PowerMac G5 Updates - March 23rd?

[MacRAND]

HP's LightScribe may be coming to Mac soon

HP has actually surpassed this technology with their forthcoming "LightScribe" tech. Check it out: http://www.lightscribe.com/

Why haven't we heard of HP's LightScribe technology before, the future?

Will LightScribe work in both Windows and Mac enviroments?
At this time, HP's LightScribe is available on Windows XP and 2000. Look for additional software and operating system support in the months to come.

HP has announced that it will be selling iPods & iPod Minis to its PC customers, along with iTunes installed on its new PC computers starting NOW. So...
What is Apple doing for HP. I think that the future has discovered the answer --
Apple will be installing HP's LightScribe on new Macs, and just maybe Pioneer drives will have the firmware update necessary to burn the HP's LightScribe discs.

Are we going to see an announcement on the 23rd that combines:
New G5 release of an all Dual CPU lineup
New Aluminum Cinema Displays that match the G5s
8x DVD burning SuperDrives
HP's LightScribe disc label burning technology
iDVD incorporating HP's LightScribe technology and software for designing labels
New Apple 8x DVD-R media with HP's LightScribe treated labels, which are also color "printable" using an Epson CD/DVD ink jet printer.

The advantage of Yamaha's DiscT@2 laser burning system has been that any CD brand can be used, though Yamaha's dark blue CDs do work best. Also, Yamaha's laser burning on the "playing side" has many of the advantages found in the LightScribe system, like no ink, no paper labels, and permanency of the etching.
Disadvantages to DiscT@2 are:
• Yamaha CD drives must be used exclusively, no other brands have been licensed.
• Only the un-used protion of the disc may be etched with T@2, so if you fill a 700MB disc with 630MB of data, the 10% left hardly provides enough room for anything.
• Burning the playing side results in a low contrast image, therefore it can be difficult to view without holding the CD in just the right light.

I had wondered why Yamaha didn't create a system that would use the Laser in any CD burner to etch the Label Side of the disc, and apparently LightScribe is providing the answer. The only disadvantages to the LightScribe system are that at this point in time the etching is strictly mono-chrome and not color (but just wait...) and we have to buy specially treated label surfaces on CD and DVD discs.

Availability is going to depend on demand, so LightScribe, which was invented by Hewlett-Packard (HP), needs to make sure it gets its capability into the firmware of as many manufacturers as possible (reasonably priced licensing), software like Discus to create the images for burning on the discs, written for as many operating systems (especially Apple's OS X) as possible, and then that will create demand for CD & DVD disc media.
Indeed, unless the specially treated surface required for the LightScribe process to work on a disc excludes or prevents Ink Jet color printing, future discs could be manufactured to be "printable" for ink jet, and at the same time treated to be "LightScribe-able" by laser.

Just think how easy it would be for Apple to adopt and implement the LightScribe system since it determines which SuperDrives and ComboDrives are installed in new Macs, orders and then markets Apple DVD-R disc media, and could also market specially treated CD-R/RW disc media, and could very easily incorporate the software to burn the laser labels within Apple's iDVD, which would also work for CD media.

If Apple, Pioneer and LightScribe don't get together on this quickly, look for LightScribe-HP to team up with Roxio, Toshiba, Hitachi-LG, Verbatim & Maxell get together to create a whole system.

Wouldn't it be weird if MacBuyers stopped buying Apple SuperDrives built by Pioneer (Option = remove SuperDrive save $200) so that could install LightScribe capable Toshiba or Hitachi-LG (joint-venture) DVD/CD±R/RW[DL]+LS for LightScribe, which includes a "lite" copy of Roxio's Toast 6.5 that includes label design software and LightScribe label burning capability.
LightScribe technology is right up there with sliced bread, floride in toothpaste, and Stickies™. It's not a matter of "whether" this technology will become pervasive, but merely "when" and "how quickly".

If Apple ignores this one, it's like when Pres. Ike Eisenhower tried to ignore the importance of the U2 Spyplane piloted by Gary Powers being shot down over Russia.
Yeah, like it never happened and it's all going to go away quickly. Joke.
LightScribe is here to stay. Take a look at their cool Flash presentation:

http://www.lightscribe.com/flash_video/gatewayf.aspx ​

Looks like LightScribe may become famous for the phrase:
Burn, Flip, Burn!​

 

[Bigheadache]

Since October 2003, Pioneer has been using a DVR-106 SuperDrive with special firmware to demonstrate Dual-Layer 4x DVD burning for a total of 8.5GB per DL disc. I want more than a demo, when is --

• Pioneer going to release a DVD-R/RW drive with DL firmware for Dual-Layer DVD burning that I can PURCHASE and take home to play with, and at what speeds will it burn DL DVD-R media?

• Someone (Verbatim, Maxell, TDK...?) going to release DVD-R[DL] media to burn on Dual Layer SuperDrives?

So, don't tell us about last year's Demonstrations, answer the questions about who, what, how much, and WHEN?

Here's your wish..
at www.cdrlabs.com sony have announced their dual layer DVD writer the DRU-700A

 

[MacRAND]

SONY is DVD+R; Still no DVD-R Double Layer media...

Here's your wish at www.cdrlabs.com
sony have (sic) announced their dual layer DVD writer the DRU-700A

Thanks, but...NOT my Wish.

SONY is not Pioneer, which I specifically stated in my St. Patrick's Day wish for
DVD+R Double Layer media would be for a PC not made for a Mac
DVD-R Double Layer media would be for a Mac specifically and not made for a PC

Verbatim and others have had DVD+R Double Layer media out for PC computers since last year, nothing new.

Let's keep looking.
We're waiting for Mac compatible hardware and media, and Apple products.
• Pioneer
• DVD-R Double Layer media

Apple could change everything by giving us an Apple driver for OS X that specifically permits DVD+R Double Layer media, which may already be there; we will have to wait and see.

 

[Borg3of5]

Reply to your question

I'm going to be getting a new Power Mac G5 when they come out later this month. However, where is the best place to buy one? The Apple Store (have to pay sales tax), Mac Connection (no sales tax), Mac Mall (no sales tax), or Comp USA (sales tax)?? I figure I can just save 3-$400 on just sales tax after I get my new G5 and Apple Cinema monitor if I go through a catalog. Are there any pros or cons. I really would like to support the local Apple store. Any thoughts?

I have this all figured out: if you're not interested in AppleCare, by all means get your system through a catalog. Wasting your money by paying sales tax is BEYOND sin. AppleCare will extend the warranty to 3 years onsite repair, as long as there is an Apple Store or authorized repair place within 50 miles of your residence. The online catalogs are now offering an Epson printer (yuck), and 512 MB memory upgrade for free, after rebates. That's an awesome deal. If anyone else can beat that, PLEASE let me know, you'd be the man!

 

[jsw]

I have this all figured out: if you're not interested in AppleCare, by all means get your system through a catalog. Wasting your money by paying sales tax is BEYOND sin. AppleCare will extend the warranty to 3 years onsite repair, as long as there is an Apple Store or authorized repair place within 50 miles of your residence. The online catalogs are now offering an Epson printer (yuck), and 512 MB memory upgrade for free, after rebates. That's an awesome deal. If anyone else can beat that, PLEASE let me know, you'd be the man!

Absolutely, buy through the catalogs. I'm lucky enough to live close to New Hampshire (no sales tax!!!), so I use the Apple Store. But, otherwise, buy online.

However, don't be surprised if those incentives dry up significantly or totally for the new releases. If there ever are any new releases.

 

[jsw]

Why haven't we heard of HP's LightScribe technology before...

Cool stuff, man. Hadn't seen it before. Of course, it's still annoying to have to turn the DVD to label it.

Seriously, though, this would be an appropriate Apple-style addition, as it's part of the whole "Express Yourself" thing. To bad it's all monotone, but, still, cool enough, and it obviates the need for a separate printer.

 

[Mac2004]

I think I will get my new Apple G5 and Apple 23" monitor from Mac Connection catalog and save myself HUNDREDS of dollars in sales tax. I can get AppleCare through a catalog can't I??? I thought AppleCare was offered through every outlet (catalogs, stores, etc.)?

What video card should I get for my G5?

 

[jsw]

I think I will get my new Apple G5 and Apple 23" monitor from Mac Connection catalog and save myself HUNDREDS of dollars in sales tax. I can get AppleCare through a catalog can't I??? I thought AppleCare was offered through every outlet (catalogs, stores, etc.)?

What video card should I get for my G5?

Good choice. Of course, I'd wait until the 23rd or 30th.

Yes, you can get AppleCare afterward (as far as I know, based on what I think I read...). Of course, if you can't get it (and I think you can), then the hundreds of tax dollars AND the hundreds of AppleCare dollars you'd've saved would likely pay for your expected repair bill anyway. Still, though, AppleCare is worth it, I think, when you consider that it's about 5% of the CPU + monitor cost.

As far as video cards: unless they announce something new beyond the 9800 (hopefully!), I'd get the 9600 or the cheapest card available for your system. Then, when something truly new and excellent comes out five hours after your Mac is delivered ( ) you can buy a new replacement card. Honestly, you'll be grooving to your new Mac regardless of card for some time. The (currently) $300 premium for the 9800 isn't worth it, given the obvious release shortly of a better one. I've got a dual-2 with a 9600, and it works great. The 9800 would work better, but probably not enough to matter. I play Halo and WCIII, and they work just fine.

 

[neonart]

I think I will get my new Apple G5 and Apple 23" monitor from Mac Connection catalog and save myself HUNDREDS of dollars in sales tax. I can get AppleCare through a catalog can't I??? I thought AppleCare was offered through every outlet (catalogs, stores, etc.)?

What video card should I get for my G5?

There is also a small company I've enjoyed buying from in the past, Smalldog.com. They are very knowledgeable and nice to deal with.
If you are not in their home state, it's a tax-free purchase... One thing they do that most others don't is that you can get BTO (built to order) macs from them. They simply order them from Apple as you want the machine- given the config is available at Apple.
This is a good way to save money on things you don't want, or purchase things you do want, out of the box. Like the superdrive thing we've mentioned, or upping your video card.

For the G5, if you are going to be using an Apple display with ADC, the current situation is that unless you buy a BTO Video card, you will need an extra DVI to ADC adaptor ($99).
The way Apple made the AGP slot on these machines makes it very difficult for ATi to make a retail card that works on all Macs- therefore they use "standard" connectors on their cards: DVI and VGA. If they make a card that carries DVI and ADC for the G5, it would not work on anything but G5's, and the opposite happens if they make it with ADC for older macs (The Radeon 9000 Retail carries DVI and ADC, and only works in G4's).

Maybe this changes, but I don't see it happening soon.

So to recap, the choices are:

1) Buy a G5 BTO with your upgraded card and an Apple Display.
2) Buy a G5 stock and an Apple Display and upgrade the card later. Then get an ADC adapter ($99)
3) Buy a G5 and other brand display (may I suggest Formac ) and get your card whenever.

 

[RichardCarletta]

Further delays in G5 updates ?

According to MacOS Rumors :

iMac G5 to follow new PowerMacs, at or before WWDC. The latest from Cupertino: iMac G5s are nearly ready to roll and the only things holding back the new PowerMacs are supplies of new motherboards and higher-clocked PowerPC 970FX CPUs.

If the new PowerMacs ship on schedule in mid to late April, sources believe that a new iMac family with 1-2 G5 models and 2-3 G4 models will follow 5-8 weeks after that -- definitely no later than Apple's Worldwide Developer Conference at the end of June. More details soon...

 

[RichardCarletta]

My predictions

DP 2.5 GHZ 970FX G5 POWERMAC with 256 MB ram , USB 2 ports .2 Firewire 400 ports , 2 Firewire 800 ports , Radeon 9800 $3000

DP 2.2 GHZ 970FX G5 POWERMAC with 256 MB ram , USB 2 ports .2 Firewire 400 ports , 2 Firewire 800 ports , Radeon 9800 $2500

DP 2.0 GHZ 970FX G5 POWERMAC with 256 MB ram , USB 2 ports .2 Firewire 400 ports , 2 Firewire 800 ports , Radeon 9800 $2000

DP 1.6 GHZ 970FX G5 POWERMAC with 256 MB ram , USB 2 ports .2 Firewire 400 ports , 2 Firewire 800 ports , Radeon 9800 $1500



20" Widescreen 2.5 GHZ 970FX G5 iMAC with 256 MB ram , USB 2 ports .2 Firewire 400 ports , 1 Firewire 800 port , Radeon 9600 $2500

17" Widescreen 2.0 GHZ 970FX G5 iMAC with 256 MB ram , USB 2 ports .2 Firewire 400 ports , 1 Firewire 800 port , Radeon 9600 $2000

15" 1.5 GHZ G4 iMAC with 256 MB ram , USB 2 ports .2 Firewire 400 ports , Radeon 9600 $1300

 

[klaus]

DP 2.5 GHZ 970FX G5 POWERMAC with 256 MB ram , USB 2 ports .2 Firewire 400 ports , 2 Firewire 800 ports , Radeon 9800 $3000

DP 2.2 GHZ 970FX G5 POWERMAC with 256 MB ram , USB 2 ports .2 Firewire 400 ports , 2 Firewire 800 ports , Radeon 9800 $2500

DP 2.0 GHZ 970FX G5 POWERMAC with 256 MB ram , USB 2 ports .2 Firewire 400 ports , 2 Firewire 800 ports , Radeon 9800 $2000

DP 1.6 GHZ 970FX G5 POWERMAC with 256 MB ram , USB 2 ports .2 Firewire 400 ports , 2 Firewire 800 ports , Radeon 9800 $1500



20" Widescreen 2.5 GHZ 970FX G5 iMAC with 256 MB ram , USB 2 ports .2 Firewire 400 ports , 1 Firewire 800 port , Radeon 9600 $2500

17" Widescreen 2.0 GHZ 970FX G5 iMAC with 256 MB ram , USB 2 ports .2 Firewire 400 ports , 1 Firewire 800 port , Radeon 9600 $2000

15" 1.5 GHZ G4 iMAC with 256 MB ram , USB 2 ports .2 Firewire 400 ports , Radeon 9600 $1300

Don't really think that will be the case. There will be only 3 G5 models I think.
And standard 256mb ram for all the models? A minimum of 512 mb or even 1024 for the top range model, that's more like it. And the videocards will not be the same on all the models, there will be some kind of "grade" in the range.


Your iMac predictions are way too high, the gap between g5 & iMac is too small, not something apple would do, imho

 

[Trekkie]

Why put a dual 1.8 GHz as the basic model? I think even for the image it would be better to run just 2+ GHz models... Apart from that the present PMs have a 200 MHz gap between each of them! So I would bet on dual 2, 2.2, 2.4 GHz. How's that?

Why? One word. PRICE.

don't forget there will be bus speed differences from 900 - 1.2GHz maybe

I'd not bet on dual 2 being the low end. Apple does fight a bit of a 'price' perception and if they could bring the Dual 1.8 in at about 1499 or so, that'd be rockin...

 

[Trekkie]

with 256 RAM, it'll be a rod stewart kind of rocking..

Heaven forbid you spend $50 - $100 to upgrade it to 512MB

 

[RichardCarletta]

A bargain priced G5 would expand marketshare more

Why? One word. PRICE.

don't forget there will be bus speed differences from 900 - 1.2GHz maybe

I'd not bet on dual 2 being the low end. Apple does fight a bit of a 'price' perception and if they could bring the Dual 1.8 in at about 1499 or so, that'd be rockin...

And if it really true about G5s being cheaper to buy than G4s , then its time to switch for the highend iMacs. Does IBM really want to produce at least 6 different G5 processors just for the mac market ? IBM must know that Apple wants to be rid of the Moterola G4 for most of their desktops. That is why IBM could just produce the 970FX chips in volume , because they know they have grabbed Apple by their balls with the supply of G5s IBM gives them. In other words , IBM can choose to just produce the 970FX chips in volume , and Apple would be stuck in only being able to buy the faster 970FX chips for G5 machines. That is what I would do if I was IBM.

 

[Trekkie]

This Thread is INSANE!!



People. People. Stop foaming at the mouth. I've barely gotten through page four and people are ranting about memory sizes.

Speaking as someone who understands/knows how computer companies try and price their systems, there are a few things you need to understand.

1) System itself has the lowest margin.

2) You hope that they upgrade features/options from you because your margins are 35 - 40% on the upgrades. You sell the systems with the minimal 'base' memory/drive configuration and let the customer option the heck out of it. You have a few people that buy parts from Kingston, etc, and then you hvae the other people that value the 'OEM' purchase and support you get for buying direct.

3) This lets your resellers and what not make money on upgrades/options as well.

Also the foaming at the mouth on the clock speeds. Good lord people get a grip!

1.8GHz - 900 MHz HT Bus
2.0GHz - 1.0 GHz HT Bus
2.2GHz - 1.1 GHz HT Bus
2.4GHz - 1.2 GHz HT Bus
2.6GHz - 1.3 GHz HT Bus

'only' 200 MHz? Come one people calm down and think a bit. This is exciting news for us. When Intel revs a clock speed they DO NOT rev their memory bus.

Right now their SINGLE procs are at 800MHz FSB. Their DUAL procs hit 800MHz in July. Their clock speeds are 3.2 - 3.6GHz. The 3.6GHz will AT BEST be a 29% perf improvement over the current 3.2GHz/533MHz and the 3.2GHz/800MHz IS SLOWER than the 3.2GHz/533MHz (in a dual proc workload)

before you discount my performance statements - I work for a Intel server manufacturer that happens to make the processor in the G5. I have a bit of experience with the Intel Dual proc server market and how it relates to performance...

And no, i'm not divulging proprietary information on the 970, those are my personal speculation on how the HT bus works on the 970, I may be off base but the 1.6/1.8/2.0 worked the same way and I see no reason for it not to continue short of memory ont being up to the clock speed to support those bus speeds. I'm speaking as a Mac Fan here not as an unamed company employee

 

[Trekkie]

DP 2.5 GHZ 970FX G5 POWERMAC with 256 MB ram , USB 2 ports .2 Firewire 400 ports , 2 Firewire 800 ports , Radeon 9800 $3000

<interesting tidbits snipped>

Your PowerMac's look good, your iMac's don't IMHO.

I'd be willint to bet a 1.6 and 1.8 single, but not single >2.0GHz yet. Need to differentiate a bit here between 'consumer' and 'pro' models.

You don't want to tick off your install base of <6 Month old iMacs by whiplashing to 2.5, but you also want to migrate those folks on the 800Mhz iMacs that bought oh, two years ago or so (me)

 

[numediaman]

MacOSRumors seems to think that the G5 updates won't occur until NAB in April. I find it hard to believe Apple would use a rev. b update as their big announcement for NAB (unless they announced a 3.0GHz machine, which I doubt). I would think they would want something on the software side, or some new hardware (not an update).

Having said that, it is always hard not to argue for updates being further out -- after all, how do we really know for sure?

I'd be terribly disappointed if this soap opera gets extended into April. But we now are only two Tuesdays away from the second quarter.

 

[wdlove]

MacOSRumors seems to think that the G5 updates won't occur until NAB in April. I find it hard to believe Apple would use a rev. b update as their big announcement for NAB (unless they announced a 3.0GHz machine, which I doubt). I would think they would want something on the software side, or some new hardware (not an update).

Having said that, it is always hard not to argue for updates being further out -- after all, how do we really know for sure?

I'd be terribly disappointed if this soap opera gets extended into April. But we now are only two Tuesdays away from the second quarter.

I can't see Apple making any announcement at NAB, since there won't be a Stevenote. If nothing happens in the next two weeks, then it would seem more likely for a Stevenote presentation at WWDC.

 

[dex22]

1.8GHz - 900 MHz HT Bus
2.0GHz - 1.0 GHz HT Bus
2.2GHz - 1.1 GHz HT Bus
2.4GHz - 1.2 GHz HT Bus
2.6GHz - 1.3 GHz HT Bus

'only' 200 MHz? Come one people calm down and think a bit. This is exciting news for us. When Intel revs a clock speed they DO NOT rev their memory bus.
*snip*
And no, i'm not divulging proprietary information on the 970, those are my personal speculation on how the HT bus works on the 970, I may be off base but....

You are off base. The HT bus is not the memory buss. The HT bus is the interconnect between the processor and the system controller. The memory bus is between the system controller and the memory, and its speed is independent of the HT speed.

Increasing the HT speed doesn't reduce latency by any meaningful amount. Where it makes a difference is that more data can move between memory, the processors and/or the video card or devices attached to the PCI-X and IO controllers before the HT connections become saturated. While not greatly increasing the speed (it's idle a lot anyway) it raises the point at which saturation occurs. The memory buss on rev.A G5's is 400MHz. The memory buss will always saturate before the HT buss does even in slower systems, unless the processor is signalling data to more than one device (eg memory and video and PCI)

http://www.apple.com/powermac/architecture.html

 

[PRØBE]

Less is more?

According to their information, the new machines will come in at the following specs:

Dual 1.8GHz G5, 256MB DDR400, 80GB HD, GeForce 5200 Ultra
Dual 2.2GHz G5, 512MB DDR400, 160GB HD, Radeon 9600
Dual 2.4GHz G5, 512MB DDR400, 160GB HD, Radeon 9600

MacPlus.org does not frequently publish rumors, but has published an accurate release date in the past.[/QUOTE]


Just of interest, what happened to the whole:

"Appleinsider posted a small update today which claims that second generation PowerMac G5s would make an appearance by March 2004. The new machines are reported to have advanced features including 533 DDR II RAM support and up to 1.5GHz bus as well as the incorporation of 90nm G5s and "Power Tune" technology."

thing? (Posted 19th November 03)

 

[paulsecic]

How long has FileMaker 7 been standing there? Just a couple of days.

I don't understand why Apple would suddenly focus the attention on a 6 month old Mac.

IMHO Apple is upgrading quickly..... 23rd, not the 30th.

To reduce inventory & make room for newer G5s.

 

[iriejedi]

Why I support the 23rd prediction

The 23rd is a great date!

Why? Because it means 4 days of saving money on superly overly priced ram but even more so, it means 4 days of incentive to order ASAP for those that are on the fence. (Ram offer ending the 27th).

These 4 days of initial volume of orders can be used as a good indicator for overall production needs in order to avoid huge back order mess.

The return of an all dual line up. Interesting.

 

[wibbly_pig]

In the Apple UK store, the discount RAM offer runs to May 8th (although the small print limits applicability to the current G5 range)....so I'm sure that at least in the UK (and thus perhaps in the US too) there must be a potential for upgrades within the period of the current RAM promotion (i.e. could still be 23rd as opposed to 30th).

Haven't looked at the terms of the US promotion so don't know if it has similar limitations on which G5 models...

 

[invaLPsion]

The 23rd is a great date!

Why? Because it means 4 days of saving money on superly overly priced ram but even more so, it means 4 days of incentive to order ASAP for those that are on the fence. (Ram offer ending the 27th).

These 4 days of initial volume of orders can be used as a good indicator for overall production needs in order to avoid huge back order mess.

Great Idea.

Apple execs should come to Macrumors and look at all the ideas we at MacRumors come up with. Some of them are great marketing ideas!