kaneda said:
the entry level model is supposed to be a dual 1.8, not a single 2GHz. I don't know about you but I would rather have a dual 1.8 then a single 2.0.
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PowerMac G5 Updates - March 23rd?
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the entry level model is supposed to be a dual 1.8, not a single 2GHz. I don't know about you but I would rather have a dual 1.8 then a single 2.0.
blue&whiteman said:
I'd prefer a low end of 2.4 or 2.5 dual but then again all the recent rumors are saying all duals starting with 1.8 to 2.4. Too bad it would be nice to come out with the high end 3.0 early. All we can do is wait and see. No matter what i will be buying the new rev B when announced. I think i'll go to the Apple Store in Aventura to see if they have any in stock when it actually does, although i would be getting a BTO if they don't come standard with Airport Extreme or Bluetooth.
blue&whiteman said:
Absolutely! A dual 1.8 would be much more useful than a single 2.0 for most things. Even though I really want this G5 for gaming, where the second processor is not really used, everything else in OSX runs so well on duals!
I would be happy with either a single 2.0+ or a dual 1.8+, but I prefer duals.
paulsecic said:
I also use the old iMac style keyboard on my machines regardless of what they come with. I've been using these since '99, simply because I prefer it's smaller size and key layout. I keep a spare always. Currently I need to find another one on ebay. I'm on my last spare after spilling cafe-con-leche in one not long ago.
I find the graphite color even matches the G4 and G5 line better. Unless Apple introduces a new keyboard- one that's really nice. I'm sticking with my compact, graphite, iMac style keyboards.
for gaming i have decided Mac isnt the way, when you look at the selection on the PC side, the speed of the PCs, the way Apple overprices all the hardware, and then the waiting for that Great game to make it to Mac. whats the point? if you really enjoy gaming a Alienware will smoke the dual 1.8 G5 in every Game. Look at some UT2003 benches they are almost 300 FPS on alienware on the mac side(G5 dual) its like 70. you can find 10 times the amount of games and they cost less on the PC side. When it comes to Gaming Macs just suck. there is no if or buts. Blame APPLE blame steve Jobs. seems they dont want you to Game and they dont want you to watch any TV on your computer. notice any ATI all in wonders for MAC? nope. Im just about to Jump ship. one good thing is I can get itunes for windows.....ooops!neonart said:
kaneda said:
I think it should be dual, as there might be a strong push to all dual line to make them really distinct from any new G5 iMacs... Would be cheaper to just produce parts for dual boxes rather than a seperate config for 1.6 with only 4 slot ram...?
Dont Hurt Me said:
I understand what you mean, but I don't care for Windows and will not switch so I can have more games. I already tried once building a PC for games, only to sell it at a loss because I enjoyed gaming on my Mac much more. And it had nothing to do with performance.
The PC just sat around and I would turn it on when I was going to play, then I would go back and do everything else on my Mac. Now I enjoy just switching from Mail and Safari to a good Halo game or a Multiplayer game on Gameranger without turning on the PC and dealing with Windows.
I'm a consider myself a gamer because I enjoy gaming a lot. Enough to buy a G5 for it. But I'm a Mac user first and foremost. And I don't see switching- or even using both platforms if I can have fun with my Mac.
And the differences between the G5 and PC's in UT2003 are not so bad. Look here:
http://www.barefeats.com/p4game.html
274 or 214 FPS... not really that important if your eyes can't perceive it.
But I won't criticize you if you want to use a PC to get all the latest games and latest hardware. It's a very cool thing for big time gaming. Everybody is entitled to their opinion and choice.
Dont Hurt Me said:
Alienware is just as overpriced as a mac. THe thing you seem to be missing is that apple's foundation is in the professional market. People don't buy a mac to play games. they get one for the professional standard and ease of use which enhances productivity. If you're so bent on games don't hurt me, that's fine, but griping about not having games for the mac platform isnt solving your problem. Go build yer own PC and save yourself loads of money, and our time listening to your redudant complaints about lack of games on the mac.
so what you are saying is Apple has simply lost the consumer market, but i think you are right. every consumer product Apple makes is getting its ass handed to it by the otherside. Imac,Emac,ibook. even Apples so called Pro models can be matched by PC consumer models costing much less. Just admit it the Hardware Mac is selling and has sold for years is behind. But the corporate gang at Apple have fat wallets. enough said ill wait to see what they do then ill order a Alienware Aurora. I give Apple 2 months and then they loose yet another long time customer.JohnnyTwoToes said:
Dont Hurt Me said:
What exactly would apple need to do for you to stay?
What specs are you needing to stay with Mac?
Dont Hurt Me said:
Yer missing half the point though. One of your consistent gripes has been the "premium" apple puts on their products. The extra money. You're still catoring to that with an alienware system. yer still paying extra money for an alienware system. Macs and PCs are like apple's and oranges. You choose according to taste. You can get yourself one hell of a PC if you build one yourself, and then you also dont pay into a companies "overpricing." If you're serious about a PC man I'll send you places to order parts. If warranty is what you're concerned about most companies that sell the individual parts offer a lifetime warranty on them, which is better than any 3 year plan apple, dell, or alienware SELLS you on top of the system price.
JohnnyTwoToes said:
I agree wholeheartedly with JohnnyTwoToes. You ARE missing the whole point. Apple truly has a revolutionary product, and has always been a frontrunner. Get a clue. You obviously don't know that Bill Gates stole the concept behind a GUI from Steve Jobs. I have to pay a premium for an Apple product, so be it; at least it works. Windoze has never worked and will never work well. In the year and a half I've had my iBook, I've only had a kernal panic twice. After giving the Windoze world a try for three years, I decided, for sanity's sake to return to the Macintosh.
Get a Mac. It just does it.
I think the GUI was actually concepted by XEROX originally, and in one of the biggest blunders ever, the president of hte company gave it to the original starters of apple (i believe it was apple, someone please correct me, or make this more accurate).Borg3of5 said:
A consumer Mac where i can order the fastest single cpu and video card to go with it, not a bunch of other stuff that jacks up the price that i dont want or need. They love to force you into the next tier. they do it with cpu's just look at pro models pushing either 2 cpu's or a very low clocking single or look at the consumer model pushing a monitor on you and then a old cpu and poor video option. they done this crap for years. Give the consumer the option to build the machine that fits the consumer, not the option to fit their greedy wallets. Apples model is falling apart again,they broke it for a while with Imac Crt but then went right back into it. I think its Jobs but it may the other Ceo's. Ceo's come and go and take their stuffed wallets with them. what happens to the company afterwards they could care a less. Greedy bastards. This will be Apples downfall. Look at the market and its been heading towards ground zero. come on guys Apple sold 2 out of 100 new machines. do they have to hit 0 before taking notice? its past time to wake up and the stock is over valued.aswitcher said:
Dont Hurt Me said:
You really need to get off these forums. All your posts have recently been about how macs suck so much. Just go buy yourself a new 3400+ or 3.4 P4 and game yourself into a trance.
Dont Hurt Me said:
Also, on the UT benches you speak of, I feel it necessary to add that 2003 is optimized for the Pentium 4 and the G4, not the G5. In addition, the G4 optimization is known to degrade G5 performance.
Dont Hurt Me said:
Gaming doesn't suck because of Apple. It sucks because the gaming companies will not release their product for mac.
Dont Hurt Me said:
Again, not because of Apple. Why don't you complain about ATi?
Dont Hurt Me said:
PLEASE, JUMP SHIP. (And save us from your constant complaining)
if you want to play games . get your damn pc already .
and then you can hijack every PCRumors thread instead.
and then you can hijack every PCRumors thread instead.
Duff-Man says....Not to straddle the fence here....but I do understand some of dont hurt me's concerns...but on the other hand, it really is getting rather redundant....the same old arguments you see on every message board...so I would have to say...yes, please go buy your Alienware and stop complaining...you'll be happy and so will we. It does not mean that I (we) are blind followers of everything Apple does or that we think that Apple couldn't do better....it just means we are tired of your particular whining.......oh yeah!
invaLPsion said:
OK, I'm an Apple fan. >$7K in purchases over the past 18 months. Not the most anyone's ever spent, obviously, but enough to show that I like the product. My last non-Mac PC purchase was in 1996 - and that was a BeBox.
I should say, though, that I'm an Apple fan primarily because of the OS, which I just can't get enough of. I love it. Sliced bread has nothing on this OS, and it just keeps getting better. Yes, it's not perfect, but I cannot see anything even remotely as good, as a whole, anywhere, all things considered.
I like games. Halo and WarCraftIII, specifically.
But... as much as I hate to admit it, Dont Hurt Me has a point. Apple's hardware is often woefully bad for the price. My brother's $600 HP keeps up with my dual-2 on WCIII and Halo. The G5 does do better, but not by much, when gaming. Generally, though, yes, the G5 kicks the butt of the HP. But the HP kicks the butt of my iMac and of my (other) brother's new iMac, at a substantially lower cost.
Before I get flamed, note please that I buy Macs anyway (and exclusively) and that I know that the software is part of the value. Believe me, I know that. But I think that the consumer line could be beefier or at least cheaper if Apple wants to get bigger market share.
What irks me most, though, is the laptop line (and maybe we'll see some fixes soon). My work PC laptop has a 1900x1200 screen, and it's over a year old. Why do Apple screen resolutions suck so much? Why doesn't the 17" PB have a 7200 RPM drive? Why not better video cards? These things aren't rocket science, and people are installing better drives in their PBs and seeing huge gains (and voiding warranties). Why doesn't Apple do something (and, again, they might be doing something soon)?
I know we all say how Apple's a hardware company, and the software supports it at (likely) a loss for Apple by itself. But, frankly, I'd love to see Apple stop standing behind it's "Think Different" campaign and actually try to make the hardware dominant again. The G5 is a player, sure. But, really, none of the other products are, from a hardware point of view.
I don't fault Apple for lack of games - it isn't really their fault, unless you blame them for their low market share, which is, of course, why there aren't as many games.
I do blame Apple for not keeping up technically as far as many aspects of their hardware is concerned. The laptops have crappy drives and low-res screens. The iMacs are beautiful but non-expandable and relatively slow. The eMacs are often artificially crippled so as not to compete with the iMacs.
Look, I love Apple. I love the G5 I have. But it isn't treason to comment that they aren't staying on top of a lot of hardware technology.
And, before there are a hundred Firewire 800/slot-loading-DVD/G5/whatever-other-fantastic-Apple-technology replies, I already know that stuff. I just want a little more. I want my PC dweeb co-workers to drool when I buy my next PowerBook. I want to kick my HP-loving brother's a** with my next iMac. And I know that Apple can make it happen.
Or... you could just read Duff-Man's reply (above), which says all I said while writing my manifesto with about 10% of the words.
A CEO is a CHIEF Executive Officer. You know that Chief implies the peak, pinnacle, singular most executive Officer. There aren't multiple CEOs at Apple, because they wouldn't be Chief Exectutive Officers would they? They would simply be EOs. Thanks for your insight into who's getting rich on our Apple purchases though.Dont Hurt Me said:
There are reasons why Apple doesn't allow you to simply custom build the exact consumer iMac you want and most of them are due to Apple's consumer philosophy.
Apple's over-riding consumer philosophy, right or wrong, is that Consumers just want a tool that does what they want. Furthermore, consumers want a cool tool.. not a biege box, and a tool that is easy to use.
To this end:
- Consumer Macs are integrated products that are easy to setup and use
Consumer Macs stress physical (useable) design and aesthetics over expandablility or cutting edge features.
A Consumer Mac's design limits their ability to handle cutting edge technologies... you simply CAN NOT stick an 85 Watt CPU and a Radeon 9800XT into an iMac enclosure. It's not physically (thermally) possible.
Consumer Mac lines are populated with simple, pre-configured machines (for the most part) in order to prevent consumer confusion.
And,.. as a result of the above considerations, Apple's designs don't allow for excessive modularity. As a result, they are slow to update components like video chipsets as this requires a reworking of the overall design instead of the simple replacement of one module.
Personally, I don't think we'll ever see an Apple consumer machine with cutting edge technology. It may compare very favorably to a Lower end PC when they move to the G5 (which I think they'll do very soon), but it won't be cutting edge compared to the Pro models. There are many reasons for this. Of course they don't want to eat into Pro sales, but there are also thermal constraints due to the form factors that Apple creates for their consumer machines. There is also the need to keep costs down on a machine that can't be produced as cheap as a crap-ass low end pc.
Your arguments are hollow though. You can't complain on the inferior quality of the consumer Mac line while trumpeting the virtues of vendors like Alienware. Alienware certainly isn't competing with Apple for those $1000 eMac sales. They are selling $2000-$3500 monitorless systems (that is, more with monitor). Alienware is competing, pretty much at the same price points) with Apple's G5 towers. Unfortunately, though thier towers ARE more computationally powerful than Alienware machines, they are still held back by unoptimised, or poorly optimised software.
Just to clarify my last statement, don't doubt for on second that a dual 2GHz PPC 970 isn't more computationally powerful than P4EE or even a AthlonFX. The 970 has a higher IPC and with dual 2GHz cpus, it's capable of more calculations in a given time than any single cpu Alienware system. The reason an Alienware system is superor in gaming has a lot more to do with the optimization of the Windows code [directx] for exisiting x86 processors, the optimization of games for existing x86 processors, and the quality of the video drivers for a given video chipset. For gaming, Apple is at a big disadvantage when it comes to video drivers. When it comes to Windows drivers, ATI and Nvidia are in a constant battle to wring every bit of performance out of their drivers. With the Mac, Apple ships Nvidia products or ATI chips based on economic factors as much as performance. There are no competitive forces driving their video driver development... they won't loose CPU sales if Nvidia writes better Mac 5900fx driver than Apple's Radeon 9800 driver. On the PC, if Nvidia writes a crap PC driver, they certainly will loose sales to ATI.
well i hear you but market is being lossed every qtr. when you drop to 1.7% of new sales you got problems. I dont care about philosophy or anything else. If I a long time user like me am thinking of jumping ship then there are plenty more who have allready done this or have never seen a Apple product in the first place. and by the way they have the president of this and the president of that and chief of balony and chief of salomi. spin all you want but the numbers show the truth. they are getting less and less and less of the market every qtr. why do you think they had to open their own stores?
competition is good for the market but Apple is in their own little monopoly. look at the products for mac vs PC no comparison,look at those video cards again no comparison. sooner or later this market is going to hit these guys very hard if they dont start making machines for the consumer. please explain to me how 1.7% of new sales is good for Apple? please explain to me how making machines not to fit the consumer is good for apple? please explain how having piss pot poor game options and no Tv capabilities is good for Apple. Apple does what Apple wants not what the Market is willing to buy and hence have lost the market. They need to get back to basics and that is selling to the consumer not just making the machine for the pro users and hope a few consumers come along for the ride. Its not working.
competition is good for the market but Apple is in their own little monopoly. look at the products for mac vs PC no comparison,look at those video cards again no comparison. sooner or later this market is going to hit these guys very hard if they dont start making machines for the consumer. please explain to me how 1.7% of new sales is good for Apple? please explain to me how making machines not to fit the consumer is good for apple? please explain how having piss pot poor game options and no Tv capabilities is good for Apple. Apple does what Apple wants not what the Market is willing to buy and hence have lost the market. They need to get back to basics and that is selling to the consumer not just making the machine for the pro users and hope a few consumers come along for the ride. Its not working.
Several threads have discussed this to date. My thinking is that a single G5 processor smaller form factor G5PM at a decent price point would fit the gap (still more expensive than pcs but not as pricey or as physically big as the current PMs). Put a 2Ghz (or whatever is the best chip at the time) into it. Since I have read several times dual processors don't help game, then a single is good for that market. Four slots for ram, comes with 1/2 gig or a gig. Best 64 meg card, with option for 128. Allow for 1 or 2 PCI slots. Up to 250gig harddisk. Good dvd burner. usb2, fw, ports front and back. bluetooh standard. wifi option. Bundle OEM Microsoft office for cheaper access and easier for switchers. Optional speakers, but 5.1. Option for cheap TV tuner card?
I don't know what they coudl put that on the market at but it would fill a niche for gamers, switchers, proconsumers, and SOHO computing... If it came in around a 1.6 price that would be pretty good I would think
So we are back to a cube design with fans, for a footprint half the size of the current design.
I don't know what they coudl put that on the market at but it would fill a niche for gamers, switchers, proconsumers, and SOHO computing... If it came in around a 1.6 price that would be pretty good I would think
So we are back to a cube design with fans, for a footprint half the size of the current design.
Dont Hurt Me said:
Don't you get tired of posting essentially the same rant (multiple times) every single day?
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