB G4 667 DVI. This makes me think the chip is probably dumping 15-20W by itself.

However, This doesn't mean that dual G4's would solve everything, in a dual G4 Powerbook (as suggested by powerpage.org) you would find the following:

2x G4 Processors
1x G4 System controller
2x 1MB L3 cache

Whereas in a G5 laptop you would find:
1x G5 (~19W for 1.2GHz@1.1V if the Oct. 2002 docs are to be believed)
1x G5 Controller
Higher speed ram

I maintain that the G5 system would draw less power than the supposed 2xG4 system. Especially for the fact that 1) Power consumption increased with frequency. 2) The G5 controller's clock speed is 1/2 that of the G5 itself. meaning at 1.2GHz, the controller would run at a relatively slow 600MHz.

Which would you rather have? I'd rather have the G5 Laptop than some hacked together dual G4 laptop. (so put my money on a single G4 pb next week and let me be surprised if it's anything better)

PS, this image is copyright Apple 2003.


Ram speed would depend on the clock speed of the G5 in question. I think that DDR 2700 would be fine on a 1.2 or 1.3 system. DDR sodim voltage requirements and heat would not be problems.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Dear G5 PB posters,

Originally posted by crees!
People make this assertion because a clocked down (1.2Ghz) G5 dissipates roughly the same amount of heat as the current G4 chips. That is why.
Like some others here have said I think it's not just about the processor. There is also the rest of the supporting chipset, which could produce (to be honest, I don't have a clue, just speculating here) heat, not only that, but could also need to be optimized to fit in a PB enclosure. Now I know some of you are going to argue that there is a precedent when Apple introduced both a desktop and a laptop running a new chip (was it the G3?) almost at the same time, but I think there is also much more at stake here. A good part of PowerBooks' success is based on their looks: let's face it, you don't see that many 'sexy' PeeCee laptops (let's not get into Dell's placing coloured plastic covers on their laptop...), and that beautiful design (so pure, and so slim...) comes at a price: it is much more difficult to arrange all the pieces together in those enclosures (that's why the 12" was thicker...). I guess it would be pretty much possible for Apple to produce a 'laptop' with a G5, maybe one in a Dell-type box. But the fact remain that it is a lot more difficult in a slim PowerBook enclosure... Those are the reasons that, I feel, make the G4 the more likely and the more realistic option for those upcoming laptops. But who knows, they might surprise us (although I don't believe it, especially IF they announce new PBs next week, which remains to be seen...).

My £0.05 (I felt it was too long to be worth £0.02) :D.
 
Since I guessed correctly on the G5 systems (I didn't get the top dual but I did get the 1.6, 1.8 & 2.0 GHZ correct when everyone else said 1.8 at the top). I'm going to go out on a limb one more time.

I have know idea on when the PBooks will be released. But, when they do, I'm going to say.....1.1GHZ & 1.3GHZ G4.

but...one more thing:
I have a feeling that Apple hasn't delayed the release of the 15" all because of Moto. They kept inching the PowerMacs along for over a year and everyone was pe'ed-off because Apple didn't release something better. They didn't release anything better because the G5 was coming out. Well, the same thing is happening to the Powerbooks. I have a funny feeling that a 1.2 & 1.4 GHZ G5 Pbook might happen real soon. I know they're people saying it won't happen, but these are the same people that said my 1.6 - 2.0 GHZ G5 wasn't going to happen.

My proof to this is: Apple "NEEDS" to increase the processor speed in a big way on the powerbooks, just like they needed to on the Powermacs. So, my final bid is on 1.1 & 1.3 GHZ G4's. But, I wouldn't be suprised to see a G5 Powerbook in the not-so-far future.

Take it for what it's worth
 
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